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2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm

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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#281 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:21 pm

KillMonger wrote:
eyriq wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Problem is, Black simply never, for Magic played PG or any other semantic of point guard / Playmaker / basketball maestro / insert any new title here. Period.

He holds ball at average for 1,5 sec per possession. Vast majority of wings, forwards, even Cs keep it longer, and all playmakers for sure keep it longer because it takes more than 1,5 sec to set play.


We all want to Magic at least TRY to play him as playmaker, HOWEVER, every time when he gets ball ( like last night) he just elects to not play as playmaker, rather gives ball away and goes off ball. Maybe it's just him not being comfortable playing on ball against nba opponents? Or him not being able to actually beat people off the dribble? Or his dribbling , like it's often case with tall college point guards, doesn't work in nba and they get exposed ?

I don't know.

Thing is, Anthony Black is wing. He played nothing but wing in rookie year. In preseason he still is - wing.

I'm way more worried about Magic and fact that we are entering season where almost no guard can handle the ball without looking like it's accident waiting to happen.
The thing is, Mosley defined his role to be a spot-up shooter on offense, point of attack defender on defense. Playmaking duties ran through Paolo and Franz. You know this, I know this, everyone knows this, but you make it out to be an indication that AB can't make plays. It literally wasn't his job to do so.

i tend to agree with this train of thought....Let's say we got a point guard, the thing is though the way mosely has us playing doesn't work well with a ball dominant point guard....we can already see the effect it's having on franz


Franz and Banchero simply aren't as good at playmaking as you think. Their "playmaking" just makes them look better than they are as they round up their APG total, but they do at expense of offense. Offense that, btw sucks.
Magic runned offense that was as bad as Brooklyn Nets offense ( you know, Cam Thomas yolo shooting ).
Magic were THE WORST offense to get to playoffs. If defense was as bad as offense was, we would probably win around 28 games.


You know why we lost Cavs series? Because in second half of game 7 Banchero, Franz, Fultz, Suggs, Harris and Cole COMBINED for 6 assists on 11-36 / 30% FG because that's what happeneds when you don't have playmakers capable of stabilization of a team.

Game 5? Same story. Second half -6 assist total on 8 turnovers.
Game 6 ( one we won) , second half 8 assists -7 turnovers.


Things got so bad that we actually needed Fultz to play. And that boy is out of a league now because nobody wants that trash around. But for us he was " must play".

This simply isn't sustainable way to win games. Our offense last year was tanking level bad.

There simply isn't no step up for this team without PG. Doubling down on SGs (who can't dribble, aren't combo guards and are alergic to pick&roll) tells you a lot where Weltman stuck when it comes to basetball construction. 2004 or so.
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. -John Lennon
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#282 » by ibraheim718 » Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:59 pm

At his position Banchero is an A+++ play maker.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#283 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:19 pm

ibraheim718 wrote:At his position Banchero is an A+++ play maker.


Most teams don't ask their PFs to make plays for whole team on regular bases. There are positions way better suited for it ( guards), or in unorthodox ways ( Jokic, Lebron) if they are generational talents.
Yet Lebron won 3 out out of 4 rings with HOF- guards playing next to him. Jokic has in playoffs elite guard to run play with him.

Even Bucks only broke ceiling of true contender and won title when they moved from "point Giannis" and added actual PG over Bledsoe ( Jrue ).

Celtics are yet another team who broke their ceiling once they removed anti-point guards & forced playmaking from other positions to way more traditional guard- creation in White + Jrue.


Thing is, Banchero would be first player to benefit from actual point guard. He could run pick&rolls as screener, set screens, get ball off catch, still make right plays, but also score with probably more efficiency and Magic would still have more fluid offense.

You can't have too many elite decision makers on team.

Franz won World Cup playing with Schroder, it's not like we don't know it works. It does.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#284 » by ibraheim718 » Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:32 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
ibraheim718 wrote:At his position Banchero is an A+++ play maker.


Most teams don't ask their PFs to make plays for whole team on regular bases. There are positions way better suited for it ( guards), or in unorthodox ways ( Jokic, Lebron) if they are generational talents.
Yet Lebron won 3 out out of 4 rings with HOF- guards playing next to him. Jokic has in playoffs elite guard to run play with him.

Even Bucks only broke ceiling of true contender and won title when they moved from "point Giannis" and added actual PG over Bledsoe ( Jrue ).

Celtics are yet another team who broke their ceiling once they removed anti-point guards & forced playmaking from other positions to way more traditional guard- creation in White + Jrue.


Thing is, Banchero would be first player to benefit from actual point guard. He could run pick&rolls as screener, set screens, get ball off catch, still make right plays, but also score with probably more efficiency and Magic would still have more fluid offense.

You can't have too many elite decision makers on team.

Franz won World Cup playing with Schroder, it's not like we don't know it works. It does.


The point is because he's so good at creating his own shot and such an unselfish player who can pass and has nice vision and touch on his passes the team doesn't need to have a ball dominant point guard because why would you want to take the ball out of Banchero's hands? Just because? That's not a good enough reason.

Go read all of his scouting reports coming out of college. He's a playmaking PF who can make the right reads when defenses try to double him. So you would want the ball in his hands more and you can have the ball in his hands more.

Paolo has excellent handles and creativity with the ball and can get his shot at will or make slick passes out, after collapsing the defense. His ability to pass the ball could become one of his primary weapons at the next level and it’s easy to imagine him averaging 5 or 6 assists per game in the NBA (he averages 3.2 at Duke).


^^^there is a plethora of scouting reports saying the same things. I can post them all if you want.

Impressive vision and passing for a guy his size.

Really nice feel for the game.

Height helps him see over defense. Showed he can read the defense beyond his man.

3.2APG. 17.5% AST%.

Can run a PnR and create for himself or others out of it.

Nice vision for cutters.

Nice touch with bounce passes.

Loves creative passes to his guy in the dunker spot off drives going left or right.

No look slips and wraparounds.

Can throw it cross-court with his right hand.

Can paint the corners from top of the key.

Hits the corners off kick-outs on the drive.

Throws nice lobs on unorthodox timing.

Very nice high-low post passer.

Will probably be very difficult to play ⅔ zone against him. He shreds it.

Grab and go/hit-ahead passer in transition.

Showed he can find the open man when doubled.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#285 » by RookieStar » Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:14 pm

Message Boar wrote:
eyriq wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:People struggle to idenfity what we need to target?

a ***** POINT *** GUARD

For f*** sake there are plays where Magic can't even cross ball through half court let alone set something close to offensive set.
That 19 years old boy from San Antonio from draft would probably instally become best Magic PG since Jameer.


We degraged this team with worthless point guards ( and incapable shooters) so much that people now think NBA player is instant star if he can make 2 shots in a row from deep. And anybody who can make 1 good pass once a week is "great playmaker".
Anthony Black

Honestly from everything I've seen from Black so far he's closer to a wing than a point guard.


eyriq will hate me but I have this feeling that AB will have a more Jingles-like role/position in our team rather than a PG
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#286 » by Knightro » Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:40 pm

eyriq wrote:
Knightro wrote:I actually like Anthony Black, but eyriq's literal nonsense about what he already is and has already shown is quite frustrating

It's ok to like a player's potential without having to essentially make things up about what they already are.

In non-garbage time situations, Anthony Black was almost exclusively used on the wing as a catch-and-shoot guy.

The times he "played" point guard he would pass the ball immediately upon crossing halfcourt, trot to a corner and wait for a pass.

He had 91 assists in 1164 minutes played.
He literally was listed at PG all season, is tracked as dominantly getting minutes at PG by basketball reference, is listed as a point guard on the Magic's site, was drafted as a point guard, and played point guard in college.

Position <> Role.


Lmao role is literally what matters, man.

Not some listing on a website.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#287 » by Knightro » Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:58 pm

What you actually are asked to do and then actually do on the basketball court >>>> what they list your position as.

Forever and until the end of the time.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#288 » by basketballRob » Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:29 pm

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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#289 » by eyriq » Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:34 pm

Knightro wrote:
eyriq wrote:
Knightro wrote:I actually like Anthony Black, but eyriq's literal nonsense about what he already is and has already shown is quite frustrating

It's ok to like a player's potential without having to essentially make things up about what they already are.

In non-garbage time situations, Anthony Black was almost exclusively used on the wing as a catch-and-shoot guy.

The times he "played" point guard he would pass the ball immediately upon crossing halfcourt, trot to a corner and wait for a pass.

He had 91 assists in 1164 minutes played.
He literally was listed at PG all season, is tracked as dominantly getting minutes at PG by basketball reference, is listed as a point guard on the Magic's site, was drafted as a point guard, and played point guard in college.

Position <> Role.


Lmao role is literally what matters, man.

Not some listing on a website.


Then debate the right points. If you are frustrated by me calling him a point guard that is on you to reconcile the incongruence in how you discuss roles/positions.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#290 » by Knightro » Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:52 pm

eyriq wrote:
Knightro wrote:
eyriq wrote:He literally was listed at PG all season, is tracked as dominantly getting minutes at PG by basketball reference, is listed as a point guard on the Magic's site, was drafted as a point guard, and played point guard in college.

Position <> Role.


Lmao role is literally what matters, man.

Not some listing on a website.


Then debate the right points. If you are frustrated by me calling him a point guard that is on you to reconcile the incongruence in how you discuss roles/positions.


There’s nothing to debate.

Being listed as a point guard doesn’t not mean you’re playing point guard or fulfilling any duties of a point guard.

This is genuinely the silliest thing going on this forum right now and has been for a very long time.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#291 » by eyriq » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:02 pm

Knightro wrote:
eyriq wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Lmao role is literally what matters, man.

Not some listing on a website.


Then debate the right points. If you are frustrated by me calling him a point guard that is on you to reconcile the incongruence in how you discuss roles/positions.


There’s nothing to debate.

Being listed as a point guard doesn’t not mean you’re playing point guard or fulfilling any duties of a point guard.

This is genuinely the silliest thing going on this forum right now and has been for a very long time.
Actually your position is the silliest thing going on right now. He's a point guard, end of discussion.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#292 » by Ducklett » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:03 pm

Trade Harris and sign Dennis Schroder. Does this fix things?
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#293 » by SOUL » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:16 pm

Silly Wars 2024
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#294 » by Bensational » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:22 pm

The Red Hot Silly Peppers are putting on a show!

(in case it’s not clear, now I’m just being silly)
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#295 » by ibraheim718 » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:38 pm

Ducklett wrote:Trade Harris and sign Dennis Schroder. Does this fix things?


There really isn't anything to fix but Schroeder definitely doesn't.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#296 » by Knightro » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:42 pm

eyriq wrote:
Knightro wrote:
eyriq wrote:
Then debate the right points. If you are frustrated by me calling him a point guard that is on you to reconcile the incongruence in how you discuss roles/positions.


There’s nothing to debate.

Being listed as a point guard doesn’t not mean you’re playing point guard or fulfilling any duties of a point guard.

This is genuinely the silliest thing going on this forum right now and has been for a very long time.
Actually your position is the silliest thing going on right now. He's a point guard, end of discussion.


This sort of stuff makes me not even wanna post here anymore :lol:

Just pure nonsense.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#297 » by eyriq » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:43 pm

Knightro wrote:
eyriq wrote:
Knightro wrote:
There’s nothing to debate.

Being listed as a point guard doesn’t not mean you’re playing point guard or fulfilling any duties of a point guard.

This is genuinely the silliest thing going on this forum right now and has been for a very long time.
Actually your position is the silliest thing going on right now. He's a point guard, end of discussion.


This sort of stuff makes me not even wanna post here anymore

Just pure nonsense.
If you need help with the concept they break it out nicely in this game called "NBA 2K".
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#298 » by GameOver25 » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:56 pm

We're really not going to see how much potential AB really has until Cold Anthony gets traded.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#299 » by VFX » Fri Oct 11, 2024 12:35 am

GameOver25 wrote:We're really not going to see how much potential AB really has until Cold Anthony gets traded.


YUP

Same with Jett and Gary.
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Re: 2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm 

Post#300 » by KillMonger » Fri Oct 11, 2024 12:38 am

RookieStar wrote:
Message Boar wrote:
eyriq wrote:Anthony Black

Honestly from everything I've seen from Black so far he's closer to a wing than a point guard.


eyriq will hate me but I have this feeling that AB will have a more Jingles-like role/position in our team rather than a PG

don't care what role he's playing as long as he's playing....me personally i thought mose made a mistake not finding minutes for him the second half of the season....can't play around with that this season, he definitely should be playing
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