Trades and Transactions thread cont - we still need a center

[Capn'O]

It's nice trusting this FO. I hope they have something up their sleeve, but if they decide to head into the season with Mitch backed up by Sims & Achiuwa, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they were continuing to explore the trade market to see who ends up with a Center they don't really need, in case we get a 30-game season from Mitch rather than a 60-game one.

My guess is if they liked any of the remaining options we'd have one. They're working on a trade.

[mpharris36]

It's nice trusting this FO. I hope they have something up their sleeve, but if they decide to head into the season with Mitch backed up by Sims & Achiuwa, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they were continuing to explore the trade market to see who ends up with a Center they don't really need, in case we get a 30-game season from Mitch rather than a 60-game one.

My guess is if they liked any of the remaining options we'd have one. They're working on a trade.

yeah if the plan was just precious we have his bird rights an plenty enough money to pay him. So I think they are exhausting all the S&T possibilities with him or we would have heard something by now.

[Capn'O]

It's nice trusting this FO. I hope they have something up their sleeve, but if they decide to head into the season with Mitch backed up by Sims & Achiuwa, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they were continuing to explore the trade market to see who ends up with a Center they don't really need, in case we get a 30-game season from Mitch rather than a 60-game one.

My guess is if they liked any of the remaining options we'd have one. They're working on a trade.

yeah if the plan was just precious we have his bird rights an plenty enough money to pay him. So I think they are exhausting all the S&T possibilities with him or we would have heard something by now.

Yeah, and if it can't be worked out over the summer we'll resign Precious. The numbers must already be agreed upon as well, otherwise you'd have to figure he'd have signed elsewhere.

[F N 11]

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[cgf]

It's nice trusting this FO. I hope they have something up their sleeve, but if they decide to head into the season with Mitch backed up by Sims & Achiuwa, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they were continuing to explore the trade market to see who ends up with a Center they don't really need, in case we get a 30-game season from Mitch rather than a 60-game one.

My guess is if they liked any of the remaining options we'd have one. They're working on a trade.

yeah if the plan was just precious we have his bird rights an plenty enough money to pay him. So I think they are exhausting all the S&T possibilities with him or we would have heard something by now.

For sure. From all we know about how this FO operates, they explore every option...possible or not...before making their move. So I would expect them to take their time before settling on Precious.

Just saying if they do end up starting the season with what we had sans iHart, I would trust them to continue working on a fallback plan to hedge against Mitch breaking again.

[mpharris36]

My guess is if they liked any of the remaining options we'd have one. They're working on a trade.

yeah if the plan was just precious we have his bird rights an plenty enough money to pay him. So I think they are exhausting all the S&T possibilities with him or we would have heard something by now.

For sure. From all we know about how this FO operates, they explore every option...possible or not...before making their move. So I would expect them to take their time before settling on Precious.

Just saying if they do end up starting the season with what we had sans iHart, I would trust them to continue working on a fallback plan to hedge against Mitch breaking again.

the problem with that is if Mitch does eventually get hurt...we certainly won't be dealing from a position of strength. Currently right now we are looking for a backup and mitch insurance...if he goes down a team just isn't going to hand over a quality big to us.

[moocow007]

Last offseason if you said we could maybe get Kessler for Deuce you’d be called insane.

Anything can happen, but the likely outcome is Deuce will only play 10-15 mpg this year unless many injuries happen again. What will his value be then, especially if he still struggles playing point and guys like Kolek/Rokas or whoever take some of his minutes? Jalen, Donte, and Mikal already are taking most of Deuce’s role and time. He’s a 6’1”, albeit long, SG in the end.

Meanwhile Kessler will probably at least be as good as he was last season, which is still a 23 year old solid starter/great backup center with elite rim protection and rebounding.

If Kessler develops well we can trade Mitch down the line to get more of an offensive center behind him if that’s the concern some have. I just have no more faith that Mitch stays healthy or improves his glaring weaknesses. This is year 7 for him now and we are trying to win it all, not just make the playoffs.

I would bet that Deuce’s value goes down and Kessler’s goes up, mainly from opportunity. Deuce is a good player but easier to replace than Kessler, and the minutes just wont be there for him most likely. Ainge probably thinks the same thing which is why we wont trade. Sometimes you gotta strike when the opportunity arises though.

Agreed. The Knicks are a lot less likely to need Deuce going forward. Between Bridges, Brunson, DDV, Kolek (or another veteran backup PG like Lowry) there's likely not going to be much minutes left for Deuce. Brunson and Bridges are both iron men that you know Thibs will ride big time. With OG and Hart there's not going to be many minutes at SF (as in Bridges playing SF). Deuce will likely end up at the end of the bench. Conversely both Robinson and Randle have proven they have problems staying on the court and avoiding injury and you simply cannot rely on Sims as being the only other C option. Plus Kessler's contract and upside makes him a valuable get considering the current CBA (apron and bird rights) as well as Mitch's impending contract expiration. The Knicks are trying to build a championship caliber team that can be sustained and Kessler's value is much much higher for them than Deuce's. It's why they traded for Bridges and gave up what, on paper, seems like a crazy package. Crazy if you don't consider things like specific value for the Knicks in terms of what they are trying to do, the new apron limiting things, impending contracts, etc. IF they believe that Kessler, under the Knicks/Thibs tutelage can eventually replace Mitch then his value would be a lot higher than Deuce McBride.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I disagree that they gave up garbage. And there are ancillary costs to giving up the amount of future draft capital they gave up.

Sure, the 2 picks they gave up in 2025 are likely to fall in the 20's, which one likely in the high 20's. I'll even give you that the 2027 1st likely falls in the 20's.

But 2028, 2029 and 2031 - those are scary. This team will be older. If it works out well they will have a ton of playoff miles on time. It's more likely that 2 of those picks come back to hurt than 0.

Not to mention, the roster has holes and those holes will become more defined as the roster gets older and more expensive. The paths to patch those holes are very limited.

I see so many similarities to the Derrick Rose Bulls here. That team had a 2 year run as the top seed in the east but wasn't good enough to get past Miami. Then settled in as a mid level playoff team for 3 years. By year 6 they missed the playoffs and started to rebuild. And to jump ahead of this, Rose got hurt and was never the same but they also developed a home grown star in Jimmy Butler.

But break down those rosters:

Rose and Brunson play a similar role
Randle and Boozer are your similar traditional PF, not ideal #2 option but best available guy
They had Deng/Noah whereas we have Bridges/OG
Their Mitchell Robinson was Ronnie Brewer
Our Taj Gibson is Josh Hart
Their Donte DeVincenzo was Kyle Korver
And Omer Asik and Duce McBride round it out

So you are worried that two of the picks may be valuable? I'm pretty sure you have to give up something of value in a trade in order to get something of value back. That's not an over pay. It's the cost of doing business. Comparing the team to a Bulls team from over a decade ago is meaningless. This was an historic trade. It was NOT an historic overpay.

I'm worried about having a team that isn't good enough to win a title that doesn't have any way to upgrade going forward

In terms of the amount of draft assets given up realtive to win NY got back, it's an historic overpay for a 28 year old, 0 time all-star

And the breakdown of the picks/bulls comparison was to the point of the picks we gave up being garbage. They aren't garbage and there were ancillary costs that hurt roster building as a result of said trade.

I like Bridges. I think this team will be very good. I don't think this team is championship level and I think this team is way to expensive in terms of draft capital invested in it and a few years away from being too expensive contract wise for the upside this roster has.

Sure, you have to give to get. But this is way more than that. A reasonable overpay would have been a 2024 1st, both 25 1sts, the 27 1st unprotected and BK's 2025 2nd returned. And NY would have had one more move in their back pocket with a chance to become a real contender, not a maxed out pretender.

But since this isn't an historic overpay - please list the last 5 times a above average role player entering his age 28 seasons with zero all-star apperances was traded for 4 unprotected 1's, a protected 1 and a high 2nd.

In fact - list all players who brought back that much in terms of draft capital. I think the list includes Kevin Durant and Rudy Gobert, the latter considered one of the biggest overpays in NBA history.

You don't think this team is championship level? They were one game away from the ECF without Mitch/OG/Randle and they just added Mikal. They were the 2 seed That's a championship level team.

We gave up garbage PLAYERS and weak picks. The 2031 pick is the only one I have issues with. The team still has picks every other year as well as the protected picks. You can worry about 7 years from now if you want. Most normal people are living in the now and excited about the chances this team has.

The trades you mentioned had TALENT go out with all those picks. We gave up nothing but picks. NOT an historic overpay. An historic trade though. You're just wrong. After 40+ years we made a deal with a crosstown rival for one of the best two way wings in the league. On a cheap deal for a couple more years. A player that several teams were trying to get for over a year. Nitpick all you want. It's not 300 cents on the dollar.

[TrueWarrior]

Cant win with some people.

Kessler did well against Edey yesterday, especially at the end and OT to get the W.

If he dominated, people would say we dont have the assets for him.

If he faltered, people would say not worth trading for.

Edey is a rookie, but he’s only a few months younger than Kessler and is huge with an NBA body already. He was also player of the year for a reason. Kessler did a good job overall, and shut the paint down when it mattered.

Kessler would be better here than he is on the Jazz too. We have much better perimeter defenders and embrace his rim running.

Even if he only becomes White Mitch, Id take that if he can be healthier and hit 60%+ of his free throws, while being 4 years younger on a cheaper contract.

We can always trade Mitch later and have more of a stretch 4/5 behind Kessler.

Posters getting too attached to Deuce. We traded all our other young players, and he is the next to go. Kolek was picked and given a big 2nd round deal for a reason. Plus we have Rokas and other vet options if needed. Mikal and Donte make Deuce a bit redundant on top of that (they only missed 1 game between them last season, knocks on wood). Deuce will not be on this team for long, so prepare yourselves.

[Fury]

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[moocow007]

Cant win with some people.

Kessler did well against Edey yesterday, especially at the end and OT to get the W.

If he dominated, people would say we dont have the assets for him.

If he faltered, people would say not worth trading for.

Edey is a rookie, but he’s only a few months younger than Kessler and is huge with an NBA body already. He was also player of the year for a reason. Kessler did a good job overall, and shut the paint down when it mattered.

Kessler would be better here than he is on the Jazz too. We have much better perimeter defenders and embrace his rim running.

Even if he only becomes White Mitch, Id take that if he can be healthier and hit 60%+ of his free throws, while being 4 years younger on a cheaper contract.

We can always trade Mitch later and have more of a stretch 4/5 behind Kessler.

Posters getting too attached to Deuce. We traded all our other young players, and he is the next to go. Kolek was picked and given a big 2nd round deal for a reason. Plus we have Rokas and other vet options if needed. Mikal and Donte make Deuce a bit redundant on top of that (they only missed 1 game between them last season, knocks on wood). Deuce will not be on this team for long, so prepare yourselves.

Imagine if Deuce has a bad SL game lol.

[Jalen Bluntson]

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Ainge is the worst.

[moocow007]

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Ainge is the worst.

Ainge has the perfect situation. He knows he can take as much time as he needs and no one is going to push him to make moves or question his moves.

[TrueWarrior]

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Depends on the pick protections as Begley said.

Id give up Deuce (or Deuce traded for a 1st) and both our crappy/not real/protected 1sts for Kessler. Technically that would be 3 picks, but not really since the Wash/Det picks probably wont convey.

I doubt the Jazz even do that. If teams are offering 2 firsts now then imagine if Kessler raises his value? Im looking at him as our future starting center, and great current backup, who would solidify our lineup.

Either we’re going for it now or we’re not. I dont see any other better options becoming available.

[GONYK]

My guess is if they liked any of the remaining options we'd have one. They're working on a trade.

yeah if the plan was just precious we have his bird rights an plenty enough money to pay him. So I think they are exhausting all the S&T possibilities with him or we would have heard something by now.

Yeah, and if it can't be worked out over the summer we'll resign Precious. The numbers must already be agreed upon as well, otherwise you'd have to figure he'd have signed elsewhere.

Reportedly, we did the same with Burks, but he wanted to control where he went. So he went to Miami for less money.

[Capn'O]

yeah if the plan was just precious we have his bird rights an plenty enough money to pay him. So I think they are exhausting all the S&T possibilities with him or we would have heard something by now.

Yeah, and if it can't be worked out over the summer we'll resign Precious. The numbers must already be agreed upon as well, otherwise you'd have to figure he'd have signed elsewhere.

Reportedly, we did the same with Burks, but he wanted to control where he went. So he went to Miami for less money.

Well, there's the need/role factor too. If we need Burks this year something has gone quite wrong. In contrast, we're still very thin up front.

[Jalen Bluntson]

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Ainge is the worst.

Ainge has the perfect situation. He knows he can take as much time as he needs and no one is going to push him to make moves or question his moves.

He's a jerkoff. He needs to pick a direction with that team. If he's not gonna rebuild and they aren't winning, the moves he makes will be questioned eventually.

[Besart19]

Watching Kessler on summer league right now vs Edey

Well … ?

5 points, 3 rebounds, 33%fg in 15min at half time

He us trying to lower the asking price for him so he can become a Knicks without hurting our future

[moocow007]

Bertans can be the C version of Steve Novak

Spoiler:

Is that racist?

[Besart19]

Watching Kessler on summer league right now vs Edey

Well … ?

5 points, 3 rebounds, 33%fg in 15min at half time

He us trying to lower the asking price for him so he can become a Knicks without hurting our future