An early summer 2024 thread

[Clemenza]

I like it. As of now we only have one 2-way left.

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Flowers has to be the real deal to get a two-way right out the gate with no SL play. If a couple of players like PJ, Bones, Coffey, or Norm get moved then Jordan Miller definitely gets a roster spot and a new contract. That would open up two 2-way contracts available. I'm positive Diabate gets one as we need to keep him around. The last one would be up to Kai Jones and how he looks and plays in training camp/preseason.

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[esqtvd]

Kai tricked out in his complimentary Clipper gear.

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[jengmann3]

Kai Jones looks like a monster in highlights. Trust me, I live on the East Coast, and the Celtics had some years where the "young players" were really overhyped. We thought Gerald Green was going to be a 25 pt a game guy. Marcus Banks was going to by Gary Payton. And Kedrick Brown was going to be Scottie Pippen. So I always have angst when fanbases are like play the young guys, especially if they are not the right young guys. That being said, as crazy as the casting away of draft picks was, we do seem to have some pretty good young talent. Bones, Kai Jones, KPJ, Jordan Miller are all pretty intriguing. Lawrence Frank sounds like he's ready to deal Bones, but I don't love that idea. He started the season (pre-season and first couple games) really well. His role made sense, and he's been in the dark for two years prior. I know he's a professional, making millions, so I get he should take it better, but it's hard to take for a guy that seems like he has the world of confidence.He's just a guy who needs consistent minutes and needs to be him. I'd be bummed if he ended up on a team like Sac and became that microwave 6 man.

[TrueLAfan]

Trentyn Flowers is, essentially, a bigger, more defense oriented Brandon Boston Jr. He’s about an inch or so taller and 25 pounds heavier than BBJ (shorter wingspan, though). Both are/were very young. Both were pretty highly coveted coming out of high school and had meh years with their 18 year old seasons. Raw, with lots of upside. BBJ was a swing and, more or less, a single. He’s a bottom of the rotation, 13th man sort of player. We had him for 3 years and my guess is that the coaching staff said WYSIWYG to/about him. Maybe we’ll get more out of Flowers. Maybe not. But he’s worth the risk given his upside.

Kai Jones is another matter altogether. He’s actually a year older than Boston—but he progressed pretty nicely between his freshman and sophomore college years (which made him a borderline lottery pick), and in the pros. His problems are not ability or upside related and not linked to illegal activities (like, say, KPJ). More than anything, Kai didn’t develop quickly enough—his ability was obvious and he had his share of good games. He just didn’t have of them consistently enough, at least for Mitch Kupchak (who is not good with young talent). He also is a strange dude and comes across as pretty well spoken but odd in interviews. I have to think our staff looks at him and goes “Jonathan Isaac,” who’s a very good comparison both physically and mentally. Thing is, a Grade B Isaac would be a big, big plus. So, yeah, that.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Kai Jones looks like a monster in highlights. Trust me, I live on the East Coast, and the Celtics had some years where the "young players" were really overhyped. We thought Gerald Green was going to be a 25 pt a game guy. Marcus Banks was going to by Gary Payton. And Kedrick Brown was going to be Scottie Pippen. So I always have angst when fanbases are like play the young guys, especially if they are not the right young guys. That being said, as crazy as the casting away of draft picks was, we do seem to have some pretty good young talent. Bones, Kai Jones, KPJ, Jordan Miller are all pretty intriguing. Lawrence Frank sounds like he's ready to deal Bones, but I don't love that idea. He started the season (pre-season and first couple games) really well. His role made sense, and he's been in the dark for two years prior. I know he's a professional, making millions, so I get he should take it better, but it's hard to take for a guy that seems like he has the world of confidence.He's just a guy who needs consistent minutes and needs to be him. I'd be bummed if he ended up on a team like Sac and became that microwave 6 man.

Gerald Green had the skill level to be an all-star level player- the guy was super athletic and skilled. He did flourish in Phoenix, but he didn't live up to his fullest potential.

[KL2]

Law Murray said we were never in the mix. It was a rumor started by the other side. Anyway nice get for Phoenix.

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[esqtvd]

New era comin'.

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[og15]

Law Murray said we were never in the mix. It was a rumor started by the other side. Anyway nice get for Phoenix.

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Clippers made no sense for him since the word is that he wanted a starting role, and rightly so as he's a very good player and a starting caliber player on the right team.

As a Clipper he's coming off the bench, of even if somehow made a starter, he's playing next to a ball dominant on ball guard.

Great get for the Suns. For him, he makes less than some other teams would give, but he gets to start on a good team and then as long as no catastrophic injury happens he can get more money next off season.

[madmaxmedia]

Law Murray said we were never in the mix. It was a rumor started by the other side. Anyway nice get for Phoenix.

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He signed for the minimum, which obviously we would have offered. But he gets to start in Phoenix (or at least play a lot more minutes) so it’s a much better situation for him.

[og15]

Kai Jones looks like a monster in highlights. Trust me, I live on the East Coast, and the Celtics had some years where the "young players" were really overhyped. We thought Gerald Green was going to be a 25 pt a game guy. Marcus Banks was going to by Gary Payton. And Kedrick Brown was going to be Scottie Pippen. So I always have angst when fanbases are like play the young guys, especially if they are not the right young guys. That being said, as crazy as the casting away of draft picks was, we do seem to have some pretty good young talent. Bones, Kai Jones, KPJ, Jordan Miller are all pretty intriguing. Lawrence Frank sounds like he's ready to deal Bones, but I don't love that idea. He started the season (pre-season and first couple games) really well. His role made sense, and he's been in the dark for two years prior. I know he's a professional, making millions, so I get he should take it better, but it's hard to take for a guy that seems like he has the world of confidence.He's just a guy who needs consistent minutes and needs to be him. I'd be bummed if he ended up on a team like Sac and became that microwave 6 man.

Gerald Green had the skill level to be an all-star level player- the guy was super athletic and skilled. He did flourish in Phoenix, but he didn't live up to his fullest potential.

Green definitely had the athleticism with solid size for a wing and he had the shooting, but lacked critical star skills like ball handling and passing in addition to lacking the cerebral aspect of the game.

Bones has a couple of issues holding him back. He's a scorer primarily, but not efficient enough as a scorer. He's weak, so he's able to be easily abused on defense despite having length. He's a solid passer but not elite and he's not an elite shooter though good.

His scoring game is mainly effective outside the arc as he's not an efficient inside the arc player (45% 2PT career) away from the rim, but can't get to the rim enough to maximize that, and he can't get to the line at a high rate (3.1 FTA/36). So in order to be efficient he has to mainly rely on high volume of 3's and making them at like 38%+ and/or he has to change his offensive game to be less aggressive, but that changes who he is.

So unless he can develop an inside the arc game, it's going to be tough for him to be more than a bench player in the NBA unless he makes a drastic stride in an area of his game he currently is deficient in.

He can't just do the same thing with more opportunity and actually be a starting caliber NBA player despite his scoring skills because his scoring is just not good enough.

[esqtvd]

Kai Jones looks like a monster in highlights. Trust me, I live on the East Coast, and the Celtics had some years where the "young players" were really overhyped. We thought Gerald Green was going to be a 25 pt a game guy. Marcus Banks was going to by Gary Payton. And Kedrick Brown was going to be Scottie Pippen. So I always have angst when fanbases are like play the young guys, especially if they are not the right young guys. That being said, as crazy as the casting away of draft picks was, we do seem to have some pretty good young talent. Bones, Kai Jones, KPJ, Jordan Miller are all pretty intriguing. Lawrence Frank sounds like he's ready to deal Bones, but I don't love that idea. He started the season (pre-season and first couple games) really well. His role made sense, and he's been in the dark for two years prior. I know he's a professional, making millions, so I get he should take it better, but it's hard to take for a guy that seems like he has the world of confidence.He's just a guy who needs consistent minutes and needs to be him. I'd be bummed if he ended up on a team like Sac and became that microwave 6 man.

Gerald Green had the skill level to be an all-star level player- the guy was super athletic and skilled. He did flourish in Phoenix, but he didn't live up to his fullest potential.

Green definitely had the athleticism with solid size for a wing and he had the shooting, but lacked critical star skills like ball handling and passing in addition to lacking the cerebral aspect of the game.

Bones has a couple of issues holding him back. He's a scorer primarily, but not efficient enough as a scorer. He's weak, so he's able to be easily abused on defense despite having length. He's a solid passer but not elite and he's not an elite shooter though good.

His scoring game is mainly effective outside the arc as he's not an efficient inside the arc player (45% 2PT career) away from the rim, but can't get to the rim enough to maximize that, and he can't get to the line at a high rate (3.1 FTA/36). So in order to be efficient he has to mainly rely on high volume of 3's and making them at like 38%+ and/or he has to change his offensive game to be less aggressive, but that changes who he is.

So unless he can develop an inside the arc game, it's going to be tough for him to be more than a bench player in the NBA unless he makes a drastic stride in an area of his game he currently is deficient in.

He can't just do the same thing with more opportunity and actually be a starting caliber NBA player despite his scoring skills because his scoring is just not good enough.

Bingo. And once he does find something that works consistently, defenses will take it away from him. There's just no way to cheat the game. It's easy to sneak up on the league but once you're good enough to gameplan for, you better have more skills in your bag.

[Clemenza]

Damn, Moussa to Charlotte. I guess Kai Jones gets the last two way spot if he looks decent and doesn't have a mental breakdown.

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[madmaxmedia]

Damn, Moussa to Charlotte. I guess Kai Jones gets the last two way spot if he looks decent and doesn't have a mental breakdown.

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LOL us and Charlotte essentially traded these guys. Feels mostly like six of one, half dozen of the other. I haven't seen enough of either to really compare, but based on draft position and history we got the higher ceiling lower floor guy. Hopefully we got the better one though if Kai has turned it around for himself personally, would be a good story for that alone.

[KL2]

Damn, Moussa to Charlotte. I guess Kai Jones gets the last two way spot if he looks decent and doesn't have a mental breakdown.

He had a really impressive SL. He looked like a player who had figured it out finally. I mentioned in the SL thread I thought some team would give him a 2-way contract at least. Seemed pretty obvious the Clippers were only offering a camp deal like Jones to compete for the leftover slots.

I wonder who the Clippers bring in now?

[TrueLAfan]

Damn, Moussa to Charlotte. I guess Kai Jones gets the last two way spot if he looks decent and doesn't have a mental breakdown.

He had a really impressive SL. He looked like a player who had figured it out finally. I mentioned in the SL thread I thought some team would give him a 2-way contract at least. Seemed pretty obvious the Clippers were only offering a camp deal like Jones to compete for the leftover slots.

I wonder who the Clippers bring in now?

I think both BBJ and Diabate were/are thought of WYSIWYG players at this point. Diabate did look better in the summer, but he’s a guy getting by with his motor for now. If his skill improvement is anything other than incremental, it’s bad. He hasn’t shown much in NBA games, and I’m guess the thought wasthat he won’t get (much) better. Same with BBJ—who did a little more in the NBA in sporadic flashes, but not enough. Kai Jones has had a different experience. His last month or two in 2022-3 in Charlotte were good. Not pretty good—rotation guy good. 5.3 points, 4.5 boards and 1.3 blocks with 59% shooting in his last 14 games. The Hornets were 5-9 in those games, which is lousy … but better than they were in the rest of the season games. I think the feeling is that Moussa is near maximizing his skill—he’s capable as a (very) low-rotation player because of his motor and attitude. That’s nice. But Kai Jones has more skills and has simply done more. His problems, like I said in another thread, don’t seem to be criminally related. I think the hope is that he’s just … weird. I said it another thread—I think the “hope” is that he’s Jonathan Isaac weird.

A lot may depend on Kai. If he can do what he did in Charlotte in those games—and he improved throughout his college and NBA tenure, so that’s kind of reasonable—then he’d be a 6 and 4.5 guy that’s defense oriented in 20 mpg. We still could still use some help at PF, but if we can get 3000 combined minutes out of Kai and Batum, we may be okay. Jones will get time at PF in small ball situations. We could just squeak by.

[KL2]

You can’t teach that defense. He’s a pest and his motor seems endless.

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I’m actually looking forward to this team and season.

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[nickhx2]

espn should poll clipper fans and ask these same dorks how it's possible that 100% of fans are happy he's now gone?

[Ballings7]

Nooooo Moussa... that kinda sux, was looking forward to seeing him get a chance in pre-season.

Well, the Moussa Campaign of 2025, must now move to Charlotte. Gonna keep following him. Luv his game and still believe in his potential to be a new-age hybrid big that'll be able to stretch the floor and be a problem defensively. Like a smaller, less polished Jaren Jackson but maybe a better rebounder.

Everyone drinking the Philly Kool-aid. Best of luck with those empty cups that will pile up on the counter at the end of evening...

[esqtvd]

espn should poll clipper fans and ask these same dorks how it's possible that 100% of fans are happy he's now gone?

We won 51 games last year, which looks out of the question now. Coaches were just voting re this season, not long-term as GMs. Works the other way too: Sixers substituted Paul George for Tobias Harris. That's a no-brainer.

Long-term, 213 had run its course. Clippers will tread water for a few years, try to win 45-ish games and put a smiley face on it, then see what happens.

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[esqtvd]

Nooooo Moussa... that kinda sux, was looking forward to seeing him get a chance in pre-season.

Well, the Moussa Campaign of 2025, must now move to Charlotte. Gonna keep following him. Luv his game and still believe in his potential to be a new-age hybrid big that'll be able to stretch the floor and be a problem defensively. Like a smaller, less polished Jaren Jackson but maybe a better rebounder.

Everyone drinking the Philly Kool-aid. Best of luck with those empty cups that will pile up on the counter at the end of evening...

Moussa didn't shoot the 3 in G-League at all, so what can you do with a big who's only 210 lbs and can't stretch the floor? Hope he can get you some rebs, stand in the right place on D, and eat you some minutes.

I mean you're talking about a two-way with one of the worst teams in the league and he's lucky to get that. I'm not sure he has enough offense to be of interest overseas. Anyway, good luck to him--I'm always happy to see our guys hook on elsewhere, and he should get more opportunity with a bad team. I guess the sad thing is when you're on a two-way contract, they can yank it at any time. He still hasn't made it by any means.

As for Philly, Embiid is stinking it up so far in the Olympics. I'm just hoping it's because he's trying not to get hurt. I'm glad Kawhi isn't there.