Breaking: Rogers Aquires Bell Stake In MLSE

[grimlock]

Welp, it was a good run guys.
Time to brace for the Harold Ballard era of Raptors basketball!

[ATLTimekeeper]

In this thread Rogers is already a cheapskate and a guy who spends foolishly. That probably means not enough is known. Reporters are complaining about lack of access means they don't know, either.

All I know is its a pretty bad near monopoly that somehow can turn good profits when its handed straight to them. Its kind of incompetent, or arrogant, or both

Rogers might end up making more money off MLSE than their core business.

Sure but what does it say about Bell who had to sell their stake? I don't think a monopoly of sports ownership is a good thing, and Ed Rogers has a terrible track record with the Jays. I'm against the notion that Bell either kept him in check or was going to give us anything different.

But if one guy wants his name all over Toronto sports, let's see how it goes. If he fails he'll be forever reviled.

[Randle McMurphy]

Another Masai Ujiri apologist clinging to the past after five years of complete failure and directionless leadership, I see. He's got a lot of them still, but at least we know that he won't have one in ownership shortly.

Nah. He was right. Pathetic take. How's that massive payroll working out for your ball team when the guy signing the cheques can't realize that everyone he's hired is incompetent?

Quick, tell us all again how the jays made the playoffs a few times (as if that's somehow an achievement with their payroll) and cry about how they play in a hard division.

AL East has often been referred to as the hardest division in sports, for good reason. Schedule and format changes have reduced that somewhat over the years. However, you can't compare playoffs between sports on the same basis.

While the schedule isn't as unbalanced as it was a few years ago, the unbalanced schedule is still a significant aspect of baseball (look at the 3 mediocre AL Central teams in playoff contention right now, largely due to the fact that they played the worst team in baseball history 13 times). If even this year's bad version of the Jays played the White Sox 13 times instead of the Yankees/Orioles 26 times, there's a decent chance they'd be in playoff contention instead.

That doesn't absolve the Jays' FO from building a bad baseball team this season, but it is context that shouldn't be ignored obviously. It also shouldn't be ignored that the Jays were a top 5ish team in baseball from 2021-2023 before this season. There's no reason to think Rogers wouldn't push to change the FO if we get another year of this kind of failure in 2025 or that Shapiro/Atkins will get the kind of free pass that Ujiri has gotten from MLSE for 5 years of awful mismanagement. Rogers is not putting an unprecedented level of investment into the organization for these kind of results.

[ItsDanger]

You could say this previous ownership was a success for the Raps, but it was a resounding failure for the Leafs. The same ownership group can't be praised for one side of the business but ignore the failures on the other side. The discussion on this topic is quite different with Leafs fans who perhaps aren't excited by this change but aren't unhappy about the old 3 owner system being gone.

[Randle McMurphy]

Supposedly Rogers are the 3rd or 4th richest owners in the MLB so them having the 7th highest payroll isn’t the huge deal some of you make it seem.

It's a huge deal in the context of how they've treated the Jays for almost their entire run as owners. I honestly think people forget how cheap they were in the early years, particularly when Ted Rogers was still controlling the company. Things have turned around completely in that regard as Ed has wrestled more control for himself in recent years.

[Tor_Raps]

This is rich, everyone and their mother chanting "Masai never tanks" but then when convenient, "Masai decided to lose". At best I could allow that for Tampa, but even then I don't fully agree. Every single other season he tried his damnedest to win, and trying to say otherwise is just, I don't even know how to describe how delusional that is.

Masai never intended to lose any season on purpose, just stop man, this is insanity.

You think he tried to win last season? Hired a rookie euro coach who moved our best player off ball. You call that doing everything to win?

You think that trading for established players instead of picks and prospects is trying to lose? Masai is doing what he is always doing, re-tooling on the fly and trying to lay tracks as the train is running, don't be obtuse, you've been watching him for over a decade now.

Guy hung onto OG/Siakam, tried to re-sign Fred and some people really wanna say he was trying to rebuild? Dude tried his best to win but failed miserably due to stupid roster construction.

Masai has been one of the worst executives since 2020 and our future outlook isn't that bright either. The contract extension that he totally deserved at the time seems like an overpayment as he hasn't been able to produce since.

That doesn't mean I want him fired but I do want simple acknowledge from his stans that he's gotta be MUCH better. He's shown he can do it in the past so let's see it going forward...

[ATLTimekeeper]

Bell/Rogers/Larry has been good for the Leafs. Not much they can do in a hard cap world but recognize the limitations, which is something that wasn't coming through with previous iterations that led to that long dry spell where they missed the playoffs like, 10 out of 11 seasons (some of which were when Bell/Rogers gained control of MLSE and permitted Shanahan to bottom out for Matthews).

Ultimately not much to complain about there. The Leafs drafted two of the greatest Leafs of all time in this stretch (Marner and Matthews are already 6th and 8th overall in career points). I think Nylander was under this ownership contingent as well, so there's going to be 3 top 10 Leafs of all time drafted. Ownership also swallowed Babcock's contract. It was a major coup at the time to land him and they ate that deal when they decided to fire him. Leafs fans can complain about playoff results, but they weren't even making the playoffs before, and their previous good stretch of hockey was in a non-cap landscape.

[Johnny Bball]

In this thread Rogers is already a cheapskate and a guy who spends foolishly. That probably means not enough is known. Reporters are complaining about lack of access means they don't know, either.

All I know is its a pretty bad near monopoly that somehow can turn good profits when its handed straight to them. Its kind of incompetent, or arrogant, or both

Rogers might end up making more money off MLSE than their core business.

Sure but what does it say about Bell who had to sell their stake? I don't think a monopoly of sports ownership is a good thing, and Ed Rogers has a terrible track record with the Jays. I'm against the notion that Bell either kept him in check or was going to give us anything different.

But if one guy wants his name all over Toronto sports, let's see how it goes. If he fails he'll be forever reviled.

I don't think Bell is particularly better run overall. But what Bell did do was keep him in check though by supporting Tannenbaum as the Chairman of the Board and having him really mostly run the team. Tannenbaum had done a better job than anyone in the history of MLSE fwiw, in our lifetimes. I don't see how Rogers doesn't fail given its history.

[Raps in 4]

Another Masai Ujiri apologist clinging to the past after five years of complete failure and directionless leadership, I see. He's got a lot of them still, but at least we know that he won't have one in ownership shortly.

Nah. He was right. Pathetic take. How's that massive payroll working out for your ball team when the guy signing the cheques can't realize that everyone he's hired is incompetent?

Quick, tell us all again how the jays made the playoffs a few times (as if that's somehow an achievement with their payroll) and cry about how they play in a hard division.

AL East has often been referred to as the hardest division in sports, for good reason. Schedule and format changes have reduced that somewhat over the years. However, you can't compare playoffs between sports on the same basis.

Tampa Bay routinely makes the playoffs in that division with a pay roll smaller than Ed's hooker budget. The "division is hard" excuse is just something Rogers apologists like to use to defend their corporate masters.

[Raps in 4]

In this thread Rogers is already a cheapskate and a guy who spends foolishly. That probably means not enough is known. Reporters are complaining about lack of access means they don't know, either.

Rogers only recently started spending on the Jays, and even then, they're spending less than they could. They could easily afford a top-5 pay roll every year.

But the problem isn't how much they spend (or don't). It's the James Dolan-like decision-making and meddling of Ed Rogers that's the problem.

[ItsDanger]

Nah. He was right. Pathetic take. How's that massive payroll working out for your ball team when the guy signing the cheques can't realize that everyone he's hired is incompetent?

Quick, tell us all again how the jays made the playoffs a few times (as if that's somehow an achievement with their payroll) and cry about how they play in a hard division.

AL East has often been referred to as the hardest division in sports, for good reason. Schedule and format changes have reduced that somewhat over the years. However, you can't compare playoffs between sports on the same basis.

Tampa Bay routinely makes the playoffs in that division with a pay roll smaller than Ed's hooker budget. The "division is hard" excuse is just something Rogers apologists like to use to defend their corporate masters.

Jays had to play their division opponents 18? times each. While other weaker divisions like the Central got a free ride to the playoffs. Its kind of consensus out there that the AL East division was the toughest in sports. They've changed it since. There are exceptions like TB but there are way more teams in that similar situation that struggle. Its just bad fortune that the Jays are in the same division as them.

[Raps in 4]

Accounting for the strength of their division and the unbalanced schedule, they were easily a top 5 team in 2021-2022. Less so in 2023 but they still made the playoffs out of the toughest division in baseball that season. Definitely top 10 that year.

And no, making the playoffs in MLB (a stage where any team can win/make a WS) is not the definition of a treadmill team. What the Raptors were for the last 3 seasons where they actively tried to be the 16th best team in the league certainly constitutes that.

What any of this Shapiro/Atkins/Jays stuff has to do with Masai Ujiri completely failing at his job over the last five years, though, I’m not sure. It’s a nice diversion tactic by you, I suppose, but the sooner they get rid of him the better and all signs point to Ed Rogers as being the owner to do it.

You said Rogers taking over the Raptors is a good thing.

I'm showing you why it isn't. Shapiro was Ed's pick to run the Blue Jays. The hire led to a decade of mediocrity.

I have no issues with Masai being replaced. I have every issue with Ed being the one selecting his replacement.

It's miles better than the status quo where the current ownership has let Masai Ujiri absolutely destroy this franchise for the last 5 years with no repercussions. And there was absolutely no reason to think this was changing any time soon as long as Tanenbaum and his allies at Bell held control. Now they don't. It seems very simple to me how this is beneficial from that standpoint alone (beyond the fact that Rogers has invested an unprecedented amount of money into the Jays over the last five years and shown a willingness to improve both the team and the fan experience).

Ed has given Shapiro free rein to run the Jays into the ground for 8 years because they're best friends. If you think nepo hires are over once Rogers has full control, I have a bridge you might be interested in buying.

Giving ownership of all our sports teams to Canada's James Dolan is not a good thing. I fully expect to see you here complaining about the new GM in 5 years because nothing will have changed.

[Randle McMurphy]

Nah. He was right. Pathetic take. How's that massive payroll working out for your ball team when the guy signing the cheques can't realize that everyone he's hired is incompetent?

Quick, tell us all again how the jays made the playoffs a few times (as if that's somehow an achievement with their payroll) and cry about how they play in a hard division.

AL East has often been referred to as the hardest division in sports, for good reason. Schedule and format changes have reduced that somewhat over the years. However, you can't compare playoffs between sports on the same basis.

Tampa Bay routinely makes the playoffs in that division with a pay roll smaller than Ed's hooker budget. The "division is hard" excuse is just something Rogers apologists like to use to defend their corporate masters.

You can't possibly think the Royals, Twins, and Tigers are any good this season, right? Two of them are making the playoffs and it's not because those teams were built well. It's entirely because they played a way easier schedule than teams such as Boston or Seattle.

[Raps in 4]

AL East has often been referred to as the hardest division in sports, for good reason. Schedule and format changes have reduced that somewhat over the years. However, you can't compare playoffs between sports on the same basis.

Tampa Bay routinely makes the playoffs in that division with a pay roll smaller than Ed's hooker budget. The "division is hard" excuse is just something Rogers apologists like to use to defend their corporate masters.

Jays had to play their division opponents 18? times each. While other weaker divisions like the Central got a free ride to the playoffs. Its kind of consensus out there that the AL East division was the toughest in sports. They've changed it since. There are exceptions like TB but there are way more teams in that similar situation that struggle. Its just bad fortune that the Jays are in the same division as them.

In this easier schedule era, with the Red Sox and Rays being terrible, the Jays are 17 games back of the division lead and 8 games back of the third wild card, with the 7th highest payroll in baseball.

This is all on Shapiro/Atkins and the idiot who hired them (and refuses to fire them because he's friends with Shapiro).

[Randle McMurphy]

You said Rogers taking over the Raptors is a good thing.

I'm showing you why it isn't. Shapiro was Ed's pick to run the Blue Jays. The hire led to a decade of mediocrity.

I have no issues with Masai being replaced. I have every issue with Ed being the one selecting his replacement.

It's miles better than the status quo where the current ownership has let Masai Ujiri absolutely destroy this franchise for the last 5 years with no repercussions. And there was absolutely no reason to think this was changing any time soon as long as Tanenbaum and his allies at Bell held control. Now they don't. It seems very simple to me how this is beneficial from that standpoint alone (beyond the fact that Rogers has invested an unprecedented amount of money into the Jays over the last five years and shown a willingness to improve both the team and the fan experience).

Ed has given Shapiro free rein to run the Jays into the ground for 8 years because they're best friends. If you think nepo hires are over once Rogers has full control, I have a bridge you might be interested in buying.

Giving ownership of all our sports teams to Canada's James Dolan is not a good thing. I fully expect to see you here complaining about the new GM in 5 years because nothing will have changed.

If you label the last few years as running the Jays into the ground, I can't wait until you hear about what Ujiri has done with the Raptors since the 2020 offseason.

[Raps in 4]

AL East has often been referred to as the hardest division in sports, for good reason. Schedule and format changes have reduced that somewhat over the years. However, you can't compare playoffs between sports on the same basis.

Tampa Bay routinely makes the playoffs in that division with a pay roll smaller than Ed's hooker budget. The "division is hard" excuse is just something Rogers apologists like to use to defend their corporate masters.

You can't possibly think the Royals, Twins, and Tigers are any good this season, right? Two of them are making the playoffs and it's not because those teams were built well. It's entirely because they played a way easier schedule than teams such as Boston or Seattle.

Are you seriously arguing that the AL East is the strongest division in baseball this year? Baltimore, the team with the third lowest pay roll in baseball nearly won the division (again). The Central is much stronger this season. The Jays would fare no better in any division this year. They played like ass.

[Randle McMurphy]

Tampa Bay routinely makes the playoffs in that division with a pay roll smaller than Ed's hooker budget. The "division is hard" excuse is just something Rogers apologists like to use to defend their corporate masters.

You can't possibly think the Royals, Twins, and Tigers are any good this season, right? Two of them are making the playoffs and it's not because those teams were built well. It's entirely because they played a way easier schedule than teams such as Boston or Seattle.

Are you seriously arguing that the AL East is the strongest division in baseball this year?

I believe the post you were responding to made reference to the AL Central. Are you going to answer the question?

[Raps in 4]

You can't possibly think the Royals, Twins, and Tigers are any good this season, right? Two of them are making the playoffs and it's not because those teams were built well. It's entirely because they played a way easier schedule than teams such as Boston or Seattle.

Are you seriously arguing that the AL East is the strongest division in baseball this year?

I believe the post you were responding to made reference to the AL Central. Are you going to answer the question?

The AL Central is much stronger than the AL East this year. Unless you're going to tell me that the division with the better record and run differential is somehow worse because "I love Rogers".

[Randle McMurphy]

The Royals and Twins btw are under .500 this season if you erase their games against the White Sox. They're both statistically likely to make the playoffs right now.

Tell me again how the unbalanced schedule doesn't matter.

[Reeko]

Management aside, why do we assume that just because Edward has invested heavily into the Jays that means that he'll be willing to invest heavily into the Raptors? Are people so sure that Edward isn't a baseball and hockey guy first and foremost, his radio and tv stations certainly suggest that he is.