Trades and Transactions Thread Cont'd - Where the Center At?

[3toheadmelo]

aggo in January when he saw us go 11-1 with Randle

[JayTWill]

Did Mikal play on an ankle that required surgery?

Did Mikal get leap frogged by a top 10 player in the league?

Did Mikal have a far superior first playoff performance as a #1 option without any all-stars/all NBA players on the roster against a far better team?

Is Jalen Brunson only allowed to be called a top 10 player now because of the All-Star/All NBA awards? Was even allowed to be called a top 50-100 player his first year in New York without these all important awards?

Did Mikal not average 35% FG for the next 3 games of the series?

Are you arguing that Mikal is a better player than Randle?

Why won’t you acknowledge that Randle played in the playoffs with one ankle that required surgery?

Did Mikal get leap frogged by a top 10 player?

We can continue the back and forth about rankings and awards and injuries and whatever but in the end I don't really care about any of that stuff. I'm not judging Randle or any player off of one bad playoff series or one great month. I am judging them by the entirety of their careers and where they are now. As a fan I just want to see the franchise attempt to build the best team for now or for the future.

If I am building a team around Brunson, a small scoring guard that is a poor defender Randle would probably be further down the list of players to compliment Brunson with than Bridges would be for me. If I could have Brunson at the 1 and a 2,3,4 and 5 version of Randle or a 2,3,4 and 5 version of Bridges I am definitely taking Brunson and 4 Bridges.

My ideal #2 to Brunson especially if it was a big like Randle would be someone that he could play a 2 man game with whether it be a limited pick and roll game, picking and popping out or just more general interaction like Jokic and Murray. Randle and Brunson don't do that.

I would like my number 2 option to be able to space the floor and play off-ball for my number 1 option. Randle does not do that as far as creating space on the interior. He does create more space for Brunson on the perimeter when Randle decides to get into the paint but he needs the ball in his hand to make a positive impact for the most part.

I would like my number 2 option to be able to carry the offense when my number 1 sits. The offense fell apart even in January when Brunson sat. Randle needs certain skillsets around him to be successful but the team is not being built around him. It is being built around Brunson.

Randle needs someone else to do the heavy lifting on the offensive end. Randle needs good/great defenders around him to cover his defensive weaknesses. Randle needs a solid rim protector behind him. Randle needs plenty of spacing to give him room to operate in the paint.

Brunson helps to carry the offensive load and also space the court but they are absolutely atrocious defensive pairing. Mitch has provided rim protection throughout his career which may be declining but he is an absolutely atrocious fit with Randle on the offensive end. DDV is a great floor spacer but another terrible fit with Randle and Brunson defensively. Hart is a better defender but another poor spacing fit with Randle and Mitch. Mikal and OG are probably the best potential fits for all players on the team.

I don't expect every player to be perfect but I expect my top guys to have more complete and less fit dependent games than someone like Randle. Most players on the team that solve one problem in his game create another potential problem. Randle hasn't shown to be good enough or consistent enough at his strengths to put so much effort into covering his weaknesses like Brunson has imo.

Knowing that there will likely be a non-shooting big on the court with Randle most times I would not be shocked if he struggled again in the playoffs with bigs like Embiid, KP, Turner, Allen, Bam having the freedom to wall of the paint and forcing Randle into the weaker parts of his game. If they take the non-shooting rim protector off the floor to space the floor it likely exposes the holes in our defense.

Honestly if the Knicks had a starting 5 of Brunson, Bridges, OG, Randle and healthy KP I would be perfectly fine with Randle as a #2 to Brunson. That team would have enough shooting, spacing, playmaking and defense to cover everyone's weaknesses. Unfortunately healthy rim protecting/floor spacing bigs are not being given away.

[Wildcat]

Did Mikal have a far superior first playoff performance as a #1 option without any all-stars/all NBA players on the roster against a far better team?

Is Jalen Brunson only allowed to be called a top 10 player now because of the All-Star/All NBA awards? Was even allowed to be called a top 50-100 player his first year in New York without these all important awards?

Did Mikal not average 35% FG for the next 3 games of the series?

Are you arguing that Mikal is a better player than Randle?

Why won’t you acknowledge that Randle played in the playoffs with one ankle that required surgery?

Did Mikal get leap frogged by a top 10 player?

We can continue the back and forth about rankings and awards and injuries and whatever but in the end I don't really care about any of that stuff. I'm not judging Randle or any player off of one bad playoff series or one great month. I am judging them by the entirety of their careers and where they are now. As a fan I just want to see the franchise attempt to build the best team for now or for the future.

If I am building a team around Brunson, a small scoring guard that is a poor defender Randle would probably be further down the list of players to compliment Brunson with than Bridges would be for me. If I could have Brunson at the 1 and a 2,3,4 and 5 version of Randle or a 2,3,4 and 5 version of Bridges I am definitely taking Brunson and 4 Bridges.

My ideal #2 to Brunson especially if it was a big like Randle would be someone that he could play a 2 man game with whether it be a limited pick and roll game, picking and popping out or just more general interaction like Jokic and Murray. Randle and Brunson don't do that.

I would like my number 2 option to be able to space the floor and play off-ball for my number 1 option. Randle does not do that as far as creating space on the interior. He does create more space for Brunson on the perimeter when Randle decides to get into the paint but he needs the ball in his hand to make a positive impact for the most part.

I would like my number 2 option to be able to carry the offense when my number 1 sits. The offense fell apart even in January when Brunson sat. Randle needs certain skillsets around him to be successful but the team is not being built around him. It is being built around Brunson.

Randle needs someone else to do the heavy lifting on the offensive end. Randle needs good/great defenders around him to cover his defensive weaknesses. Randle needs a solid rim protector behind him. Randle needs plenty of spacing to give him room to operate in the paint.

Brunson helps to carry the offensive load and also space the court but they are absolutely atrocious defensive pairing. Mitch has provided rim protection throughout his career which may be declining but he is an absolutely atrocious fit with Randle on the offensive end. DDV is a great floor spacer but another terrible fit with Randle and Brunson defensively. Hart is a better defender but another poor spacing fit with Randle and Mitch. Mikal and OG are probably the best potential fits for all players on the team.

I don't expect every player to be perfect but I expect my top guys to have more complete and less fit dependent games than someone like Randle. Most players on the team that solve one problem in his game create another potential problem. Randle hasn't shown to be good enough or consistent enough at his strengths to put so much effort into covering his weaknesses like Brunson has imo.

Knowing that there will likely be a non-shooting big on the court with Randle most times I would not be shocked if he struggled again in the playoffs with bigs like Embiid, KP, Turner, Allen, Bam having the freedom to wall of the paint and forcing Randle into the weaker parts of his game. If they take the non-shooting rim protector off the floor to space the floor it likely exposes the holes in our defense.

Honestly if the Knicks had a starting 5 of Brunson, Bridges, OG, Randle and healthy KP I would be perfectly fine with Randle as a #2 to Brunson. That team would have enough shooting, spacing, playmaking and defense to cover everyone's weaknesses. Unfortunately healthy rim protecting/floor spacing bigs are not being given away.

They did more pick and rolls when I-Hart was put in the starting 5. Can't reliable run pick and rolls with Robinson on the floor due to spacing. Spacing wasn't an issue with I-Hart because he's normally at the top of the key and could react where needed. Robinson on the other hand is almost exclusively near the basket. Sometimes even far too close to the pick and roll play. It's also why Robinson -- when starting -- was the person setting the pick because Randle had the luxury of staying out the why while bringing his man to him. Not so much with Robinson.

[R-DAWG]

A 25/10/5 guy that is usually 45+ FG% is more than an innings eater. The hate for Randle has really jumped the shark here.

He also looked like he was becoming more a team player last year. He absolutely commands doubles and even triples in the low post. He is way more than some innings eater.

If he picks his spots better as he was doing Post OG prior to injury the dude is 100% a viable #2 for this team.

That’s the problem with Randle.

He wants to be a 25/10/5 guy

But he’s not efficient enough to command that level of touches.

The sweet spot for Randle is 18/8/5.

Randle was scoring less before he got hurt and was trying to be more of a facilitator. Looked like he was finding a way to incorporate OG into the offense and being a better facilitator. He was pretty efficient and I imagine it will look even better with Mikal.

Read on Twitter

Randle has been a great regular season player who has struggled in the postseason. Hence the middle of the rotation innings eater. He grinds you through the regular season but you can't count on him at the biggest moments.

Look - we need regular season Randle to show up in the playoffs if we have any shot of making a deep playoff run.

[Wildcat]

That’s the problem with Randle.

He wants to be a 25/10/5 guy

But he’s not efficient enough to command that level of touches.

The sweet spot for Randle is 18/8/5.

Randle was scoring less before he got hurt and was trying to be more of a facilitator. Looked like he was finding a way to incorporate OG into the offense and being a better facilitator. He was pretty efficient and I imagine it will look even better with Mikal.

Read on Twitter

Randle has been a great regular season player who has struggled in the postseason. Hence the middle of the rotation innings eater. He grinds you through the regular season but you can't count on him at the biggest moments.

Look - we need regular season Randle to show up in the playoffs if we have any shot of making a deep playoff run.

He will. He's never played on a team this talented and with these expectations.

[KnixinSix]

That’s the problem with Randle.

He wants to be a 25/10/5 guy

But he’s not efficient enough to command that level of touches.

The sweet spot for Randle is 18/8/5.

Randle was scoring less before he got hurt and was trying to be more of a facilitator. Looked like he was finding a way to incorporate OG into the offense and being a better facilitator. He was pretty efficient and I imagine it will look even better with Mikal.

Read on Twitter

Randle has been a great regular season player who has struggled in the postseason. Hence the middle of the rotation innings eater. He grinds you through the regular season but you can't count on him at the biggest moments.

Look - we need regular season Randle to show up in the playoffs if we have any shot of making a deep playoff run.

He doesn't need to be at 25/26 ppg anymore but like those stats show and factoring in Bridges....20 pts a game on higher efficiency , 10 reb and about 6 APG.... that is well within his potential in this offense.

[thebuzzardman]

Pacers win the ECF yet?

[aggo]

Randle was scoring less before he got hurt and was trying to be more of a facilitator. Looked like he was finding a way to incorporate OG into the offense and being a better facilitator. He was pretty efficient and I imagine it will look even better with Mikal.

Read on Twitter

Randle has been a great regular season player who has struggled in the postseason. Hence the middle of the rotation innings eater. He grinds you through the regular season but you can't count on him at the biggest moments.

Look - we need regular season Randle to show up in the playoffs if we have any shot of making a deep playoff run.

He doesn't need to be at 25/26 ppg anymore but like those stats show and factoring in Bridges....20 pts a game on higher efficiency , 10 reb and about 6 APG.... that is well within his potential in this offense.

Randle wants 5/310

Jokes on you if you actually believe Randle is going to try and “fit in”

[aggo]

Pacers win the ECF yet?

Halliburton has played in the ECF and has a Olympic gold medal

Our guy lost to Germany.

[god shammgod]

aggo in January when he saw us go 11-1 with Randle

this has nothing to do with randle but i hate that people bring this up like it's some kind of certainty about how good the team is. it was a 9 game winning streak. we had a 9 game winning streak the year before too with rj & grimes in the starting lineup. and if you look at both years streaks what you see is that a good portion of the games were against bad teams. it's too small a sample to really act like we know we can do that all season.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

[bballoctober]

Pacers win the ECF yet?

Halliburton has played in the ECF and has a Olympic gold medal

Our guy lost to Germany.

And Halliburton played a major role with team USA, right!? And he’s not injury prone, right!?

[thebuzzardman]

Pacers win the ECF yet?

Halliburton has played in the ECF and has a Olympic gold medal

Our guy lost to Germany.

Brunson put the whole Knicks org on the Villanovan treadmill. Becky ultimately right.

[rajajackal]

aggo in January when he saw us go 11-1 with Randle

this has nothing to do with randle but i hate that people bring this up like it's some kind of certainty about how good the team is. it was a 9 game winning streak. we had a 9 game winning streak the year before too with rj & grimes in the starting lineup. and if you look at both years streaks what you see is that a good portion of the games were against bad teams. it's too small a sample to really act like we know we can do that all season.

no doubt it's reckless to glean too much from the sample size but over each 48 minutes we also looked really cohesive and tight as a unit including blowing out contenders. i'm more impressed by how we looked over that stretch than i am with the record itself. og is really the perfect lynchpin for a jb & randle centered offense imo

[3toheadmelo]

aggo in January when he saw us go 11-1 with Randle

this has nothing to do with randle but i hate that people bring this up like it's some kind of certainty about how good the team is. it was a 9 game winning streak. we had a 9 game winning streak the year before too with rj & grimes in the starting lineup. and if you look at both years streaks what you see is that a good portion of the games were against bad teams. it's too small a sample to really act like we know we can do that all season.

I don't think it's like those other streaks. During those streaks people were saying those were the best teams we had in years and I never felt that way. In January that was the best I felt about a Knicks team since 2013. We won by an average of 19.1 PPG and beat the Wolves, Sixers, Heat, Nuggets. It was super dominant. In other streaks that you mentioned we had we would barely beat teams. Of course we don't know if we can do it all season, but I feel optimistic.

[nykballa2k4]

We'll be more than OK come December....

Watch on YouTube

Never been a big Jonas fan, but I will gladly take him with open arms.

Well since some are concerned with missing Ihart's offense Vali gives you even more of that.

Ehh..

From the times I have watched Val in the NBA I have been unimpressed. He has had post ups against much smaller guys and been inefficient. I expected to see "mouse in the house" and sheer domination and that just wasn't the case for whatever reason.
Small sample size, but I would have liked to see him score with comfort and ease.
tangent - but it is probably also a symptom of the current times because sometimes a guy has to get going and after a prime post up opportunity, if you don't immediately cash in, it's back to launching 3's and trying to draw fouls rather than real basketball.
/tangent

[3toheadmelo]

aggo in January when he saw us go 11-1 with Randle

this has nothing to do with randle but i hate that people bring this up like it's some kind of certainty about how good the team is. it was a 9 game winning streak. we had a 9 game winning streak the year before too with rj & grimes in the starting lineup. and if you look at both years streaks what you see is that a good portion of the games were against bad teams. it's too small a sample to really act like we know we can do that all season.

no doubt it's reckless to glean too much from the sample size but over each 48 minutes we also looked really cohesive and tight as a unit including blowing out contenders. i'm more impressed by how we looked over that stretch than i am with the record itself. og is really the perfect lynchpin for a jb & randle centered offense imo

Im saying fam that was the best dominant stretch I ever seen by the Knicks since 2013. It felt unreal man

[Iron Mantis]

To be fair, that January team did have some impressive wins.

Nevertheless, the sample size is too small....so small that there was not even a scouting report out yet on the galvanized "new look Knicks", whereas the old team was well-scouted and game-planned for.. and yet still that old team ripped off some nice win streaks as well.

Overall, 12 games or so of a new-look team is just too small of a sample size to put too much stock in. We need more data.

This season and the playoffs will tell it all.

[Capn'O]

It's pretty unfortunate that we couldn't have gotten a sample of healthy Randle in the playoffs this past season, especially with the extension looming, but we didn't and we're still looking at a bit of an unknown with him.

[3toheadmelo]

It's pretty unfortunate that we couldn't have gotten a sample of healthy Randle in the playoffs this past season, especially with the extension looming, but we didn't and we're still looking at a bit of an unknown with him.

One reason I'm optimistic he's gonna end his playoff dooms is that he started to show promising signs against the Heat. He had a couple good games and was still a positive net rating with the best offensive rating on the team on one ankle. I have faith things will get better. I think the Knicks double downed on Randle with the Mikal trade since they didn't go after a budding star to replace Randle and instead used most of our assets on a glue guy to fit in seamlessly with the team. Time will tell if they made the right decision, but I think Randle will have his real break out this playoffs if he's healthy. He should be able to feast since he has so much talent around him this time around.