Trades and Transactions Thread Cont'd - Where the Center At?

[3toheadmelo]

I'm thinking they're going to feature Mikal a lot early on to try and see if he can be that guy he was early with the Nets and in the playoffs against the Sixers when he averaged 24ppg on 43%. If Randle hasn't been given an extension before the season starts then you have to think that the Nova guys are priority over him and Mikal coming up on an extension as well will be kept happy since it cost so much to get him.

If they can get this version of Mikal -

Watch on YouTube

Then he assumes the role of number 2, and Randle drops down to 3, or maybe even off the bench as a 6th man.

Brunson already said on the podcast that Mikal’s role is gonna be in the middle of what he did on the Suns and Brooklyn. So I’m expecting around 17-19 PPG. I highly doubt they’re gonna let Mikal jack up 20 shots a game.

Brunson can say that, but at the end of the day they traded a ton of assets to get him and being a 17ppg guy would be an abject failure. He has to be more based on what they gave up and how little we can improve in the future through trades/FA, they need him to be a 22-24ppg guy if they seriously want to win a title. If he's the guy that averaged 24ppg against the Sixers in the playoffs, he's the second best player on the team and we'll win a title, if he's a 17-19ppg guy we're cooked.

Forcing Mikal to be a 2nd option is why he was so ineffective on the Nets though. He was so bad this year, that Cam Thomas leap frogged him as the #1 option on the team. When Mikal averaged 24 PPG in that playoff series he was inefficient and the Nets got swept. And he also stopped playing defense. When he was the 3rd-4th option on the Suns, they went to the finals. I think getting an efficient 17-19 points with lockdown defense is a much better avenue for success than forcing an inefficient 24 PPG with no defense. We're likely gonna get 25-28 PPG from Brunson, Randle should give us 20-25 PPG, Mikal with 17-19 PPG. That's a lot of scoring. OG will probably give us 15 PPG too. And now we have Donte as a 6th man who's gonna torch benches.

[R-DAWG]

agreed. and in a lot of ways this is how the celtics built their team. neither one of their 2 guys are really good enough to lead you to a championship but they put enough talent around them that they didn't need to be. tatum can have a mediocre finals and it doesn't matter. the only problem with the knicks building their team like the celtics is that their starting 5 isn't quite as good and that's who they have to beat.

to be fair though....the knicks, correctly in my eyes, realized they weren't getting any of the big names they were hoping for (embiid, giannis, whoever) anytime soon and this was a move they could make. in a vacuum it's an overpay, there's no other way to see it. but if you wanted to build a contender around brunson while he's still in his prime (he'll be 28 in a week, this is his prime) you had to do something.

Expanding on this - as much as it pains me to say this - Tatum is better than Brunson and I think we can all agree that we would prefer Brown over Randle - especially in the playoffs.

But what makes the Celtics flow is having two ball handlers and two rim protectors surrounding their scorers - all 4 of which are above average defenders and 3 point shooters. The Knicks might have equal talent in spots 3-6, but the Celtics roster is more balanced.

But at the end of the day, for this version of the Knicks to hit their peak, they need Julius Randle to be good. And to upgrade the roster in the near term future, they need that Detroit pick to convey as a lotto pick.

I will just never subscribe to the we needed to do something so it makes sense to overpay narrative. Not when the cost is this significant in terms of future assets. And the infliction point for me is the picks beyond 2027.

They probably needed to do something but not necessarily this. I think I would mind the overpay less if I believed this made us a significant favorite to win it all but I can’t say that’s my feeling. Not that they couldn’t but nobody would pick them.

I actually think that coming off a season where you get to game 7 of the 2nd round with all the injuries was the perfect offseason to run it back while making small moves in the margins.

The healthy version of our team from last year needed another scorer/shot maker. That could have been Bogdonovic at the start of the season. Other targets could have been Malcom Brogdon or Norm Powell - both could have been acquired for at most a 2024 1st, likely a pair of 2nds. Let’s say Brogdan would have been the realistic target.

And had we not been all-in, it’s easier to stomach running with Mitch/Precious at C.

Brunson/DDV/Anunoby/Randle/Mitch
McBride/Brogdon/Hart/Precious

Sitting with all your own 1sts, an extra 25 1st, an extra 25 2nd along with the Was/Det protected picks.

Might be a regular season team that wins 3-5 fewer games, but probably has the same playoff outcome.

[R-DAWG]

Brunson already said on the podcast that Mikal’s role is gonna be in the middle of what he did on the Suns and Brooklyn. So I’m expecting around 17-19 PPG. I highly doubt they’re gonna let Mikal jack up 20 shots a game.

Brunson can say that, but at the end of the day they traded a ton of assets to get him and being a 17ppg guy would be an abject failure. He has to be more based on what they gave up and how little we can improve in the future through trades/FA, they need him to be a 22-24ppg guy if they seriously want to win a title. If he's the guy that averaged 24ppg against the Sixers in the playoffs, he's the second best player on the team and we'll win a title, if he's a 17-19ppg guy we're cooked.

Forcing Mikal to be a 2nd option is why he was so ineffective on the Nets though. He was so bad this year, that Cam Thomas leap frogged him as the #1 option on the team. When Mikal averaged 24 PPG in that playoff series he was inefficient and the Nets got swept. And he also stopped playing defense. When he was the 3rd-4th option on the Suns, they went to the finals. I think getting an efficient 17-19 points with lockdown defense is a much better avenue for success than forcing an inefficient 24 PPG with no defense. We're likely gonna get 25-28 PPG from Brunson, Randle should give us 20-25 PPG, Mikal with 17-19 PPG. That's a lot of scoring. OG will probably give us 15 PPG too. And now we have Donte as a 6th man who's gonna torch benches.

Which all ties back to the need for Randle

[JayTWill]

Brunson already said on the podcast that Mikal’s role is gonna be in the middle of what he did on the Suns and Brooklyn. So I’m expecting around 17-19 PPG. I highly doubt they’re gonna let Mikal jack up 20 shots a game.

Brunson can say that, but at the end of the day they traded a ton of assets to get him and being a 17ppg guy would be an abject failure. He has to be more based on what they gave up and how little we can improve in the future through trades/FA, they need him to be a 22-24ppg guy if they seriously want to win a title. If he's the guy that averaged 24ppg against the Sixers in the playoffs, he's the second best player on the team and we'll win a title, if he's a 17-19ppg guy we're cooked.

Forcing Mikal to be a 2nd option is why he was so ineffective on the Nets though. He was so bad this year, that Cam Thomas leap frogged him as the #1 option on the team. When Mikal averaged 24 PPG in that playoff series he was inefficient and the Nets got swept. And he also stopped playing defense. When he was the 3rd-4th option on the Suns, they went to the finals. I think getting an efficient 17-19 points with lockdown defense is a much better avenue for success than forcing an inefficient 24 PPG with no defense. We're likely gonna get 25-28 PPG from Brunson, Randle should give us 20-25 PPG, Mikal with 17-19 PPG. That's a lot of scoring. OG will probably give us 15 PPG too. And now we have Donte as a 6th man who's gonna torch benches.

Isn't the way you described Mikal in Brooklyn basically the same description that could be given of Randle in New York? Neither one of them would be my ideal second option but why are you so much higher on Randle in that role based on the flaws you described in Mikal's game? I agree that I prefer Mikal as a more efficient 3rd option that defends at a high level but I imagine that Randle would have looked worse than he did last year if he was on that Nets team too.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Brunson already said on the podcast that Mikal’s role is gonna be in the middle of what he did on the Suns and Brooklyn. So I’m expecting around 17-19 PPG. I highly doubt they’re gonna let Mikal jack up 20 shots a game.

Brunson can say that, but at the end of the day they traded a ton of assets to get him and being a 17ppg guy would be an abject failure. He has to be more based on what they gave up and how little we can improve in the future through trades/FA, they need him to be a 22-24ppg guy if they seriously want to win a title. If he's the guy that averaged 24ppg against the Sixers in the playoffs, he's the second best player on the team and we'll win a title, if he's a 17-19ppg guy we're cooked.

Forcing Mikal to be a 2nd option is why he was so ineffective on the Nets though. He was so bad this year, that Cam Thomas leap frogged him as the #1 option on the team. When Mikal averaged 24 PPG in that playoff series he was inefficient and the Nets got swept. And he also stopped playing defense. When he was the 3rd-4th option on the Suns, they went to the finals. I think getting an efficient 17-19 points with lockdown defense is a much better avenue for success than forcing an inefficient 24 PPG with no defense. We're likely gonna get 25-28 PPG from Brunson, Randle should give us 20-25 PPG, Mikal with 17-19 PPG. That's a lot of scoring. OG will probably give us 15 PPG too. And now we have Donte as a 6th man who's gonna torch benches.

He was checked out this year and had no playmaker to play off, asking him to create everything for himself is a losing proposition and even then he still averaged 20ppg. He was at his best playing off Dinwiddie and getting a healthy dose of shots in 2022-2023, using his one season without any PG as a basis of anything isn't realistic, not when he was extremely effective just playing off someone who isn't 1/10th as good as Brunson. Mikal against the Sixers was more efficient than Randle has been in any series so far, If you judge them solely on their series as the guy, he's been better in the playoffs than Randle. They traded too much to get him for him to be just a 17-19ppg guy, he needs to be more than that because the price to pay to get him was extreme and leaves limited ways to improve. He should have a shot profile similar to prime Klay Thompson's and that is realistically how he should be viewed based on just how much they gave up, that was a superstar package and he needs to seriously outplay whatever his previous highs were for us to be a title contender.

He would basically be our Tobias Harris if that's all we're getting from him, you don't trade 6 picks for Devin Vassell level scorer.

[3toheadmelo]

Brunson can say that, but at the end of the day they traded a ton of assets to get him and being a 17ppg guy would be an abject failure. He has to be more based on what they gave up and how little we can improve in the future through trades/FA, they need him to be a 22-24ppg guy if they seriously want to win a title. If he's the guy that averaged 24ppg against the Sixers in the playoffs, he's the second best player on the team and we'll win a title, if he's a 17-19ppg guy we're cooked.

Forcing Mikal to be a 2nd option is why he was so ineffective on the Nets though. He was so bad this year, that Cam Thomas leap frogged him as the #1 option on the team. When Mikal averaged 24 PPG in that playoff series he was inefficient and the Nets got swept. And he also stopped playing defense. When he was the 3rd-4th option on the Suns, they went to the finals. I think getting an efficient 17-19 points with lockdown defense is a much better avenue for success than forcing an inefficient 24 PPG with no defense. We're likely gonna get 25-28 PPG from Brunson, Randle should give us 20-25 PPG, Mikal with 17-19 PPG. That's a lot of scoring. OG will probably give us 15 PPG too. And now we have Donte as a 6th man who's gonna torch benches.

Isn't the way you described Mikal in Brooklyn basically the same description that could be given of Randle in New York? Neither one of them would be my ideal second option but why are you so much higher on Randle in that role based on the flaws you described in Mikal's game? I agree that I prefer Mikal as a more efficient 3rd option that defends at a high level but I imagine that Randle would have looked worse than he did last year if he was on that Nets team too.

Probably cause Randle is a 2x All NBA player 3x all star and Mikal is neither

[3toheadmelo]

Brunson can say that, but at the end of the day they traded a ton of assets to get him and being a 17ppg guy would be an abject failure. He has to be more based on what they gave up and how little we can improve in the future through trades/FA, they need him to be a 22-24ppg guy if they seriously want to win a title. If he's the guy that averaged 24ppg against the Sixers in the playoffs, he's the second best player on the team and we'll win a title, if he's a 17-19ppg guy we're cooked.

Forcing Mikal to be a 2nd option is why he was so ineffective on the Nets though. He was so bad this year, that Cam Thomas leap frogged him as the #1 option on the team. When Mikal averaged 24 PPG in that playoff series he was inefficient and the Nets got swept. And he also stopped playing defense. When he was the 3rd-4th option on the Suns, they went to the finals. I think getting an efficient 17-19 points with lockdown defense is a much better avenue for success than forcing an inefficient 24 PPG with no defense. We're likely gonna get 25-28 PPG from Brunson, Randle should give us 20-25 PPG, Mikal with 17-19 PPG. That's a lot of scoring. OG will probably give us 15 PPG too. And now we have Donte as a 6th man who's gonna torch benches.

He was checked out this year and had no playmaker to play off, asking him to create everything for himself is a losing proposition and even then he still averaged 20ppg. He was at his best playing off Dinwiddie and getting a healthy dose of shots in 2022-2023, using his one season without any PG as a basis of anything isn't realistic, not when he was extremely effective just playing off someone who isn't 1/10th as good as Brunson. Mikal against the Sixers was more efficient than Randle has been in any series so far, If you judge them solely on their series as the guy, he's been better in the playoffs than Randle. They traded too much to get him for him to be just a 17-19ppg guy, he needs to be more than that because the price to pay to get him was extreme and leaves limited ways to improve. He should have a shot profile similar to prime Klay Thompson's and that is realistically how he should be viewed based on just how much they gave up, that was a superstar package and he needs to seriously outplay whatever his previous highs were for us to be a title contender.

He would basically be our Tobias Harris if that's all we're getting from him, you don't trade 6 picks for Devin Vassell level scorer.

I think you're putting too much stock into that playoff series. It was just a 4 game sample and his effiency in that series is heavily skewed by game 1 where he shot the lights out. He was absolutely terrible in the next 3 games. If you remove game 1, he shot 35% from the field for the rest of the post season, which is much worse than Randle was against the Heat.

I hear what you are saying though. We gave up a superstar package for him, so we should expect him to put up big numbers. I just don't see it happening though and from what Brunson said, it doesn't sound like he's expecting it either. I would love to be wrong though. If he can give us prime Klay production I would be estatic. I don't think he's capable of that imo. I think he's gonna be like Middleton, which I still think is really good as a 3rd option. We'll see though. Maybe I'm wrong and the Knicks plan to make him have a big role since they gave up a lot of him. I just hope he'll be ready for it.

[JayTWill]

Forcing Mikal to be a 2nd option is why he was so ineffective on the Nets though. He was so bad this year, that Cam Thomas leap frogged him as the #1 option on the team. When Mikal averaged 24 PPG in that playoff series he was inefficient and the Nets got swept. And he also stopped playing defense. When he was the 3rd-4th option on the Suns, they went to the finals. I think getting an efficient 17-19 points with lockdown defense is a much better avenue for success than forcing an inefficient 24 PPG with no defense. We're likely gonna get 25-28 PPG from Brunson, Randle should give us 20-25 PPG, Mikal with 17-19 PPG. That's a lot of scoring. OG will probably give us 15 PPG too. And now we have Donte as a 6th man who's gonna torch benches.

Isn't the way you described Mikal in Brooklyn basically the same description that could be given of Randle in New York? Neither one of them would be my ideal second option but why are you so much higher on Randle in that role based on the flaws you described in Mikal's game? I agree that I prefer Mikal as a more efficient 3rd option that defends at a high level but I imagine that Randle would have looked worse than he did last year if he was on that Nets team too.

Probably cause Randle is a 2x All NBA player 3x all star and Mikal is neither

So inefficient scoring in the playoffs is an issue for Mikal but not Randle. Being leap-frogged as #1 option by a smaller scoring guard is an issue for Mikal and not Randle and lack of defense when taking on a more featured role is an issue for Mikal and not Randle. Why? Because awards. The same awards Brunson did not receive in his first year in New York meaning he should not have been one of the top options in the offense either I guess.

[3toheadmelo]

Isn't the way you described Mikal in Brooklyn basically the same description that could be given of Randle in New York? Neither one of them would be my ideal second option but why are you so much higher on Randle in that role based on the flaws you described in Mikal's game? I agree that I prefer Mikal as a more efficient 3rd option that defends at a high level but I imagine that Randle would have looked worse than he did last year if he was on that Nets team too.

Probably cause Randle is a 2x All NBA player 3x all star and Mikal is neither

So inefficient scoring in the playoffs is an issue for Mikal but not Randle. Being leap-frogged as #1 option by a smaller scoring guard is an issue for Mikal and not Randle and lack of defense when taking on a more featured role is an issue for Mikal and not Randle. Why? Because awards. The same awards Brunson did not receive in his first year in New York meaning he should not have been one of the top options in the offense either I guess.

Did Mikal play on an ankle that required surgery?

Did Mikal get leap frogged by a top 10 player in the league?

[JayTWill]

Probably cause Randle is a 2x All NBA player 3x all star and Mikal is neither

So inefficient scoring in the playoffs is an issue for Mikal but not Randle. Being leap-frogged as #1 option by a smaller scoring guard is an issue for Mikal and not Randle and lack of defense when taking on a more featured role is an issue for Mikal and not Randle. Why? Because awards. The same awards Brunson did not receive in his first year in New York meaning he should not have been one of the top options in the offense either I guess.

Did Mikal play on an ankle that required surgery?

Did Mikal get leap frogged by a top 10 player in the league?

Did Mikal have a far superior first playoff performance as a #1 option without any all-stars/all NBA players on the roster against a far better team?

Is Jalen Brunson only allowed to be called a top 10 player now because of the All-Star/All NBA awards? Was even allowed to be called a top 50-100 player his first year in New York without these all important awards?

[Fat]

All I know is Ihart floater package will be severely missed. We might actually underachieve without Ihart

[HarthorneWingo]

All I know is Ihart floater package will be severely missed. We might actually underachieve without Ihart

But we have OG and Mikal to make up for it.

[Fat]

All I know is Ihart floater package will be severely missed. We might actually underachieve without Ihart

But we have OG and Mikal to make up for it.

Those guys aren’t centers though we have no versatility at center anymore

[HarthorneWingo]

All I know is Ihart floater package will be severely missed. We might actually underachieve without Ihart

But we have OG and Mikal to make up for it.

Those guys aren’t centers though we have no versatility at center anymore

Jericho Sims?

[RHODEY]

All I know is Ihart floater package will be severely missed. We might actually underachieve without Ihart

But we have OG and Mikal to make up for it.

and Randle

[Chanel Bomber]

A look at Aaron Mintz paying 3tohead to defend Julius on die internet

[JayTWill]

Question, if the Knicks for whatever reason decided that they did not want to move forward with Randle past his current contract would anyone be open to trading him for iHart if somehow Chet does not work at the 4 and OKC feels iHart's salary could be used for someone else other than 14-18 minutes as a backup center?

Would you keep Randle through the playoffs just to see the ceiling of the current roster? Would you look to trade him for a different type of player than iHart?

Losing Randle hurts the ceiling of the team offensively but bringing back iHart obviously fills the hole he left and improves the defense. OG can slide up to the 4, Mikal to the 3 and either Hart or DDV at the 2. Depending on how Mikal and the offense looks I would definitely be open to bringing iHart back.

For OKC they have a better complimentary big for Randle in Chet that can open up the floor unlike Mitch while also protecting the paint. They also have enough shooting and defense to surround him with while he won't be expected to carry the offensive load as often.

The reports are that there isn't a big market for Randle and there probably aren't too many teams willing to send out much positive value for iHart at $30million per.

[Besart19]

Randle and Mitch for Ayton, Grant and two picks

[spree2kawhi]

Randle and Mitch for Ayton, Grant and two picks

I’m in.

[TheGreenArrow]

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