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Breaking: KAT to the Knicks

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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#641 » by The KnicksFix » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:03 am

younggunsmn wrote:Wolves fan have watched KAT for 9 years.

1. The offensive skill is real. Best shooting big man of all time is not an exaggeration.
But no longer much of a post threat and completely incapable of bully ball.
Teams were very effective guarding him with smaller guys even before Gobert arrived, but will absolutely torch players his size with average or worse athleticism. Expect teams to go small against you. A lot.
Game is mostly pick and pop and attacking closeouts off the dribble now.
Pretty mediocre passing out of the double team which is what has really held him back from taking that step into superstardom.

2. Needs to be in an aggressive defensive scheme. One of the worst drop coverage bigs of all time.
Hunted mercilessly in pick and roll for most of his career. Was very successfully playing up high in the trap/high wall scheme two years ago with long athletic guys in McDaniels and Vanderbilt protecting as the low man.
Was very successful this year playing help defender to Gobert, who was taking massive responsibility in a drop scheme with 3 aggressive elite perimeter defenders who almost never got beat one on one.
Thibs is a great coach and you have some great defenders, but if you let teams put KAT on an island you are going to have a really bad time, and good teams will focus their entire game plan around scheming to attack him.

3. Foul trouble has been a constant throughout his career and KAT is going to do stuff sometimes that make you want to throw a brick through your TV.
Offensive foul after offensive foul. Constant complaining to the refs.
Trying to make the home run play instead of the easy pass.
Always falling to the floor on his drives.

4. Offensive efficiency goes in the toilet when the lights get bright and teams ratchet up their defensive intensity.
Had an absolutely horrible playoff series against Memphis 2 years ago and again against Dallas this summer.

This trade would never have happened if he were on a regular max contract instead of a supermax.
We were not going to be able to put enough players around Ant to win in the long term with KAT's deal on the books.

I hate this trade from a value perspective. I absolutely loathe Julius Randle and am tempted to just stretch his contract for fear of what a bad fit he is going to be between Ant and Gobert, if I weren't certain he was going to exercise his player option and leave next summer.

That pick from Detroit is likely just a high 2nd round pick.

I love Divencenzo though, and he should fit well with what we are trying to do as a plus defender on the wing and a guy with a quick trigger who can shoot 40% plus on volume.
If we had him last year instead of NAW, maybe that Dallas series turns out differently.
Plus he's on a bargain contract for 3 more years which is also huge.

This trade might also allow us to re-sign Naz Reid next summer, which was not going to happen without shedding some serious salary.
If we are going to get Ant to a chip, it's only going to happen by growth from within from guys like Naz, Jaden McDaniels, and Rob Dillingham. Maybe add Donte to that as well.

As a Minny fan, this trade stings in the moment, but it may actually allow us to extend our window out another 3 or 4 years as a market that can't pay 100 mil+ in luxury tax every year (we were at about 300 mil in tax and salary before this trade for this year, which IMHO was only even possible because of the ownership fight).


All of this just to pretty much just hate on the guy that was your franchise cornerstone for almost a decade. Damn
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#642 » by Galvationknicks » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:07 am

WentzerWuver wrote:
Galvationknicks wrote:Is Donovan Mitchell a Knick yet?

Dude really misplayed his hand
He was willing to take a home town discount from what was rumored so how did he played his hand wrong? It was Danny Boi fault for trying to fleece every team but not da Spida.


He didn't force his hand. I'm only gonna resign with the Knicks through back channels. That's basically how OG did it
JB is Him :nod:
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#643 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:09 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
NiceLikeChrist wrote:iHart boneheaded move to OKC cooked this entire team. now we get to play 5 out, everyone standing around at the 3 while brunson pounds air out the ball.

Towns can't create like Julius. This season was gonna be the most weapons around him ever, he was gonna avg 8+ assists so easily.

Yeah, we are gonna miss Randle’s playmaking significantly.


Ya know KAT is one of the best passing bigs in the league?
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#644 » by JayTWill » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:09 am

spree2kawhi wrote:
Fury wrote:Why couldn’t we trade Mitch instead of Donte

This.


I'm assuming Minnesota wanted DDV and not the currently injured Mitch. Gobert/Randle/Reid should be enough to cover the 4/5 right? I know Reid got most of his minutes next to KAT and Gobert but Randle only plays the 4 so I assume Reid would get more minutes at the 5 this year. I don't know.

I still don't know how they plan to match salaries without sending out Mitch in which case sending out Randle, Mitch, Deuce + KBD would have been enough if they wanted to keep DDV and Minnesota was ok with Deuce instead.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#645 » by spree2kawhi » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:12 am

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
NiceLikeChrist wrote:iHart boneheaded move to OKC cooked this entire team. now we get to play 5 out, everyone standing around at the 3 while brunson pounds air out the ball.

Towns can't create like Julius. This season was gonna be the most weapons around him ever, he was gonna avg 8+ assists so easily.

Yeah, we are gonna miss Randle’s playmaking significantly.


Ya know KAT is one of the best passing bigs in the league?


No, most posters here don’t. They’re underrating him and run with the narrative of him being a soft and slow bum.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#646 » by seren » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:14 am

What an awful trade. I don’t see a single thing KAT does better than Randle and we lost valuable depth and gave away a first round pick in the process. Very difficult to come back from a blunder like this financially. We went from a deep team with a lot of grit to an overpaid squad with lots of injury history. I don’t want to hyperbole too much but this team is one injury away from McDyess years.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#647 » by ITGM » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:14 am

RIP NOVA KNICKS. HELLO CAA KNICKS!
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#648 » by NoStatsGuy » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:20 am

younggunsmn wrote:Wolves fan have watched KAT for 9 years.

1. The offensive skill is real. Best shooting big man of all time is not an exaggeration.
But no longer much of a post threat and completely incapable of bully ball.
Teams were very effective guarding him with smaller guys even before Gobert arrived, but will absolutely torch players his size with average or worse athleticism. Expect teams to go small against you. A lot.
Game is mostly pick and pop and attacking closeouts off the dribble now.
Pretty mediocre passing out of the double team which is what has really held him back from taking that step into superstardom.

2. Needs to be in an aggressive defensive scheme. One of the worst drop coverage bigs of all time.
Hunted mercilessly in pick and roll for most of his career. Was very successfully playing up high in the trap/high wall scheme two years ago with long athletic guys in McDaniels and Vanderbilt protecting as the low man.
Was very successful this year playing help defender to Gobert, who was taking massive responsibility in a drop scheme with 3 aggressive elite perimeter defenders who almost never got beat one on one.
Thibs is a great coach and you have some great defenders, but if you let teams put KAT on an island you are going to have a really bad time, and good teams will focus their entire game plan around scheming to attack him.

3. Foul trouble has been a constant throughout his career and KAT is going to do stuff sometimes that make you want to throw a brick through your TV.
Offensive foul after offensive foul. Constant complaining to the refs.
Trying to make the home run play instead of the easy pass.
Always falling to the floor on his drives.

4. Offensive efficiency goes in the toilet when the lights get bright and teams ratchet up their defensive intensity.
Had an absolutely horrible playoff series against Memphis 2 years ago and again against Dallas this summer.

This trade would never have happened if he were on a regular max contract instead of a supermax.
We were not going to be able to put enough players around Ant to win in the long term with KAT's deal on the books.

I hate this trade from a value perspective. I absolutely loathe Julius Randle and am tempted to just stretch his contract for fear of what a bad fit he is going to be between Ant and Gobert, if I weren't certain he was going to exercise his player option and leave next summer.

That pick from Detroit is likely just a high 2nd round pick.

I love Divencenzo though, and he should fit well with what we are trying to do as a plus defender on the wing and a guy with a quick trigger who can shoot 40% plus on volume.
If we had him last year instead of NAW, maybe that Dallas series turns out differently.
Plus he's on a bargain contract for 3 more years which is also huge.

This trade might also allow us to re-sign Naz Reid next summer, which was not going to happen without shedding some serious salary.
If we are going to get Ant to a chip, it's only going to happen by growth from within from guys like Naz, Jaden McDaniels, and Rob Dillingham. Maybe add Donte to that as well.

As a Minny fan, this trade stings in the moment, but it may actually allow us to extend our window out another 3 or 4 years as a market that can't pay 100 mil+ in luxury tax every year (we were at about 300 mil in tax and salary before this trade for this year, which IMHO was only even possible because of the ownership fight).


thanks for the input, i think you guys won that trade. dont know about the fit since i dont know much about the wolves. but julius is a beast and i think ant is going to like him.
im bout dat action boss
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#649 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:26 am

seren wrote:What an awful trade. I don’t see a single thing KAT does better than Randle and we lost valuable depth and gave away a first round pick in the process. Very difficult to come back from a blunder like this financially. We went from a deep team with a lot of grit to an overpaid squad with lots of injury history. I don’t want to hyperbole too much but this team is one injury away from McDyess years.


Better scorer, better rebounder, better shooter, better defender. He’s better at everything except passing.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#650 » by younggunsmn » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:27 am

JayTWill wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:
Fury wrote:Why couldn’t we trade Mitch instead of Donte

This.


I'm assuming Minnesota wanted DDV and not the currently injured Mitch. Gobert/Randle/Reid should be enough to cover the 4/5 right? I know Reid got most of his minutes next to KAT and Gobert but Randle only plays the 4 so I assume Reid would get more minutes at the 5 this year. I don't know.

I still don't know how they plan to match salaries without sending out Mitch in which case sending out Randle, Mitch, Deuce + KBD would have been enough if they wanted to keep DDV and Minnesota was ok with Deuce instead.


DDV is the key piece for us.
Our big rotation will be worse defensively, but Naz can go back to being a stretch 5 on the second unit where he is at his best absolutely torching teams.

Gobert/Randle fit is going to be the biggest question mark going forward for us.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#651 » by Garbagelo » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:29 am

This is pretty much as good as it gets

Sold high on both Randle and Donte, frp might sting but also might not convey

KAT performs in the playoffs unlike Randle the choker and we free up minutes for Deuce, Payne, and Kolek. Also let's not forget he pretty much puts up the same stats as Randle. He also fills the weak C position and allows OG to slide over to PF, Mikal to SF and Hart back in the starting line up. Think this slightly weakens wing depth off the bench of course.

Good trade that can probably unlock this team
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#652 » by spree2kawhi » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:34 am

Garbagelo wrote:This is pretty much as good as it gets

Sold high on both Randle and Donte, frp might sting but also might not convey

KAT performs in the playoffs unlike Randle the choker and we free up minutes for Deuce, Payne, and Kolek. Also let's not forget he pretty much puts up the same stats as Randle. He also fills the weak C position and allows OG to slide over to PF, Mikal to SF and Hart back in the starting line up. Think this slightly weakens wing depth off the bench of course.

Good trade that can probably unlock this team

Where were you with this take when we needed you earlier this year? :lol:
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#653 » by Garbagelo » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:46 am

The people hating on this trade probably don't remember how frustrating a player Randle is. KAT has his own set of issues but Randle's issues are way worst and affect the morale of the team oftentimes. He made Brunson's job more difficult quite often.

People don't remember the sub par record we had before we got OG, and that was primarily with Randle given a more important role.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#654 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:57 am

:D Sixers podcast

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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#655 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:13 am

Was Randle removed from a Knicks social media platform? I thought I read that here recently.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#656 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:13 am

Wow. I'm honestly shocked, but not really since I was saying that Minnesota probably didn't want to pay that tax bill.

So I'm assuming the starters will be KAT/OG/Mikal/Hart/Brunson?
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#657 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:14 am

MrDollarBills wrote:Wow. I'm honestly shocked, but not really since I was saying that Minnesota probably didn't want to pay that tax bill.

So I'm assuming the starters will be KAT/OG/Mikal/Hart/Brunson?


I’m watching some Minnesota podcasts and they say it was the money.
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#658 » by xb3at band1tx » Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:16 am

Garbagelo wrote:The people hating on this trade probably don't remember how frustrating a player Randle is. KAT has his own set of issues but Randle's issues are way worst and affect the morale of the team oftentimes. He made Brunson's job more difficult quite often.

People don't remember the sub par record we had before we got OG, and that was primarily with Randle given a more important role.

Kat has his moments of, "softness", but Randle has been one of the worst bench sulkers I ever seen.

I personally don't think Randle could mentally ever get there in the post-season (atleast in NY where it was clear he was not the captain anymore)
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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#659 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:19 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Wow. I'm honestly shocked, but not really since I was saying that Minnesota probably didn't want to pay that tax bill.

So I'm assuming the starters will be KAT/OG/Mikal/Hart/Brunson?


I’m watching some Minnesota podcasts and they say it was the money.


Yeah it was obvious for awhile but I am still shocked that it happened so suddenly.

I need to wrap my head around what's left of the rosters depth. At least Center is resolved and now the team has a legit spacer at the 5. I think Boston should be concerned.

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Re: Breaking: KAT to the Knicks 

Post#660 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:20 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Wow. I'm honestly shocked, but not really since I was saying that Minnesota probably didn't want to pay that tax bill.

So I'm assuming the starters will be KAT/OG/Mikal/Hart/Brunson?


I’m watching some Minnesota podcasts and they say it was the money.


Yeah it was obvious for awhile but I am still shocked that it happened so suddenly.

I need to wrap my head around what's left of the rosters depth. At least Center is resolved and now the team has a legit spacer at the 5. I think Boston should be concerned.

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