Build a Franchise (Season 8) Discussion Thread- Announcement on page 87

[Capn'O]

i don't think anyone was saying it was just a 2 man show. but im just speaking from experience, curry was too much for me to handle when i faced the spurs in the finals twice. and i had jamal murray one of those times. curry averaged 30 PPG in the post season when i faced him with murray and i couldn't match him. so going from curry to murray is a downgrade, just don't know how big it will be. of course the spurs have a bunch of great complimentary players as well, no one is discrediting that and they're still the favorites

The flipside of that was I was mostly able to keep Curry at bay but Jokic completely annihilated me. I put fair resources into that strategy. The Sim definitely factors how the respective gravity of these two impacts the other. Compare with the Jokic/Giannis experiment.

Mpharris may be correct that Murray will interplay similarly.

[TerrenceClarke]

Damn MPH is really out here acting like curry is JAG

[mpharris36]

Damn MPH is really out here acting like curry is JAG

Nah won't disrespect the GOAT shooter. His impact has been enormous in our chips. Just trying to stay ahead of the SIM.

[3toheadmelo]

i don't think anyone was saying it was just a 2 man show. but im just speaking from experience, curry was too much for me to handle when i faced the spurs in the finals twice. and i had jamal murray one of those times. curry averaged 30 PPG in the post season when i faced him with murray and i couldn't match him. so going from curry to murray is a downgrade, just don't know how big it will be. of course the spurs have a bunch of great complimentary players as well, no one is discrediting that and they're still the favorites

All that's fair but curry 3 years ago isn't the same Curry. I think the year you are referencing our 1st finals against he was coming off 3rd in the MVP voting IRL. That year he had insane #'s 32 ppg in crazy splits.

It certainly is a downgrade in scoring. But there are areas where I believe Murray will exceed Curry in the SIM. Also think Rui will be a big time contributor and the extra space I saved helped me acquire NAW who had a good year defensively.

So yes 1 for 1 production wise maybe a downgrade. But I think I got better in other areas as well especially when you can save $100 in a deal along with other assets.

curry is still damn good in the SIM is what i am saying. he averaged 28 PPG in the finals against me this year. that's top 5 player production murray never did that for me in the 2 years i had him. but like i said, you're still the favorites and no one has said otherwise. just curious to see how big of a drop off going from curry to murray will be in the SIM and how it will affect your team

[mpharris36]

i don't think anyone was saying it was just a 2 man show. but im just speaking from experience, curry was too much for me to handle when i faced the spurs in the finals twice. and i had jamal murray one of those times. curry averaged 30 PPG in the post season when i faced him with murray and i couldn't match him. so going from curry to murray is a downgrade, just don't know how big it will be. of course the spurs have a bunch of great complimentary players as well, no one is discrediting that and they're still the favorites

All that's fair but curry 3 years ago isn't the same Curry. I think the year you are referencing our 1st finals against he was coming off 3rd in the MVP voting IRL. That year he had insane #'s 32 ppg in crazy splits.

It certainly is a downgrade in scoring. But there are areas where I believe Murray will exceed Curry in the SIM. Also think Rui will be a big time contributor and the extra space I saved helped me acquire NAW who had a good year defensively.

So yes 1 for 1 production wise maybe a downgrade. But I think I got better in other areas as well especially when you can save $100 in a deal along with other assets.

curry is still damn good in the SIM is what i am saying. he averaged 28 PPG in the finals against me this year. that's top 5 player production murray never did that for me in the 2 years i had him. but like i said, you're still the favorites and no one has said otherwise. just curious to see how big of a drop off going from curry to murray will be in the SIM and how it will affect your team

We shall see. I'm hoping/planning for it not to be a huge difference next year.

[3toheadmelo]

All that's fair but curry 3 years ago isn't the same Curry. I think the year you are referencing our 1st finals against he was coming off 3rd in the MVP voting IRL. That year he had insane #'s 32 ppg in crazy splits.

It certainly is a downgrade in scoring. But there are areas where I believe Murray will exceed Curry in the SIM. Also think Rui will be a big time contributor and the extra space I saved helped me acquire NAW who had a good year defensively.

So yes 1 for 1 production wise maybe a downgrade. But I think I got better in other areas as well especially when you can save $100 in a deal along with other assets.

curry is still damn good in the SIM is what i am saying. he averaged 28 PPG in the finals against me this year. that's top 5 player production murray never did that for me in the 2 years i had him. but like i said, you're still the favorites and no one has said otherwise. just curious to see how big of a drop off going from curry to murray will be in the SIM and how it will affect your team

We shall see. I'm hoping/planning for it not to be a huge difference next year.

i doubt it's a major difference. im calling you the favorites still for a reason. but you were damn near unbeatable with curry x jokic. trying to see if i have a shot at beating you now

[mpharris36]

curry is still damn good in the SIM is what i am saying. he averaged 28 PPG in the finals against me this year. that's top 5 player production murray never did that for me in the 2 years i had him. but like i said, you're still the favorites and no one has said otherwise. just curious to see how big of a drop off going from curry to murray will be in the SIM and how it will affect your team

We shall see. I'm hoping/planning for it not to be a huge difference next year.

i doubt it's a major difference. im calling you the favorites still for a reason. but you were damn near unbeatable with curry x jokic. trying to see if i have a shot at beating you now

The league is full of really good teams including your own. Just trying to stay creative.

The best 1-2 duo might be in your own division.

[3toheadmelo]

We shall see. I'm hoping/planning for it not to be a huge difference next year.

i doubt it's a major difference. im calling you the favorites still for a reason. but you were damn near unbeatable with curry x jokic. trying to see if i have a shot at beating you now

The league is full of really good teams in clouding your own. Just trying to stay creative.

The best 1-2 duo might be in your own division.

yeah a lot of teams have gotten much better this off season. should be a really competitive season.

[2010]

curry is still damn good in the SIM is what i am saying. he averaged 28 PPG in the finals against me this year. that's top 5 player production murray never did that for me in the 2 years i had him. but like i said, you're still the favorites and no one has said otherwise. just curious to see how big of a drop off going from curry to murray will be in the SIM and how it will affect your team

We shall see. I'm hoping/planning for it not to be a huge difference next year.

i doubt it's a major difference. im calling you the favorites still for a reason. but you were damn near unbeatable with curry x jokic. trying to see if i have a shot at beating you now

Melo really flexing on the rest of the East here!

Well at least he is a competitor and not cowering in the corner in the fetal position like Charlotte’s GM.

[3toheadmelo]

We shall see. I'm hoping/planning for it not to be a huge difference next year.

i doubt it's a major difference. im calling you the favorites still for a reason. but you were damn near unbeatable with curry x jokic. trying to see if i have a shot at beating you now

Melo really flexing on the rest of the East here!

Well at least he is a competitor and not cowering in the corner in the fetal position like Charlotte’s GM.

Not tryna flex cause i know mad teams in the east got better including you. It was really tough making it to the finals this time around and I am sure it will be even harder next season since so many teams are loaded. It's not guaranteed I make it back to the finals again. I'm just looking at the Spurs cause I faced dude twice in the finals and lost. Tryna figure how to beat them. Although this last time i got hit with major injuries which didnt help.

[2010]

i doubt it's a major difference. im calling you the favorites still for a reason. but you were damn near unbeatable with curry x jokic. trying to see if i have a shot at beating you now

Melo really flexing on the rest of the East here!

Well at least he is a competitor and not cowering in the corner in the fetal position like Charlotte’s GM.

Not tryna flex cause i know mad teams in the east got better including you. It was really tough making it to the finals this time around and I am sure it will be even harder next season since so many teams are loaded. It's not guaranteed I make it back to the finals again. I'm just looking at the Spurs cause I faced dude twice in the finals and lost. Tryna figure how to beat them. Although this last time i got hit with major injuries which didnt help.

Nah, I feel you. I’m just stirring the pot!

East gonna be banoodles this season for sure. To be honest there’s gonna be a good team or two that doesn’t even make the playoffs. And as you proved, being a play-in team now means a trip to the finals isn’t impossible.

I’m still waiting to see what Context does in free agency and/or trades to fill out his roster too.

Then you still got:

• Chicago (usual suspect as a major contender)
• Charlotte (even tho they’re spooked)
• Brooklyn (due some sim boosts and will be healthy)
• Miami (love what they’ve done this off-season)
• Orlando (might have taken a step back)

…and new look teams who can beat you on any night like:

• Indiana (Jalen Brown & Julius Randle)
• Atlanta (Curry, Siakam, Turner)
• New York (Haliburton, Murray, Kuzma)
• Philly (Maxey & a deep supporting cast)
• Boston (LeBron & Chet)

[Manhattan Project]

[NewEra]

Spoiler:

[KnicksGadfly]

Read on Twitter

Bish: that’s easy ****…amateur stuff!

[bishnykfan]

ANNOUNCEMENT

We have two rule change proposals to present to the league. Please take a couple of days to look over both proposals. Both were submitted after a bit of back and forth. To remain neutral I will not give my opinion on these until after the vote is complete. Read and discuss for the next two days. I will call for a vote no later than Tuesday and we will have a yes/no by Friday. As always, majority rules, need a minimum of 16 yesses to pass each prop.

Feel free to ask questions in the thread and I can relay them to the proposer via PM if they want to remain anonymous. Please PM all votes when the time comes.

Spoiler:

Prop 1


Draft and Stash Rule

Each team gets one no-cost exempt slot, available only for second round picks drafted by that team. Once a picked player is traded that player is no longer eligible for this option. Once a player is "stashed," callups may only happen during subsequent offseasons, as with other exempt list players. Called up players are assigned a salary in accordance with their draft position. A players rights may be held indefinitely.

Once a player is assigned to a "draft and stash" slot, a GM can:

1. Renounce the players rights at any time, reopening the slot for future drafts and sending the player to the free agent pool, as applicable
2. Trade the player to a team whose "stash" slot is open or trade for another player on a "stash" slot.
3. Call that player up to their roster in subsequent offseasons
4. "Draft and Stash players must be declared prior to the free agency period following that draft."

Spoiler:

Prop 2



Modifying the over the cap rule of 10%
Tier 1: 20% over the cap Top 5% of the league.
Tier 2: 15% over the cap Top 30% of the league.
Tier 3: 10% over the cap remainder of players.

Each team would be allowed to apply this to TWO players on their roster they held bird rights on-
for each off-season.

[KnicksGadfly]

Can we explain Prop 2 more? What do the different tiers mean? What does it mean Top 5% of the league. Is that based on team or player ranking? Can you give examples?

Off the top of my head, without knowing more,...I really dislike the 2nd rule, as it just seems like a power-up for birds rights. I think bird rights are already very powerful in this league and we get lots of team control already. Moreover, the 5th year is already very powerful. Someone bidding $125/4 = $100/5. $250/4 = $200/5. $500/4 = $400/5. That is a huge advantage already...I'm not sure we need more. If we provide any more cap space on top of this, I feel like FA will be decimated...people have already referenced next year's off-season as a big one. Do we really need to give the home teams even more advantages in FA?

If you are lucky enough to get a star or two or three, I think it's fair and healthier for the league that at some point, you have to make tough decisions. You have to plan your team and make tough moves and swaps to build around that core. You can keep the core, but it requires a lot of creativity and planning. I think a move, where you only further increase the advantage of bird rights, only acts as a bail-out and increases the incentive to be inactive and not make tough decisions...that is less healthy for our league.

[wackbone]

^ I echo his thoughts exactly.

[3toheadmelo]

Prop 2 would’ve been helpful for me when Tatum, Bam, Murray and lavine were all free agents… ima have to vote NO. If I had to make tough decisions and start over y’all gonna have to do the same lol

[DOT]

I vote yes on 1, no on 2

Firstly because we're never gonna agree on who the cutoff is, 5% of 450 is 22.5, so who's the 22nd best player in the league? Seems like it'd be someone who's a fringe All Star, I don't think that's good enough to justify that

If it were top 5 players, maybe, but for 22 players, that's too broad a brush. Similarly, the top 30% is 135 players, so it would more or less just be adding $50-ish of wiggle room for every team

Also, I'm a big proponent of competitive balance, so we should be helping bad teams get better, not good teams stay good. No offense to mp, he's done a great job, but dynasties are boring. We need more parity, and this would do the opposite of that.

[mpharris36]

Proposal one seems fine. Seems like the league has wanted a draft and stash player. I would however like to amend rule one a bit or at least have a discussion about it. It doesn't necessarily outline that the drafted player has to be an overseas player. So it can be any 2nd round pick you can stash.

My concern with this is if someone say drafts a 2nd round pick he is playing well but the team isn't good yet that player might just keep that player on his stash list until he's good or until the player breaks out so significantly where he can then he can basically just keep his contract frozen until the perfect time.

Exempt list contracts can be frozen but those guys arent in the NBA producing. In theory a player could be an all-star in real life and you could keep the draft and stash contract frozen until the perfect time (whether for tanking or roster cap purposes). I dont think that is realistic that a player could be good IRL and is still eligible to be put on the draft and stash list. Maybe put someone that a player can only stay on the draft and stash for not consecutive years or something like that?

If it's still a overseas player you can convert him to an exempt so that shouldn't be a concern. At least this prevents a team from hording a good player on there stash list for multiple years which seems unrealistic especially if he's good to keep his contract down.

As for rule 2 I would vote no. Too much ambiguity and like others have stated I feel like it changes to much on how good teams can manipulate the cap. Even though I have been winning I agree parity is the best for the longevity of the game for sure. Doesn't mean good teams can't dominate and be great but I still like the fact everyteam operates under the same salary cap restraints.