RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[DimesandKnicks]

The Olympics matter but are such a miniscule part of the GOAT argument. They shouldn't change anyone's opinion on who the GOAT is. Both sides do keep fishing though.

Yeah I agree but also winning with a Superteam the whole 90's with the best Point Forward Defender of all time doesn't really show greatness, especially while having the Greatest coach of all time

Super team? The Bulls were Jordan and one other All Star in Pippen. Rodman wasn’t an All Star in Chicago and Phil Jackson was a nobody when he took over in 1989. Doug Collins took the Bulls to the ECF in ‘89. Phil happened to be the coach when Pippen and Grant matured. That’s what made them contenders.

They won 57 games the year before Jordan retired and 55 games after. MJ is the goat but I imagine had the Bulls made it to the finals people might recognize how much of a gold locks opportunity Michael had to join such a great organization.

And Jordan’s second three peat definitely was a super team. Three HOFs and Harper and Kukoc off the bench could compete with any “Super Team” in any era

[RHODEY]

What a joke..Lebron shouldn't be in 2nd place. DUNCAN, KOBE, BIRD , MAGIC, HAKEEM, KAREEM, CURRY were all better,

[Bash1676]

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Now I've heard it all. Lebron fans are beyond insane. And yes at this point Nick Wright is just a Lebron fan not a serious journalist.

An average fan will agree curry was the MVP. That should actually answer your question right there.

Americans are expected to win the gold. Wining was the norm and not winning will be anomaly. The cliche out there is that the rest of the world has caught up and rightly so to an extent. The reality is that the US will always win if we have all our prime race horses out there. This does no help lebron's goat debate just like losing and winning bronze at his 1st olympic.

[SweaterBae]

Nick Wright...

It says it all.

When he first started he was realy good, thoughtful, educated, rational takes. Then he realized you have to absolutely suck at the job to be successful at it. And he's become very successful.

[MavsDirk41]

Excuse me, did you hear me ever once say, “LeBron is the GOAT”? Because if you have, please submit the evidence of my claim.

Just because I’m responding to someone’s out-of-context claims doesn’t automatically imply I’m of the complete opposite opinion. Perhaps instead of you jumping the gun and assuming that, you’d consider that there’s an alternative, particularly if you took in the entire context of the conversation between myself and the other poster.

If that evidence doesn’t show itself, which I’m sure it won’t, adios.

Pistol i owe you an apology….i went back further and see what you are referring too. My fault brother i made a mistake!

I appreciate the humility. (:

I made a mistake man, least i could do is own up to it!

[NZB2323]

We counting Olympic medals now?


As ReddoverKobe would say "it's a cult"

Funny how Jordan fans are a cult but James fans are just presenting facts…wanna explain that lol?

Should Kevin Durant be ranked ahead of Kareem and Wilt because he has 4 gold medals and they have none?

[RoyceDa59]

This LeBron gold adds to his resume but doesn’t put him above Jordan yet for me.

However, if LeBron wins another chip, with a finals MVP, I think that would do it.

[Ballerhogger]

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Now I've heard it all. Lebron fans are beyond insane. And yes at this point Nick Wright is just a Lebron fan not a serious journalist.

Hahaha no 6/6 Jordan is fine

[ckman]

Curry saved US ass and Lebron the GOAT

[TheGOATRises007]

We counting Olympic medals now?


As ReddoverKobe would say "it's a cult"

Both sides as bad as each other, but 1 side pretends it's not.

[SportsGuru08]

Yeah I agree but also winning with a Superteam the whole 90's with the best Point Forward Defender of all time doesn't really show greatness, especially while having the Greatest coach of all time

Super team? The Bulls were Jordan and one other All Star in Pippen. Rodman wasn’t an All Star in Chicago and Phil Jackson was a nobody when he took over in 1989. Doug Collins took the Bulls to the ECF in ‘89. Phil happened to be the coach when Pippen and Grant matured. That’s what made them contenders.

They won 57 games the year before Jordan retired and 55 games after. MJ is the goat but I imagine had the Bulls made it to the finals people might recognize how much of a gold locks opportunity Michael had to join such a great organization.

And Jordan’s second three peat definitely was a super team. Three HOFs and Harper and Kukoc off the bench could compete with any “Super Team” in any era

Rodman's best days were in Detroit. In Chicago, he was offensively challenged even by his standards. Pippen's playoff performances in the second three peat were a gigantic step backward from the first. Harper never fit the triangle as a scorer; even before Michael returned in March '95, Harper was averaging less than 10 PPG.

[SportsGuru08]

Curry saved US ass and Lebron the GOAT

Very reminiscent of Ray Allen in the 2013 Finals.

[Hair Jordan]

Yeah I agree but also winning with a Superteam the whole 90's with the best Point Forward Defender of all time doesn't really show greatness, especially while having the Greatest coach of all time

Super team? The Bulls were Jordan and one other All Star in Pippen. Rodman wasn’t an All Star in Chicago and Phil Jackson was a nobody when he took over in 1989. Doug Collins took the Bulls to the ECF in ‘89. Phil happened to be the coach when Pippen and Grant matured. That’s what made them contenders.

They won 57 games the year before Jordan retired and 55 games after. MJ is the goat but I imagine had the Bulls made it to the finals people might recognize how much of a gold locks opportunity Michael had to join such a great organization.

And Jordan’s second three peat definitely was a super team. Three HOFs and Harper and Kukoc off the bench could compete with any “Super Team” in any era

Jordan joined a great organization The Bulls never made a Finals appearance before his arrival and haven’t made one since he left but they did manage to win 6 titles in his 11 full seasons with the team. Do you think that was just a coincidence? Also, the Bulls were no super team. Pippen was drafted and Rodman never made an All Star team as a Bull. By 1995, his defense was nowhere near his DPOTY peak as a Piston. He was basically a great rebounder and glue guy by then. Kukoc is a member of the basketball HOF but would never make the NBA HOF if they had one. Nice try though.

[DimesandKnicks]

Super team? The Bulls were Jordan and one other All Star in Pippen. Rodman wasn’t an All Star in Chicago and Phil Jackson was a nobody when he took over in 1989. Doug Collins took the Bulls to the ECF in ‘89. Phil happened to be the coach when Pippen and Grant matured. That’s what made them contenders.

They won 57 games the year before Jordan retired and 55 games after. MJ is the goat but I imagine had the Bulls made it to the finals people might recognize how much of a gold locks opportunity Michael had to join such a great organization.

And Jordan’s second three peat definitely was a super team. Three HOFs and Harper and Kukoc off the bench could compete with any “Super Team” in any era

Jordan joined a great organization The Bulls never made a Finals appearance before his arrival and haven’t made one since he left but they did manage to win 6 titles in his 11 full seasons with the team. Do you think that was just a coincidence? Also, the Bulls were no super team. Pippen was drafted and Rodman never made an All Star team as a Bull. By 1995, his defense was nowhere near his DPOTY peak as a Piston. He was basically a great rebounder and glue guy by then. Kukoc is a member of the basketball HOF but would never make the NBA HOF if they had one. Nice try though.

Let me correct myself. Was a part of a great organization; again, this is why they won 55 games and took the eventual eastern conference champs to 7 games. I don’t think there’s anything that demonstrates how good that team was then how good they were without him.

When I say super team I’m not limiting that to teams that were formed through free agency, I’m talking about a teams talent level. Pippen was drafted (by a good organization that also hired Phil Jackson). Rodman never made an allstar game as a Bull but who cares. He was the best rebounder in the league and still one of the greatest defenders of all time as a Bull. His first year he finished 6 in DPOY behind five of the greatest defenders of all time and was still all defensive first team. He actually finished top 15 in MVP votes.

Kukoc was literally the sixth man of the year for Jordan’s first ring of his second three peat and finished second in his second year.

Then, again, that roster was supplemented with guys like Ron Harper, who went from a 20 ppg scorer to playing bench minutes and being a defender, and guys like Kerr who I think still has the best three point percentage in NBA history.

Sir, this is a super team.

[guy1]

Nick Wright is really pathetic. That take really does not make sense. Lebron having 1 more gold medal then Jordan is about as noteworthy as KD having 1 more gold medal then Lebron and also separating himself as the only basketball Olympian with 4 gold medals, which pretty much has barely gotten any mention, because no one really cares.

And people digging up Jordan's Dream Team stats. This is how desperate Lebron fans have gotten? They are about as relevant as all-star game stats are today. Imagine someone trying to diminish Lebron cause he had 8 points on 40% shooting last all-star game? No one cares. I guarantee if Jordan knew and cared that his Dream Team stats may matter 30 years later, he would've went ahead and averaged 50 ppg during the tournament.

Comparing Jordan's Olympics to Lebron's Olympics are apples and oranges cause the Olympics are clearly more competitive now. Going forward they might deservingly have rankings implications between players but it doesn't really make sense to hold anything against players where the competition was either that lopsided or didn't exist - also goes for the in-season tournament or for awards that didn't exist during certain eras.

[Jcool0]

They won 57 games the year before Jordan retired and 55 games after. MJ is the goat but I imagine had the Bulls made it to the finals people might recognize how much of a gold locks opportunity Michael had to join such a great organization.

And Jordan’s second three peat definitely was a super team. Three HOFs and Harper and Kukoc off the bench could compete with any “Super Team” in any era

Jordan joined a great organization The Bulls never made a Finals appearance before his arrival and haven’t made one since he left but they did manage to win 6 titles in his 11 full seasons with the team. Do you think that was just a coincidence? Also, the Bulls were no super team. Pippen was drafted and Rodman never made an All Star team as a Bull. By 1995, his defense was nowhere near his DPOTY peak as a Piston. He was basically a great rebounder and glue guy by then. Kukoc is a member of the basketball HOF but would never make the NBA HOF if they had one. Nice try though.

Let me correct myself. Was a part of a great organization; again, this is why they won 55 games and took the eventual eastern conference champs to 7 games. I don’t think there’s anything that demonstrates how good that team was then how good they were without him.

When I say super team I’m not limiting that to teams that were formed through free agency, I’m talking about a teams talent level. Pippen was drafted (by a good organization that also hired Phil Jackson). Rodman never made an allstar game as a Bull but who cares. He was the best rebounder in the league and still one of the greatest defenders of all time as a Bull. His first year he finished 6 in DPOY behind five of the greatest defenders of all time and was still all defensive first team. He actually finished top 15 in MVP votes.

Kukoc was literally the sixth man of the year for Jordan’s first ring of his second three peat and finished second in his second year.

Then, again, that roster was supplemented with guys like Ron Harper, who went from a 20 ppg scorer to playing bench minutes and being a defender, and guys like Kerr who I think still has the best three point percentage in NBA history.

Sir, this is a super team.

FWIW in 1995 the Bulls had a 23–25 record at the All Star break. Jordan comes back and the Bulls go 13–4.

[DimesandKnicks]

Jordan joined a great organization The Bulls never made a Finals appearance before his arrival and haven’t made one since he left but they did manage to win 6 titles in his 11 full seasons with the team. Do you think that was just a coincidence? Also, the Bulls were no super team. Pippen was drafted and Rodman never made an All Star team as a Bull. By 1995, his defense was nowhere near his DPOTY peak as a Piston. He was basically a great rebounder and glue guy by then. Kukoc is a member of the basketball HOF but would never make the NBA HOF if they had one. Nice try though.

Let me correct myself. Was a part of a great organization; again, this is why they won 55 games and took the eventual eastern conference champs to 7 games. I don’t think there’s anything that demonstrates how good that team was then how good they were without him.

When I say super team I’m not limiting that to teams that were formed through free agency, I’m talking about a teams talent level. Pippen was drafted (by a good organization that also hired Phil Jackson). Rodman never made an allstar game as a Bull but who cares. He was the best rebounder in the league and still one of the greatest defenders of all time as a Bull. His first year he finished 6 in DPOY behind five of the greatest defenders of all time and was still all defensive first team. He actually finished top 15 in MVP votes.

Kukoc was literally the sixth man of the year for Jordan’s first ring of his second three peat and finished second in his second year.

Then, again, that roster was supplemented with guys like Ron Harper, who went from a 20 ppg scorer to playing bench minutes and being a defender, and guys like Kerr who I think still has the best three point percentage in NBA history.

Sir, this is a super team.

FWIW in 1995 the Bulls had a 23–25 record at the All Star break. Jordan comes back and the Bulls go 13–4.

They lost Horace Grant that year that I believe joined the Magic that year en route to beating those Bulls teams.

[Jcool0]

Let me correct myself. Was a part of a great organization; again, this is why they won 55 games and took the eventual eastern conference champs to 7 games. I don’t think there’s anything that demonstrates how good that team was then how good they were without him.

When I say super team I’m not limiting that to teams that were formed through free agency, I’m talking about a teams talent level. Pippen was drafted (by a good organization that also hired Phil Jackson). Rodman never made an allstar game as a Bull but who cares. He was the best rebounder in the league and still one of the greatest defenders of all time as a Bull. His first year he finished 6 in DPOY behind five of the greatest defenders of all time and was still all defensive first team. He actually finished top 15 in MVP votes.

Kukoc was literally the sixth man of the year for Jordan’s first ring of his second three peat and finished second in his second year.

Then, again, that roster was supplemented with guys like Ron Harper, who went from a 20 ppg scorer to playing bench minutes and being a defender, and guys like Kerr who I think still has the best three point percentage in NBA history.

Sir, this is a super team.

FWIW in 1995 the Bulls had a 23–25 record at the All Star break. Jordan comes back and the Bulls go 13–4.

They lost Horace Grant that year that I believe joined the Magic that year en route to beating those Bulls teams.

They had pretty much everyone else and had Toni Kukoc starting. Not sure he was that important to go from a #1 seed to #7.

[HMFFL]

I feel people are over-hyping the Olympics. The International game focuses more on the FIBA World Cup/Championship because the teams are better than the Olympic pool allows.

That being said, it's still crazy LeBron has won Gold in three different decades.

What's even more crazy is the success that Kevin Durant has achieved for the United States.

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[MystikSpiral]

Might as well factor in accomplishments in baseball and golf at this point....