Miami Heat Summer League 2024 Thread

[greg4012]

Hope Butler has spent some time practicing some fast breaks. The slow things down and methodically probe the defense, isnt my fave, nor conducive to the skill sets of everyone else on the team.

I def am curious to see if Jovic takes on a larger role as the guy bringing the ball up the court and pushing pace. It'd be nice if he can convert some of that to pressuring the paint in the half court a la Dragic.

Jovic and Jaime both do a great job pushing the pace. I could envision Bam and Ware benefiting greatly from their pace. Catch the defense on its heels.

Jaime was def bringing the ball up with his hair on fire in the Summer league stint. It was fun to watch him in that role

[Beenie]

We'll def agree to disagree then. Keep up the work trying to pump up a Ware vs. Jovic narrative. Me thinks you're reaching on it.

And let's get Jaime's name right please! JAQUEZ

I'll keep waiting for the day when fans on here can discuss skillsets that fit on a bball court rather than fixating on 2 vs 3 vs 4.

More often than not the guys on the court are filling roles that fill different positional buckets all at once. Spo would be the first to tell you that.

I can’t pretend to know exactly what the front office has in mind for the long term future of the team.

What it appears to look like though is Ware and Bam are pegged at the 4/5 spots.

I’m not buying that the team envision Niko starting next to them (that spot will likely belong to JJJ) nor am I buying that he’d be willing to accept a bench role.

How’s that for a narrative?

Premature at best.

Why wouldn't Niko accept a bench role? Why wouldn't Ware accept a bench role?

Especially in a future scenario where they are all full time players and likely top 6-7 in rotation minutes and all being paid/secured on longer term deals. Why is exactly is this an issue for today or even tomorrow?

Niko was the 27th pick in the draft. Ware is a raw rookie and was the 15th pick in the draft. Effectively all of Niko's countrymen that have found success in the NBA have played the majority of their minutes from a bench role (at best). Just looking at the Serbian national team, aside from Jokic, Bogdan is the best player and he has spent more than half of his NBA career coming off the bench. Poku was picked 17th just 4 years ago and he's already falling out of the NBA.

Cmon now

Niko has in the past voiced his frustration about his role on the team so it wouldn’t be some aberrant behavior if he were to do that again particularly in a scenario of having his minutes cut or perhaps his spot as a starter taken away.

He’s also up for an extension next offseason so decisions will have to be made.

[greg4012]

I can’t pretend to know exactly what the front office has in mind for the long term future of the team.

What it appears to look like though is Ware and Bam are pegged at the 4/5 spots.

I’m not buying that the team envision Niko starting next to them (that spot will likely belong to JJJ) nor am I buying that he’d be willing to accept a bench role.

How’s that for a narrative?

Premature at best.

Why wouldn't Niko accept a bench role? Why wouldn't Ware accept a bench role?

Especially in a future scenario where they are all full time players and likely top 6-7 in rotation minutes and all being paid/secured on longer term deals. Why is exactly is this an issue for today or even tomorrow?

Niko was the 27th pick in the draft. Ware is a raw rookie and was the 15th pick in the draft. Effectively all of Niko's countrymen that have found success in the NBA have played the majority of their minutes from a bench role (at best). Just looking at the Serbian national team, aside from Jokic, Bogdan is the best player and he has spent more than half of his NBA career coming off the bench. Poku was picked 17th just 4 years ago and he's already falling out of the NBA.

Cmon now

Niko has in the past voiced his frustration about his role on the team so it wouldn’t be some aberrant behavior if he were to do that again particularly in a scenario of having his minutes cut or perhaps his spot as a starter taken away.

He’s also up for an extension next offseason so decisions will have to be made.

As I've laid out on here multiple times before (including in dialogue with you), Niko being eligible for extension next offseason presents more opportunity than issue IMO when you look at the new CBA, how teams are spending, and what players in comparable situations to Niko have netted in their rookie extensions.

It might not be aberrant behavior for Niko to have frustration at points in his NBA career, but I think it's kinda reckless and unfounded to make it some baseline expectation. Niko's frustrations were mostly that he just wanted to play his style of basketball rather than slog with learning and growing in a big man role from what I recall.

I can make an argument that the expectation would be that Niko will welcome with open arms another frontcourt partner that allows him to spend less time bumping with bigs. I'm not currently projecting that as my baseline expectation, because why would I?

My current impression is that you just seem to personally not like the frontcourt build (including Bam) and find reason to doom & gloom it in creative capacities at every turn. Maybe I'm off there. I don't want to operate off a foundation of pure assumption here.

[Beenie]

Premature at best.

Why wouldn't Niko accept a bench role? Why wouldn't Ware accept a bench role?

Especially in a future scenario where they are all full time players and likely top 6-7 in rotation minutes and all being paid/secured on longer term deals. Why is exactly is this an issue for today or even tomorrow?

Niko was the 27th pick in the draft. Ware is a raw rookie and was the 15th pick in the draft. Effectively all of Niko's countrymen that have found success in the NBA have played the majority of their minutes from a bench role (at best). Just looking at the Serbian national team, aside from Jokic, Bogdan is the best player and he has spent more than half of his NBA career coming off the bench. Poku was picked 17th just 4 years ago and he's already falling out of the NBA.

Cmon now

Niko has in the past voiced his frustration about his role on the team so it wouldn’t be some aberrant behavior if he were to do that again particularly in a scenario of having his minutes cut or perhaps his spot as a starter taken away.

He’s also up for an extension next offseason so decisions will have to be made.

As I've laid out on here multiple times before (including in dialogue with you), Niko being eligible for extension next offseason presents more opportunity than issue IMO when you look at the new CBA, how teams are spending, and what players in comparable situations to Niko have netted in their rookie extensions.

It might not be aberrant behavior for Niko to have frustration at points in his NBA career, but I think it's kinda reckless and unfounded to make it some baseline expectation. Niko's frustrations were mostly that he just wanted to play his style of basketball rather than slog with learning and growing in a big man role.

I can make an argument that the expectation would be that Niko will welcome with open arms another frontcourt partner that allows him to spend less time bumping with bigs. I'm not currently projecting that as my baseline expectation, because why would I?

My current impression is that you just seem to personally not like the frontcourt build (including Bam) and find reason to doom & gloom it in creative capacities at every turn. Maybe I'm off there. I don't want to operate off a foundation of pure assumption here.

It’s 100% true that I don’t love how the pieces fit now and for the future. Specifically on the point of Niko’s role, I don’t think it’s prudent to pay him big on a long term contract considering that I don’t believe that he optimally compliments the build.

I’ve said many times that I’d look to move him and add him as a trade sweetener to get off of one or more of the guards.

Theres a lot of talk these days about which of the undrafteds to keep or cut and a 2 for 1 trade would allow the team to not have to make such tough decisions, but I digress.

The “doom n gloom” attitude (lol) if you’ve been paying really close attention, is a response to the “move on from Jimmy” narrative which is a doom n gloom storyline in its own right which has caught wind in these communities. I’m not really going for that, I digress.

The stuff about Niko being happy and accepting about a neutered role is a stock that I’m simply not gonna buy. This take is independent of how I feel about his fit. Take it or leave it.

[MettaWorldPanda]

I’m still not 100% sold on Niko’s long term fit here. I do view him as the sweetener if any decent deal comes along. I don’t view Niko in the negative light like i did Winslow of the past but for me he’s movable if it helps in a consolidation 2-1 trade as an attachment to Duncan or Herro that brings back a good player.

[DayofMourning]

I’m still not 100% sold on Niko’s long term fit here. I do view him as the sweetener if any decent deal comes along. I don’t view Niko in the negative light like i did Winslow of the past but for me he’s movable if it helps in a consolidation 2-1 trade as an attachment to Duncan or Herro that brings back a good player.

Niko is the lowest on my totem pole out of the youth brigade as well.

I enjoy watching him play when hes going wide open. Hes got a lot of ability when he can run. He needs to grow into a more versatile scorer/playmaker in the half court.

I want him around since we drafted him, but if a good deal came our way, Im ready to wish him the absolute best.

[gom]

I’m still not 100% sold on Niko’s long term fit here. I do view him as the sweetener if any decent deal comes along. I don’t view Niko in the negative light like i did Winslow of the past but for me he’s movable if it helps in a consolidation 2-1 trade as an attachment to Duncan or Herro that brings back a good player.

Niko is the lowest on my totem pole out of the youth brigade as well.

I enjoy watching him play when hes going wide open. Hes got a lot of ability when he can run. He needs to grow into a more versatile scorer/playmaker in the half court.

I want him around since we drafted him, but if a good deal came our way, Im ready to wish him the absolute best.

I'm impressed with his passing, ball-handling, and intelligence. He definitely has a future in the NBA. Signed to a MLE he would be a bargain. We cannot offer him a fat bag of cash though. If he wants a big contract, he will need to sign for another team, and we would be justified in adding him to Herro (for example) to free up cap space. I don't have high expectations for 2024-2025 and doubt Mickey Arison would like to pay repeater tax for a play in team.

[RexBoyWonder]

I'd give the 2 ways to Keshad, Alnodes and Christopher.

I really like Stevens but being a tiny guard is such a steep hill to climb, both on defense and trying to create offense for himself.
Both Alnodes and Christopher showed enough skill and they have great size and athleticism.

Alondes has been in our program for a while too, I say give him a look as a backup scoring PG with great length, he has passing talent he just need to sharpen it and stay focused.

Stevens can get reps in Skyforce for a while, and we could convert him to a 2-way around mid season when we convert Keshad to a standard contract.

[Pokuokic]

I’m still not 100% sold on Niko’s long term fit here. I do view him as the sweetener if any decent deal comes along. I don’t view Niko in the negative light like i did Winslow of the past but for me he’s movable if it helps in a consolidation 2-1 trade as an attachment to Duncan or Herro that brings back a good player.

I would love if they traded him tbh somewhere where he can play SF or somewhere like NOP (Ingram) where he could be a stretch 4 with Zion as a smallball 5 and Murphy/Herb on the wings.

[RexBoyWonder]

Niko ain't going anywhere, Coaching stuff is very high on him and he's a skilled, high IQ, shooting big - which is a big need for us going forward.

He's the kind of player that will get better every year for the next 5 seasons, he's younger then alot of the players selected in this years'x draft.

[greg4012]

I’m still not 100% sold on Niko’s long term fit here. I do view him as the sweetener if any decent deal comes along. I don’t view Niko in the negative light like i did Winslow of the past but for me he’s movable if it helps in a consolidation 2-1 trade as an attachment to Duncan or Herro that brings back a good player.

All of our young guys are movable for a great deal

[twix2500]

I'd give the 2 ways to Keshad, Alnodes and Christopher.

I really like Stevens but being a tiny guard is such a steep hill to climb, both on defense and trying to create offense for himself.
Both Alnodes and Christopher showed enough skill and they have great size and athleticism.

Alondes has been in our program for a while too, I say give him a look as a backup scoring PG with great length, he has passing talent he just need to sharpen it and stay focused.

Stevens can get reps in Skyforce for a while, and we could convert him to a 2-way around mid season when we convert Keshad to a standard contract.

Williams can't play point. We seen enough in Summer league when it started. He is not good enough ball handler or has good vision. Christopher and Alondes are the same players. I doubt they both would want to return together. The opportunity to play here is pretty much zilch.

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[Beenie]

Niko ain't going anywhere, Coaching stuff is very high on him and he's a skilled, high IQ, shooting big - which is a big need for us going forward.

He's the kind of player that will get better every year for the next 5 seasons, he's younger then alot of the players selected in this years'x draft.

I’m not sold that the front office views Niko as a fixture just yet.

There are only so many fixtures than can be afforded.

And if they do eventually make one of these splash moves that they are rumored to be involved in seemingly every year, someone has got to be the bait. Niko seems like the logical guy.

[twix2500]

There is only one untouchable player and that's Adebayo.

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[greg4012]

It’s 100% true that I don’t love how the pieces fit now and for the future. Specifically on the point of Niko’s role, I don’t think it’s prudent to pay him big on a long term contract considering that I don’t believe that he optimally compliments the build.

"Pay him big"

Where is this coming from aside from your own projection making it easier to validate your feelings? Market rate, if Niko makes a jump this season, has him looking squarely at a role player contract. The tactics of projecting fallacies to try to frame your perspective in a light that isn't real is part of why I feel compelled to respond and inject reason.

The stuff about Niko being happy and accepting about a neutered role is a stock that I’m simply not gonna buy. This take is independent of how I feel about his fit. Take it or leave it.

If the options are "take it or leave it"... I've been "leaving" effectively all of your posts for a while now.

And we can disagree. That's a healthy thing. I just will continue to push back when you utilize silly scare tactics to project fallacies into the discussion as the basis for your view (like you're currently doing with the fan fiction that a raw rookie playing backup C minutes means that Niko is destined to be a malcontent and waste away without a role).

IMO anyone that is ready to move on from Duncan, should absolutely not be wanting to move on from Niko as well unless Miami is getting back a high level volume 3 pt shooter (preferably a star with forward+ size).

Here's some notable context:

- There were only 21 total players in the NBA last season that were 6'10+ and averaged over 3 3PA per game
- Niko had the 3rd best 3PT% of this entire group of 21 players (39.9%)
- 14 of these 21 players averaged over 29 minutes per game
- Niko had the 2nd highest rate of 3PT shooting among this group of 21 players (behind only Davis Bertans whom is basically the Duncan Robinson of PFs)

I'm not contending Niko is on any sort of star trajectory. I will contend that from what he's shown, his floor is basically prime Dario Saric (a damn good and unique frontcourt rotation piece that helps a team offense function optimally). What Niko offers is a versatile skillset that is VERY rare at his functional size. The strides he made as a defender compelling Spo to keep him the starting PF and a mainstay in the lineup is the sole reason why someone like Haywood Highsmith had reduced minutes being relied on as the starting PF. Spo needs certain skillsets out of his PF position. If you ain't shooting 3s, you ain't playing the position.

It's important for the offense to have willing volume 3 pt shooters between Bam and Jimmy. I haven't even gotten into the fact that Niko can handle the ball like a wing and has guard passing instincts. All that stuff matters to be able to fit cheaper one-dimensional players to play a specialized role in lineups.

Just some food for thought.

[greg4012]

I'd give the 2 ways to Keshad, Alnodes and Christopher.

I really like Stevens but being a tiny guard is such a steep hill to climb, both on defense and trying to create offense for himself.
Both Alnodes and Christopher showed enough skill and they have great size and athleticism.

Alondes has been in our program for a while too, I say give him a look as a backup scoring PG with great length, he has passing talent he just need to sharpen it and stay focused.

Stevens can get reps in Skyforce for a while, and we could convert him to a 2-way around mid season when we convert Keshad to a standard contract.

Williams can't play point. We seen enough in Summer league when it started. He is not good enough ball handler or has good vision. Christopher and Alondes are the same players. I doubt they both would want to return together. The opportunity to play here is pretty much zilch.

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That first game starting out with Alondes as the lead ballhandler was excruciating to watch.

[greg4012]

Niko ain't going anywhere, Coaching stuff is very high on him and he's a skilled, high IQ, shooting big - which is a big need for us going forward.

He's the kind of player that will get better every year for the next 5 seasons, he's younger then alot of the players selected in this years'x draft.

I’m not sold that the front office views Niko as a fixture just yet.

There are only so many fixtures than can be afforded.

And if they do eventually make one of these splash moves that they are rumored to be involved in seemingly every year, someone has got to be the bait. Niko seems like the logical guy.

For the right star player, any of the young guys should be up for grabs. I'm a fan of the talent Miami has brought in lately between Ware, Jaquez and Jovic. It should all depend on what position the incoming star plays and what positional needs the trading team has, and which player they value. None should be untouchable for the right star. It's a sliding scale.

Trading for a star is pie in the sky right now anyways (until it's not). Seems like an exercise that results in people digging their heels in the sand and forming tribal factions in support and opposition to good young players rather than just enjoying their development.

[twix2500]

It’s 100% true that I don’t love how the pieces fit now and for the future. Specifically on the point of Niko’s role, I don’t think it’s prudent to pay him big on a long term contract considering that I don’t believe that he optimally compliments the build.

"Pay him big"

Where is this coming from aside from your own projection making it easier to validate your feelings? Market rate, if Niko makes a jump this season, has him looking squarely at a role player contract. The tactics of projecting fallacies to try to frame your perspective in a light that isn't real is part of why I feel compelled to respond and inject reason.

The stuff about Niko being happy and accepting about a neutered role is a stock that I’m simply not gonna buy. This take is independent of how I feel about his fit. Take it or leave it.

If the options are "take it or leave it"... I've been "leaving" effectively all of your posts for a while now.

And we can disagree. That's a healthy thing. I just will continue to push back when you utilize silly scare tactics to project fallacies into the discussion as the basis for your view (like you're currently doing with the fan fiction that a raw rookie playing backup C minutes means that Niko is destined to be a malcontent and waste away without a role).

IMO anyone that is ready to move on from Duncan, should absolutely not be wanting to move on from Niko as well unless Miami is getting back a high level volume 3 pt shooter (preferably a star with forward+ size).

Here's some notable context:

- There were only 21 total players in the NBA last season that were 6'10+ and averaged over 3 3PA per game
- Niko had the 3rd best 3PT% of this entire group of 21 players (39.9%)
- 14 of these 21 players averaged over 29 minutes per game
- Niko had the 2nd highest rate of 3PT shooting among this group of 21 players (behind only Davis Bertans whom is basically the Duncan Robinson of PFs)

I'm not contending Niko is on any sort of star trajectory. I will contend that from what he's shown, his floor is basically prime Dario Saric (a damn good and unique frontcourt rotation piece that helps a team offense function optimally). What Niko offers is a versatile skillset that is VERY rare at his functional size. The strides he made as a defender compelling Spo to keep him the starting PF and a mainstay in the lineup is the sole reason why someone like Haywood Highsmith had reduced minutes being relied on as the starting PF. Spo needs certain skillsets out of his PF position. If you ain't shooting 3s, you ain't playing the position.

It's important for the offense to have willing volume 3 pt shooters between Bam and Jimmy. I haven't even gotten into the fact that Niko can handle the ball like a wing and has guard passing instincts. All that stuff matters to be able to fit cheaper one-dimensional players to play a specialized role in lineups.

Just some food for thought.

Pay big means anything above the veteran min in this room. #NoMiddleClass

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[lastb1ckman]

I def am curious to see if Jovic takes on a larger role as the guy bringing the ball up the court and pushing pace. It'd be nice if he can convert some of that to pressuring the paint in the half court a la Dragic.

Jovic and Jaime both do a great job pushing the pace. I could envision Bam and Ware benefiting greatly from their pace. Catch the defense on its heels.

Jaime was def bringing the ball up with his hair on fire in the Summer league stint. It was fun to watch him in that role

I think we have the players to play fast, but with Jimmy here at age 35 that isn't happening. He's rarely been that guy every season he's been on the heat, i doubt that's changing now

[greg4012]

It’s 100% true that I don’t love how the pieces fit now and for the future. Specifically on the point of Niko’s role, I don’t think it’s prudent to pay him big on a long term contract considering that I don’t believe that he optimally compliments the build.

"Pay him big"

Where is this coming from aside from your own projection making it easier to validate your feelings? Market rate, if Niko makes a jump this season, has him looking squarely at a role player contract. The tactics of projecting fallacies to try to frame your perspective in a light that isn't real is part of why I feel compelled to respond and inject reason.

The stuff about Niko being happy and accepting about a neutered role is a stock that I’m simply not gonna buy. This take is independent of how I feel about his fit. Take it or leave it.

If the options are "take it or leave it"... I've been "leaving" effectively all of your posts for a while now.

And we can disagree. That's a healthy thing. I just will continue to push back when you utilize silly scare tactics to project fallacies into the discussion as the basis for your view (like you're currently doing with the fan fiction that a raw rookie playing backup C minutes means that Niko is destined to be a malcontent and waste away without a role).

IMO anyone that is ready to move on from Duncan, should absolutely not be wanting to move on from Niko as well unless Miami is getting back a high level volume 3 pt shooter (preferably a star with forward+ size).

Here's some notable context:

- There were only 21 total players in the NBA last season that were 6'10+ and averaged over 3 3PA per game
- Niko had the 3rd best 3PT% of this entire group of 21 players (39.9%)
- 14 of these 21 players averaged over 29 minutes per game
- Niko had the 2nd highest rate of 3PT shooting among this group of 21 players (behind only Davis Bertans whom is basically the Duncan Robinson of PFs)

I'm not contending Niko is on any sort of star trajectory. I will contend that from what he's shown, his floor is basically prime Dario Saric (a damn good and unique frontcourt rotation piece that helps a team offense function optimally). What Niko offers is a versatile skillset that is VERY rare at his functional size. The strides he made as a defender compelling Spo to keep him the starting PF and a mainstay in the lineup is the sole reason why someone like Haywood Highsmith had reduced minutes being relied on as the starting PF. Spo needs certain skillsets out of his PF position. If you ain't shooting 3s, you ain't playing the position.

It's important for the offense to have willing volume 3 pt shooters between Bam and Jimmy. I haven't even gotten into the fact that Niko can handle the ball like a wing and has guard passing instincts. All that stuff matters to be able to fit cheaper one-dimensional players to play a specialized role in lineups.

Just some food for thought.

A little more context on my dive into the players over 6'10 that averaged over 3 3PA per game (remember Niko had the 3rd best 3PT% of this group and shot 3PAs at the 2nd highest rate among this group:

- Niko had the 9th highest Assist % of this group behind only the following players: Karl Towns, Kevin Durant, Joel Embiid, Dario Saric (stylistic comp--this was his career high AST%), Paolo Banchero, Wemby, Vucevic, and Franz Wagner. Niko had by far the lowest Usage % of this group. NOTE: 6 of these 8 players have been All-Stars.

- Niko had the 11th highest rebound % of this group. The only non-centers that had a higher rebound % than Niko were Lauri Markkanen (by 1%) and Jabari Smith (1/3 of his minutes at Center)