Knicks current cap situation

[robillionaire]

There's no centers left on the free agent market that are decent, whoever we get will be from a trade. I don't see Wagner leaving his brother either, and he's a horrible rim protector anyway, which is a war crime in Thibstopia.

Wagner
Tillman
Metu
Saric


Those are the guys that are left.

I'd add Biyombo, Theis, Yurtseven, Zeller, Thomas Bryant and Richaun Holmes.

No starters but decent backup Cs.

None of these guys can start in a pinch, and Thibs doesn't trust Precious to start at C either. Since he's been here he's had a clear M.O. of having two centers both of them being rim protectors that are 7 footers, and both of them being able to start when need be.

Thibs has started Jericho sims in multiple games. His standards aren’t high.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I'd add Biyombo, Theis, Yurtseven, Zeller, Thomas Bryant and Richaun Holmes.

No starters but decent backup Cs.

None of these guys can start in a pinch, and Thibs doesn't trust Precious to start at C either. Since he's been here he's had a clear M.O. of having two centers both of them being rim protectors that are 7 footers, and both of them being able to start when need be.

Thibs has started Jericho sims in multiple games. His standards aren’t high.

That was right after Mitch got hurt and he tried to maintain the whole Ihart thing off the bench, that was the stretch where we eventually gave up 144 to the Clippers and then the Sims starting thing ended until Ihart started missing games here and there. He was -30 as a starter

[robillionaire]

None of these guys can start in a pinch, and Thibs doesn't trust Precious to start at C either. Since he's been here he's had a clear M.O. of having two centers both of them being rim protectors that are 7 footers, and both of them being able to start when need be.

Thibs has started Jericho sims in multiple games. His standards aren’t high.

That was right after Mitch got hurt and he tried to maintain the whole Ihart thing off the bench, that was the stretch where we eventually gave up 144 to the Clippers and then the Sims starting thing ended until Ihart started missing games here and there. He was -30 as a starter

Well that’s what I’m saying if he’ll start that bum he’d start anybody

Including precious

Not saying I’d want to see that but if they just rolled into the season starting Mitch with those guys as backups ready to start I wouldn’t even be shocked. We didn’t even have a backup PF on the roster last year with Randle coming off surgery. The team does weird things sometimes

[JayTWill]

This spreadsheet is correct.

It has counted the unlikely bonus for Randle and Donte (value $2129 - Randle 1378 e Donte 750). He only forgot to include it in the spreadsheet.

If you some the total current payroll, the apron space, and the unlikely bonus (2129), it will totalize the respective apron number.

But we may move the red shirts and we need to exclude the 24 pick value and maybe the 25 pick if it is a stash.

Ok. This is what we have now with minor changes. We dumped Jefferies 2.5mil and we don't have the 24th pick @2.8mil. That saves 5.3 from the 174.8 which leaves us at $169.5mil total payroll. We are now under the tax with 12 players and around 9mil under the first apron.

What does all of that mean? I think I'm getting a grasp on things here....and I'm still confused!!

We have to dump Jeffries and 24pick.

We may dump Diakite as well. I cant see us keeping him. He is a living salary filler. We may grab a nice vet for his money.

Pacome can stay in Europe or not. He can be stashed overseas.

From what I understand, we have to keep 14 regular contract players on payroll (the normal and max is 15).

We can grab a rookie (outside first round) for $1.157 or a vet (any experience) for a $2087 cap hit (he can make more money but the cap hit is a 2-year vet player).

We can use a TMLE up to 5168.

The limit is $178.132. (first apron)

If we fix the MIkal trade, we can push the limit to $188.931 (second apron)

Looking back that Detroit trade was a failure in so many different ways. Bogey's contract provided no extra value and Fournier's $19M + Grimes $4.3 would have matched Mikal's contract removing the cap at the first apron. Grimes addition to the Mikal trade may have also saved us a first + the seconds that were sent in the Detroit trade but maybe they were not looking that far ahead or didn't think this Net's trade was possible.

[Richard4444]

Ok. This is what we have now with minor changes. We dumped Jefferies 2.5mil and we don't have the 24th pick @2.8mil. That saves 5.3 from the 174.8 which leaves us at $169.5mil total payroll. We are now under the tax with 12 players and around 9mil under the first apron.

What does all of that mean? I think I'm getting a grasp on things here....and I'm still confused!!

We have to dump Jeffries and 24pick.

We may dump Diakite as well. I cant see us keeping him. He is a living salary filler. We may grab a nice vet for his money.

Pacome can stay in Europe or not. He can be stashed overseas.

From what I understand, we have to keep 14 regular contract players on payroll (the normal and max is 15).

We can grab a rookie (outside first round) for $1.157 or a vet (any experience) for a $2087 cap hit (he can make more money but the cap hit is a 2-year vet player).

We can use a TMLE up to 5168.

The limit is $178.132. (first apron)

If we fix the MIkal trade, we can push the limit to $188.931 (second apron)

Yeah I corrected that and added all three rookies to get us to 13 players and 173mil in salary but, left Diakite in because we didn't cut him yet. So technically 14 players. Or we add the vet mini cap hold. 175mil total salary plus tax. Leaving us hard capped with the 5 mil MLE and vet mini as the only two moves we can make without a trade adjustment. Correct?

How does the Obi TPE work in all of this?

If we use Obi TPE, we get hard capped at the first apron.

[Jalen Bluntson]

We have to dump Jeffries and 24pick.

We may dump Diakite as well. I cant see us keeping him. He is a living salary filler. We may grab a nice vet for his money.

Pacome can stay in Europe or not. He can be stashed overseas.

From what I understand, we have to keep 14 regular contract players on payroll (the normal and max is 15).

We can grab a rookie (outside first round) for $1.157 or a vet (any experience) for a $2087 cap hit (he can make more money but the cap hit is a 2-year vet player).

We can use a TMLE up to 5168.

The limit is $178.132. (first apron)

If we fix the MIkal trade, we can push the limit to $188.931 (second apron)

Yeah I corrected that and added all three rookies to get us to 13 players and 173mil in salary but, left Diakite in because we didn't cut him yet. So technically 14 players. Or we add the vet mini cap hold. 175mil total salary plus tax. Leaving us hard capped with the 5 mil MLE and vet mini as the only two moves we can make without a trade adjustment. Correct?

How does the Obi TPE work in all of this?

If we use Obi TPE, we get hard capped at the first apron.

So it's basically a wasted asset. We would be better served pushing the Mikal trade salary up and that opens another 10mil or so plus we still have the MLE?

[Moose]

Ok. This is what we have now with minor changes. We dumped Jefferies 2.5mil and we don't have the 24th pick @2.8mil. That saves 5.3 from the 174.8 which leaves us at $169.5mil total payroll. We are now under the tax with 12 players and around 9mil under the first apron.

What does all of that mean? I think I'm getting a grasp on things here....and I'm still confused!!

We have to dump Jeffries and 24pick.

We may dump Diakite as well. I cant see us keeping him. He is a living salary filler. We may grab a nice vet for his money.

Pacome can stay in Europe or not. He can be stashed overseas.

From what I understand, we have to keep 14 regular contract players on payroll (the normal and max is 15).

We can grab a rookie (outside first round) for $1.157 or a vet (any experience) for a $2087 cap hit (he can make more money but the cap hit is a 2-year vet player).

We can use a TMLE up to 5168.

The limit is $178.132. (first apron)

If we fix the MIkal trade, we can push the limit to $188.931 (second apron)

Looking back that Detroit trade was a failure in so many different ways. Bogey's contract provided no extra value and Fournier's $19M + Grimes $4.3 would have matched Mikal's contract removing the cap at the first apron. Grimes addition to the Mikal trade may have also saved us a first + the seconds that were sent in the Detroit trade but maybe they were not looking that far ahead or didn't think this Net's trade was possible.

Fournier was going to be a free agent. Bogey has an option that the Knicks picked up and then traded him.

That's one of the reasons why they made that trade.

[Luv those Knicks]

Fournier was going to be a free agent. Bogey has an option that the Knicks picked up and then traded him.

That's one of the reasons why they made that trade.

That was a big part of it, but I think they were disappointed in Grimes and believed the Bogey & Burkes shooting would help us. (It didn't), but that was the belief.

But also, yes, Bogey was a much better tradable asset, so what you said as well.

Given that it got us Bridges, I think that trade was a success, even if it didn't give us much last year.

[JayTWill]

We have to dump Jeffries and 24pick.

We may dump Diakite as well. I cant see us keeping him. He is a living salary filler. We may grab a nice vet for his money.

Pacome can stay in Europe or not. He can be stashed overseas.

From what I understand, we have to keep 14 regular contract players on payroll (the normal and max is 15).

We can grab a rookie (outside first round) for $1.157 or a vet (any experience) for a $2087 cap hit (he can make more money but the cap hit is a 2-year vet player).

We can use a TMLE up to 5168.

The limit is $178.132. (first apron)

If we fix the MIkal trade, we can push the limit to $188.931 (second apron)

Looking back that Detroit trade was a failure in so many different ways. Bogey's contract provided no extra value and Fournier's $19M + Grimes $4.3 would have matched Mikal's contract removing the cap at the first apron. Grimes addition to the Mikal trade may have also saved us a first + the seconds that were sent in the Detroit trade but maybe they were not looking that far ahead or didn't think this Net's trade was possible.

Fournier was going to be a free agent. Bogey has an option that the Knicks picked up and then traded him.

That's one of the reasons why they made that trade.

Fournier's contract had a team option also for this next season. I don't think Bogey's contract added any extra value in comparison to Fournier's and it definitely wouldn't have been more valuable than Fournier + 2 second round picks + a young asset no matter how poorly Grimes played for 1 year.

[Richard4444]

Looking back that Detroit trade was a failure in so many different ways. Bogey's contract provided no extra value and Fournier's $19M + Grimes $4.3 would have matched Mikal's contract removing the cap at the first apron. Grimes addition to the Mikal trade may have also saved us a first + the seconds that were sent in the Detroit trade but maybe they were not looking that far ahead or didn't think this Net's trade was possible.

Fournier was going to be a free agent. Bogey has an option that the Knicks picked up and then traded him.

That's one of the reasons why they made that trade.

Fournier's contract had a team option also for this next season. I don't think Bogey's contract added any extra value in comparison to Fournier's and it definitely wouldn't have been more valuable than Fournier + 2 second round picks + a young asset no matter how poorly Grimes played for 1 year.

We could use Bojan as a backup PF. Evan was redundant.

We did not know when the trade would happen. We got a more useful walking salary filler while we were waiting for the right trade.

Moreover, despite getting paid a lot, Evan was openly complaining about the situation, which is not good for morale.

[Moose]

Looking back that Detroit trade was a failure in so many different ways. Bogey's contract provided no extra value and Fournier's $19M + Grimes $4.3 would have matched Mikal's contract removing the cap at the first apron. Grimes addition to the Mikal trade may have also saved us a first + the seconds that were sent in the Detroit trade but maybe they were not looking that far ahead or didn't think this Net's trade was possible.

Fournier was going to be a free agent. Bogey has an option that the Knicks picked up and then traded him.

That's one of the reasons why they made that trade.

Fournier's contract had a team option also for this next season. I don't think Bogey's contract added any extra value in comparison to Fournier's and it definitely wouldn't have been more valuable than Fournier + 2 second round picks + a young asset no matter how poorly Grimes played for 1 year.

You're right. I'm mistaken.

And I agree that Bogey likely had minimal trade value and certainly not much to the Nets.

[JayTWill]

Fournier was going to be a free agent. Bogey has an option that the Knicks picked up and then traded him.

That's one of the reasons why they made that trade.

Fournier's contract had a team option also for this next season. I don't think Bogey's contract added any extra value in comparison to Fournier's and it definitely wouldn't have been more valuable than Fournier + 2 second round picks + a young asset no matter how poorly Grimes played for 1 year.

We could use Bojan as a backup PF. Evan was redundant.

We did not know when the trade would happen. We got a more useful walking salary filler while we were waiting for the right trade.

Moreover, despite getting paid a lot, Evan was openly complaining about the situation, which is not good for morale.

Yeah, I can understand their thought process in some ways but I just never agreed with it. It seemed like they were attempting to compete last year despite the unlikelihood of a physical player like Randle remaining healthy with a compromised shoulder and they wanted to have a contract to use in a trade this offseason. Moving Fournier when he was unhappy being glued to the bench for the majority of his contract makes sense but I never understood the idea of Bogey adding more value as a 4.

They are the same height. Bogey is a bit heavier but doesn't defend or rebound well at any position. He has a better post game than Fournier but defensively they are both terrible. Fournier could have played as a poor defensive, poor rebounding small ball 4 too.

[WargamesX]

Fournier's contract had a team option also for this next season. I don't think Bogey's contract added any extra value in comparison to Fournier's and it definitely wouldn't have been more valuable than Fournier + 2 second round picks + a young asset no matter how poorly Grimes played for 1 year.

We could use Bojan as a backup PF. Evan was redundant.

We did not know when the trade would happen. We got a more useful walking salary filler while we were waiting for the right trade.

Moreover, despite getting paid a lot, Evan was openly complaining about the situation, which is not good for morale.

Yeah, I can understand their thought process in some ways but I just never agreed with it. It seemed like they were attempting to compete last year despite the unlikelihood of a physical player like Randle remaining healthy with a compromised shoulder and they wanted to have a contract to use in a trade this offseason. Moving Fournier when he was unhappy being glued to the bench for the majority of his contract makes sense but I never understood the idea of Bogey adding more value as a 4.

They are the same height. Bogey is a bit heavier but doesn't defend or rebound well at any position. He has a better post game than Fournier but defensively they are both terrible. Fournier could have played as a poor defensive, poor rebounding small ball 4 too.

I thought the idea was Bojan had value and fournier didn't and healthy maybe we could have done that trade while sending one less draft pick. The issue is he was not healthy so when the time came he was just a matching salary.

[Jalen Bluntson]

We could use Bojan as a backup PF. Evan was redundant.

We did not know when the trade would happen. We got a more useful walking salary filler while we were waiting for the right trade.

Moreover, despite getting paid a lot, Evan was openly complaining about the situation, which is not good for morale.

Yeah, I can understand their thought process in some ways but I just never agreed with it. It seemed like they were attempting to compete last year despite the unlikelihood of a physical player like Randle remaining healthy with a compromised shoulder and they wanted to have a contract to use in a trade this offseason. Moving Fournier when he was unhappy being glued to the bench for the majority of his contract makes sense but I never understood the idea of Bogey adding more value as a 4.

They are the same height. Bogey is a bit heavier but doesn't defend or rebound well at any position. He has a better post game than Fournier but defensively they are both terrible. Fournier could have played as a poor defensive, poor rebounding small ball 4 too.

I thought the idea was Bojan had value and fournier didn't and healthy maybe we could have done that trade while sending one less draft pick. The issue is he was not healthy so when the time came he was just a matching salary.

The thought process was that we couldn't keep Evan on the bench for another year just because we needed his salary in a trade. He was beginning to make noise. When he was given opportunities to play he couldn't guard a snail or hit a shot if his life depended on it. In the meantime Bogs helped us win games in the regular season and the playoffs. We swapped expirings and we landed Mikal. What is the actual problem here?

[WargamesX]

Yeah, I can understand their thought process in some ways but I just never agreed with it. It seemed like they were attempting to compete last year despite the unlikelihood of a physical player like Randle remaining healthy with a compromised shoulder and they wanted to have a contract to use in a trade this offseason. Moving Fournier when he was unhappy being glued to the bench for the majority of his contract makes sense but I never understood the idea of Bogey adding more value as a 4.

They are the same height. Bogey is a bit heavier but doesn't defend or rebound well at any position. He has a better post game than Fournier but defensively they are both terrible. Fournier could have played as a poor defensive, poor rebounding small ball 4 too.

I thought the idea was Bojan had value and fournier didn't and healthy maybe we could have done that trade while sending one less draft pick. The issue is he was not healthy so when the time came he was just a matching salary.

The thought process was that we couldn't keep Evan on the bench for another year just because we needed his salary in a trade. He was beginning to make noise. When he was given opportunities to play he couldn't guard a snail or hit a shot if his life depended on it. In the meantime Bogs helped us win games in the regular season and the playoffs. We swapped expirings and we landed Mikal. What is the actual problem here?

Wait who has a problem?

[Jalen Bluntson]

I thought the idea was Bojan had value and fournier didn't and healthy maybe we could have done that trade while sending one less draft pick. The issue is he was not healthy so when the time came he was just a matching salary.

The thought process was that we couldn't keep Evan on the bench for another year just because we needed his salary in a trade. He was beginning to make noise. When he was given opportunities to play he couldn't guard a snail or hit a shot if his life depended on it. In the meantime Bogs helped us win games in the regular season and the playoffs. We swapped expirings and we landed Mikal. What is the actual problem here?

Wait who has a problem?

Not that it's that serious but...he doesn't like the move. It wasn't my favorite move either but, Bogs was actually useful compared to Evan and we landed Mikal with him. Great move in the end.

[WargamesX]

The thought process was that we couldn't keep Evan on the bench for another year just because we needed his salary in a trade. He was beginning to make noise. When he was given opportunities to play he couldn't guard a snail or hit a shot if his life depended on it. In the meantime Bogs helped us win games in the regular season and the playoffs. We swapped expirings and we landed Mikal. What is the actual problem here?

Wait who has a problem?

Not that it's that serious but...he doesn't like the move. It wasn't my favorite move either but, Bogs was actually useful compared to Evan and we landed Mikal with him. Great move in the end.

I feel the same way and I honestly thought they were going to have to waive him this summer for a non taxpayer MLE because his contract was going to drag them to the second apron.

[JayTWill]

The thought process was that we couldn't keep Evan on the bench for another year just because we needed his salary in a trade. He was beginning to make noise. When he was given opportunities to play he couldn't guard a snail or hit a shot if his life depended on it. In the meantime Bogs helped us win games in the regular season and the playoffs. We swapped expirings and we landed Mikal. What is the actual problem here?

Wait who has a problem?

Not that it's that serious but...he doesn't like the move. It wasn't my favorite move either but, Bogs was actually useful compared to Evan and we landed Mikal with him. Great move in the end.

I don't want to continue to be the cause of this thread being derailed but the Detroit trade failed to improve the team. It failed to improve the bench. It failed to reduce the minute load on guys like Hart. It failed to add value to the Mikal trade other than salary and it actually reduced the salary available to trade possibly putting a cap on the team at the first apron.

Do you believe that Bogey provided more value in a trade to a rebuilding team than Fournier's expiring, Grimes and 2 second round picks? The Knicks were 17 points worse with Evan on the court than when he was off. They were 18.4 points worse with Bogey on the court than when he was off. They both had a terrible impact on the team.

Obviously many people didn't expect Bogey to perform as poorly as he did in the regular season but he was even a negative impact player on the worst team in the league before his arrival in New York. In the playoffs Bogey hit some 3's but he also shot 11% from 2 and 29% overall. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire but some of those threes did come in big moments.

Last trade deadline people were discussing if it was worth sending out Grimes for guys like Murray. Can you honestly say that if a trade was proposed on this board last season to send out Fournier, Grimes, the 25, 27, 29, 31 unprotected Knicks firsts, the 25' Bucks pick, and 3 second rounders you would have called it a great move?

[WargamesX]

Wait who has a problem?

Not that it's that serious but...he doesn't like the move. It wasn't my favorite move either but, Bogs was actually useful compared to Evan and we landed Mikal with him. Great move in the end.

I don't want to continue to be the cause of this thread being derailed but the Detroit trade failed to improve the team. It failed to improve the bench. It failed to reduce the minute load on guys like Hart. It failed to add value to the Mikal trade other than salary and it actually reduced the salary available to trade possibly putting a cap on the team at the first apron.

Do you believe that Bogey provided more value in a trade to a rebuilding team than Fournier's expiring, Grimes and 2 second round picks? The Knicks were 17 points worse with Evan on the court than when he was off. They were 18.4 points worse with Bogey on the court than when he was off. They both had a terrible impact on the team.

Obviously many people didn't expect Bogey to perform as poorly as he did in the regular season but he was even a negative impact player on the worst team in the league before his arrival in New York. In the playoffs Bogey hit some 3's but he also shot 11% from 2 and 29% overall. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire but some of those threes did come in big moments.

Last trade deadline people were discussing if it was worth sending out Grimes for guys like Murray. Can you honestly say that if a trade was proposed on this board last season to send out Fournier, Grimes, the 25, 27, 29, 31 unprotected Knicks firsts, the 25' Bucks pick, and 3 second rounders you would have called it a great move?

You’re likely not wrong the FO has made its share of mistakes but to their credit they don't linger on those mistakes like they have something to prove. Turning all of that into Mikal is an accomplishment.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Wait who has a problem?

Not that it's that serious but...he doesn't like the move. It wasn't my favorite move either but, Bogs was actually useful compared to Evan and we landed Mikal with him. Great move in the end.

I don't want to continue to be the cause of this thread being derailed but the Detroit trade failed to improve the team. It failed to improve the bench. It failed to reduce the minute load on guys like Hart. It failed to add value to the Mikal trade other than salary and it actually reduced the salary available to trade possibly putting a cap on the team at the first apron.

Do you believe that Bogey provided more value in a trade to a rebuilding team than Fournier's expiring, Grimes and 2 second round picks? The Knicks were 17 points worse with Evan on the court than when he was off. They were 18.4 points worse with Bogey on the court than when he was off. They both had a terrible impact on the team.

Obviously many people didn't expect Bogey to perform as poorly as he did in the regular season but he was even a negative impact player on the worst team in the league before his arrival in New York. In the playoffs Bogey hit some 3's but he also shot 11% from 2 and 29% overall. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire but some of those threes did come in big moments.

Last trade deadline people were discussing if it was worth sending out Grimes for guys like Murray. Can you honestly say that if a trade was proposed on this board last season to send out Fournier, Grimes, the 25, 27, 29, 31 unprotected Knicks firsts, the 25' Bucks pick, and 3 second rounders you would have called it a great move?

I hated the trade. We had to move Evan when we did though. Bogey played better for us than Evan did. He helped us win a few games. Evan was useless. Fantasy trade proposals don't matter.

We ended up with Mikal as a result. Problem solved.