Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon

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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#41 » by Johnny Bball » Fri Sep 20, 2024 3:27 am

One_and_Done wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Masai made many good moves early on, many of which you just named. That’s true of a number of GMs though. There was a time a reporter was able to ask Bryan Colangelo with a straight face “when you touch gold, does it turn into super gold?” That’s how well his tenure seemed to start. Dumars also had an incredible start to his GM career, where it seemed he could do no wrong. The thing about that kind of lightning in a bottle start, is that is wears off quick. Kind of like how a batter in baseball with a hole in his game will get exposed after he starts hot, unless he can adjust. Those who don’t adjust end up out of the league quick. Dumars was one such.

Masai of course is better than Dumars, he has a more prolonged period of success than him, across 2 franchises. However, in recent years he been a poor GM. There’s really no getting around that. It’s not so much the individual bad moves that kill him (e.g. the Thaddeus trade, the Poeltl trade, etc). It’s the lack of strategic vision that has been fatal. He has made bad moves and then doubled down on them. He assembled a badly constructed team, then blamed his top tier coach and fired him. That would never happen at truly elite front offices. Can you see Spo or Pop or Kerr getting let go because of a disappointing season that wasn’t the coaches fault? He couldn’t accurately guage the strength of his teams, and this led to all sorts of failures; in particular, hanging on to guys too long and losing them for either nothing (e.g. FVV) or for less than he could have gotten (e.g. Siakam, OG). You look at how OG, Siakam, FVV, etc, are playing elsewhere, and you have to ask why exactly Masai couldn’t build a playoff team around these guys. The answer appears to be the need to double down on his earlier decision that Barnes is a superstar, something I think there’s little evidence for.

The Raptors have been in limbo lately, and if Masai tries to chase the play-in again this year they’re likely to stay there. They need to embrace the rebuild they triggered by moving their vets. I don’t see the pathway for this team to become a contender, or even a 50 win team, without a major talent infusion. That kind of infusion is frankly hard to come by without top lotto picks. In this respect, Masai particularly reminds me of Dumars. Both were lucky enough to build a contender without bottoming out, due to freak circumstances that are not repeatable. They came away from this thinking they didn’t need to tank to rebuild, and that has left Toronto in such a weird place.

If I was a Toronto fan, I would have wanted the team to keep Nurse, be better constructed around existing guys, and just kept trying to win 50 games a year. With better moves on the fringes, that goal was entirely within their reach. Instead they’ve blown up the roster, but are stuck in mediocrity anyway, with seemingly no plan to get out of it. Just terrible.


You're not a Toronto fan or you wouldn't have wanted them to keep Nurse.

I think anyone who blames Nurse is offbase. Nurse will go on to have a long and prestigious coaching career. I'm not sure Masai's GM career will go as well for him moving forward.



Of course you think that because you have zero idea of the very obvious reason to most raptor's fans and have no idea what I'm talking about or you're talking about before you then decided to type a bunch of unrelated text again.'

They fire Masai, and someone else will make him the next highest paid GM.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#42 » by One_and_Done » Fri Sep 20, 2024 3:31 am

Johnny Bball wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
You're not a Toronto fan or you wouldn't have wanted them to keep Nurse.

I think anyone who blames Nurse is offbase. Nurse will go on to have a long and prestigious coaching career. I'm not sure Masai's GM career will go as well for him moving forward.



Of course you think that because you have zero idea of the very obvious reason to most raptor's fans and have no idea what I'm talking about or you're talking about before you then decided to type a bunch of unrelated text again.'

They fire Masai, and someone else will make him the next highest paid GM.

Dumars fans thought the same after his incredible run from 00 to 08, even though the warnings were always there just like with Masai.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#43 » by Johnny Bball » Fri Sep 20, 2024 3:38 am

One_and_Done wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:I think anyone who blames Nurse is offbase. Nurse will go on to have a long and prestigious coaching career. I'm not sure Masai's GM career will go as well for him moving forward.



Of course you think that because you have zero idea of the very obvious reason to most raptor's fans and have no idea what I'm talking about or you're talking about before you then decided to type a bunch of unrelated text again.'

They fire Masai, and someone else will make him the next highest paid GM.

Dumars fans thought the same after his incredible run from 00 to 08, even though the warnings were always there just like with Masai.


And that has nothing to do with nothing and you still have no clue yet keep typing. :crazy:
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#44 » by One_and_Done » Fri Sep 20, 2024 3:44 am

Johnny Bball wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:

Of course you think that because you have zero idea of the very obvious reason to most raptor's fans and have no idea what I'm talking about or you're talking about before you then decided to type a bunch of unrelated text again.'

They fire Masai, and someone else will make him the next highest paid GM.

Dumars fans thought the same after his incredible run from 00 to 08, even though the warnings were always there just like with Masai.


And that has nothing to do with nothing and you still have no clue yet keep typing. :crazy:

It's true if you say so.

I think it's very clear that the Bucks and Suns both wish they had hired Nurse, and that about 25 teams in the league would throw big money at him once he's available. Guy looks set for a long career as an elite coach. Those are hard to come by.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#45 » by ItsDanger » Fri Sep 20, 2024 4:04 am

Seems like he's past his expiry date. Happens to the best of them.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#46 » by TheAlchemist » Fri Sep 20, 2024 4:37 am

I’m very critical of how Masai handled the raptors post championship.

That being said he’s a decent drafter and works on team chemistry a lot. He’s also had major wins in trades and hiring personnel.

Listing his draft picks in order:

Here is a list of players drafted by Masai Ujiri during his tenure with the Toronto Raptors, including their draft round and pick number:

1. **Bruno Caboclo** (1st round, 20th pick)
2. **DeAndre Daniels** (2nd round, 37th pick)
3. **Delon Wright** (1st round, 20th pick)
4. **Norman Powell** (2nd round, 46th pick)
5. **Jakob Poeltl** (1st round, 9th pick)
6. **Pascal Siakam** (1st round, 27th pick)
7. **OG Anunoby** (1st round, 23rd pick)
8. **Dewan Hernandez** (2nd round, 59th pick)
9. **Malachi Flynn** (1st round, 29th pick)
10. **Jalen Harris** (2nd round, 59th pick)
11. **Scottie Barnes** (1st round, 4th pick)
12. **Dalano Banton** (2nd round, 46th pick)
13. **David Johnson** (2nd round, 47th pick)
14. **Christian Koloko** (2nd round, 33rd pick)
15. **Gradey Dick** (1st round, 13th pick)
Safe to say we can add Fred Van Vleet to that list as well.

That makes it 3 all stars that he’s drafted (Pascal, Fred, Scottie).I think it’s safe to say 3 solid starters/role players: Norman Powell, OG, Poetl. And a bunch of Journeymen.

Trades he’s flat out won: Ibaka, Marc Gasol, Kawhi Leonard, Bargnani trade (Poetl) , Vasquez trade (OG), Rudy Gay trade (Vasquez, Patrick Patterson etc).

Personell wise he’s hired and helped the following:

Here’s a concise list of successful staff hired or promoted by Masai Ujiri:

1. **Nick Nurse** – *Head Coach* (2018)
2. **Bobby Webster** – *General Manager* (2017–present)
3. **Adrian Griffin** – *Assistant Coach* (2018–present)
4. **Patrick Mutombo** – *Head Coach, Raptors 905* (2020–2022)
5. **Teresa Resch** – *Vice President of Basketball Operations & Player Development* (2013–present)
6. **Alex McKechnie** – *Vice President of Player Health and Performance* (2013–present)
7. **Jama Mahlalela** – *Assistant Coach, Player Development* (2014–present)
8. **Dan Tolzman** – *Assistant General Manager, Vice President of Player Personnel* (2016–present)

All in all, even after the championship fumble after fumble (and yikes it’s not that great), he’s the best Gm Toronto had by far. He’s also a damn good GM / President in the league, and not Joe Dumars 2.0
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#47 » by Karate Diop » Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:12 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:It's probably time for him to go... Mans has been MID for a while now.


Nets would be lucky to have him.


Would be a downgrade from Marks.

Masai has stagnated in Toronto, he hasn't been able follow through on a vision and has not managed his assets well.

He's a good GM but whether it's because of complacency or something else he's not getting the job done.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#48 » by One_and_Done » Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:19 pm

Karate Diop wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:It's probably time for him to go... Mans has been MID for a while now.


Nets would be lucky to have him.


Would be a downgrade from Marks.

Masai has stagnated in Toronto, he hasn't been able follow through on a vision and has not managed his assets well.

He's a good GM but whether it's because of complacency or something else he's not getting the job done.

Yeh, I'd rather Mark's for sure.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#49 » by Mavrelous » Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:43 pm

Pulled off lots of lopsided trades that enabled him to stay comletetive way longer than expected, had a good eye for talent, and drafted well, but his last 3 years have been a total disaster class.
Lost FVV for nothing
Lowry trade was weak return
Kept Siakam and OG until the return nowhere near their level.
His FA signings have been failures
Mismanaged GTJ situation, picked up Bruce Brown option despite contract being clearly underwater.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#50 » by Scalabrine » Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:15 pm

Mavrelous wrote:Pulled off lots of lopsided trades that enabled him to stay comletetive way longer than expected, had a good eye for talent, and drafted well, but his last 3 years have been a total disaster class.
Lost FVV for nothing
Lowry trade was weak return
Kept Siakam and OG until the return nowhere near their level.
His FA signings have been failures
Mismanaged GTJ situation, picked up Bruce Brown option despite contract being clearly underwater.


Agree with you but just wanted to touch on the Brown contract: He's getting paid fairly and it's a tradable asset still.

22 million is what high level role players/6th men/elite utility guys get. It's on the higher end of that pay range but look around the league:
Anfernee Simons - 25
Cam Johnson - 23.5
KCP - 22
Bruce Brown - 22.5
DeAndre Hunter - 22.5
Dillon Brooks - 21
Josh Hart - 20
Malik Monk - 19.5
Keldon Johnson - 18.5
Norm Powell - 18.5
Grayson Allen - 17.5
Bogdan Bogdanovic - 17
Klay - 16.5
Dort - 16.5

Bruce Brown is on that level of player and his expiring contract is gonna be a valuable asset to a team that is trying to win right now. It was a smart move to keep him.

Everything else you said was correct.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#51 » by Fairview4Life » Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:57 pm

All of these supposedly major mistakes post title all just stem from giving the OG/Siakam/Fred team one last run by trading for Poeltl 1.5 years ago. They held on for 3 months and then when that team didn't really come together and Houston hired Udoka and pivoted to offer Fred the bag the Raptors decided to rebuild and blow it up. People talking about 4 years, 5 years, since the title etc are being silly. The OG trade wasn't "nowhere near his level", they got great value for OG. The Pascal trade might not have been for what he's worth (or what he would have been worth the previous year if they chose to not trade for Poeltl and blow it up then instead) but no one was actually offering anything useful for him. AJ Griffin and Deandre Hunter was Atlanta's offer in the summer. They wouldn't even throw in Kobe Bufkin. It seems like there were lots of teams that don't value what Pascal provides. It might make more sense to ask other teams why they weren't willing to beat Indiana's mediocre picks offer. Lots of teams could have used Pascal last season and didn't want to outbid Indiana for whatever reason.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#52 » by Mavrelous » Fri Sep 20, 2024 2:44 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Pulled off lots of lopsided trades that enabled him to stay comletetive way longer than expected, had a good eye for talent, and drafted well, but his last 3 years have been a total disaster class.
Lost FVV for nothing
Lowry trade was weak return
Kept Siakam and OG until the return nowhere near their level.
His FA signings have been failures
Mismanaged GTJ situation, picked up Bruce Brown option despite contract being clearly underwater.


Agree with you but just wanted to touch on the Brown contract: He's getting paid fairly and it's a tradable asset still.

22 million is what high level role players/6th men/elite utility guys get. It's on the higher end of that pay range but look around the league:
Anfernee Simons - 25
Cam Johnson - 23.5
KCP - 22
Bruce Brown - 22.5
DeAndre Hunter - 22.5
Dillon Brooks - 21
Josh Hart - 20
Malik Monk - 19.5
Keldon Johnson - 18.5
Norm Powell - 18.5
Grayson Allen - 17.5
Bogdan Bogdanovic - 17
Klay - 16.5
Dort - 16.5

Bruce Brown is on that level of player and his expiring contract is gonna be a valuable asset to a team that is trying to win right now. It was a smart move to keep him.

Everything else you said was correct.

Bruce Brown is much worse offensively than many on this list, many on the list were extended to stay on a competetitve team, Brown wasn't needed, cap flexibility was more important.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#53 » by Sixers in 4 » Fri Sep 20, 2024 3:32 pm

Overrated.

His number one accomplishment is drafting but how much of it is him and how much is his scouting?
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#54 » by nikster » Fri Sep 20, 2024 3:50 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:All of these supposedly major mistakes post title all just stem from giving the OG/Siakam/Fred team one last run by trading for Poeltl 1.5 years ago. They held on for 3 months and then when that team didn't really come together and Houston hired Udoka and pivoted to offer Fred the bag the Raptors decided to rebuild and blow it up. People talking about 4 years, 5 years, since the title etc are being silly. The OG trade wasn't "nowhere near his level", they got great value for OG. The Pascal trade might not have been for what he's worth (or what he would have been worth the previous year if they chose to not trade for Poeltl and blow it up then instead) but no one was actually offering anything useful for him. AJ Griffin and Deandre Hunter was Atlanta's offer in the summer. They wouldn't even throw in Kobe Bufkin. It seems like there were lots of teams that don't value what Pascal provides. It might make more sense to ask other teams why they weren't willing to beat Indiana's mediocre picks offer. Lots of teams could have used Pascal last season and didn't want to outbid Indiana for whatever reason.

Yeah I see the Pascal trade as disappointing, but have no idea how you can argue for getting a much better return for OG. People tend to overvalue draft picks
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#55 » by Fairview4Life » Fri Sep 20, 2024 4:07 pm

Sixers in 4 wrote:Overrated.

His number one accomplishment is drafting but how much of it is him and how much is his scouting?


The Bargnani trade, trading for Kawhi and Gasol and Ibaka...there was more than just drafting, which he was also very good at.

His number one accomplishment was having the second best winning % in the league for like 7 or 8 years after he was hired, just below the Warriors, and winning a title in Toronto. He took a team who's "glory days" were two 47 win seasons 6 years apart and made that the new floor for the better part of a decade. The top 8 winning % seasons in franchise history were under Masai. The Wizards haven't had a 50 win season in more than 50 years, and the Raptors had 5 straight under Masai. Christ you have some Raptors fans talking about 4 bad years and one of those years was a 48 win season with a definitely not consensus when drafted rookie of the year on the team. That's apparently the definition of a bad year under Ujiri.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#56 » by Scalabrine » Fri Sep 20, 2024 4:38 pm

Mavrelous wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Pulled off lots of lopsided trades that enabled him to stay comletetive way longer than expected, had a good eye for talent, and drafted well, but his last 3 years have been a total disaster class.
Lost FVV for nothing
Lowry trade was weak return
Kept Siakam and OG until the return nowhere near their level.
His FA signings have been failures
Mismanaged GTJ situation, picked up Bruce Brown option despite contract being clearly underwater.


Agree with you but just wanted to touch on the Brown contract: He's getting paid fairly and it's a tradable asset still.

22 million is what high level role players/6th men/elite utility guys get. It's on the higher end of that pay range but look around the league:
Anfernee Simons - 25
Cam Johnson - 23.5
KCP - 22
Bruce Brown - 22.5
DeAndre Hunter - 22.5
Dillon Brooks - 21
Josh Hart - 20
Malik Monk - 19.5
Keldon Johnson - 18.5
Norm Powell - 18.5
Grayson Allen - 17.5
Bogdan Bogdanovic - 17
Klay - 16.5
Dort - 16.5

Bruce Brown is on that level of player and his expiring contract is gonna be a valuable asset to a team that is trying to win right now. It was a smart move to keep him.

Everything else you said was correct.

Bruce Brown is much worse offensively than many on this list, many on the list were extended to stay on a competetitve team, Brown wasn't needed, cap flexibility was more important.


So you think that not trading Van Vleet or Lowry and letting them walk for nothing was a mistake, but you think just letting Brown walk for nothing wouldn't be a mistake? Do you not see the hypocracy? He's a tradable asset!

Brown is a solid playmaker, a hustle guy, and does the little things on both ends of the court. He's also one of the best defensive players on this list. Right or not, the Raptors are trying to win games to start the season and Brown will help the team. If that doesn't pan out, then there will be plenty of teams that can make a move to get him.

Suns, Cavs, Heat, Sixers, Nuggets, Mavericks, Clippers, Thunder, Warriors all have salary matching pieces to acquire him and he'd be good fits with them. There are plenty of more teams too. He's the type of player that teams want on their team.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#57 » by Meeksology » Fri Sep 20, 2024 4:39 pm

baldur wrote:toronto fans act like raptors were a dynasty or a powerhouse before ujiri, and then ujiri took over and turned raptors into a directionless, mediocre team. lol.

Wait, what?? Which Raptor fans thought this?? I know absolutely no one that thought we were a dynasty before Masai, or even after. Are you confusing what was said with the hypothetical "IF we kept Kawhi?"
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#58 » by ItsDanger » Fri Sep 20, 2024 4:43 pm

The current state of the team is a direct result of being reactive and putting players interests before the team. It's no surprise the Raps are firmly in the bottom tier of the league currently. This is a results based business and those results have been terrible lately.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#59 » by DaFan334 » Fri Sep 20, 2024 4:59 pm

If the Nuggets don't goto at least the WCF this year, I would expect them to fire Calvin Booth and I could easily see Masai coming back to Denver with open arms.
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Re: Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon 

Post#60 » by MiltownMadness » Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:03 pm

Bottom 5 GM since the chip without a doubt, damage is already done though. Hopefully new guy can get them out the hole Masai dug

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