Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon

[One_and_Done]

Masai made many good moves early on, many of which you just named. That’s true of a number of GMs though. There was a time a reporter was able to ask Bryan Colangelo with a straight face “when you touch gold, does it turn into super gold?” That’s how well his tenure seemed to start. Dumars also had an incredible start to his GM career, where it seemed he could do no wrong. The thing about that kind of lightning in a bottle start, is that is wears off quick. Kind of like how a batter in baseball with a hole in his game will get exposed after he starts hot, unless he can adjust. Those who don’t adjust end up out of the league quick. Dumars was one such.

Masai of course is better than Dumars, he has a more prolonged period of success than him, across 2 franchises. However, in recent years he been a poor GM. There’s really no getting around that. It’s not so much the individual bad moves that kill him (e.g. the Thaddeus trade, the Poeltl trade, etc). It’s the lack of strategic vision that has been fatal. He has made bad moves and then doubled down on them. He assembled a badly constructed team, then blamed his top tier coach and fired him. That would never happen at truly elite front offices. Can you see Spo or Pop or Kerr getting let go because of a disappointing season that wasn’t the coaches fault? He couldn’t accurately guage the strength of his teams, and this led to all sorts of failures; in particular, hanging on to guys too long and losing them for either nothing (e.g. FVV) or for less than he could have gotten (e.g. Siakam, OG). You look at how OG, Siakam, FVV, etc, are playing elsewhere, and you have to ask why exactly Masai couldn’t build a playoff team around these guys. The answer appears to be the need to double down on his earlier decision that Barnes is a superstar, something I think there’s little evidence for.

The Raptors have been in limbo lately, and if Masai tries to chase the play-in again this year they’re likely to stay there. They need to embrace the rebuild they triggered by moving their vets. I don’t see the pathway for this team to become a contender, or even a 50 win team, without a major talent infusion. That kind of infusion is frankly hard to come by without top lotto picks. In this respect, Masai particularly reminds me of Dumars. Both were lucky enough to build a contender without bottoming out, due to freak circumstances that are not repeatable. They came away from this thinking they didn’t need to tank to rebuild, and that has left Toronto in such a weird place.

If I was a Toronto fan, I would have wanted the team to keep Nurse, be better constructed around existing guys, and just kept trying to win 50 games a year. With better moves on the fringes, that goal was entirely within their reach. Instead they’ve blown up the roster, but are stuck in mediocrity anyway, with seemingly no plan to get out of it. Just terrible.

[Rockazoids]

His reputation is pretty much based on fleecing the Knicks in two trades and hitting on his gamble that Kawhi Leonard would play basketball for a full season.

What 2 trades are you talking about?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/trades.fcgi?f1=NYK&f2=TOR
TOR won the 2013
July 10, 2013: The Toronto Raptors traded Andrea Bargnani to the New York Knicks for Marcus Camby, Steve Novak, Quentin Richardson, a 2014 2nd round draft pick (Xavier Thames was later selected), a 2016 1st round draft pick (Jakob Pöltl was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Jonah Bolden was later selected)

They didn't win this
December 30, 2023: The Toronto Raptors traded Precious Achiuwa, OG Anunoby and Malachi Flynn to the New York Knicks for R.J. Barrett, Immanuel Quickley and a 2024 2nd round draft pick (Jonathan Mogbo was later selected). Toronto also received a trade exception 2024 2nd-rd pick is DET own New York also received a trade exception

[Airmiess]

Id like to see someone as radical as Morey who doesn’t care about personality and player relations.
I feel like Raptors have become a Barney organization and it leads to middling talents being prioritized.

[iLLmatic860]

good gm, but he's been a bit overrated for years now

[PushDaRock]

The question is always who do you replace him with.

I think he's good but also overrated.

If he gets let go, Raps fans, don't despair.

The assumption would be that he gets replaced by a yes man who answers to Ed Rogers.

[PushDaRock]

Masai made many good moves early on, many of which you just named. That’s true of a number of GMs though. There was a time a reporter was able to ask Bryan Colangelo with a straight face “when you touch gold, does it turn into super gold?” That’s how well his tenure seemed to start. Dumars also had an incredible start to his GM career, where it seemed he could do no wrong. The thing about that kind of lightning in a bottle start, is that is wears off quick. Kind of like how a batter in baseball with a hole in his game will get exposed after he starts hot, unless he can adjust. Those who don’t adjust end up out of the league quick. Dumars was one such.

Masai of course is better than Dumars, he has a more prolonged period of success than him, across 2 franchises. However, in recent years he been a poor GM. There’s really no getting around that. It’s not so much the individual bad moves that kill him (e.g. the Thaddeus trade, the Poeltl trade, etc). It’s the lack of strategic vision that has been fatal. He has made bad moves and then doubled down on them. He assembled a badly constructed team, then blamed his top tier coach and fired him. That would never happen at truly elite front offices. Can you see Spo or Pop or Kerr getting let go because of a disappointing season that wasn’t the coaches fault? He couldn’t accurately guage the strength of his teams, and this led to all sorts of failures; in particular, hanging on to guys too long and losing them for either nothing (e.g. FVV) or for less than he could have gotten (e.g. Siakam, OG). You look at how OG, Siakam, FVV, etc, are playing elsewhere, and you have to ask why exactly Masai couldn’t build a playoff team around these guys. The answer appears to be the need to double down on his earlier decision that Barnes is a superstar, something I think there’s little evidence for.

The Raptors have been in limbo lately, and if Masai tries to chase the play-in again this year they’re likely to stay there. They need to embrace the rebuild they triggered by moving their vets. I don’t see the pathway for this team to become a contender, or even a 50 win team, without a major talent infusion. That kind of infusion is frankly hard to come by without top lotto picks. In this respect, Masai particularly reminds me of Dumars. Both were lucky enough to build a contender without bottoming out, due to freak circumstances that are not repeatable. They came away from this thinking they didn’t need to tank to rebuild, and that has left Toronto in such a weird place.

If I was a Toronto fan, I would have wanted the team to keep Nurse, be better constructed around existing guys, and just kept trying to win 50 games a year. With better moves on the fringes, that goal was entirely within their reach. Instead they’ve blown up the roster, but are stuck in mediocrity anyway, with seemingly no plan to get out of it. Just terrible.

What more could he have possibly gotten for OG at any point?

[Scalabrine]

It's probably time for him to go... Mans has been MID for a while now.

Nets would be lucky to have him.

[Scalabrine]

Id like to see someone as radical as Morey who doesn’t care about personality and player relations.
I feel like Raptors have become a Barney organization and it leads to middling talents being prioritized.

Both are Purple Dinosaurs.

[Johnny Bball]

Masai stopped caring a while ago. He wants to do diplomatic stuff in Africa. I believe he's only still the gm of the raptors because it helps him with his diplomatic ambitions.

Well that's asinine.

[___Rand___]

I said before he owed his entire rep to Pop for sending Kawhi to Toronto and not to LA and got absolutely lambasted by the Raps fans for it I still stand by that opinion

He built a great roster around Leonard. Stole Green in the trade with the Spurs as well. The Raptors would not have got past the 76ers if they did not trade for Gasol. Take a look at how great and deep that team was. Anunoby did not even play in the playoffs due to not being available.

Nobody in the US watch the Raptors. Because ESPN doesn't show Raps games. Unlike us who watch other teams who are in the US. They don't know jack. If Kawhi went to LA I don't think they'd win. Either LA team.

[azcatz11]

Masai stopped caring a while ago. He wants to do diplomatic stuff in Africa. I believe he's only still the gm of the raptors because it helps him with his diplomatic ambitions.

Well that's asinine.

I’m curious where he’s getting that from. Or if that is a fabrication out of his behind

[Scalabrine]

His reputation is pretty much based on fleecing the Knicks in two trades and hitting on his gamble that Kawhi Leonard would play basketball for a full season.

What 2 trades are you talking about?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/trades.fcgi?f1=NYK&f2=TOR
TOR won the 2013
July 10, 2013: The Toronto Raptors traded Andrea Bargnani to the New York Knicks for Marcus Camby, Steve Novak, Quentin Richardson, a 2014 2nd round draft pick (Xavier Thames was later selected), a 2016 1st round draft pick (Jakob Pöltl was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Jonah Bolden was later selected)

They didn't win this
December 30, 2023: The Toronto Raptors traded Precious Achiuwa, OG Anunoby and Malachi Flynn to the New York Knicks for R.J. Barrett, Immanuel Quickley and a 2024 2nd round draft pick (Jonathan Mogbo was later selected). Toronto also received a trade exception 2024 2nd-rd pick is DET own New York also received a trade exception

Jury is still out on this but that second trade was a very good trade for the Knicks. Unless RJ or IQ become legit All-Stars, I honestly dont really know where the Raptors are going with this core.

[One_and_Done]

Masai made many good moves early on, many of which you just named. That’s true of a number of GMs though. There was a time a reporter was able to ask Bryan Colangelo with a straight face “when you touch gold, does it turn into super gold?” That’s how well his tenure seemed to start. Dumars also had an incredible start to his GM career, where it seemed he could do no wrong. The thing about that kind of lightning in a bottle start, is that is wears off quick. Kind of like how a batter in baseball with a hole in his game will get exposed after he starts hot, unless he can adjust. Those who don’t adjust end up out of the league quick. Dumars was one such.

Masai of course is better than Dumars, he has a more prolonged period of success than him, across 2 franchises. However, in recent years he been a poor GM. There’s really no getting around that. It’s not so much the individual bad moves that kill him (e.g. the Thaddeus trade, the Poeltl trade, etc). It’s the lack of strategic vision that has been fatal. He has made bad moves and then doubled down on them. He assembled a badly constructed team, then blamed his top tier coach and fired him. That would never happen at truly elite front offices. Can you see Spo or Pop or Kerr getting let go because of a disappointing season that wasn’t the coaches fault? He couldn’t accurately guage the strength of his teams, and this led to all sorts of failures; in particular, hanging on to guys too long and losing them for either nothing (e.g. FVV) or for less than he could have gotten (e.g. Siakam, OG). You look at how OG, Siakam, FVV, etc, are playing elsewhere, and you have to ask why exactly Masai couldn’t build a playoff team around these guys. The answer appears to be the need to double down on his earlier decision that Barnes is a superstar, something I think there’s little evidence for.

The Raptors have been in limbo lately, and if Masai tries to chase the play-in again this year they’re likely to stay there. They need to embrace the rebuild they triggered by moving their vets. I don’t see the pathway for this team to become a contender, or even a 50 win team, without a major talent infusion. That kind of infusion is frankly hard to come by without top lotto picks. In this respect, Masai particularly reminds me of Dumars. Both were lucky enough to build a contender without bottoming out, due to freak circumstances that are not repeatable. They came away from this thinking they didn’t need to tank to rebuild, and that has left Toronto in such a weird place.

If I was a Toronto fan, I would have wanted the team to keep Nurse, be better constructed around existing guys, and just kept trying to win 50 games a year. With better moves on the fringes, that goal was entirely within their reach. Instead they’ve blown up the roster, but are stuck in mediocrity anyway, with seemingly no plan to get out of it. Just terrible.

What more could he have possibly gotten for OG at any point?

If he had moved him 2+ years out? A pick heavy rebuilding package, which is what he could have gotten for Pascal too. You either hang on to those guys and build a winner, or you move them well in advance and rebuild. Masai chose option 3; mediocrity.

[PushDaRock]

Masai made many good moves early on, many of which you just named. That’s true of a number of GMs though. There was a time a reporter was able to ask Bryan Colangelo with a straight face “when you touch gold, does it turn into super gold?” That’s how well his tenure seemed to start. Dumars also had an incredible start to his GM career, where it seemed he could do no wrong. The thing about that kind of lightning in a bottle start, is that is wears off quick. Kind of like how a batter in baseball with a hole in his game will get exposed after he starts hot, unless he can adjust. Those who don’t adjust end up out of the league quick. Dumars was one such.

Masai of course is better than Dumars, he has a more prolonged period of success than him, across 2 franchises. However, in recent years he been a poor GM. There’s really no getting around that. It’s not so much the individual bad moves that kill him (e.g. the Thaddeus trade, the Poeltl trade, etc). It’s the lack of strategic vision that has been fatal. He has made bad moves and then doubled down on them. He assembled a badly constructed team, then blamed his top tier coach and fired him. That would never happen at truly elite front offices. Can you see Spo or Pop or Kerr getting let go because of a disappointing season that wasn’t the coaches fault? He couldn’t accurately guage the strength of his teams, and this led to all sorts of failures; in particular, hanging on to guys too long and losing them for either nothing (e.g. FVV) or for less than he could have gotten (e.g. Siakam, OG). You look at how OG, Siakam, FVV, etc, are playing elsewhere, and you have to ask why exactly Masai couldn’t build a playoff team around these guys. The answer appears to be the need to double down on his earlier decision that Barnes is a superstar, something I think there’s little evidence for.

The Raptors have been in limbo lately, and if Masai tries to chase the play-in again this year they’re likely to stay there. They need to embrace the rebuild they triggered by moving their vets. I don’t see the pathway for this team to become a contender, or even a 50 win team, without a major talent infusion. That kind of infusion is frankly hard to come by without top lotto picks. In this respect, Masai particularly reminds me of Dumars. Both were lucky enough to build a contender without bottoming out, due to freak circumstances that are not repeatable. They came away from this thinking they didn’t need to tank to rebuild, and that has left Toronto in such a weird place.

If I was a Toronto fan, I would have wanted the team to keep Nurse, be better constructed around existing guys, and just kept trying to win 50 games a year. With better moves on the fringes, that goal was entirely within their reach. Instead they’ve blown up the roster, but are stuck in mediocrity anyway, with seemingly no plan to get out of it. Just terrible.

What more could he have possibly gotten for OG at any point?

If he had moved him 2+ years out? A pick heavy rebuilding package, which is what he could have gotten for Pascal too. You either hang on to those guys and build a winner, or you move them well in advance and rebuild. Masai chose option 3; mediocrity.

How many picks? 3? 4? 5?

[One_and_Done]

What more could he have possibly gotten for OG at any point?

If he had moved him 2+ years out? A pick heavy rebuilding package, which is what he could have gotten for Pascal too. You either hang on to those guys and build a winner, or you move them well in advance and rebuild. Masai chose option 3; mediocrity.

How many picks? 3? 4? 5?

It's about the upside and quality of the assets, not just the number. If you're getting 5 bad picks then why do it?

Masai has been getting the right assets for 5 more years in mediocrity.

[Johnny Bball]

I’m curious where he’s getting that from. Or if that is a fabrication out of his behind

I think we all know where its rooted.

[Johnny Bball]

Masai made many good moves early on, many of which you just named. That’s true of a number of GMs though. There was a time a reporter was able to ask Bryan Colangelo with a straight face “when you touch gold, does it turn into super gold?” That’s how well his tenure seemed to start. Dumars also had an incredible start to his GM career, where it seemed he could do no wrong. The thing about that kind of lightning in a bottle start, is that is wears off quick. Kind of like how a batter in baseball with a hole in his game will get exposed after he starts hot, unless he can adjust. Those who don’t adjust end up out of the league quick. Dumars was one such.

Masai of course is better than Dumars, he has a more prolonged period of success than him, across 2 franchises. However, in recent years he been a poor GM. There’s really no getting around that. It’s not so much the individual bad moves that kill him (e.g. the Thaddeus trade, the Poeltl trade, etc). It’s the lack of strategic vision that has been fatal. He has made bad moves and then doubled down on them. He assembled a badly constructed team, then blamed his top tier coach and fired him. That would never happen at truly elite front offices. Can you see Spo or Pop or Kerr getting let go because of a disappointing season that wasn’t the coaches fault? He couldn’t accurately guage the strength of his teams, and this led to all sorts of failures; in particular, hanging on to guys too long and losing them for either nothing (e.g. FVV) or for less than he could have gotten (e.g. Siakam, OG). You look at how OG, Siakam, FVV, etc, are playing elsewhere, and you have to ask why exactly Masai couldn’t build a playoff team around these guys. The answer appears to be the need to double down on his earlier decision that Barnes is a superstar, something I think there’s little evidence for.

The Raptors have been in limbo lately, and if Masai tries to chase the play-in again this year they’re likely to stay there. They need to embrace the rebuild they triggered by moving their vets. I don’t see the pathway for this team to become a contender, or even a 50 win team, without a major talent infusion. That kind of infusion is frankly hard to come by without top lotto picks. In this respect, Masai particularly reminds me of Dumars. Both were lucky enough to build a contender without bottoming out, due to freak circumstances that are not repeatable. They came away from this thinking they didn’t need to tank to rebuild, and that has left Toronto in such a weird place.

If I was a Toronto fan, I would have wanted the team to keep Nurse, be better constructed around existing guys, and just kept trying to win 50 games a year. With better moves on the fringes, that goal was entirely within their reach. Instead they’ve blown up the roster, but are stuck in mediocrity anyway, with seemingly no plan to get out of it. Just terrible.

You're not a Toronto fan or you wouldn't have wanted them to keep Nurse.

[nikster]

Masai made many good moves early on, many of which you just named. That’s true of a number of GMs though. There was a time a reporter was able to ask Bryan Colangelo with a straight face “when you touch gold, does it turn into super gold?” That’s how well his tenure seemed to start. Dumars also had an incredible start to his GM career, where it seemed he could do no wrong. The thing about that kind of lightning in a bottle start, is that is wears off quick. Kind of like how a batter in baseball with a hole in his game will get exposed after he starts hot, unless he can adjust. Those who don’t adjust end up out of the league quick. Dumars was one such.

Calling an entire decade of excellent GMing from 2010-2020 "lightning in a bottle" is ridiculous. And the last few years have been disappointing but hardly horrible

[PushDaRock]

If he had moved him 2+ years out? A pick heavy rebuilding package, which is what he could have gotten for Pascal too. You either hang on to those guys and build a winner, or you move them well in advance and rebuild. Masai chose option 3; mediocrity.

How many picks? 3? 4? 5?

It's about the upside and quality of the assets, not just the number. If you're getting 5 bad picks then why do it?

Masai has been getting the right assets for 5 more years in mediocrity.

Are you saying a team would have given up a bunch of lotto picks for OG?

[One_and_Done]

Masai made many good moves early on, many of which you just named. That’s true of a number of GMs though. There was a time a reporter was able to ask Bryan Colangelo with a straight face “when you touch gold, does it turn into super gold?” That’s how well his tenure seemed to start. Dumars also had an incredible start to his GM career, where it seemed he could do no wrong. The thing about that kind of lightning in a bottle start, is that is wears off quick. Kind of like how a batter in baseball with a hole in his game will get exposed after he starts hot, unless he can adjust. Those who don’t adjust end up out of the league quick. Dumars was one such.

Masai of course is better than Dumars, he has a more prolonged period of success than him, across 2 franchises. However, in recent years he been a poor GM. There’s really no getting around that. It’s not so much the individual bad moves that kill him (e.g. the Thaddeus trade, the Poeltl trade, etc). It’s the lack of strategic vision that has been fatal. He has made bad moves and then doubled down on them. He assembled a badly constructed team, then blamed his top tier coach and fired him. That would never happen at truly elite front offices. Can you see Spo or Pop or Kerr getting let go because of a disappointing season that wasn’t the coaches fault? He couldn’t accurately guage the strength of his teams, and this led to all sorts of failures; in particular, hanging on to guys too long and losing them for either nothing (e.g. FVV) or for less than he could have gotten (e.g. Siakam, OG). You look at how OG, Siakam, FVV, etc, are playing elsewhere, and you have to ask why exactly Masai couldn’t build a playoff team around these guys. The answer appears to be the need to double down on his earlier decision that Barnes is a superstar, something I think there’s little evidence for.

The Raptors have been in limbo lately, and if Masai tries to chase the play-in again this year they’re likely to stay there. They need to embrace the rebuild they triggered by moving their vets. I don’t see the pathway for this team to become a contender, or even a 50 win team, without a major talent infusion. That kind of infusion is frankly hard to come by without top lotto picks. In this respect, Masai particularly reminds me of Dumars. Both were lucky enough to build a contender without bottoming out, due to freak circumstances that are not repeatable. They came away from this thinking they didn’t need to tank to rebuild, and that has left Toronto in such a weird place.

If I was a Toronto fan, I would have wanted the team to keep Nurse, be better constructed around existing guys, and just kept trying to win 50 games a year. With better moves on the fringes, that goal was entirely within their reach. Instead they’ve blown up the roster, but are stuck in mediocrity anyway, with seemingly no plan to get out of it. Just terrible.

You're not a Toronto fan or you wouldn't have wanted them to keep Nurse.

I think anyone who blames Nurse is offbase. Nurse will go on to have a long and prestigious coaching career. I'm not sure Masai's GM career will go as well for him moving forward.