An early summer 2024 thread

[madmaxmedia]

The Clippers keep their draft pick if they have a better record than the Rockets. If the Clippers have a worse record than the Rockets (or they are both in the lottery and the Clippers move up), then the Clippers get OKC's pick which would be somewhere in the 27-30 range based on last season's outcome.

I didn't know that- it won't be the end all be all of the season but is a significant bench mark we can hopefully reach...

In the last decade or three, NOT ONE of our "young guys" ever went elsewhere and thrived except for Shai, who was already thriving and was the CENTERPIECE of the PG deal. SRP T-Mann is a solid but middling pro; we fleeced the Lakers of seldom-used Zubac who's just a cut above middling.

The other guy that did surprise for us was Amir Coffey- from early on he was actually able to play for short stretches and not bleed points. He never particularly stood out in any way, but he could at least achieve some competency on an NBA court early on which is a great success for a UDFA.

Hey look, people remember these guys fondly, but they never even won 40 games. And our G-Leaguers don't even belong on the same court with guys like this.



https://www.gq.com/story/darius-miles-quentin-richardson-clippers-knuckleheads-interview

The 2000/2001 Clippers were one of my favorite Clipper squads. They won 31 games with a bunch of guys not even of legal drinking age, and IIRC played .500 ball after the ASB. None turned out to be great or transcendent players, but quite a few had solid NBA careers. That this squad was able to reasonably compete thrown into the deep end with a really young rotation was really impressive.We traded for EB after the season and should have had better success, but Lamar got suspended for pot, we traded Darius the year after, and that squad gradually morphed into other things.

But yeah, none of our young guys are like those players. This team was super raw, but their athleticism stood out and allowed them to compete (to the extent that they did.)

The 2000 team also gave us this all-time play, in a late season win against the 55-27 Kings-

Watch on YouTube

[clipperlover]

I am sure Jay Scrubb is available. Wasn't he going to be that next Clipper young player?

Young players are a crapshoot. Always have been. I remember people not wanting to part with Maggette and Livingston for Paul Pierce in the mid 2000s.

Clippers aren't worried about next year from an on the court standpoint. They are trying to cut their luxury tax bill and not get screwed under the new rules. The players on the court are not the draw next season. The Intuit Dome is the draw. They have people locked in to Season Tickets and they have been announced as the basketball venue for the 2028 Olympics. Ballmer is likely banking on the new stadium and facilities to be a HUGE draw for potential free agents next year and beyond. So, maintaining flexibility this year helps get him a big fish in the future. Clips have $0 in salary commitments for the 27/28 season and only 4 players for 26/27 (Luka has a player option that year).

[Bobbymcgee]

The Clippers keep their draft pick if they have a better record than the Rockets. If the Clippers have a worse record than the Rockets (or they are both in the lottery and the Clippers move up), then the Clippers get OKC's pick which would be somewhere in the 27-30 range based on last season's outcome.

So the Clippers can't go total "youth movement" trying to develop guys who have no superstar potential and for the most part all the young guys except for their 2nd round picks who none have shown high level ability are who they are. They have to balance being better than Houston and development. It could mean the difference between an 18th pick and the 28th pick, that's a big deal.

Clippers do still need to win this season, it's actually beneficial. But developing talent does not mean you just throw out lineups of all the young players lol.

Developing talent means giving young guys solid consistent roles. Don't know why people seem to think of it as some all or nothing.

Okay, the draft pick situation makes sense, I think lol. So, the Clippers essentially need to play the vets this upcoming season in order to finish with a better record than Houston in order to have a lower draft pick and that will entice OKC to then choose Houston's draft pick instead of the Clippers pick. Unless Houston's draft pick ends up being 1 thru 10. Then it is all a moot point because their pick is protected for top 10. So, we also need to root for Houston to also have a good season, just not a better record than the Clippers?

Source: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

[og15]

The Clippers keep their draft pick if they have a better record than the Rockets. If the Clippers have a worse record than the Rockets (or they are both in the lottery and the Clippers move up), then the Clippers get OKC's pick which would be somewhere in the 27-30 range based on last season's outcome.

So the Clippers can't go total "youth movement" trying to develop guys who have no superstar potential and for the most part all the young guys except for their 2nd round picks who none have shown high level ability are who they are. They have to balance being better than Houston and development. It could mean the difference between an 18th pick and the 28th pick, that's a big deal.

Clippers do still need to win this season, it's actually beneficial. But developing talent does not mean you just throw out lineups of all the young players lol.

Developing talent means giving young guys solid consistent roles. Don't know why people seem to think of it as some all or nothing.

Okay, the draft pick situation makes sense, I think lol. So, the Clippers essentially need to play the vets this upcoming season in order to finish with a better record than Houston in order to have a lower draft pick and that will entice OKC to then choose Houston's draft pick instead of the Clippers pick. Unless Houston's draft pick ends up being 1 thru 10. Then it is all a moot point because their pick is protected for top 10. So, we also need to root for Houston to also have a good season, just not a better record than the Clippers?

Source: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Yup, exactly, those pick swaps

[Clemenza]

No one over 22 played more than 1000 minutes on the Pistons, so they are a good example of a team going very young and sucking, but they also have no amazing young talent.

They had Burks and Bogie, but they both played around 900 minutes and 28/43 games respectively, so they couldn't actually have much impact on the teams record or success. Simone played under 500 minutes and less than 20 games.

The Clippers keep their draft pick if they have a better record than the Rockets. If the Clippers have a worse record than the Rockets (or they are both in the lottery and the Clippers move up), then the Clippers get OKC's pick which would be somewhere in the 27-30 range based on last season's outcome.

So the Clippers can't go total "youth movement" trying to develop guys who have no superstar potential and for the most part all the young guys except for their 2nd round picks who none have shown high level ability are who they are. They have to balance being better than Houston and development. It could mean the difference between an 18th pick and the 28th pick, that's a big deal.

Clippers do still need to win this season, it's actually beneficial. But developing talent does not mean you just throw out lineups of all the young players lol.

Developing talent means giving young guys solid consistent roles. Don't know why people seem to think of it as some all or nothing.

I think people get misconstrued about a "youth movement" around these parts. We still have Harden, Kawhi(?),Zu, Mann, Norm, Batum, Bones, Mo Bamba, etc. And that's more than enough vets. Really we're just looking for some signs of life from 2-3 players out of Kobe, Jordan Miller, Cam Christie, Flowers, Amari Bailey, and possibly Kai Jones. The uproar and screaming from a mountain top around here when it comes to playing or mixing some young guys into the 2nd unit or sparingly is so hyperbolic and outrageous its comical. Definitely need to capitalize on the new "Rockets loophole" but the youngsters getting a look is squarely on these latest Kawhi developments that don't sound too rosy at all. Also just playing vets only when you're not utilizing Zu more on offense, wearing Harden into the ground, Mann & Coffey not shooting open jumpers, Norm foul hunting on offense, etc. won't get us many wins either even if it is an all vet thing.

[nickhx2]

yeah, i think it's pure myopia to think youngsters shouldn't get any playtime on a roster full of vets vying as contenders (and i don't think we're even that, anymore).

the whole idea of rookies/youngsters being less reliable than WORTHLESS TRASH pretty much last made its major mark (in my mind) with larry brown/doc rivers - and the former ran out his welcome pretty much every place he set foot in, and the latter continues to prove he is worth the majority of derision he has been receiving in recent years. building up and capturing every bit of progress you can from your players is the clear way to optimize and maximize any team's chances at success. coaches who lack that vision are really just committing a form of sabotage on the team they're trying to win with. i think most modern teams these days try to engage their younger guys to some extent, though i think lue has not been good with it at all.

like, i mean, one thing pop started to do a while back was integrate his younger guys when opportunity arose, despite lineups featuring a really old core for several years. it was intentional and benefited them a lot when he was able to play them meaningful minutes in meaningful games. and i think after that, more and more coaches started to do it. i think it's clear balancing youth with vets is the right song, all things considered.

[Roscoe Sheed]

yeah, i think it's pure myopia to think youngsters shouldn't get any playtime on a roster full of vets vying as contenders (and i don't think we're even that, anymore).

the whole idea of rookies/youngsters being less reliable than WORTHLESS TRASH pretty much last made its major mark (in my mind) with larry brown/doc rivers - and the former ran out his welcome pretty much every place he set foot in, and the latter continues to prove he is worth the majority of derision he has been receiving in recent years. building up and capturing every bit of progress you can from your players is the clear way to optimize and maximize any team's chances at success. coaches who lack that vision are really just committing a form of sabotage on the team they're trying to win with. i think most modern teams these days try to engage their younger guys to some extent, though i think lue has not been good with it at all.

like, i mean, one thing pop started to do a while back was integrate his younger guys when opportunity arose, despite lineups featuring a really old core for several years. it was intentional and benefited them a lot when he was able to play them meaningful minutes in meaningful games. and i think after that, more and more coaches started to do it. i think it's clear balancing youth with vets is the right song, all things considered.

I agree- it is important to give young players the chance to develop. Untapped talent may never be identified in some circumstances.

However, I must say that Larry Brown was one of the best in game coaches I’ve ever seen- a total mastermind- much better than Doc. However, he did have too much wanderlust and had little patience for the mistakes young players make

[Roscoe Sheed]

I didn’t get a chance to watch the whole episode, but the latest edition of clips n dip on YouTube mentioned trading for Zach lavine. I’d be interested if the asking price isn’t too high and if they can get a draft pick in the trade.

I’d also be interested in exploring a trade for Ingram. We have to assume that Kawhi is going to have problems with his right knee and they are going to need players to make up for his absence- somebody is going to have to score outside of Harden, Powell, and kpj

[esqtvd]

No one over 22 played more than 1000 minutes on the Pistons, so they are a good example of a team going very young and sucking, but they also have no amazing young talent.

They had Burks and Bogie, but they both played around 900 minutes and 28/43 games respectively, so they couldn't actually have much impact on the teams record or success. Simone played under 500 minutes and less than 20 games.

The Clippers keep their draft pick if they have a better record than the Rockets. If the Clippers have a worse record than the Rockets (or they are both in the lottery and the Clippers move up), then the Clippers get OKC's pick which would be somewhere in the 27-30 range based on last season's outcome.

So the Clippers can't go total "youth movement" trying to develop guys who have no superstar potential and for the most part all the young guys except for their 2nd round picks who none have shown high level ability are who they are. They have to balance being better than Houston and development. It could mean the difference between an 18th pick and the 28th pick, that's a big deal.

Clippers do still need to win this season, it's actually beneficial. But developing talent does not mean you just throw out lineups of all the young players lol.

Developing talent means giving young guys solid consistent roles. Don't know why people seem to think of it as some all or nothing.

I think people get misconstrued about a "youth movement" around these parts. We still have Harden, Kawhi(?),Zu, Mann, Norm, Batum, Bones, Mo Bamba, etc. And that's more than enough vets. Really we're just looking for some signs of life from 2-3 players out of Kobe, Jordan Miller, Cam Christie, Flowers, Amari Bailey, and possibly Kai Jones. The uproar and screaming from a mountain top around here when it comes to playing or mixing some young guys into the 2nd unit or sparingly is so hyperbolic and outrageous its comical. Definitely need to capitalize on the new "Rockets loophole" but the youngsters getting a look is squarely on these latest Kawhi developments that don't sound too rosy at all. Also just playing vets only when you're not utilizing Zu more on offense, wearing Harden into the ground, Mann & Coffey not shooting open jumpers, Norm foul hunting on offense, etc. won't get us many wins either even if it is an all vet thing.

No idea what you're talking about and certainly not responsive to anything I wrote. Young players who earn PT get it. For the umpteenth time, it's not as if any of our young "talent" was thwarted here under ANY coach over the years then went on to thrive elsewhere.

Sorry--Kobe appeared in over half our games, got 400 NBA minutes and did nothing.

PER 36: 8.1 pts, 5.7 rebs, 41% FG, 29% 3-pt, 6.1 fouls

And he turns 25 on January 1. He's not even young anymore.

[wco81]

Zach Lowe again goes in on the Clippers front office and Ballmer.

Said they should have given PG the fourth year and deal with it later.

Says they insulted PG with Immanuel Quigley money with the initial offer. Wouldn't give PG the same money and terms as KL, except he wanted a NTC on top, because he was worried about getting Blake'd.

Says are the Clippers going to replace PG with a bunch of role players and finish #12 in the West? Emphasized that they need to have a good record this upcoming season because their 2025 pick could be subject to a swap.

[KL2]

Lowe seems to have it out for us the same way SAS has it for Leonard. It’s just bizarre.

The same guys criticizing us for letting PG go would be the first in line to drag us if we signed him to what he was asking for.

I’m the most impatient one here. I’d love to see the finished roster right now. But even I understand there’s a lot of time between now and training camp for the team to make more moves.

[esqtvd]

Lowe seems to have it out for us the same way SAS has it for Leonard. It’s just bizarre.

The same guys criticizing us for letting PG go would be the first in line to drag us if we signed him to what he was asking for.

I’m the most impatient one here. I’d love to see the finished roster right now. But even I understand there’s a lot of time between now and training camp for the team to make more moves.

Yes, for instance, besides Kawhi, KJP is key. He's signed but we can't be sure what we're getting. Could be a shadow of his former rising star self or a 20 ppg starter, in which case a lot of dominoes [especially Mann] will tumble into place.

[nickhx2]

Zach Lowe again goes in on the Clippers front office and Ballmer.

Said they should have given PG the fourth year and deal with it later.

Says they insulted PG with Immanuel Quigley money with the initial offer. Wouldn't give PG the same money and terms as KL, except he wanted a NTC on top, because he was worried about getting Blake'd.

Says are the Clippers going to replace PG with a bunch of role players and finish #12 in the West? Emphasized that they need to have a good record this upcoming season because their 2025 pick could be subject to a swap.

i respect and trust lowe's basketball opinions far more than i'd ever trust my own, and he was one of my favorite writers (before he went behind the paywall)

but...

if this is his criticism then i am kinda shocked. PG showed us year after year, and big game after big game that he's not the dude you can trust when the stakes get higher and higher. there are TONS of players who play really well until those stakes rise and the anxiety becomes too much to deal with. and there are the rare ones whose games get tougher as the challenges get tougher. and paul george is the former, through and through.

like, the fans had enough of that and obviously very clearly the team did, too. and despite me being someone who values modern analytics as the foremost tool of telling us what goes on, on a basketball court, there's a resilience factor in any competitor that's not really quantifiable, and is only observable through our repeat experiences of seeing what we see on the court.

and he doesn't have that, and he's gone, and i think if feedback informs us of anything, the overall lack of lament at his departure should say something. and i think lowe doesn't get that or see that, at all.

[Clemenza]

No one over 22 played more than 1000 minutes on the Pistons, so they are a good example of a team going very young and sucking, but they also have no amazing young talent.

They had Burks and Bogie, but they both played around 900 minutes and 28/43 games respectively, so they couldn't actually have much impact on the teams record or success. Simone played under 500 minutes and less than 20 games.

The Clippers keep their draft pick if they have a better record than the Rockets. If the Clippers have a worse record than the Rockets (or they are both in the lottery and the Clippers move up), then the Clippers get OKC's pick which would be somewhere in the 27-30 range based on last season's outcome.

So the Clippers can't go total "youth movement" trying to develop guys who have no superstar potential and for the most part all the young guys except for their 2nd round picks who none have shown high level ability are who they are. They have to balance being better than Houston and development. It could mean the difference between an 18th pick and the 28th pick, that's a big deal.

Clippers do still need to win this season, it's actually beneficial. But developing talent does not mean you just throw out lineups of all the young players lol.

Developing talent means giving young guys solid consistent roles. Don't know why people seem to think of it as some all or nothing.

I think people get misconstrued about a "youth movement" around these parts. We still have Harden, Kawhi(?),Zu, Mann, Norm, Batum, Bones, Mo Bamba, etc. And that's more than enough vets. Really we're just looking for some signs of life from 2-3 players out of Kobe, Jordan Miller, Cam Christie, Flowers, Amari Bailey, and possibly Kai Jones. The uproar and screaming from a mountain top around here when it comes to playing or mixing some young guys into the 2nd unit or sparingly is so hyperbolic and outrageous its comical. Definitely need to capitalize on the new "Rockets loophole" but the youngsters getting a look is squarely on these latest Kawhi developments that don't sound too rosy at all. Also just playing vets only when you're not utilizing Zu more on offense, wearing Harden into the ground, Mann & Coffey not shooting open jumpers, Norm foul hunting on offense, etc. won't get us many wins either even if it is an all vet thing.

No idea what you're talking about and certainly not responsive to anything I wrote. Young players who earn PT get it. For the umpteenth time, it's not as if any of our young "talent" was thwarted here under ANY coach over the years then went on to thrive elsewhere.

Sorry--Kobe appeared in over half our games, got 400 NBA minutes and did nothing.

PER 36: 8.1 pts, 5.7 rebs, 41% FG, 29% 3-pt, 6.1 fouls

And he turns 25 on January 1. He's not even young anymore.

Blah, blah, blah.. Keep typing. PJ Tucker ruined his rookie season. But anyways, the youth movement is still coming and there's nothing you can do about it but watch like the rest of us. Enjoy

[esqtvd]

I think people get misconstrued about a "youth movement" around these parts. We still have Harden, Kawhi(?),Zu, Mann, Norm, Batum, Bones, Mo Bamba, etc. And that's more than enough vets. Really we're just looking for some signs of life from 2-3 players out of Kobe, Jordan Miller, Cam Christie, Flowers, Amari Bailey, and possibly Kai Jones. The uproar and screaming from a mountain top around here when it comes to playing or mixing some young guys into the 2nd unit or sparingly is so hyperbolic and outrageous its comical. Definitely need to capitalize on the new "Rockets loophole" but the youngsters getting a look is squarely on these latest Kawhi developments that don't sound too rosy at all. Also just playing vets only when you're not utilizing Zu more on offense, wearing Harden into the ground, Mann & Coffey not shooting open jumpers, Norm foul hunting on offense, etc. won't get us many wins either even if it is an all vet thing.

No idea what you're talking about and certainly not responsive to anything I wrote. Young players who earn PT get it. For the umpteenth time, it's not as if any of our young "talent" was thwarted here under ANY coach over the years then went on to thrive elsewhere.

Sorry--Kobe appeared in over half our games, got 400 NBA minutes and did nothing.

PER 36: 8.1 pts, 5.7 rebs, 41% FG, 29% 3-pt, 6.1 fouls

And he turns 25 on January 1. He's not even young anymore.

Blah, blah, blah.. Keep typing. PJ Tucker ruined his rookie season. But anyways, the youth movement is still coming and there's nothing you can do about it but watch like the rest of us. Enjoy

Easy there Mike Smith lol


PJ ruined nothing
come at me with your facts not saying blahblahblah

Sorry--Kobe appeared in over half our games, got 400 NBA minutes and did nothing.

PER 36: 8.1 pts, 5.7 rebs, 41% FG, 29% 3-pt, 6.1 fouls

And he turns 25 on January 1. He's not even young anymore.

Kobe will be playing for the Tel Aviv Maccabees if he doesn't pull a rabbit out of his hat damn quick. That's the fact.

[esqtvd]

I am sure Jay Scrubb is available. Wasn't he going to be that next Clipper young player?

Young players are a crapshoot. Always have been. I remember people not wanting to part with Maggette and Livingston for Paul Pierce in the mid 2000s.

Clippers aren't worried about next year from an on the court standpoint. They are trying to cut their luxury tax bill and not get screwed under the new rules. The players on the court are not the draw next season. The Intuit Dome is the draw. They have people locked in to Season Tickets and they have been announced as the basketball venue for the 2028 Olympics. Ballmer is likely banking on the new stadium and facilities to be a HUGE draw for potential free agents next year and beyond. So, maintaining flexibility this year helps get him a big fish in the future. Clips have $0 in salary commitments for the 27/28 season and only 4 players for 26/27 (Luka has a player option that year).

Exactly. Ballmer still thinks this will be a FA destination. And it better be because the chance of getting a cornerstone difference-maker in the draft [especially with pick swaps] is close to nil.

Remember Keon Johnson? He's only 22 and is already on his 4th team, fighting for a two-way.

July 29, 2021: Drafted by the New York Knicks in the 1st round (21st pick) of the 2021 NBA Draft.

July 30, 2021: Traded by the New York Knicks to the Los Angeles Clippers for Quentin Grimes and a 2024 2nd round draft pick (Jonathan Mogbo was later selected). 2024 2nd-rd pick is DET own

August 6, 2021: Signed a multi-year contract with the Los Angeles Clippers.

February 4, 2022: Traded by the Los Angeles Clippers with Eric Bledsoe, Justise Winslow and a 2025 2nd round draft pick to the Portland Trail Blazers for Robert Covington and Norman Powell.

September 27, 2023: As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the Portland Trail Blazers with Nassir Little and Jusuf Nurkic to the Phoenix Suns

October 23, 2023: Waived by the Phoenix Suns.

November 1, 2023: Signed a two-way contract with the Brooklyn Nets.

[Captain Ballmer]

Zach Lowe again goes in on the Clippers front office and Ballmer.

Said they should have given PG the fourth year and deal with it later.

Says they insulted PG with Immanuel Quigley money with the initial offer. Wouldn't give PG the same money and terms as KL, except he wanted a NTC on top, because he was worried about getting Blake'd.

Says are the Clippers going to replace PG with a bunch of role players and finish #12 in the West? Emphasized that they need to have a good record this upcoming season because their 2025 pick could be subject to a swap.

i respect and trust lowe's basketball opinions far more than i'd ever trust my own, and he was one of my favorite writers (before he went behind the paywall)

but...

if this is his criticism then i am kinda shocked. PG showed us year after year, and big game after big game that he's not the dude you can trust when the stakes get higher and higher. there are TONS of players who play really well until those stakes rise and the anxiety becomes too much to deal with. and there are the rare ones whose games get tougher as the challenges get tougher. and paul george is the former, through and through.

like, the fans had enough of that and obviously very clearly the team did, too. and despite me being someone who values modern analytics as the foremost tool of telling us what goes on, on a basketball court, there's a resilience factor in any competitor that's not really quantifiable, and is only observable through our repeat experiences of seeing what we see on the court.

and he doesn't have that, and he's gone, and i think if feedback informs us of anything, the overall lack of lament at his departure should say something. and i think lowe doesn't get that or see that, at all.

Also, it is absurd that last year's 4th place in the West caused us to be projected as 12th this year just because Paul George left. PG's departure will definitely set us back, but He's not that type of impact player at all. It's ridiculous this media underrates the moves our FO have executed to a point "just a bunch of role players" as if we haven't put anything in place.

"just a bunch of role players" is true for last year's garbage.
How many times did Russ knock us out of the games we were cruising ahead?
How many times did we bleed points because we gave PJ Tucker playing time?
How many times did we fall behind while waiting for Mason Plumlee to find himself coming back from injury?(he never did)
How many times did we have to take Theis off due to his undersized physique?
How many times have we had BJ Boston taken out immediately because he couldn't add anything to the game other than bad shot choices?
Bones Hyland and his immature behaviors?

We replaced 5 of this players and PG13 with 4 players respectively, who will not write a net negative as soon as they enter the game; Derrick Jones Jr, Nic Batum, K. Dunn, M.Bamba. Additionally, we rolled the dice on Kevin Porter JR, who could potentially raise the ceiling(big if though).

Finally, we must also take into account the possible forward steps of players such as T.Mann, Zubac, Norman Powell, who sacrificed their talents and rotation time while playing a very stagnant, isolation heavy game around 3 stars last year. With less isolation and more movement in the offence, the impact of these players will increase much more. Defensively we already better than last year.

Lets see what our homegrown guys T-Mann and Zu will do? Are they going to step up? Can Zu become 15+ ppg player? T-mann like Iggy stats 13 ppg-6 Reb-5 ast? These guys are deserving to be a starter for the opening night in Intuit dome and excitement is there.

All we need to do is keep ahead of Houston so we can protect our 25 1st rd pick swap with OKC, have pick in teens rather than like OKC's #29.

[esqtvd]

Zach Lowe again goes in on the Clippers front office and Ballmer.

Said they should have given PG the fourth year and deal with it later.

Says they insulted PG with Immanuel Quigley money with the initial offer. Wouldn't give PG the same money and terms as KL, except he wanted a NTC on top, because he was worried about getting Blake'd.

Says are the Clippers going to replace PG with a bunch of role players and finish #12 in the West? Emphasized that they need to have a good record this upcoming season because their 2025 pick could be subject to a swap.

i respect and trust lowe's basketball opinions far more than i'd ever trust my own, and he was one of my favorite writers (before he went behind the paywall)

but...

if this is his criticism then i am kinda shocked. PG showed us year after year, and big game after big game that he's not the dude you can trust when the stakes get higher and higher. there are TONS of players who play really well until those stakes rise and the anxiety becomes too much to deal with. and there are the rare ones whose games get tougher as the challenges get tougher. and paul george is the former, through and through.

like, the fans had enough of that and obviously very clearly the team did, too. and despite me being someone who values modern analytics as the foremost tool of telling us what goes on, on a basketball court, there's a resilience factor in any competitor that's not really quantifiable, and is only observable through our repeat experiences of seeing what we see on the court.

and he doesn't have that, and he's gone, and i think if feedback informs us of anything, the overall lack of lament at his departure should say something. and i think lowe doesn't get that or see that, at all.

Also, it is absurd that last year's 4th place in the West caused us to be projected as 12th this year just because Paul George left. PG's departure will definitely set us back, but He's not that type of impact player at all. It's ridiculous this media underrates the moves our FO have executed to a point "just a bunch of role players" as if we haven't put anything in place.

"just a bunch of role players" is true for last year's garbage.
How many times did Russ knock us out of the games we were cruising ahead?
How many times did we bleed points because we gave PJ Tucker playing time?
How many times did we fall behind while waiting for Mason Plumlee to find himself coming back from injury?(he never did)
How many times did we have to take Theis off due to his undersized physique?
How many times have we had BJ Boston taken out immediately because he couldn't add anything to the game other than bad shot choices?
Bones Hyland and his immature behaviors?

We replaced 5 of this players and PG13 with 4 players respectively, who will not write a net negative as soon as they enter the game; Derrick Jones Jr, Nic Batum, K. Dunn, M.Bamba. Additionally, we rolled the dice on Kevin Porter JR, who could potentially raise the ceiling(big if though).

Finally, we must also take into account the possible forward steps of players such as T.Mann, Zubac, Norman Powell, who sacrificed their talents and rotation time while playing a very stagnant, isolation heavy game around 3 stars last year. With less isolation and more movement in the offence, the impact of these players will increase much more. Defensively we already better than last year.

Lets see what our homegrown guys T-Mann and Zu will do? Are they going to step up? Can Zu become 15+ ppg player? T-mann like Iggy stats 13 ppg-6 Reb-5 ast? These guys are deserving to be a starter for the opening night in Intuit dome and excitement is there.

All we need to do is keep ahead of Houston so we can protect our 25 1st rd pick swap with OKC, have pick in teens rather than like OKC's #29.

Here's what the numbers say:

It's easy to scapegoat PJ Tucker, but he spent most of the season DNP-CD. He appeared in only 28 games total for the Clippers. PJ played 247 of his 420 minutes after the All-Star Break-- partly due to injuries--and "leaked" a total of only 18 points. This was 9th on the team. Kobe Brown leaked more in fewer than half as many minutes [24 in 115 minutes]. The time for investing PT was over--by the All-Star Break, school's out.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?PerMode=Totals&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

And per 100 possessions, the numbers looked like this:

10 Terance Mann -2.8
11 P.J. Tucker -3.6
12 James Harden -3.9
13 Mason Plumlee -4.6
14 Bones Hyland -5.0
15 Amir Coffey -5.4
16 Kobe Brown -9.9
17 Xavier Moon -10.4
18 Brandon Boston Jr. -11.5

PJ sucked, but so did the alternatives.

As for T-Mann, He turns 28 in October and there's no reason to think he'll transform into Iggy or anyone else. Once again his per-36 numbers EERILY remained almost exactly the same they do year after year--whether he plays fewer minutes, more minutes, or in between, every category is always within plus or minus 10%--and often within 5%. You is what you is.




ADD: You are correct about Brandon Boston Jr--he leaked the most points of any Clipper REGARDLESS of minutes played--dead last at minus-111 points in only 345 minutes. Unplayable. [Kobe was 2nd-worst at minus-92.]

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?PerMode=Totals&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

[Captain Ballmer]

As for T-Mann, once again his per-36 numbers EERILY remained the almost exactly same as they have his whole career, whether he plays fewer minutes, more minutes, or in between. He turns 28 in October and there's no reason to think he'll transform into Iggy or anyone else. You is what you is.

What you said about Mann is more unnecessary and unreasonable negativity than simply being realistic. T-Mann played his entire career with PG13-Kawhi, both plays SF where T-Mann' best position, both Isolation heavy, ball dominant players. T-Mann is neither the c&s player the duo benefits nor the playmaker they seeks. For that reason he sacrificed more than any in this team. Next season he will have larger role to finally(hopefully no Zach Lavine trade)to test his limit.

His numbers are really comparable to Iggy with less Ast&Stl with more efficient shooting by the way. You need to stop doing either overrate Iggy or underrate T-Mann.

T-Mann Career per36 numbers;
345 games, 13.2 ppg, 5.9 reb, 3.1 ast, .598 True Shooting, Off Rating 122, Def Rating 115 (+7)
Iggy Career per 36 numbers;
1231 games, 12.7 ppg, 5.5 reb, 4.7 ast, .553 True Shooting, Off Rating 111, Def Rating 106 (+5)
Iggy Career per 36 numbers in Philly where he was a starter full time before his athletic decline;
615 games, 14.6 ppg, 5.6 reb, 4.6 ast, .554 True Shooting

[esqtvd]

As for T-Mann, once again his per-36 numbers EERILY remained the almost exactly same as they have his whole career, whether he plays fewer minutes, more minutes, or in between. He turns 28 in October and there's no reason to think he'll transform into Iggy or anyone else. You is what you is.

What you said about Mann is more unnecessary and unreasonable negativity than simply being realistic. T-Mann played his entire career with PG13-Kawhi, both plays SF where T-Mann' best position, both Isolation heavy, ball dominant players. T-Mann is neither the c&s player the duo benefits nor the playmaker they seeks. For that reason he sacrificed more than any in this team. Next season he will have larger role to finally(hopefully no Zach Lavine trade)to test his limit.

His numbers are really comparable to Iggy with less Ast&Stl with more efficient shooting by the way. You need to stop doing either overrate Iggy or underrate T-Mann.

T-Mann Career per36 numbers;
345 games, 13.2 ppg, 5.9 reb, 3.1 ast, .598 True Shooting, Off Rating 122, Def Rating 115 (+7)
Iggy Career per 36 numbers;
1231 games, 12.7 ppg, 5.5 reb, 4.7 ast, .553 True Shooting, Off Rating 111, Def Rating 106 (+5)
Iggy Career per 36 numbers in Philly where he was a starter full time before his athletic decline;
615 games, 14.6 ppg, 5.6 reb, 4.6 ast, .554 True Shooting

Good stats, thanks for bringing your facts. Maybe Mann can become an Iguodala. He played HEAVY minutes in Philly [37.7 mpg], which inflated his gross offensive totals. But I'm not a big fan of Basketball Reference's O and D ratings, and in other advanced stats like VORP and Win Shares, Iggy blows T-Mann away. In some categories like BPM, Mann is near zero or even negative. Iggy, no. He always moved the meter, and often got votes for DPOY.

And I'm not sure Mann will change his stripes offensively, or that he can. It's very difficult to amp up your production while maintaining your efficiency. Luke Kennard is a case in point and there are many others. I'm not being negative as much as cognizant of that fact. Every year people say Mann is going to blossom to the next level, and every year his per-36 numbers stay exactly the same.