Trades and Transactions thread cont - we still need a center

[WargamesX]

I would still get Kessler if the price is fair.

Apparently fair isn’t just subjective when Ainge is involved it involves him subjugating the other team to his hoarding ways.

[Ghetto Gospel]

i'm gonna be honest, i haven't watched many jazz games but after seeing edey make kessler look like a child with all the marbles on the line, i've seen enough

Read on Twitter

[G_K_F]

You can think the front office is good and still think that not trading a few second + pick #24 to move up to get a center was terrible. Could’ve moved to 21 and gotten DaRon Holmes.

Now you’re left with scraping the bottom of the barrel and hoping Hutporti is decent.

[Ghetto Gospel]

i'm gonna be honest, i haven't watched many jazz games but after seeing edey make kessler look like a child with all the marbles on the line, i've seen enough

Read on Twitter

nba math definitely checks out here

[mpharris36]

disagree on impactful defender. there are plenty of guys that impact the game on the defense end in a more significant way than walker kessler. he's just a slight positive out there on defense.

yes, when he's at the rim and already in position with someone barreling into him he can be very effective but defense is about so much more than that as evidenced by other defensive metrics as well like depm and drapm

I just don't see how you can say he's not an impacful defender...that is where you lose me.



last year was 15th in DEF LEBRON (in what people consider a step back year from him of significant rotation players)



His rookie year he was 5th in the league in DEF LEBRON

call it whatever you want if you don't consider him an impactful defender you might want to recalibrate that position. Look at the names he is up there with...lets just be honest about this...

i'm not an analytics expert. i just googled which the best advanced stat for defensive impact were and it seems DEPM and DRAPM were the consensus. i suppose if you want to use a sort of all-in-one that combined a variety of defensive metrics, the below would have him roughly average among C's, if you filter out the small sample size barely played players

DPM is so volatile though. Jokic is ranked #1 and Sabonis is ranked #6...it seems to reliant on the rest of the roster then the actual players impact.

Luka is top 15, Donovan Mitchell is up there. It just doesn't pass the eye test. I know with any analytic you will always have outliers. But too many there to say DPM should be weighed heavily when evaluating a players defensive impact.

[Ghetto Gospel]

I just don't see how you can say he's not an impacful defender...that is where you lose me.



last year was 15th in DEF LEBRON (in what people consider a step back year from him of significant rotation players)



His rookie year he was 5th in the league in DEF LEBRON

call it whatever you want if you don't consider him an impactful defender you might want to recalibrate that position. Look at the names he is up there with...lets just be honest about this...

i'm not an analytics expert. i just googled which the best advanced stat for defensive impact were and it seems DEPM and DRAPM were the consensus. i suppose if you want to use a sort of all-in-one that combined a variety of defensive metrics, the below would have him roughly average among C's, if you filter out the small sample size barely played players

DPM is so volatile though. Jokic is ranked #1 and Sabonis is ranked #6...it seems to reliant on the rest of the roster then the actual players impact.

Luka is top 15, Donovan Mitchell is up there. It just doesn't pass the eye test. I know with any analytic you will always have outliers. But too many there to say DPM should be weighed heavily when evaluating a players defensive impact.

yeah admittedly, idk what the good advanced defensive stats are but if you aggregate them, the plurality of them seem to point towards kessler being a slight positive on defense which is going to be the opinion that i have.

the eye test, i haven't watched many jazz games so i don't know, but i watched edey vs kessler last night and he made him look like a child. yeah 1 game and kessler had a few moments but if edey was moving kessler like that, imagine what embiid will do to him

[DOT]

i'm gonna be honest, i haven't watched many jazz games but after seeing edey make kessler look like a child with all the marbles on the line, i've seen enough

Read on Twitter

nba math definitely checks out here

That's from 2 years ago, Embiid didn't play against the Jazz this year

And in those 2 games 2 years ago, he was 8-16 against Kessler, 2-3 from the line (20 points on .577 TS) in a season where he averaged 33.1 points on .655 TS.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203954/head-to-head?Matchup=Offense&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=MATCHUP_PLAYER_NAME

I'd say that's not too bad for a rookie, but whatever narrative you're trying to argue, it's clear you won't let facts get in the way.

[mpharris36]

Take this with a grain of salt...CP from KnicksFanTV says knicks still want KAT. Don't shoot the messenger...just was listening to his live stream while working and he seemed pretty adamant...more adamant then I have ever heard him.

Says the knicks wont risk losing Randle for nothing especially since they are offering Brunson an extension...and Randle is extension eligible this year as well. Big tell if they don't offer him an extension.

Obviously Randle + Mitch pretty much work financially...but I don't know how to feel. Offensively the floor would be spaced like crazy and you could have death lineups like Brunson/DD/Mikal/OG/KAT...that would basically be what BOS can put out there on a nightly basis in terms of 5 elite shooters.

Just something to keep an eye on...but gain of salt obviously.

[Ghetto Gospel]

i'm gonna be honest, i haven't watched many jazz games but after seeing edey make kessler look like a child with all the marbles on the line, i've seen enough

Read on Twitter

nba math definitely checks out here

That's from 2 years ago, Embiid didn't play against the Jazz this year

And in those 2 games 2 years ago, he was 8-16 against Kessler, 2-3 from the line (20 points on .577 TS) in a season where he averaged 33.1 points on .655 TS.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203954/head-to-head?Matchup=Offense&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=MATCHUP_PLAYER_NAME

I'd say that's not too bad for a rookie, but whatever narrative you're trying to argue, it's clear you won't let facts get in the way.

so in the 11 matchup minutes that i see here that kessler guarded embiid, embiid put up 20? okay i guess those are the facts.

watching what edey did to kessler last night, i don't see the strength improvement he needs to guard embiid effectively.

[mpharris36]

i'm not an analytics expert. i just googled which the best advanced stat for defensive impact were and it seems DEPM and DRAPM were the consensus. i suppose if you want to use a sort of all-in-one that combined a variety of defensive metrics, the below would have him roughly average among C's, if you filter out the small sample size barely played players

DPM is so volatile though. Jokic is ranked #1 and Sabonis is ranked #6...it seems to reliant on the rest of the roster then the actual players impact.

Luka is top 15, Donovan Mitchell is up there. It just doesn't pass the eye test. I know with any analytic you will always have outliers. But too many there to say DPM should be weighed heavily when evaluating a players defensive impact.

yeah admittedly, idk what the good advanced defensive stats are but if you aggregate them, the plurality of them seem to point towards kessler being a slight positive on defense which is going to be the opinion that i have.

the eye test, i haven't watched many jazz games so i don't know, but i watched edey vs kessler last night and he made him look like a child. yeah 1 game and kessler had a few moments but if edey was moving kessler like that, imagine what embiid will do to him

Its one game and I thought he held his own. People saying he looked like a child. He finished with 5 blocks and late in the game he was shutting down the paint. To have that as our backup?

Also Edey isn't a bum...he's 7'4 300 lbs...he outweighs Kessler by like 60 lbs...this isn't some raw rookie he was going up against. He's was the b2b college player of the year and was a lottery pick and is a massive human.

[Richard4444]

You can think the front office is good and still think that not trading a few second + pick #24 to move up to get a center was terrible. Could’ve moved to 21 and gotten DaRon Holmes.

Now you’re left with scraping the bottom of the barrel and hoping Hutporti is decent.

We are criticizing a third-year center who was third in his rookie class (Kessler).

How are the odds that an undersize rookie outside the lottery can have a great role in Thibs rotation (Holmes)?

[DOT]

nba math definitely checks out here

That's from 2 years ago, Embiid didn't play against the Jazz this year

And in those 2 games 2 years ago, he was 8-16 against Kessler, 2-3 from the line (20 points on .577 TS) in a season where he averaged 33.1 points on .655 TS.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203954/head-to-head?Matchup=Offense&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=MATCHUP_PLAYER_NAME

I'd say that's not too bad for a rookie, but whatever narrative you're trying to argue, it's clear you won't let facts get in the way.

so in the 11 matchup minutes that i see here that kessler guarded embiid, embiid put up 20? okay i guess those are the facts.

watching what edey did to kessler last night, i don't see the strength improvement he needs to guard embiid effectively.

Like I said

It doesn't matter what the facts are, you're just looking to confirm what you want to hear

I don't think he's an Embiid stopper. I've never claimed that. I was just pointing out the flaw of you going "EMBIID PUT UP 44.5 PPG AGAINST JAZZ, KESSLER BAD DEFENSE" thing. Cause that means in the non-Kessler minutes, Embiid put up 69 points on 20-30 shooting, 28-34 from the line, for .767 TS

So vs Kessler as a rookie he put up 20 points on .577 TS, vs every non-Kessler Jazz he put up a combined 69 on .767 TS

But yeah. Embiid put up 44.5 ppg against the Jazz, therefore Kessler sucks at defense actually.

[mpharris36]

nba math definitely checks out here

That's from 2 years ago, Embiid didn't play against the Jazz this year

And in those 2 games 2 years ago, he was 8-16 against Kessler, 2-3 from the line (20 points on .577 TS) in a season where he averaged 33.1 points on .655 TS.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203954/head-to-head?Matchup=Offense&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=MATCHUP_PLAYER_NAME

I'd say that's not too bad for a rookie, but whatever narrative you're trying to argue, it's clear you won't let facts get in the way.

so in the 11 matchup minutes that i see here that kessler guarded embiid, embiid put up 20? okay i guess those are the facts.

watching what edey did to kessler last night, i don't see the strength improvement he needs to guard embiid effectively.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but matchup minutes are shot clock seconds when a player has the ball. Its not like he put up 20 pts in basically 1 qtr of player.

Just look at the other players on the list for reference...for a Rookie those are impressive against MVP Embiid.

[sol537]

Lock up Precious as insurance and then take a wait-and-see approach for an upgrade at Center to shake free from now until the Feb '25 trade deadline. Someone in the 23-28 year old range with untapped upside will shake free. They always do...

[Ghetto Gospel]

DPM is so volatile though. Jokic is ranked #1 and Sabonis is ranked #6...it seems to reliant on the rest of the roster then the actual players impact.

Luka is top 15, Donovan Mitchell is up there. It just doesn't pass the eye test. I know with any analytic you will always have outliers. But too many there to say DPM should be weighed heavily when evaluating a players defensive impact.

yeah admittedly, idk what the good advanced defensive stats are but if you aggregate them, the plurality of them seem to point towards kessler being a slight positive on defense which is going to be the opinion that i have.

the eye test, i haven't watched many jazz games so i don't know, but i watched edey vs kessler last night and he made him look like a child. yeah 1 game and kessler had a few moments but if edey was moving kessler like that, imagine what embiid will do to him

Its one game and I thought he held his own. People saying he looked like a child. He finished with 5 blocks and late in the game he was shutting down the paint. To have that as our backup?

Also Edey isn't a bum...he's 7'4 300 lbs...he outweighs Kessler by like 60 lbs...this isn't some raw rookie he was going up against. He's was the b2b college player of the year and was a lottery pick and is a massive human.

and he's going to play against massive humans, its the nba. he showed me he was soft that game

[DOT]

That's from 2 years ago, Embiid didn't play against the Jazz this year

And in those 2 games 2 years ago, he was 8-16 against Kessler, 2-3 from the line (20 points on .577 TS) in a season where he averaged 33.1 points on .655 TS.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203954/head-to-head?Matchup=Offense&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=MATCHUP_PLAYER_NAME

I'd say that's not too bad for a rookie, but whatever narrative you're trying to argue, it's clear you won't let facts get in the way.

so in the 11 matchup minutes that i see here that kessler guarded embiid, embiid put up 20? okay i guess those are the facts.

watching what edey did to kessler last night, i don't see the strength improvement he needs to guard embiid effectively.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but matchup minutes are shot clock seconds when a player has the ball. Its not like he put up 20 pts in basically 1 qtr of player.

Just look at the other players on the list for reference...for a Rookie those are impressive against MVP Embiid.

Dunno, but he was 20th in total possessions guarding Embiid and 31st in points against

Also that same year Embiid put up 26 points on 9-13 shooting, 8-11 from the line in 7.5 minutes vs iHart and 22 points on 10-20 shooting, 1-2 from the line in 10 minutes vs Mitch.

[Ghetto Gospel]

That's from 2 years ago, Embiid didn't play against the Jazz this year

And in those 2 games 2 years ago, he was 8-16 against Kessler, 2-3 from the line (20 points on .577 TS) in a season where he averaged 33.1 points on .655 TS.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203954/head-to-head?Matchup=Offense&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=MATCHUP_PLAYER_NAME

I'd say that's not too bad for a rookie, but whatever narrative you're trying to argue, it's clear you won't let facts get in the way.

so in the 11 matchup minutes that i see here that kessler guarded embiid, embiid put up 20? okay i guess those are the facts.

watching what edey did to kessler last night, i don't see the strength improvement he needs to guard embiid effectively.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but matchup minutes are shot clock seconds when a player has the ball. Its not like he put up 20 pts in basically 1 qtr of player.

Just look at the other players on the list for reference...for a Rookie those are impressive against MVP Embiid.

personally, i think matchup stats don't even make sense most of the time. like when you look at jokic's matchup stats, his highest matchup minute-wise is alperen sengun, and that's 40 minutes? he's only guarded by sengun 40 minutes in 4 games? makes no sense. it isn't accounting for a lot of time

[mpharris36]

yeah admittedly, idk what the good advanced defensive stats are but if you aggregate them, the plurality of them seem to point towards kessler being a slight positive on defense which is going to be the opinion that i have.

the eye test, i haven't watched many jazz games so i don't know, but i watched edey vs kessler last night and he made him look like a child. yeah 1 game and kessler had a few moments but if edey was moving kessler like that, imagine what embiid will do to him

Its one game and I thought he held his own. People saying he looked like a child. He finished with 5 blocks and late in the game he was shutting down the paint. To have that as our backup?

Also Edey isn't a bum...he's 7'4 300 lbs...he outweighs Kessler by like 60 lbs...this isn't some raw rookie he was going up against. He's was the b2b college player of the year and was a lottery pick and is a massive human.

and he's going to play against massive humans, its the nba. he showed me he was soft that game

come on man...Edey is legit the biggest player currently in the NBA. He's legit the only 300lber in the NBA....

[DOT]

so in the 11 matchup minutes that i see here that kessler guarded embiid, embiid put up 20? okay i guess those are the facts.

watching what edey did to kessler last night, i don't see the strength improvement he needs to guard embiid effectively.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but matchup minutes are shot clock seconds when a player has the ball. Its not like he put up 20 pts in basically 1 qtr of player.

Just look at the other players on the list for reference...for a Rookie those are impressive against MVP Embiid.

personally, i think matchup stats don't even make sense most of the time. like when you look at jokic's matchup stats, his highest matchup minute-wise is alperen sengun, and that's 39 minutes? he's only guarded by sengun 40 minutes in 4 games? makes no sense. it isn't accounting for a lot of time

"Now that this stat doesn't prove me right, actually I don't like it"

Classic

[Ghetto Gospel]

That's from 2 years ago, Embiid didn't play against the Jazz this year

And in those 2 games 2 years ago, he was 8-16 against Kessler, 2-3 from the line (20 points on .577 TS) in a season where he averaged 33.1 points on .655 TS.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203954/head-to-head?Matchup=Offense&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=MATCHUP_PLAYER_NAME

I'd say that's not too bad for a rookie, but whatever narrative you're trying to argue, it's clear you won't let facts get in the way.

so in the 11 matchup minutes that i see here that kessler guarded embiid, embiid put up 20? okay i guess those are the facts.

watching what edey did to kessler last night, i don't see the strength improvement he needs to guard embiid effectively.

Like I said

It doesn't matter what the facts are, you're just looking to confirm what you want to hear

I don't think he's an Embiid stopper. I've never claimed that. I was just pointing out the flaw of you going "EMBIID PUT UP 44.5 PPG AGAINST JAZZ, KESSLER BAD DEFENSE" thing. Cause that means in the non-Kessler minutes, Embiid put up 69 points on 20-30 shooting, 28-34 from the line, for .767 TS

So vs Kessler as a rookie he put up 20 points on .577 TS, vs every non-Kessler Jazz he put up a combined 69 on .767 TS

But yeah. Embiid put up 44.5 ppg against the Jazz, therefore Kessler sucks at defense actually.

i never said you claimed anything..?

where are the 69 points on 20-30 shooting accounted for in the matchup stats.