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2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#161 » by Puff » Tue Oct 1, 2024 6:11 pm

bwgood77 wrote:Mitch Robinson has always been massively overrated here.


I buy that but he would have been nice at 31 in the 2018 draft if we would have picked Doncic rather than Ayton.

Of course, we also could have gone hard after Capella that year if we would not have drafted Ayton.

That decision continues to haunt our franchise.

The team to really worry about this year is the Mavs of course there are many others.

We are going to struggle to get 49 wins this year. I hope I am wrong but the West is loaded.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#162 » by Qwigglez » Tue Oct 1, 2024 7:16 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Spoiler:
Mr Puddles wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Yeah highly doubt he takes the final roster spot but it's good to have Vibes Kaminsky back in Phoenix.


Frank is what he is. You don't want him to play heavy minutes but he was always a good character guy during his last stint in Phoenix. Don't mind having him around. Plus he's just so damn sexy.


The PG position has depth, playmaking, three point shooting (Tyus and Monte)
The SG position has depth, playmaking, three point shooting (Booker, Beal, and Grayson)
The SF position has depth, playmaking, three point shooting (Booker, Beal, and Grayson)
The PF position has depth and three point shooting (Durant, O'Neale, and Bol)
The C position has depth but lacks three point shooting ... Bud needs a five who can reliably shoot the three.

Nurk ... maybe on threes
Plumlee ... no three point shot
Bol ... maybe on threes but too skinny to be a backup 5
Ighodaro ... unknown on threes and too small to be a backup 5

Frank is a safety net for the stretch 5. Currently this is the biggest need on the team.

I would guess Frank has the upper hand on the 15th roster spot. Perfect glue guy and the Suns could offer a non-guaranteed contract which would become fully guaranteed on Jan 7.


I agree and believe Frank will likely be the 15th roster spot unless some kind of injury occurs before the season starts to a guard.
Jones / Morris
Beal / Lee / Okogie
Booker / Grayson / Dunn
KD / Royce / Bol
Nurkic / Plumlee / Kaminsky / Oso

Gillespie and Washington Jr on 2-way contract

Suns have a lot of versatility with lineups IMO, where Beal, Booker and even Okogie can bring the ball up the court. Though that should only happen rarely, or during transition.
The addition of Plumlee makes me feel so much better about the Suns center rotation, especially come playoff time since Eubanks was targeted so often it felt like. Nurkic losing a ton of weight will likely help too. Since getting KD, this is probably the most excited I have been for a Suns team.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#163 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 1, 2024 10:55 pm

Mr Puddles wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Still can't believe what TWolves did.

Trade 2nd best player to save tax.

Imagine if we traded Devin Booker for Dejonte Murray for cap relief.


Imagine trading Joe Johnson because we're 2 mil a year apart in salary negotiations.

Imagine getting Robert Horried out of the playoffs and then trading Kurt Thomas plus two first round picks for a trade exception.

Imagine selling first rounders.

Let the TWolves and Nuggets ownership be a reminder to people what many ownerships in the NBA looks like. Say what you want about Matt, atleast he doesn't penny pinch.

I like what Matt said at media day about spending money to win and it's (luxury tax) not anyone else's job or decision to deal with it but him. Echoing him, it was great to hear Bartelstein describe what it's like working for Matt and how Matt asks the right questions and as an organisation they aren't reckless with money but if it's in the name of winning, Matt will go with it.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#164 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 1, 2024 10:58 pm



Grayson walking in with them boulder shoulders.....dude is huge! I saw that offseason video of him shooting and thought it was maybe just some extra offseason weight and lightning but he's thicc
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#165 » by Mulhollanddrive » Wed Oct 2, 2024 1:36 am

Ishbia Bros are worth 17B so 170m in luxury tax is 1% of their net worth.

It's like having 100k in savings and buying a season ticket for 1k.

ARod (albeit minority owner) is worth 350m he'd be broke in 2 years, bye Towns.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#166 » by bigfoot » Wed Oct 2, 2024 4:31 am

lilfishi22 wrote:

Grayson walking in with them boulder shoulders.....dude is huge! I saw that offseason video of him shooting and thought it was maybe just some extra offseason weight and lightning but he's thicc


Watched Bickley and Marrota interview of Grayson. Last season Allen said he played at 220-225. Sounds like he added 5-10 pounds of muscle this summer which is pretty impressive. Grayson was one the super bright spots for me last season. The guy is tough as nails and just plays 100%. Reminds a lot of Thunder Dan and I'm not surprised he won the Hustle Award last season.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#167 » by Saberestar » Wed Oct 2, 2024 5:14 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#168 » by Iceman36 » Wed Oct 2, 2024 2:33 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Finally Basketball is back. :clap:
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#169 » by bwgood77 » Wed Oct 2, 2024 3:22 pm

Win projections for WC from ESPN...I was going to pick Memphis to finish top 3 or and thought I might be one of the few to do so, but it looks like the projections already have them high.

Spoiler:
Western Conference

1. Oklahoma City Thunder
Average wins: 53.7

A year after surpassing their projection by an incredible 18 wins, Oklahoma City now boasts the highest average wins for any team in the league. With a deep, young roster augmented by the offseason additions of Alex Caruso and Isaiah Hartenstein, the Thunder are the only team to project in the top five in both offensive and defensive rating.

2. Memphis Grizzlies
Average wins: 51.1

Despite Ja Morant's 25-game suspension, the Grizzlies were one of the biggest projection outliers last season, beginning with the West's best average wins total. (Steven Adams' season-ending knee injury, announced after I published projections, pushed them to second behind Minnesota.)

Memphis instead dealt with a historic amount of injuries en route to the lottery. This time around, after drafting college standout Zach Edey to fill the hole at center left by the Adams trade, it is near the top of the West again. The core that led Memphis to 50-plus wins the two previous seasons is still intact, and last year helped the Grizzlies develop young depth.

3. Dallas Mavericks
Average wins: 49.7

The Mavericks won at a 55-game pace after the All-Star break and subsequently reached the NBA Finals, so expectations might be higher in Dallas. It's worth noting that the Mavericks were unusually healthy down the stretch, with Kyrie Irving playing every game from Feb. 5 through Dallas locking up the fifth seed. Something similar to last year's 50-win finish is reasonable, and the Mavericks' 49.5-win total at ESPN BET is nearly identical to this mark.

4. Sacramento Kings
Average wins: 49.4

After averaging 47 wins over the past two seasons, the Kings have their most talented roster yet after moving Harrison Barnes for DeRozan in a sign-and-trade. The question is whether these players will fit as well on the court given DeRozan, like De'Aaron Fox and sixth man Malik Monk, is best with the ball in his hands. I remain skeptical the Kings will finish quite this high in the West.

5. Denver Nuggets
Average wins: 47.4

Based on plus-minus data, Caldwell-Pope deserved a considerable amount of the credit for a Denver defense that ranked eighth in defensive rating last season after finishing 15th in 2022-23. So although the Nuggets are still projected as the NBA's third-best offense, their defense rating is worse than average.

Additionally, Denver could be hard-pressed to overachieve again compared to its point differential. The Nuggets won 3.4 more games than expected based on their differential in 2022-23 and 2.7 more last season -- clutch domination historically tends to be hard to maintain.

6. Phoenix Suns
Average wins: 45.4

The veteran Suns are another team that could take a step back due to age. With a weighted age of 29.9 at season's end, Phoenix was the league's third-oldest team last season. Injuries tend to come with age, and while Bradley Beal played just 53 games, Kevin Durant (75) played 20 games more than any other season since suffering an Achilles rupture in 2019.

7. Golden State Warriors
Average wins: 44.8

Relative positioning will be more important than absolute wins for the Warriors. Golden State's 46 wins last season were just three shy of the Suns, who avoided the play-in entirely. The Warriors, instead, were one-and-done in the play-in after having to open on the road at Sacramento. Golden State was still stronger in terms of point differential, finishing seventh in the West -- ahead of the Finals-bound Mavericks.

8. Minnesota Timberwolves
Average wins: 42.7

Although the Friday's trade slightly bumped up their projection, the Timberwolves rating barely better than .500 on average a year after finishing second in the West with 56 wins -- albeit also two years after going 42-40 in Rudy Gobert's first season with the team -- remains the most surprising result.

Adding both DiVincenzo and Randle helps Minnesota's questionable depth, but at the cost of top-end talent. Towns projects better than either of the two players the Timberwolves got in return.

9. New Orleans Pelicans
Average wins: 41.6

There's a lot to like about the Pelicans' roster, which is deep on perimeter players after their offseason trade for Dejounte Murray. The issue is at center, and while I've projected plenty of minutes there for Zion Williamson, the Pelicans' other options -- journeyman Daniel Theis, undersized Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, two-way contributor Trey Jemison and rookies Karlo Matkovic and Yves Missi -- are lacking. As a result, New Orleans is predicted for a downturn from last season's 49 wins, albeit with the caveat that they too could easily upgrade midseason.

10. Los Angeles Lakers
Average wins: 40.7

This projection reflects the same factors that made the Lakers one of my most likely teams to decline in terms of wins from last season's 47. The Lakers finished 11th in the West in point differential (plus-0.6), which would typically translate into 42 or 43 wins. Add in the difficulty of veterans Anthony Davis and LeBron James matching last season's games played and the Lakers could be fighting just to make the play-in.

11. Houston Rockets
Average wins: 40.4

Like the Magic, Houston's projection is held back by multiyear stats for the team's young prospects, who developed quickly during the 2023-24 season as the Rockets reached .500. Where Houston finishes in the crowded West standings this season shouldn't have much impact on the franchise's bright outlook for the future.

12. LA Clippers
Average wins: 36.3

Clippers coach Ty Lue told ESPN's Ohm Youngmisuk last month he "can't wait to prove everybody wrong." Well, everybody includes these projections, which have the Clippers hard-pressed to stay in the play-in race after losing George.

As noted in my piece on teams most likely to decline, the Clippers' age and health were concerns even before replacing George with role players Nicolas Batum and Derrick Jones Jr. Players will be forced to create more of their own offense, as the Clippers' expected rotation had a projected usage rate 14% lower than league average. No other team was more than 6% below average.

13. San Antonio Spurs
Average wins: 33.5

Despite a strong individual projection for Victor Wembanyama, the Spurs' forecast falls short of their 36.5 over/under total. San Antonio's final record will depend in large part on how much coach Gregg Popovich prioritizes developing No. 4 pick Stephon Castle, and recent first-rounders Malaki Braham, Jeremy Sochan and Blake Wesley, as opposed to playing veterans who can help more now but are less likely to be part of the Spurs' promising future.

14. Portland Trail Blazers
Average wins: 32.8

After losing 61 games last season, the Blazers added veteran help to their roster in Avdija but return 15 incumbent players overall. Lottery pick Donovan Clingan is the only other newcomer on a full NBA contract. Better health could help Portland be more competitive after no player played more than 72 games for the team last season. The Blazers might not mind accumulating lottery odds in a strong draft, however.

15. Utah Jazz
Average wins: 29.2

Having pivoted to young talent after the trade deadline each of the past two seasons, the Jazz have fewer veterans left on the roster to help keep them competitive over the first half of the season. Even with an extension for Lauri Markkanen, Utah has the West's lowest projection because of a youthful core of guards featuring recent first-round picks Isaiah Collier, Keyonte George and Cody Williams.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#170 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Oct 2, 2024 11:02 pm

bigfoot wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:

Grayson walking in with them boulder shoulders.....dude is huge! I saw that offseason video of him shooting and thought it was maybe just some extra offseason weight and lightning but he's thicc


Watched Bickley and Marrota interview of Grayson. Last season Allen said he played at 220-225. Sounds like he added 5-10 pounds of muscle this summer which is pretty impressive. Grayson was one the super bright spots for me last season. The guy is tough as nails and just plays 100%. Reminds a lot of Thunder Dan and I'm not surprised he won the Hustle Award last season.

Yeah when Grayson mentioned the NBA should update his listed weight from 195 to 230, Suns podcast took that as he put him 30-35lbs of muscle :roll: :roll: :roll: that would be difficult even juiced to the gills for 6mths. To add 5-10lbs in 6mths is reasonable for a an elite level athlete (compared to common folk)

I do wonder though, while the idea that getting stronger (and adding muscle) gives him some extra protection against the rigors of an NBA season, would there be a negative impact to the durability of his lower body and I suppose lateral quickness with the added weight?
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#171 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Oct 2, 2024 11:06 pm

bwgood77 wrote:Win projections for WC from ESPN...I was going to pick Memphis to finish top 3 or and thought I might be one of the few to do so, but it looks like the projections already have them high.

Spoiler:
Western Conference

1. Oklahoma City Thunder
Average wins: 53.7

A year after surpassing their projection by an incredible 18 wins, Oklahoma City now boasts the highest average wins for any team in the league. With a deep, young roster augmented by the offseason additions of Alex Caruso and Isaiah Hartenstein, the Thunder are the only team to project in the top five in both offensive and defensive rating.

2. Memphis Grizzlies
Average wins: 51.1

Despite Ja Morant's 25-game suspension, the Grizzlies were one of the biggest projection outliers last season, beginning with the West's best average wins total. (Steven Adams' season-ending knee injury, announced after I published projections, pushed them to second behind Minnesota.)

Memphis instead dealt with a historic amount of injuries en route to the lottery. This time around, after drafting college standout Zach Edey to fill the hole at center left by the Adams trade, it is near the top of the West again. The core that led Memphis to 50-plus wins the two previous seasons is still intact, and last year helped the Grizzlies develop young depth.

3. Dallas Mavericks
Average wins: 49.7

The Mavericks won at a 55-game pace after the All-Star break and subsequently reached the NBA Finals, so expectations might be higher in Dallas. It's worth noting that the Mavericks were unusually healthy down the stretch, with Kyrie Irving playing every game from Feb. 5 through Dallas locking up the fifth seed. Something similar to last year's 50-win finish is reasonable, and the Mavericks' 49.5-win total at ESPN BET is nearly identical to this mark.

4. Sacramento Kings
Average wins: 49.4

After averaging 47 wins over the past two seasons, the Kings have their most talented roster yet after moving Harrison Barnes for DeRozan in a sign-and-trade. The question is whether these players will fit as well on the court given DeRozan, like De'Aaron Fox and sixth man Malik Monk, is best with the ball in his hands. I remain skeptical the Kings will finish quite this high in the West.

5. Denver Nuggets
Average wins: 47.4

Based on plus-minus data, Caldwell-Pope deserved a considerable amount of the credit for a Denver defense that ranked eighth in defensive rating last season after finishing 15th in 2022-23. So although the Nuggets are still projected as the NBA's third-best offense, their defense rating is worse than average.

Additionally, Denver could be hard-pressed to overachieve again compared to its point differential. The Nuggets won 3.4 more games than expected based on their differential in 2022-23 and 2.7 more last season -- clutch domination historically tends to be hard to maintain.

6. Phoenix Suns
Average wins: 45.4

The veteran Suns are another team that could take a step back due to age. With a weighted age of 29.9 at season's end, Phoenix was the league's third-oldest team last season. Injuries tend to come with age, and while Bradley Beal played just 53 games, Kevin Durant (75) played 20 games more than any other season since suffering an Achilles rupture in 2019.

7. Golden State Warriors
Average wins: 44.8

Relative positioning will be more important than absolute wins for the Warriors. Golden State's 46 wins last season were just three shy of the Suns, who avoided the play-in entirely. The Warriors, instead, were one-and-done in the play-in after having to open on the road at Sacramento. Golden State was still stronger in terms of point differential, finishing seventh in the West -- ahead of the Finals-bound Mavericks.

8. Minnesota Timberwolves
Average wins: 42.7

Although the Friday's trade slightly bumped up their projection, the Timberwolves rating barely better than .500 on average a year after finishing second in the West with 56 wins -- albeit also two years after going 42-40 in Rudy Gobert's first season with the team -- remains the most surprising result.

Adding both DiVincenzo and Randle helps Minnesota's questionable depth, but at the cost of top-end talent. Towns projects better than either of the two players the Timberwolves got in return.

9. New Orleans Pelicans
Average wins: 41.6

There's a lot to like about the Pelicans' roster, which is deep on perimeter players after their offseason trade for Dejounte Murray. The issue is at center, and while I've projected plenty of minutes there for Zion Williamson, the Pelicans' other options -- journeyman Daniel Theis, undersized Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, two-way contributor Trey Jemison and rookies Karlo Matkovic and Yves Missi -- are lacking. As a result, New Orleans is predicted for a downturn from last season's 49 wins, albeit with the caveat that they too could easily upgrade midseason.

10. Los Angeles Lakers
Average wins: 40.7

This projection reflects the same factors that made the Lakers one of my most likely teams to decline in terms of wins from last season's 47. The Lakers finished 11th in the West in point differential (plus-0.6), which would typically translate into 42 or 43 wins. Add in the difficulty of veterans Anthony Davis and LeBron James matching last season's games played and the Lakers could be fighting just to make the play-in.

11. Houston Rockets
Average wins: 40.4

Like the Magic, Houston's projection is held back by multiyear stats for the team's young prospects, who developed quickly during the 2023-24 season as the Rockets reached .500. Where Houston finishes in the crowded West standings this season shouldn't have much impact on the franchise's bright outlook for the future.

12. LA Clippers
Average wins: 36.3

Clippers coach Ty Lue told ESPN's Ohm Youngmisuk last month he "can't wait to prove everybody wrong." Well, everybody includes these projections, which have the Clippers hard-pressed to stay in the play-in race after losing George.

As noted in my piece on teams most likely to decline, the Clippers' age and health were concerns even before replacing George with role players Nicolas Batum and Derrick Jones Jr. Players will be forced to create more of their own offense, as the Clippers' expected rotation had a projected usage rate 14% lower than league average. No other team was more than 6% below average.

13. San Antonio Spurs
Average wins: 33.5

Despite a strong individual projection for Victor Wembanyama, the Spurs' forecast falls short of their 36.5 over/under total. San Antonio's final record will depend in large part on how much coach Gregg Popovich prioritizes developing No. 4 pick Stephon Castle, and recent first-rounders Malaki Braham, Jeremy Sochan and Blake Wesley, as opposed to playing veterans who can help more now but are less likely to be part of the Spurs' promising future.

14. Portland Trail Blazers
Average wins: 32.8

After losing 61 games last season, the Blazers added veteran help to their roster in Avdija but return 15 incumbent players overall. Lottery pick Donovan Clingan is the only other newcomer on a full NBA contract. Better health could help Portland be more competitive after no player played more than 72 games for the team last season. The Blazers might not mind accumulating lottery odds in a strong draft, however.

15. Utah Jazz
Average wins: 29.2

Having pivoted to young talent after the trade deadline each of the past two seasons, the Jazz have fewer veterans left on the roster to help keep them competitive over the first half of the season. Even with an extension for Lauri Markkanen, Utah has the West's lowest projection because of a youthful core of guards featuring recent first-round picks Isaiah Collier, Keyonte George and Cody Williams.

Pretty competitive west
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#172 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Oct 4, 2024 9:48 pm

Preseason is upon us!
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#173 » by bigfoot » Fri Oct 4, 2024 10:15 pm

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#174 » by Fo-Real » Sat Oct 5, 2024 4:55 pm

Preseason tomorrow.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#175 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Oct 6, 2024 12:13 am

Can our starting 5 be fit for opening week?

That's all I'm hoping for at the moment, miracles can happen
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#176 » by RedIndian » Sun Oct 6, 2024 3:06 am

Nurkic out with a finger injury for at least a week. Looks like we'll see a lot of Oso in pre-season
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#177 » by sunsbg » Sun Oct 6, 2024 6:25 am

Most interested to see how Oso and Ryan play in the preseason. Oso is kinda Nurk light anyway and I think Dunn will surprise with his shooting. The one video of him practicing with KD and a camp video where he looks like a better shooter than Okogie(not saying much) make me optimistic he has put work in the summer. Let's see if these two show signs of being ready to contribute this season.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#178 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Oct 6, 2024 7:44 am

Beal hamstring

Sorry just doing preseason typing
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#179 » by sunskerr » Sun Oct 6, 2024 11:12 am

sunsbg wrote:Most interested to see how Oso and Ryan play in the preseason. Oso is kinda Nurk light anyway and I think Dunn will surprise with his shooting. The one video of him practicing with KD and a camp video where he looks like a better shooter than Okogie(not saying much) make me optimistic he has put work in the summer. Let's see if these two show signs of being ready to contribute this season.


Idk man I have such low expectations for Dunn ever since I saw that twitter of him airballing floaters at shoot around level speed. Like if he ends up shooting even as well as Bronny I'd give Dunn a lifetime achievement award.

I think its just best to set expectations low and wait it out.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#180 » by sunsbg » Sun Oct 6, 2024 11:52 am

sunskerr wrote:
sunsbg wrote:Most interested to see how Oso and Ryan play in the preseason. Oso is kinda Nurk light anyway and I think Dunn will surprise with his shooting. The one video of him practicing with KD and a camp video where he looks like a better shooter than Okogie(not saying much) make me optimistic he has put work in the summer. Let's see if these two show signs of being ready to contribute this season.


Idk man I have such low expectations for Dunn ever since I saw that twitter of him airballing floaters at shoot around level speed. Like if he ends up shooting even as well as Bronny I'd give Dunn a lifetime achievement award.

I think its just best to set expectations low and wait it out.


You have set the expectations really low lol, probably deservedly. Haven't watched anything of Bronny, just noticed in box-score he was 1-6 FG in his first preseason game. Let's see if Dunn is able to beat this accomplishment.

The camp video I mentioned. Dunn in his rookie season to me looks a better outside shooter than JO though again it doesn't say that much.

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