Knicks current cap situation

[Jalen Bluntson]

Not that it's that serious but...he doesn't like the move. It wasn't my favorite move either but, Bogs was actually useful compared to Evan and we landed Mikal with him. Great move in the end.

I don't want to continue to be the cause of this thread being derailed but the Detroit trade failed to improve the team. It failed to improve the bench. It failed to reduce the minute load on guys like Hart. It failed to add value to the Mikal trade other than salary and it actually reduced the salary available to trade possibly putting a cap on the team at the first apron.

Do you believe that Bogey provided more value in a trade to a rebuilding team than Fournier's expiring, Grimes and 2 second round picks? The Knicks were 17 points worse with Evan on the court than when he was off. They were 18.4 points worse with Bogey on the court than when he was off. They both had a terrible impact on the team.

Obviously many people didn't expect Bogey to perform as poorly as he did in the regular season but he was even a negative impact player on the worst team in the league before his arrival in New York. In the playoffs Bogey hit some 3's but he also shot 11% from 2 and 29% overall. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire but some of those threes did come in big moments.

Last trade deadline people were discussing if it was worth sending out Grimes for guys like Murray. Can you honestly say that if a trade was proposed on this board last season to send out Fournier, Grimes, the 25, 27, 29, 31 unprotected Knicks firsts, the 25' Bucks pick, and 3 second rounders you would have called it a great move?

You’re likely not wrong the FO has made its share of mistakes but to their credit they don't linger on those mistakes like they have something to prove. Turning all of that into Mikal is an accomplishment.

As much as I trust this FO, they have blundered their way to where we are today. Like you said though, they bounced back from those mistakes and kept it moving. 21 wins when they took over. 4 seed the first year. 1st rd exit. Blunders. Miss playoffs. 5 seed second round exit. 50 win 2 seed second round exit due to injuries. ECF level team. No superstar trade. No drafted superstar. No superteam. How? I have no fuggin idea!

[JayTWill]

I try not to get caught up in winning every trade because I believe building the best team is the ultimate goal but asset management plays a huge role in that. We can't say the Detroit trade was a success simply because we paid a ton of assets to get Mikal. We still don't even know if the Mikal trade is a success.

I love the addition of Mikal. I love the potential of the defensive versatility of the team if Mikal returns to his previous form. I love adding more size on the perimeter next to Brunson. I love the potential chemistry. I love the added offense. I love his relatively cheap contract for 2 more years. I love adding a guy that hasn't missed games throughout his career. I love all of that but it doesn't mean I have to turn a blind eye to previous missteps in getting to this point.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I try not to get caught up in winning every trade because I believe building the best team is the ultimate goal but asset management plays a huge role in that. We can't say the Detroit trade was a success simply because we paid a ton of assets to get Mikal. We still don't even know if the Mikal trade is a success.

I love the addition of Mikal. I love the potential of the defensive versatility of the team if Mikal returns to his previous form. I love adding more size on the perimeter next to Brunson. I love the potential chemistry. I love the added offense. I love his relatively cheap contract for 2 more years. I love adding a guy that hasn't missed games throughout his career. I love all of that but it doesn't mean I have to turn a blind eye to previous missteps in getting to this point.

There were plenty of mistakes but, NONE of them hurt the teams ability to improve every year basically. We went from 21 wins to 41 and the playoffs in the first year. They went 14-15 in the playoffs (3 trips) the last 4 years. They went 9-21 (5 trips) the previous 20 years. I think they are doing a pretty good job overall.

[Luv those Knicks]

As much as I trust this FO, they have blundered their way to where we are today. Like you said though, they bounced back from those mistakes and kept it moving. 21 wins when they took over. 4 seed the first year. 1st rd exit. Blunders. Miss playoffs. 5 seed second round exit. 50 win 2 seed second round exit due to injuries. ECF level team. No superstar trade. No drafted superstar. No superteam. How? I have no fuggin idea!

You know how they got here.

They tanked and tried to draft Zion. They had the worst record but got the 3rd pick, drafted RJ (the consensus #3 guy). They tried to sign Durrant & Irving, but they went to Brooklyn, so they signed Randle and a few others instead.

21-45, 8th pick, drafted Obi (oops)

But they drafted well outside of the lottery. Quick & Mitch helped a lot. Leon built an improved team through good later draft picks and trades. They tried to win with Walker & Fournier, but that was a bust, so they made a bit of cap room and signed Brunson.

Between Brunson, Randle, Quick, RJ, I-Hart & Mitch they had a pretty good team. Then they made 2 trades and got better.

I don't want to say that Leon is some sort of visionary. Partly it was luck. But he did collect a lot of extra picks, even with protections. He was probably shooting for above average when the Knicks team was Brunson/Randle/RJ/Quick in the 2022 off-season and not a title contender, and anyone who says different is being revisionist but it worked out, and they added Donte & OG & Bridges and the team is now very interesting.

[StlHawksFan]

I want Paul Reed as our backup C. He's pretty solid on the offensive glass and he averaged more stocks per minute than Mitch. Plus he shot close to 37% from 3 last season.

[Luv those Knicks]

So, it looks like NY will be capped at the first apron, due to being unwilling to include McBride and they can no longer sign and trade Burke. They could include Sims and maybe avoid the apron, but I'm not sure that would be enough, or sign and trade precious, but I'd almost rather keep Precious.

I think they might be able to sign a player to the Taxpayer exception, about 5 million, but not sure.

First Apron restrictions:

Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception
Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron

So, a mid-season trade would be that much more difficult. Granted, they go back under next year, so it just affects this year.

If I got anything wrong, feel free to correct me. This stuff is kinda confusing.

[HopelessKnick]

So, it looks like NY will be capped at the first apron, due to being unwilling to include McBride and they can no longer sign and trade Burke. They could include Sims and maybe avoid the apron, but I'm not sure that would be enough, or sign and trade precious, but I'd almost rather keep Precious.

I think they might be able to sign a player to the Taxpayer exception, about 5 million, but not sure.

First Apron restrictions:

Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception
Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron

So, a mid-season trade would be that much more difficult. Granted, they go back under next year, so it just affects this year.

If I got anything wrong, feel free to correct me. This stuff is kinda confusing.

To what amount can we sign-and-trade Precious? Would it be possible to sign-and-trade him to a third team as part of the Bridges trade?

[Luv those Knicks]

To what amount can we sign-and-trade Precious? Would it be possible to sign-and-trade him to a third team as part of the Bridges trade?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think we can sign him to a small increase on what he was paid last year, and we could trade him, but I think we'd be better off keeping him given that we're short on big men. I think a 3 team swap would work, but since the Nets could take him, I'm not sure there's much need for a 3rd team.

As I understand it, if we keep him and do a straight trade, Bogs for Bridges works straight up but over the cap, and that we're taking on salary, that locks us into the first apron.

If the Nets take Precious as part of the deal, we avoid the apron but lose precious. I don't think either scenario is ideal.

[HopelessKnick]

To what amount can we sign-and-trade Precious? Would it be possible to sign-and-trade him to a third team as part of the Bridges trade?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think we can sign him to a small increase on what he was paid last year, and we could trade him, but I think we'd be better off keeping him given that we're short on big men. I think a 3 team swap would work, but since the Nets could take him, I'm not sure there's much need for a 3rd team.

As I understand it, if we keep him and do a straight trade, Bogs for Bridges works straight up but over the cap, and that we're taking on salary, that locks us into the first apron.

If the Nets take Precious as part of the deal, we avoid the apron but lose precious. I don't think either scenario is ideal.

Thanks for clearing it up----as I understand it then, we don't have the ability do create a bigger salary with Precious. He made about 4.3mill. last season so at maxt we could increase to like around 6mill. right?

Any idea why we didn't bother to give Burks like a 1 year deal for 8mill. or so just to have an 8mill. expiring or so?

In conclusion, the only rumored name that may be available and is still on his rookie deal is Kessler at 2mill. Seems like the only player that salary-wise would be realistically attainable. Of course you'd still have to convince Ainge to deal him but it seems like the Jazz have cooled somewhat on him. He would make for a pretty solid 24minute backup or eventual starter. Like a white Mitch Robinson.

Is my conclusion correct that Center with salaries at 10+mill. will be unattainable for us as long as we want to keep our core together?

[Jalen Bluntson]

As much as I trust this FO, they have blundered their way to where we are today. Like you said though, they bounced back from those mistakes and kept it moving. 21 wins when they took over. 4 seed the first year. 1st rd exit. Blunders. Miss playoffs. 5 seed second round exit. 50 win 2 seed second round exit due to injuries. ECF level team. No superstar trade. No drafted superstar. No superteam. How? I have no fuggin idea!

You know how they got here.

They tanked and tried to draft Zion. They had the worst record but got the 3rd pick, drafted RJ (the consensus #3 guy). They tried to sign Durrant & Irving, but they went to Brooklyn, so they signed Randle and a few others instead.

21-45, 8th pick, drafted Obi (oops)

But they drafted well outside of the lottery. Quick & Mitch helped a lot. Leon built an improved team through good later draft picks and trades. They tried to win with Walker & Fournier, but that was a bust, so they made a bit of cap room and signed Brunson.

Between Brunson, Randle, Quick, RJ, I-Hart & Mitch they had a pretty good team. Then they made 2 trades and got better.

I don't want to say that Leon is some sort of visionary. Partly it was luck. But he did collect a lot of extra picks, even with protections. He was probably shooting for above average when the Knicks team was Brunson/Randle/RJ/Quick in the 2022 off-season and not a title contender, and anyone who says different is being revisionist but it worked out, and they added Donte & OG & Bridges and the team is now very interesting.

They didn't tank for RJ. They weren't even here yet. They didn't try to sign KD/Kyrie. They weren't even here yet. Start with March of 2020 and go from there. They drafted Obi. Etc etc.

[Richard4444]

So, it looks like NY will be capped at the first apron, due to being unwilling to include McBride and they can no longer sign and trade Burke. They could include Sims and maybe avoid the apron, but I'm not sure that would be enough, or sign and trade precious, but I'd almost rather keep Precious.

I think they might be able to sign a player to the Taxpayer exception, about 5 million, but not sure.

First Apron restrictions:

Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception
Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron

So, a mid-season trade would be that much more difficult. Granted, they go back under next year, so it just affects this year.

If I got anything wrong, feel free to correct me. This stuff is kinda confusing.

I think the 110% rule was for last season. This season the team is hard capped the outgoing salary is higher than the ongoing.

[Richard4444]

To what amount can we sign-and-trade Precious? Would it be possible to sign-and-trade him to a third team as part of the Bridges trade?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think we can sign him to a small increase on what he was paid last year, and we could trade him, but I think we'd be better off keeping him given that we're short on big men. I think a 3 team swap would work, but since the Nets could take him, I'm not sure there's much need for a 3rd team.

As I understand it, if we keep him and do a straight trade, Bogs for Bridges works straight up but over the cap, and that we're taking on salary, that locks us into the first apron.

If the Nets take Precious as part of the deal, we avoid the apron but lose precious. I don't think either scenario is ideal.

Thanks for clearing it up----as I understand it then, we don't have the ability do create a bigger salary with Precious. He made about 4.3mill. last season so at maxt we could increase to like around 6mill. right?

Any idea why we didn't bother to give Burks like a 1 year deal for 8mill. or so just to have an 8mill. expiring or so?

In conclusion, the only rumored name that may be available and is still on his rookie deal is Kessler at 2mill. Seems like the only player that salary-wise would be realistically attainable. Of course you'd still have to convince Ainge to deal him but it seems like the Jazz have cooled somewhat on him. He would make for a pretty solid 24minute backup or eventual starter. Like a white Mitch Robinson.

Is my conclusion correct that Center with salaries at 10+mill. will be unattainable for us as long as we want to keep our core together?

I don't know if we could increase his value in a trade. I doubt someone pays more than 10M to get him. His salary should count for us around 4,3 to 5M. Enough to free the hard cap at first apron but not enough to bring back more salary.

Maybe Burks did not want to wait. Or if we free the first apron, we are planning to give the money to other ring chasers players (Lowry, Hayward, Saric, Theis, Galo, etc).

Kessler makes 3M. But the trade will be tough because our only real asset is Deuce and the Jazz did not need another guard. Besides, we should have competition. Teams like Pelicans, Memphis and maybe Lakers should need another center.

It will be tough to bring a 10M center to the team in the next years. We may extend a 2 year player (like Sims) to a 10M salary to make him a salary filler and then trade him along with a pick or two next season.

[Richard4444]

I wonder if we are arguing with the NBA to consider Sims or Diakite outside the definition of minimum-salary players. And we are waiting for a official decision on this matter.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Knicks sign and trade Shake Milton and send Diabetes to the nets and it’s getting us unhard capped

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[Fury]

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[DaGawd]

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well damn.. this fo smart af

[G_K_F]

Bates Diop is decent depth.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Marci says we’ve got a cap hold on precious so we wouldn’t need to use the tax payer mle and could sign someone else for that 5.2 million. All the centers are gone so maybe there’s a forward as a super deep depth piece they could add like Saddiq Bey?

[G_K_F]

Marci says we’ve got a cap hold on precious so we wouldn’t need to use the tax payer mle and could sign someone else for that 5.2 million. All the centers are gone so maybe there’s a forward as a super deep depth piece they could add like Saddiq Bey?

We need a center.

Precious is undersized at that position and has bad hands. I like Precious and he played well last year but we need a stronger piece behind Mr. Glass Mitch Rob.

Saddiq Bey doesn't fill a need and, more importantly, he sucks.

[DaGawd]

Marci says we’ve got a cap hold on precious so we wouldn’t need to use the tax payer mle and could sign someone else for that 5.2 million. All the centers are gone so maybe there’s a forward as a super deep depth piece they could add like Saddiq Bey?

We need a center.

Precious is undersized at that position and has bad hands. I like Precious and he played well last year but we need a stronger piece behind Mr. Glass Mitch Rob.

Saddiq Bey doesn't fill a need and, more importantly, he sucks.

bey would be interesting if he weren’t coming off a torn acl