Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Beal for Midds discussed last year

[JonHeist]

wanting to get rid of brook so that we can play small is dumb as hell

we already have the best small-ball 5 in the league

and sometimes you need a big-ball 5, even in today's game

Not in the playoffs.

depends on the team

we 110% need brook vs philly or denver

[jute2003]

I love Brook so I have no joy in saying, he looked cooked in the playoffs. Maybe he had some injury that limited him, but if not, I don’t think you can rely on him being much more than a spot back up player against most teams.

My man is just too damn slow at this point. He was too slow to grab rebounds/loose balls that came to his area, to challenge floaters or layups in the drop, and/or to get back in transition despite standing 30 feet from the rim much of the time.

At his age, I don’t think you’re fixing slow. Only going to get worse.

He put on a great scoring display so I was hoping he’d have some value, but damned if he didn’t give it all back (and then some) on the glass and defensively.

That is what I watched. He's old, slow, and getting slower. The goofy bastard has reshaped his career and himself as a player but father time always wins.

[emunney]

Also, maybe we trade Brook, maybe we don't, but I think we've all learned over the years that a GM saying positive things about a player he's asked about has no bearing on whether that player will be traded. He could even mean those things, and then mean them equally as much or more so about whomever we get back.

[emunney]

"You know, first of all, we're so grateful for Brook and everything he's meant to this franchise and the city of Milwaukee over the past six years. Not just as a player, but as a person..."

[Bernman]

Brook just played way too much last yr. No reason it needed to be 30+, w/ Giannis & Bobby healthy in the regular season. Now we have more of a small ball option too, adding Prince, & w/ Livingston maturing.

We can reduce Brook's minutes to under 20 or less, & seldom have him finish games (match-up dependent). A lot of teams ceremoniously use their center like this. Then after the season, have his sizable contract expire for us.

It'd help a lot if we dealt/waived Beauchamp & picked up Achiuwa to switch on d, rebound, & space adequately. We could then trade Bobby for a lotto protected 1st & if the bigs prove insufficient, use that ammo to trade for one before the deadline.

[mcfromage]

Brook just played way too much last yr. No reason it needed to be 30+, w/ Giannis & Bobby healthy in the regular season. Now we have more of a small ball option too, adding Prince, & w/ Livingston maturing.

We can reduce Brook's minutes to under 20 or less, & seldom have him finish games (match-up dependent). A lot of teams ceremoniously use their center like this. Then after the season, have his sizable contract expire for us.

It'd help a lot if we dealt/waived Beauchamp & picked up Achiuwa to switch on d, rebound, & space adequately. We could then trade Bobby for a lotto protected 1st & if the bigs prove insufficient, use that ammo to trade for one before the deadline.

Yes please.

[bdpecore]

Sure, those are his good traits, now list his bad traits. He's a massive liability to transition defense, forcing the Bucks to game plan and limit where his is on the floor offensively. He get absolutely lit up from the 3 point line come playoff time consistently. He's too slow to be a threat as a roll man. He refuses to post up. He's not switchable.

Versus the Pacers, the Bucks were 20 points/100 worse defensively with Brook on the floor.

That number becomes even more awestriking when you realize Bobby Portis was the center when Brook sat.

If the Bucks defense can put up a 106 defensivee rating versus the high powered Pacers offense with out Giannis, and Portis at center, then I dont think it will be a difficult task to find an actual center (not Portis) to replace Brook.

No one gives a **** about a few games versus the Pacers without the Bucks best player.

Then increase the sample size. The Bucks defense was 8 points/100 worse with Brook on the floor versus Miami in the playoffs the year before.

Those numbers are skewed because Giannis wasn't healthy. Please find me an instance where the numbers with both Giannis and Brook in the lineup which supports your argument.

[Frank Nova]

Also, maybe we trade Brook, maybe we don't, but I think we've all learned over the years that a GM saying positive things about a player he's asked about has no bearing on whether that player will be traded. He could even mean those things, and then mean them equally as much or more so about whomever we get back.

We don’t have the assets to include with Brook to land anything substantial so I can’t really see a trade developing now. 3-4wks ago the goal was to turn Brook into a wing and we did an admirable job accomplishing that without moving any pieces from the roster. Horst just set a precedence that Brooks value is extremely high to the organization so if another GM is interested in trading it’s gonna cost a lot. Is Brook actually available for trade? Probably. Is a GM likely to offer a deal for Brook that Horst is gonna see as a godfather offer? Doubtfully.

[emunney]

No one gives a **** about a few games versus the Pacers without the Bucks best player.

Then increase the sample size. The Bucks defense was 8 points/100 worse with Brook on the floor versus Miami in the playoffs the year before.

Those numbers are skewed because Giannis wasn't healthy. Please find me an instance where the numbers with both Giannis and Brook in the lineup which supports your argument.

The previous year.

[bdpecore]

Then increase the sample size. The Bucks defense was 8 points/100 worse with Brook on the floor versus Miami in the playoffs the year before.

Those numbers are skewed because Giannis wasn't healthy. Please find me an instance where the numbers with both Giannis and Brook in the lineup which supports your argument.

The previous year.

What specifically were the advanced stats for the 2022 playoffs that back his argument?

[emunney]

Those numbers are skewed because Giannis wasn't healthy. Please find me an instance where the numbers with both Giannis and Brook in the lineup which supports your argument.

The previous year.

What specifically were the advanced stats for the 2022 playoffs that back his argument?

[Ron Swanson]

And according to the lineup data, Jrue was our best/most impactful guy during the championship run (+14.8) as well as the 2023 series vs. Miami (+24.9). Using small playoff sample sizes is funny that way.

[M-C-G]

Just playing with the trade machine seeing Grant is on the market. Rough outline

MKE Grant, Timelord, Reath
SAC Lopez
POR Heurter, Pat C, Lyles, Marjon, ? Picks
4th team Bobby (ideally they can absorb him plus maybe a sweetener to Portland)

Seems to fit the direction we want to go. Portland saves long term money for players that don’t fit their timeline. Sac gets a stretch big to pair with Sabonis. Bobby is the extra asset we need to give up to make the salary work (or at least get close)

[yb90]

Brook just played way too much last yr. No reason it needed to be 30+, w/ Giannis & Bobby healthy in the regular season. Now we have more of a small ball option too, adding Prince, & w/ Livingston maturing.

We can reduce Brook's minutes to under 20 or less, & seldom have him finish games (match-up dependent). A lot of teams ceremoniously use their center like this. Then after the season, have his sizable contract expire for us.

It'd help a lot if we dealt/waived Beauchamp & picked up Achiuwa to switch on d, rebound, & space adequately. We could then trade Bobby for a lotto protected 1st & if the bigs prove insufficient, use that ammo to trade for one before the deadline.

I agree on everything except for the trading Bobby part. His scoring and rebounding off the bench would need to be replaced. Bobby has shortcomings but he is still a mismatch for most teams. If he only passed more he would be golden even with all his negatives.

I know Achiuwa is a free agent option but I think Jock Landale would be another guy to target.

[emunney]

And according to the lineup data, Jrue was our best/most impactful guy during the championship run (+14.8) as well as the 2023 series vs. Miami (+24.9). Using small playoff sample sizes is funny that way.

Ok, here's all 6 years combined

[Ron Swanson]

And according to the lineup data, Jrue was our best/most impactful guy during the championship run (+14.8) as well as the 2023 series vs. Miami (+24.9). Using small playoff sample sizes is funny that way.

Ok, here's all 6 years combined

None of this should come as any real surprise.

Giannis + Brook - GOOD playoff defense
Brook + Bobby (or washed Jae Crowder, Mirotic, Jingles, etc.) - BAD playoff defense
Giannis at Center - GOOD playoff defense

What's the actual common denominator here?

[emunney]

And according to the lineup data, Jrue was our best/most impactful guy during the championship run (+14.8) as well as the 2023 series vs. Miami (+24.9). Using small playoff sample sizes is funny that way.

Ok, here's all 6 years combined

None of this should come as any real surprise.

Giannis + Brook - GOOD playoff defense
Brook + Bobby (or washed Jae Crowder, Mirotic, Jingles, etc.) - BAD playoff defense
Giannis at Center - GOOD playoff defense

What's the actual common denominator here?

Well, at face value, seems like we need Giannis but do not need Brook.

[bdpecore]

Ok, here's all 6 years combined

None of this should come as any real surprise.

Giannis + Brook - GOOD playoff defense
Brook + Bobby (or washed Jae Crowder, Mirotic, Jingles, etc.) - BAD playoff defense
Giannis at Center - GOOD playoff defense

What's the actual common denominator here?

Well, at face value, seems like we need Giannis but do not need Brook.

Not true as it also shows Brook isn't a defensive liability when Giannis is playing next to him and teams struggle to score in the paint when both are on the floor.

[Ron Swanson]

If people wanna just chalk it up as a coincidence that the playoff defensive metrics for Brook looked great the only time in the last 3-years where we actually had a non-Giannis big/wing that wasn't an absolute trash pile on defense (PJ), then ok, I guess. Seems like Brook is more situational than Giannis and can't single handedly prop up bad defensive personnel around him, aka looks like we're reaching the "well duh" portion of Brook conclusions.

[emunney]

None of this should come as any real surprise.

Giannis + Brook - GOOD playoff defense
Brook + Bobby (or washed Jae Crowder, Mirotic, Jingles, etc.) - BAD playoff defense
Giannis at Center - GOOD playoff defense

What's the actual common denominator here?

Well, at face value, seems like we need Giannis but do not need Brook.

Not true as it also shows Brook isn't a defensive liability when Giannis is playing next to him and teams struggle to score in the paint when both are on the floor.

If you're drawing that conclusion, you also have to draw the conclusion that Brook is a substantial offensive liability playing next to Giannis.