Does it discredit records if their breaking was imminent

[Godymas]

the flaw in your argument as it relates specifically to lebron is that he played a huge chunk of his career in one of the LOWEST scoring eras in NBA history. you argument works for doncic and tatum, but not for lebron. they are not his contemporaries - they get the benefit of playing their careers in the highest scoring and highest pace eras, but lebron didn't have that same benefit. this pace and scoring explosion didn't happen until lebron had been in the league for 12-14 years - he was already old before scoring became as you say "easier than it has ever been".

and yet you’ve failed to address the argument that LeBron’s longevity in scoring and less of a fall off from his early years is because the league made it easier for him to maintain his scoring therefore allowing him to be able to even have the record. Is there any guarantee that if the scoring was consistent that LeBron could be doing 25 ppg at his age.

Like what LeBron did in a harder era was impressive, but then if that harder scoring era stayed maybe as LeBron hits 35 his numbers dip even more.

And your ignoring how easy it was in the 70s and 80s. Even including these last years when hes past his prime, league wide scoring was actually higher during MJ and Kareems time. So why's should we penalize LeBron for having it easier at the end of his career rather than the beginning, other than recency bias?

and you're ignoring how Kareem played 4 years in college and LeBron got to come in as a teenager and get right to work from day one

[nikster]

and yet you’ve failed to address the argument that LeBron’s longevity in scoring and less of a fall off from his early years is because the league made it easier for him to maintain his scoring therefore allowing him to be able to even have the record. Is there any guarantee that if the scoring was consistent that LeBron could be doing 25 ppg at his age.

Like what LeBron did in a harder era was impressive, but then if that harder scoring era stayed maybe as LeBron hits 35 his numbers dip even more.

And your ignoring how easy it was in the 70s and 80s. Even including these last years when hes past his prime, league wide scoring was actually higher during MJ and Kareems time. So why's should we penalize LeBron for having it easier at the end of his career rather than the beginning, other than recency bias?

and you're ignoring how Kareem played 4 years in college and LeBron got to come in as a teenager and get right to work from day one

Does that mean you admit you'll drop the "era" argument from now on?

And why am I ignoring it? That is an obvious advantage for Lebron. I've never said otherwise

[picko]

LeBron currently has the most points of all time in the NBA. He broke a record set by Kareem which existed for many years. Kareem retired in 1989 and LeBron was drafted in 2003. In between that time, Jordan had his prime and it still wasn't enough to break Kareem's record.

When LeBron came into the league no one thought he could break Kareem's record. No one thought he would make it past 35. However LeBron has managed to do that and is now the all time point leader in both the regular season and the playoffs.

HOWEVER, LeBron may just have played at the same time as two players that might break his records in scoring. Those players are Luka Doncic and Jayson Tatum respectively. As of today Luka has a higher career PPG than LeBron. All he needs is the longevity and he will break LeBron's record. Tatum is also outpacing LeBron's rate because of his fortune to be drafted to the Celtics. Tatum was able to make the ECF early in his career and has consistently had deep playoff runs year over year.

The proximity of this leaves some questions about LeBron's true greatness. Is LeBron really the greatest of all time when it comes to scoring or did he happen to exist in an era where scoring was easier than it has ever been? Does LeBron really deserve the credit for breaking Kareem's record? It is a well advertised secret that scoring in the NBA is higher today than it was 10 years ago. A 20 ppg scorer is no longer an impressive thing. Actually every team has a 20 ppg scorer and most of them are not All Stars. Teams offensive rating is through the roof. LeBron obviously benefits from this. He is scoring at a rate never before seen from a late 30s player. Obviously some of this is LeBron's greatness, however how much of this is also inflation from the era? A lack of defense has been recognized in the modern NBA. The officiating leans towards offense, it's easier to score than ever because scoring drives viewers.

So does it discredit LeBron's greatness if he happened to have his records broken by players that competed against him? I would say it kind of does, it almost lends itself to the idea that LeBron is a product of his era rather than a product of transcending the game.

the flaw in your argument as it relates specifically to lebron is that he played a huge chunk of his career in one of the LOWEST scoring eras in NBA history. you argument works for doncic and tatum, but not for lebron. they are not his contemporaries - they get the benefit of playing their careers in the highest scoring and highest pace eras, but lebron didn't have that same benefit. this pace and scoring explosion didn't happen until lebron had been in the league for 12-14 years - he was already old before scoring became as you say "easier than it has ever been".

and yet you’ve failed to address the argument that LeBron’s longevity in scoring and less of a fall off from his early years is because the league made it easier for him to maintain his scoring therefore allowing him to be able to even have the record. Is there any guarantee that if the scoring was consistent that LeBron could be doing 25 ppg at his age.

Like what LeBron did in a harder era was impressive, but then if that harder scoring era stayed maybe as LeBron hits 35 his numbers dip even more.

I think it's fair to say that LeBron's scoring has aged better by virtue of the league becoming faster paced and more conducive to scoring. However, the impact perhaps isn't as significant as you might think.

Let's assume, for example, that the NBA never experienced the pace-and-space era. From 2015-16 to now, LeBron averages 4 PPG fewer across a total of 580 games (about 23 PPG). That means he scores 2,320 points fewer across that period, which means that he'd be a few hundred points short of passing Kareem.

I'd argue that the net impact of pace has probably been negative for LeBron compared to other all-time great scorers like Kareem or Jordan or Wilt. And that a faster pace would have been more beneficial for young LeBron than it was for older LeBron.

But I feel like these arguments move us away from the simple reality that neither Doncic or Tatum have any real chance of breaking LeBron's scoring records. The records are genuinely impressive and would require incredible longevity from both players that simply isn't likely based on NBA history.

[Homer38]

NBA average scoring over career/prime:

LBJ___MJ___KAJ__Luka
103.4 103.7 108.9 112.4
101.9 104.3 108.8 112.7

So if that holds Luka would have to score 4000 more points than LeBron to be as impressive, but he is currently about 4000 points behind age 25 LeBron.

[Godymas]

And your ignoring how easy it was in the 70s and 80s. Even including these last years when hes past his prime, league wide scoring was actually higher during MJ and Kareems time. So why's should we penalize LeBron for having it easier at the end of his career rather than the beginning, other than recency bias?

and you're ignoring how Kareem played 4 years in college and LeBron got to come in as a teenager and get right to work from day one

Does that mean you admit you'll drop the "era" argument from now on?

And why am I ignoring it? That is an obvious advantage for Lebron. I've never said otherwise

You should actually look at the numbers you're using in your argument because it doesn't help your argument.

For example, the average ppg of the 1975 NBA season was 102. That is the actually one of the lowest all time. So I actually think your entire argument is wrong and Kareem seems untouchable in his regard because the variance in his era was much less than what LeBron had.

Plus Kareem was delegated to a second/third option on the Lakers unlike LeBron who forced teams to make him the man.

[Homer38]

and you're ignoring how Kareem played 4 years in college and LeBron got to come in as a teenager and get right to work from day one

Does that mean you admit you'll drop the "era" argument from now on?

And why am I ignoring it? That is an obvious advantage for Lebron. I've never said otherwise

You should actually look at the numbers you're using in your argument because it doesn't help your argument.

For example, the average ppg of the 1975 NBA season was 102. That is the actually one of the lowest all time. So I actually think your entire argument is wrong and Kareem seems untouchable in his regard because the variance in his era was much less than what LeBron had.

Plus Kareem was delegated to a second/third option on the Lakers unlike LeBron who forced teams to make him the man.

still less that the NBA average of the 21 years career of LBJ so far......

[nikster]

and you're ignoring how Kareem played 4 years in college and LeBron got to come in as a teenager and get right to work from day one

Does that mean you admit you'll drop the "era" argument from now on?

And why am I ignoring it? That is an obvious advantage for Lebron. I've never said otherwise

You should actually look at the numbers you're using in your argument because it doesn't help your argument.

For example, the average ppg of the 1975 NBA season was 102. That is the actually one of the lowest all time. So I actually think your entire argument is wrong and Kareem seems untouchable in his regard because the variance in his era was much less than what LeBron had.

Plus Kareem was delegated to a second/third option on the Lakers unlike LeBron who forced teams to make him the man.

You can't seriously be this bad at simple stats can you? The 74-75 season, "one of the lowest of all time" is the 34th lowest ppg all time. 14 of Lebrons seasons were lower than that.

In case you need another reminder, someone else posted the NBA average scoring over career:

LBJ___MJ___KAJ__Luka
103.4 103.7 108.9 112.4

[Godymas]

Does that mean you admit you'll drop the "era" argument from now on?

And why am I ignoring it? That is an obvious advantage for Lebron. I've never said otherwise

You should actually look at the numbers you're using in your argument because it doesn't help your argument.

For example, the average ppg of the 1975 NBA season was 102. That is the actually one of the lowest all time. So I actually think your entire argument is wrong and Kareem seems untouchable in his regard because the variance in his era was much less than what LeBron had.

Plus Kareem was delegated to a second/third option on the Lakers unlike LeBron who forced teams to make him the man.

You can't seriously be this bad at simple stats can you? The 74-75 season, "one of the lowest of all time" is the 34th lowest ppg all time. 14 of Lebrons seasons were lower than that.

In case you need another reminder, someone else posted the NBA average scoring over career:

LBJ___MJ___KAJ__Luka
103.4 103.7 108.9 112.4

so what is LeBron's scoring average if you adjust for the Kareem scale and have LeBron become a 4 year product out of college?

[nikster]

You should actually look at the numbers you're using in your argument because it doesn't help your argument.

For example, the average ppg of the 1975 NBA season was 102. That is the actually one of the lowest all time. So I actually think your entire argument is wrong and Kareem seems untouchable in his regard because the variance in his era was much less than what LeBron had.

Plus Kareem was delegated to a second/third option on the Lakers unlike LeBron who forced teams to make him the man.

You can't seriously be this bad at simple stats can you? The 74-75 season, "one of the lowest of all time" is the 34th lowest ppg all time. 14 of Lebrons seasons were lower than that.

In case you need another reminder, someone else posted the NBA average scoring over career:

LBJ___MJ___KAJ__Luka
103.4 103.7 108.9 112.4

so what is LeBron's scoring average if you adjust for the Kareem scale and have LeBron become a 4 year product out of college?

Big of you to finally admit your eras argument was wrong

[Slimjimzv]

Why are we doing this?

[Hoop Hunter]

The records most imminent to be broken are 3pt records. The massive increase in 3pter's attempted is staggering. Todays numbers can somewhat be discredited, except for Curry, he'd have broken records regardless.

Elite 3pt shooters like Reggie Miller and Ray Allen who once had numbers we thought would be hard to break. Will now be broke by mediocre players. Almost need a separate category for the pre 3pt crazy area.

[Godymas]

You can't seriously be this bad at simple stats can you? The 74-75 season, "one of the lowest of all time" is the 34th lowest ppg all time. 14 of Lebrons seasons were lower than that.

In case you need another reminder, someone else posted the NBA average scoring over career:

LBJ___MJ___KAJ__Luka
103.4 103.7 108.9 112.4

so what is LeBron's scoring average if you adjust for the Kareem scale and have LeBron become a 4 year product out of college?

Big of you to finally admit your eras argument was wrong

LeBron has been padding his points in the highest scoring era ever

[nikster]

so what is LeBron's scoring average if you adjust for the Kareem scale and have LeBron become a 4 year product out of college?

Big of you to finally admit your eras argument was wrong

LeBron has been padding his points in the highest scoring era ever

Yeah your just trolling at this point

[Warriorfan]

The most impressive feat of Lebron is that his body didn’t break down into his 30’s. He had the back problems in Miami but he somehow overcame that.

While Luka and Tatum are impressive, the real challenge for them is to stay consistent and injury free into their 30’s. Lebron is a complete anomaly in that regard, and that’s why he’s in uncharted territory.

Even in the bloated scoring era, it’s going to be an incredibly challenging for these younger guys to catch Lebron. He’s an outlier.

Advantage of the modern player. Shift like nanobots may enable a player to play all star level at 50

[FrodoFraggins]

career records no. Single season records yes as they will just be a footnote.

[NZB2323]

I thought this thread was going to be about Ray Allen being #1 in 3 pointers made in 2011 only to be passed by Steph Curry in 2021, and now it looks like Harden, Lillard, Klay, and others will pass Ray Allen.

[Homer38]

so what is LeBron's scoring average if you adjust for the Kareem scale and have LeBron become a 4 year product out of college?

Big of you to finally admit your eras argument was wrong

LeBron has been padding his points in the highest scoring era ever

Why at one point LBJ had under 20 FGA per game in 11 years in a row if the all-time total points record was so important for him?

Make no sense

[Hair Jordan]

You forgot to log in to your Heir_Jordan account.

Nah, he’s not me. Also, it’s Hair Jordan. Put some respect on my damn name.

[dautjazz]

What do you mean by no one thought he could beat the record? Kareem played 4 years of college, so seeing Lebron playing at such a high level out of the gates, it never seamed like something out of reach. Hell Karl Malone even had a shot to beat it, but chose to retire instead of chasing the record.

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