How is CC's rookie year going to go?

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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#221 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Jul 13, 2024 12:40 pm

mattg wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Ice Man wrote:Shooting percentage is different than scoring efficiency, which considers the effect of both 3 point baskets and free throws. On scoring efficiency, as measured by TS%, Clark is having among the very best seasons ever for a rookie guard. In either the WNBA or NBA. For example, she's scoring more efficiently than Steph, Luka, CP3, Kyrie, Dame, Donovan Mitchell, Wade, Klay, and Booker did when they were rookies. Also more efficiently than pretty much any WNBA guard whom you can think of.

I don't think many fans realize this. They know that she passes great and gets a lot of assists, and also passes recklessly and gets a lot of turnovers. But I don't think they realize how good she has been at scoring, for a rookie guard.


I'm not using raw FG as a knock against CC (i honestly could care less about rookie efficiency, especially hers, year 1 is an adjustment period), I just used that as critical pushback for the poster who thinks that Reese, who is also putting up historic production and is the best rebounder in the league, being considered for ROY honors is "an insult to Clark"....I'm sorry, but that's absurd.

This is an open competition where both players should be graded objectively, but some folks seem to believe that it's Caitlin’s award by default...it's not, especially when they've both hit the ground running and are doing generational things on the court.

What an absolute joke of a backpedal you're doing. YOU are the one who brought up raw FG% to criticize Clark when I said the efficiency gap between her and Reese was so massive that it's insulting to even compare the 2 as scorers. Which it is, it's literally not even remotely close. Both immense gaps in TS% and eFG%. You can say it's absurd, but the stats don't lie. Look at Reese's TS% relative to the rest of the league and then compare Clark in the same way, when you do that maybe you can have an informed discussion. Clark has higher volume, higher degree of difficulty on shots, far more defensive attention on her, far more versatility in her shot profile...and still is immensely more efficient than Reese who is shooting point blank layups and shots within 3 feet.

It's not Clark's award by default, but she has been objectively better than Reese and it's not close. It's just the media drumming up interest with a fake ROY race that has no basis in reality.


Nah, you calling Angel being considered for ROY "an insult to Clark" is absolutely absurd, you should be embarrassed for saying it, and it reeks of cult like mentality. Sorry bud.

I love CC, but when people/her fans say crazy stuff like that, and get upset when you call it out, makes me think there's other reasons for it. I'll leave it at that.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#222 » by Billy Goat » Sat Jul 13, 2024 1:34 pm

She’s already a top 5 player in the league. Insanely good.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#223 » by Billy Goat » Sat Jul 13, 2024 1:40 pm

Ghetto Gospel wrote:caitlin gonna finish top 5-10 in mvp voting if she keeps this up


She’s probably 2 behind Wilson.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#224 » by Ghetto Gospel » Sat Jul 13, 2024 2:53 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
Ghetto Gospel wrote:caitlin gonna finish top 5-10 in mvp voting if she keeps this up


She’s probably 2 behind Wilson.


eh, there's too many good 2 way players and you can't ignore her first 10 games. she'd need to find another gear for that, probably won't happen with sides as coach either
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#225 » by Billy Goat » Sat Jul 13, 2024 3:38 pm

Ghetto Gospel wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Ghetto Gospel wrote:caitlin gonna finish top 5-10 in mvp voting if she keeps this up


She’s probably 2 behind Wilson.


eh, there's too many good 2 way players and you can't ignore her first 10 games. she'd need to find another gear for that, probably won't happen with sides as coach either


With the way she keeps getting better it wouldn’t surprise me. Still a lot of season left.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#226 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:12 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
Ghetto Gospel wrote:caitlin gonna finish top 5-10 in mvp voting if she keeps this up


She’s probably 2 behind Wilson.


Nah.

Napheesa Collier, Alyssa Thomas and Stewie are all ahead of her. You can make a case for Ionescu as well.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#227 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:15 pm

Ghetto Gospel wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Ghetto Gospel wrote:caitlin gonna finish top 5-10 in mvp voting if she keeps this up


She’s probably 2 behind Wilson.


eh, there's too many good 2 way players and you can't ignore her first 10 games. she'd need to find another gear for that, probably won't happen with sides as coach either



This. Her team is also below .500.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#228 » by Billy Goat » Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:47 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Ghetto Gospel wrote:caitlin gonna finish top 5-10 in mvp voting if she keeps this up


She’s probably 2 behind Wilson.


Nah.

Napheesa Collier, Alyssa Thomas and Stewie are all ahead of her. You can make a case for Ionescu as well.


Certainly could make that argument too. She’s in the convo though
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#229 » by Ghetto Gospel » Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:48 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
She’s probably 2 behind Wilson.


Nah.

Napheesa Collier, Alyssa Thomas and Stewie are all ahead of her. You can make a case for Ionescu as well.


Certainly could make that argument too. She’s in the convo though


yeah, she needs to keep putting up that 18/7/11 or whatever those numbers have been for the past month. she'll finish top 5 for sure if she stays in that range
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#230 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:59 pm

Ghetto Gospel wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Nah.

Napheesa Collier, Alyssa Thomas and Stewie are all ahead of her. You can make a case for Ionescu as well.


Certainly could make that argument too. She’s in the convo though


yeah, she needs to keep putting up that 18/7/11 or whatever those numbers have been for the past month. she'll finish top 5 for sure if she stays in that range


Yeah she's been playing at a super high level.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#231 » by ellobo » Sat Jul 13, 2024 7:30 pm

Ghetto Gospel wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Nah.

Napheesa Collier, Alyssa Thomas and Stewie are all ahead of her. You can make a case for Ionescu as well.


Certainly could make that argument too. She’s in the convo though


yeah, she needs to keep putting up that 18/7/11 or whatever those numbers have been for the past month. she'll finish top 5 for sure if she stays in that range


The team has to keep piling up wins and beat some good teams though. You can win rookie of the year with individual stats, but it's hard to get MVP votes on a sub-.500 team. I think it's hard to vote for someone not on one of the top 5 teams (NY, Connecticut, Minnesota, Las Vegas, and Seattle), and some of those teams have multiple players that can pull votes.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#232 » by Ghetto Gospel » Sat Jul 13, 2024 7:55 pm

ellobo wrote:
Ghetto Gospel wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Certainly could make that argument too. She’s in the convo though


yeah, she needs to keep putting up that 18/7/11 or whatever those numbers have been for the past month. she'll finish top 5 for sure if she stays in that range


The team has to keep piling up wins and beat some good teams though. You can win rookie of the year with individual stats, but it's hard to get MVP votes on a sub-.500 team. I think it's hard to vote for someone not on one of the top 5 teams (NY, Connecticut, Minnesota, Las Vegas, and Seattle), and some of those teams have multiple players that can pull votes.


i don't think you have to be a top 5 team to get 4th or 5th place votes if she puts up monster numbers. i could be wrong on this though.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#233 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Jul 13, 2024 8:27 pm

ellobo wrote:
Ghetto Gospel wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Certainly could make that argument too. She’s in the convo though


yeah, she needs to keep putting up that 18/7/11 or whatever those numbers have been for the past month. she'll finish top 5 for sure if she stays in that range


The team has to keep piling up wins and beat some good teams though. You can win rookie of the year with individual stats, but it's hard to get MVP votes on a sub-.500 team. I think it's hard to vote for someone not on one of the top 5 teams (NY, Connecticut, Minnesota, Las Vegas, and Seattle), and some of those teams have multiple players that can pull votes.


Yeah agreed, you can make a case for multiple players on those teams, especially NY, CT, and MIN.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#234 » by Ice Man » Sat Jul 13, 2024 10:26 pm

If the season were to finish now, Clark '24 and Chelsea Gray '23 would be the only two seasons in WNBA history when a player averaged 17 points and 8 assists per 36.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#235 » by IlikeSHAIguys » Sun Jul 14, 2024 10:13 am

hermes wrote:
IlikeSHAIguys wrote:How is CC's rookie year looking vs other rookie years for great players?

https://www.reddit.com/r/wnba/comments/1dxxzbb/caitlin_clark_rookie_season_vs_past_rookie_greats/

this guy went into great depth on it

Merci.

Seems like she's doing well though maybe not the best rookie season ever. Defense isn't really there but she looks ok at it to me.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#236 » by IlikeSHAIguys » Sun Jul 14, 2024 10:14 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
ellobo wrote:
Ghetto Gospel wrote:
yeah, she needs to keep putting up that 18/7/11 or whatever those numbers have been for the past month. she'll finish top 5 for sure if she stays in that range


The team has to keep piling up wins and beat some good teams though. You can win rookie of the year with individual stats, but it's hard to get MVP votes on a sub-.500 team. I think it's hard to vote for someone not on one of the top 5 teams (NY, Connecticut, Minnesota, Las Vegas, and Seattle), and some of those teams have multiple players that can pull votes.


Yeah agreed, you can make a case for multiple players on those teams, especially NY, CT, and MIN.

I wonder if this is the Liberty's year. Gotta feel Buffalo Billsy if they lose again.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#237 » by Ice Man » Sun Jul 14, 2024 11:31 am

IlikeSHAIguys wrote:Seems like she's doing well though maybe not the best rookie season ever. Defense isn't really there but she looks ok at it to me.


Her defense is better than advertised, from what I can see. Pretty good on the ball, is 8th in the league in steals, and leads all WNBA guards in blocked shots. She's also good at knocking the ball off the driver's knee for a turnover (which is not officially credited as a steal, although it should be).

Her weaknesses are off-the-ball placement/rotations and that she never goes over a screen, always under.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#238 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jul 14, 2024 3:48 pm

IlikeSHAIguys wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
ellobo wrote:
The team has to keep piling up wins and beat some good teams though. You can win rookie of the year with individual stats, but it's hard to get MVP votes on a sub-.500 team. I think it's hard to vote for someone not on one of the top 5 teams (NY, Connecticut, Minnesota, Las Vegas, and Seattle), and some of those teams have multiple players that can pull votes.


Yeah agreed, you can make a case for multiple players on those teams, especially NY, CT, and MIN.

I wonder if this is the Liberty's year. Gotta feel Buffalo Billsy if they lose again.


Man don't put that bad juju on us :lol:

I feel like we can do it. I just wanna keep myself grounded.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#239 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jul 14, 2024 3:50 pm

Ice Man wrote:
IlikeSHAIguys wrote:Seems like she's doing well though maybe not the best rookie season ever. Defense isn't really there but she looks ok at it to me.


Her defense is better than advertised, from what I can see. Pretty good on the ball, is 8th in the league in steals, and leads all WNBA guards in blocked shots. She's also good at knocking the ball off the driver's knee for a turnover (which is not officially credited as a steal, although it should be).

Her weaknesses are off-the-ball placement/rotations and that she never goes over a screen, always under.


She has to get stronger and work on her situational awareness on D. Being a good team defender a lot of times is what's going on between the ears. I would love for her to study tape of Jason Kidd. He was an elite team defender at the position.

That's the amazing piece about CC. She is doing a LOT right now and this is just Year 1. She has so much room to grow as a player.
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Re: How is CC's rookie year going to go? 

Post#240 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jul 14, 2024 3:52 pm

Ice Man wrote:If the season were to finish now, Clark '24 and Chelsea Gray '23 would be the only two seasons in WNBA history when a player averaged 17 points and 8 assists per 36.


Being in the same category as Chelsea Gray in anything is a high honor.
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