Trades and Transactions thread cont - we still need a center

[Ghetto Gospel]

a career rim runner that also was the best rim protector in the NBA last year. And if you look at the Jazz roster they aren't littered with good perimeter defenders. So for what we need I think he would fit with the potential to maybe improve and take over for Mitch down the road.

if he was the best rim protector in the NBA, the jazz would give him 36min/game and ask for 5 1st round picks like they did gobert. i watched him against zach edey last night, come on now. he's a fine backup rim-running C, basically mitch 2.0

players shot a lower % at the rim vs him than Gobert or KP. We can argue about semantics about "the best" but he is an ELITE rim protector.

thats just one piece to the puzzle. what about defensive awareness/iq, knowing where to be, warding players away from being at the rim.

if he was elite at protecting the paint, he'd play 36min/game and the jazz defense would be top5 just like how it was when they had a bunch of trash perimeter defenders and gobert.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Lamarcus Aldridge is available

i think he retired

Go get him

i'd rather get jahlil okafor with an ozempic subscription

[mpharris36]

if he was the best rim protector in the NBA, the jazz would give him 36min/game and ask for 5 1st round picks like they did gobert. i watched him against zach edey last night, come on now. he's a fine backup rim-running C, basically mitch 2.0

players shot a lower % at the rim vs him than Gobert or KP. We can argue about semantics about "the best" but he is an ELITE rim protector.

thats just one piece to the puzzle. what about defensive awareness/iq, knowing where to be, warding players away from being at the rim.

if he was elite at protecting the paint, he'd play 36min/game and the jazz defense would be top5 just like how it was when they had a bunch of trash perimeter defenders and gobert.

why do you assume that. Will Hardy is an offensive coach that wants to play 5 out.

[KnixinSix]

a career rim runner that also was the best rim protector in the NBA last year. And if you look at the Jazz roster they aren't littered with good perimeter defenders. So for what we need I think he would fit with the potential to maybe improve and take over for Mitch down the road.

if he was the best rim protector in the NBA, the jazz would give him 36min/game and ask for 5 1st round picks like they did gobert. i watched him against zach edey last night, come on now. he's a fine backup rim-running C, basically mitch 2.0

players shot a lower % at the rim vs him than Gobert or KP. We can argue about semantics about "the best" but he is an ELITE rim protector.

Which is exactly what a Thibodeau system requires out of their Centers. BOTH Mitch and IHart focused on spacing and timing and being rim protectors in our system. It resulted in both having extremely high defensive metrics last year. If you remember, some were saying Mitch Rob was on the way to vying for DPOY before injury.

[Richard4444]

The Knicks paid 300 cents on the dollar while positioning themselves to be in rough shape as Brunson/Bridges hit their early 30's and Randle his mid 30's (2028-2031) for a fringe top-30 player.

I guess it would have been historic if I maxed out all my credit cards to pay a Ferrari price for shiny new S Class.

Remember, the ancillary cost of the Bridges trade was having no assets to play with for an extended period of time.

Are you Ari from Manhattan?

I'm sorry, Mikal Bridges is the G.O.A.T. and the Knicks stole him from Brooklyn at a discount.

I responded to Hahn saying that the Knicks getting Bridges was historic by giving an opinion that the only historic part about the trade was the overpay by the Knicks. Which, most reports who like the deal concede its an overpay.

Probably, it's an overpay. However, it was our best option for upgrade.

1) We had to upgrade at the position 2 or 5. We already had 3 starting players with star/potential star status: Brunson, OG, and Randle. We could not take them from their starting unit without getting heat and a decrease in morale. Brunson is our starting PG, he can not play other positions. OG and Randle are our starting forwards. They can not play another position.

2) The upgrade needs to be a 2-way player. Because we already have Brunson and Randle as part of our core. We can not have more defensive liability, especially for a team that sells itself as a defensive team.

3) The upgrade needs to have a small salary. We could not send more money and we did not have plenty of tradable contracts.

4) We did not have too many valuable assets to land a great star. Our protected picks were almost worthless considering Detroit, Washington, and Bucks' status. The first two only lose. The last one re-signed Giannis and got Lillard in all in-move and they probably will be a top team again next season. Our unprotected picks also lost their value. Because we already built a pretty good team, especially for the regular season, and tend to give very low picks for a while. Most importantly, we do not have tradable potential players that can have a nice price in a trade for a great star (Deuce is so-so to the market). Only pick trades are very risky because the seller can end up with a bunch of low picks. We can be easily beaten on a bid war.

5) We had to act this season. Next season, there are strong chances we will be at the second apron and can not attach salaries in a trade anymore. We may be forced to pay a lot for Brunson and Randle if they demand next season. We needed to be prepared to pay our max to IHArt and even now we may be forced to pay for his replacement.

Getting Mikal now was one of the only moves that made sense. We could not miss this opportunity.

[GONYK]

if he was the best rim protector in the NBA, the jazz would give him 36min/game and ask for 5 1st round picks like they did gobert. i watched him against zach edey last night, come on now. he's a fine backup rim-running C, basically mitch 2.0

players shot a lower % at the rim vs him than Gobert or KP. We can argue about semantics about "the best" but he is an ELITE rim protector.

thats just one piece to the puzzle. what about defensive awareness/iq, knowing where to be, warding players away from being at the rim.

if he was elite at protecting the paint, he'd play 36min/game and the jazz defense would be top5 just like how it was when they had a bunch of trash perimeter defenders and gobert.

I think the knock against him (based on statements from Ainge and Hardy) is that he's a very good rim protector, but otherwise, he is soft.

[Ghetto Gospel]

players shot a lower % at the rim vs him than Gobert or KP. We can argue about semantics about "the best" but he is an ELITE rim protector.

thats just one piece to the puzzle. what about defensive awareness/iq, knowing where to be, warding players away from being at the rim.

if he was elite at protecting the paint, he'd play 36min/game and the jazz defense would be top5 just like how it was when they had a bunch of trash perimeter defenders and gobert.

why do you assume that. Will Hardy is an offensive coach that wants to play 5 out.

utah jazz defensive rating with walker kessler 119.0, utah jazz defensive rating without walker kessler 120.8.

sorry, he improves their defense very slightly. he's not that guy

[Ghetto Gospel]

players shot a lower % at the rim vs him than Gobert or KP. We can argue about semantics about "the best" but he is an ELITE rim protector.

thats just one piece to the puzzle. what about defensive awareness/iq, knowing where to be, warding players away from being at the rim.

if he was elite at protecting the paint, he'd play 36min/game and the jazz defense would be top5 just like how it was when they had a bunch of trash perimeter defenders and gobert.

I think the knock against him (based on statements from Ainge and Hardy) is that he's a very good rim protector, but otherwise, he is soft.

yeah, i saw that zach edey tip-in to send last nights game into overtime. he told walker kessler to get the fk out of the way and he obliged.

[nyk2017]

thats just one piece to the puzzle. what about defensive awareness/iq, knowing where to be, warding players away from being at the rim.

if he was elite at protecting the paint, he'd play 36min/game and the jazz defense would be top5 just like how it was when they had a bunch of trash perimeter defenders and gobert.

why do you assume that. Will Hardy is an offensive coach that wants to play 5 out.

utah jazz defensive rating with walker kessler 119.0, utah jazz defensive rating without walker kessler 120.8.

sorry, he improves their defense very slightly. he's not that guy

Kessler is not worth more than 1 SRP. At most, I would give them Simms and the WAS FRP. Not one bit more.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I'm sorry, Mikal Bridges is the G.O.A.T. and the Knicks stole him from Brooklyn at a discount.

I responded to Hahn saying that the Knicks getting Bridges was historic by giving an opinion that the only historic part about the trade was the overpay by the Knicks. Which, most reports who like the deal concede its an overpay.

The Knicks and Nets hadn't made a deal in over 4 decades. That's pretty historic. I wish they could have kept the 2031 pick but, they gave up garbage to get him. He's one of the best two way wings in the league who never misses time. That doesn't come cheap.

I disagree that they gave up garbage. And there are ancillary costs to giving up the amount of future draft capital they gave up.

Sure, the 2 picks they gave up in 2025 are likely to fall in the 20's, which one likely in the high 20's. I'll even give you that the 2027 1st likely falls in the 20's.

But 2028, 2029 and 2031 - those are scary. This team will be older. If it works out well they will have a ton of playoff miles on time. It's more likely that 2 of those picks come back to hurt than 0.

Not to mention, the roster has holes and those holes will become more defined as the roster gets older and more expensive. The paths to patch those holes are very limited.

I see so many similarities to the Derrick Rose Bulls here. That team had a 2 year run as the top seed in the east but wasn't good enough to get past Miami. Then settled in as a mid level playoff team for 3 years. By year 6 they missed the playoffs and started to rebuild. And to jump ahead of this, Rose got hurt and was never the same but they also developed a home grown star in Jimmy Butler.

But break down those rosters:

Rose and Brunson play a similar role
Randle and Boozer are your similar traditional PF, not ideal #2 option but best available guy
They had Deng/Noah whereas we have Bridges/OG
Their Mitchell Robinson was Ronnie Brewer
Our Taj Gibson is Josh Hart
Their Donte DeVincenzo was Kyle Korver
And Omer Asik and Duce McBride round it out

So you are worried that two of the picks may be valuable? I'm pretty sure you have to give up something of value in a trade in order to get something of value back. That's not an over pay. It's the cost of doing business. Comparing the team to a Bulls team from over a decade ago is meaningless. This was an historic trade. It was NOT an historic overpay.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

WAS 1st, DET 1st, future 2nd should get it done for Kessler.

I seriously doubt it. Ainge isn't likely to take futures with those conditions attached to the picks.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

Read on Twitter

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So true!!!!!!!!!!!!

Forget about Kessler, there's no way that draft pick horder Ainge accepts any protected 1st from the Knicks.

We need a Center and it would be tremendously wasteful that we go for it so aggressively for Bridges then lose a key player like I-Hart and then have to rely on an extremely injury prone Mitch at the 5. The Bridges move signified emptying the warchest as a very much 'win-now' move.

So, if we are going for it, then do what it takes to secure a championship roster that has depth at the key positions that Thibs needs to run his system!

Now the Donovan Mitchell trade didn't happen until real late a few seasons ago, so this may be a waiting game, but either way we need to get a guy that can rim protect here to play with the oft-injured Robinson.

Between McBride, Dadiet, McCullers, Sims and the Detroit and/or Washington 1st round picks, there has to be some combination that is strong enough to net us Kessler or Richards or another guy that can rim protect at the 5 at a high level like Thibs system needs.

And then a vet high level ball handler to back up Brunson like Lowry or DSJ until Kolek is ready.

Those assets work with Richards, but Ainge is looking for unprotected #1 picks, Kessler isn't happening with the Knicks.

[cgf]

It's nice trusting this FO. I hope they have something up their sleeve, but if they decide to head into the season with Mitch backed up by Sims & Achiuwa, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they were continuing to explore the trade market to see who ends up with a Center they don't really need, in case we get a 30-game season from Mitch rather than a 60-game one.

[Jeffrey]

I'll say it again... y'all should read Utah Jazz forums. They are lukewarm about trading him. There's something up with him, I think there's some red flags about him.

[spree2kawhi]

why do you assume that. Will Hardy is an offensive coach that wants to play 5 out.

utah jazz defensive rating with walker kessler 119.0, utah jazz defensive rating without walker kessler 120.8.

sorry, he improves their defense very slightly. he's not that guy

Kessler is not worth more than 1 SRP. At most, I would give them Simms and the WAS FRP. Not one bit more.

That’s undervaluing him. He’s worth a lot more. I doubt we can get him.

[spree2kawhi]

Hoopshype says the Knicks are interested in Bertans. Could be worse, but also better.

[HarthorneWingo]

Hoopshype says the Knicks are interested in Bertans. Could be worse, but also better.

Svi 2.0

[knicksNOTslick]

It's nice trusting this FO. I hope they have something up their sleeve, but if they decide to head into the season with Mitch backed up by Sims & Achiuwa, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they were continuing to explore the trade market to see who ends up with a Center they don't really need, in case we get a 30-game season from Mitch rather than a 60-game one.

Yes I trust this FO as well. I think they're high on Deuce though so they're not just going to give him up for a need at center. If the Knicks don't find a fair deal this offseason, they will probably wait up until the trade deadline to get a legit backup C. Let's just hope Mitch lasts until then.

[mpharris36]

Hoopshype says the Knicks are interested in Bertans. Could be worse, but also better.

where is bertans playing...certainly not small ball 5

[R-DAWG]

The Knicks and Nets hadn't made a deal in over 4 decades. That's pretty historic. I wish they could have kept the 2031 pick but, they gave up garbage to get him. He's one of the best two way wings in the league who never misses time. That doesn't come cheap.

I disagree that they gave up garbage. And there are ancillary costs to giving up the amount of future draft capital they gave up.

Sure, the 2 picks they gave up in 2025 are likely to fall in the 20's, which one likely in the high 20's. I'll even give you that the 2027 1st likely falls in the 20's.

But 2028, 2029 and 2031 - those are scary. This team will be older. If it works out well they will have a ton of playoff miles on time. It's more likely that 2 of those picks come back to hurt than 0.

Not to mention, the roster has holes and those holes will become more defined as the roster gets older and more expensive. The paths to patch those holes are very limited.

I see so many similarities to the Derrick Rose Bulls here. That team had a 2 year run as the top seed in the east but wasn't good enough to get past Miami. Then settled in as a mid level playoff team for 3 years. By year 6 they missed the playoffs and started to rebuild. And to jump ahead of this, Rose got hurt and was never the same but they also developed a home grown star in Jimmy Butler.

But break down those rosters:

Rose and Brunson play a similar role
Randle and Boozer are your similar traditional PF, not ideal #2 option but best available guy
They had Deng/Noah whereas we have Bridges/OG
Their Mitchell Robinson was Ronnie Brewer
Our Taj Gibson is Josh Hart
Their Donte DeVincenzo was Kyle Korver
And Omer Asik and Duce McBride round it out

So you are worried that two of the picks may be valuable? I'm pretty sure you have to give up something of value in a trade in order to get something of value back. That's not an over pay. It's the cost of doing business. Comparing the team to a Bulls team from over a decade ago is meaningless. This was an historic trade. It was NOT an historic overpay.

I'm worried about having a team that isn't good enough to win a title that doesn't have any way to upgrade going forward

In terms of the amount of draft assets given up realtive to win NY got back, it's an historic overpay for a 28 year old, 0 time all-star

And the breakdown of the picks/bulls comparison was to the point of the picks we gave up being garbage. They aren't garbage and there were ancillary costs that hurt roster building as a result of said trade.

I like Bridges. I think this team will be very good. I don't think this team is championship level and I think this team is way to expensive in terms of draft capital invested in it and a few years away from being too expensive contract wise for the upside this roster has.

Sure, you have to give to get. But this is way more than that. A reasonable overpay would have been a 2024 1st, both 25 1sts, the 27 1st unprotected and BK's 2025 2nd returned. And NY would have had one more move in their back pocket with a chance to become a real contender, not a maxed out pretender.

But since this isn't an historic overpay - please list the last 5 times a above average role player entering his age 28 seasons with zero all-star apperances was traded for 4 unprotected 1's, a protected 1 and a high 2nd.

In fact - list all players who brought back that much in terms of draft capital. I think the list includes Kevin Durant and Rudy Gobert, the latter considered one of the biggest overpays in NBA history.