Magic Sign G Jalen Suggs to a 5 year, 150.5M Contract Extension

[VFX]

Another thing to consider is that Franz just got paid a max deal so his performance is going to set the standard for a max deal from Suggs’ perspective. So far this preseason Franz is 0-7 from 3, and 8-27 overall over 3 preseason games. Suggs looks every bit the max player that those performances do.

I think Franz needs to spend next summer in Orlando working on his game instead of playing international ball because everyone else looks better and more capable and Franz is off to his worst start since he was drafted. We need to expect A LOT better return from our first max contract.

Couldn’t agree more Ben!

I think it’s about expectations and what we should expect from our outright max guys relative to what Suggs actually provides this team nightly.

[pepe1991]

I spent lot of time last few years writing long posts, that i assume nobody bothered to read , but new CBA simply sets teams to fail when they go through draft rebuild.

You just end up overpaying for players that aren't max contract guys- max contracts, and in context of some team sucess teams continue to overpay their role players on premise of continuity and development. Development that probably isn't realistic to expect, so you overpay for player who's skillset is similar to 2-3 years older player on open market who makes sometimes 40% less.

Two examples:

1) Warriors and Kuminga. Kuminga showed MASSIVE improvments, but he flat out ISN'T MAX CONTRACT PLAYER. Yet he wants max contract and his camp is aiming and fishing for one. That contract would be pretty much kill off any hope of Warriors ever being competitive with Curry again, but also it's not like they have any alternatives.
Losing him for nothing? Very bad idea.
Trading him? What's the value? He is on rookie scale contract, they can't even get equal value in trades ,as they are over cap, trade market is pretty much dead from start.
Sign & trade? Very hard to arrange, who is paying Kuminga $40M ?
Similar player / way lower value contract vise- Deni Avdija ( $11M )




2) Immanuel Quickley. In nutshell nothing more than combo guard with solid defense. $32,5 a year? Get a f*** out of here.
DiiVincenzo makes $11M a year and is probably as good.


So here we are with Suggs. Suggs is important peace of our culture, guy plays full court defense in preseason. He is bolt of energy.
BUT he simply isn't $30 M a year player.
Magic resign him and they go where from there? Franz $40; Suggs $30, Banchero $45-50. Moneygone, kiss goodby free agency as source of improvments, you are left with trades and resigns. Ultimate ceiling - Memphis Grizzlies type roster. Amazing defensive team that simply does not have firepower on offense to contend against best among best.


I don't put lot of stock in preseason, but Suggs didn't set world on fire as "playmaker", shooting 4-18 for 3. He is way more comfortable being strict catch & shoot guy than guy who shoots off dribble or handles ball for longer periods.

[Rainwater]

Another thing to consider is that Franz just got paid a max deal so his performance is going to set the standard for a max deal from Suggs’ perspective. So far this preseason Franz is 0-7 from 3, and 8-27 overall over 3 preseason games. Suggs looks every bit the max player that those performances do.

I think Franz needs to spend next summer in Orlando working on his game instead of playing international ball because everyone else looks better and more capable and Franz is off to his worst start since he was drafted. We need to expect A LOT better return from our first max contract.

This is true, the Franz contract may have set a terrible standard. Honestly, Franz nor Suggs deserve max contracts.

[VFX]

I spent lot of time last few years writing long posts, that i assume nobody bothered to read , but new CBA simply sets teams to fail when they go through draft rebuild.

You just end up overpaying for players that aren't max contract guys- max contracts, and in context of some team sucess teams continue to overpay their role players on premise of continuity and development. Development that probably isn't realistic to expect, so you overpay for player who's skillset is similar to 2-3 years older player on open market who makes sometimes 40% less.

Two examples:

1) Warriors and Kuminga. Kuminga showed MASSIVE improvments, but he flat out ISN'T MAX CONTRACT PLAYER. Yet he wants max contract and his camp is aiming and fishing for one. That contract would be pretty much kill off any hope of Warriors ever being competitive with Curry again, but also it's not like they have any alternatives.
Losing him for nothing? Very bad idea.
Trading him? What's the value? He is on rookie scale contract, they can't even get equal value in trades ,as they are over cap, trade market is pretty much dead from start.
Sign & trade? Very hard to arrange, who is paying Kuminga $40M ?
Similar player / way lower value contract vise- Deni Avdija ( $11M )




2) Immanuel Quickley. In nutshell nothing more than combo guard with solid defense. $32,5 a year? Get a f*** out of here.
DiiVincenzo makes $11M a year and is probably as good.


So here we are with Suggs. Suggs is important peace of our culture, guy plays full court defense in preseason. He is bolt of energy.
BUT he simply isn't $30 M a year player.
Magic resign him and they go where from there? Franz $40; Suggs $30, Banchero $45-50. Moneygone, kiss goodby free agency as source of improvments, you are left with trades and resigns. Ultimate ceiling - Memphis Grizzlies type roster. Amazing defensive team that simply does not have firepower on offense to contend against best among best.


I don't put lot of stock in preseason, but Suggs didn't set world on fire as "playmaker", shooting 4-18 for 3. He is way more comfortable being strict catch & shoot guy than guy who shoots off dribble or handles ball for longer periods.

I don’t disagree with you about the new CBA. However, how are rebuilding teams like Orlando supposed to remain relevant while satisfying these players?

OKC was the best team in the West last season with largely a drafted roster sans SGA ( who is maxed anyway ). Their three highest paid players now are SGA, IHart, and Dort in that order. They have two years before J Williams becomes expensive. Now I’d argue Suggs is better than Dort in terms of making plays on either side of the ball.

Anyway…That’s why moving players on the fringes is how you maximize your overall talent ceiling (Giddey) to avoid paying them while you keep the prospect mill churning. OKC is basically the blueprint for small market success at this point from last season.

Back to the point…

Getting guys like Jett and AB invested earlier gives a bigger ceiling seasons before worrying about paying them. Waiting around with journeyman vets and re-signing fringe role players to fill in as starters helps nobody aside from preventing Mosely from getting head aches. It’s his job.. figure it out.

The market will dictate who deserves what and who becomes a “bad deal”. There is no realistic alternative for a team like Orlando. They are not players in free agency for big names and they aren’t really moving players on the fringes to avoid paying them otherwise. We would have seen it already. Suggs is too crucial to their identity IMO. He isn’t Kuminga.. a guy that started what? 40 games total for the Warriors last season and 10 the season prior?

[VFX]

Another thing to consider is that Franz just got paid a max deal so his performance is going to set the standard for a max deal from Suggs’ perspective. So far this preseason Franz is 0-7 from 3, and 8-27 overall over 3 preseason games. Suggs looks every bit the max player that those performances do.

I think Franz needs to spend next summer in Orlando working on his game instead of playing international ball because everyone else looks better and more capable and Franz is off to his worst start since he was drafted. We need to expect A LOT better return from our first max contract.

This is true, the Franz contract may have set a terrible standard. Honestly, Franz nor Suggs deserve max contracts.

Only one of these players currently has a max contract.

[Rainwater]

Another thing to consider is that Franz just got paid a max deal so his performance is going to set the standard for a max deal from Suggs’ perspective. So far this preseason Franz is 0-7 from 3, and 8-27 overall over 3 preseason games. Suggs looks every bit the max player that those performances do.

I think Franz needs to spend next summer in Orlando working on his game instead of playing international ball because everyone else looks better and more capable and Franz is off to his worst start since he was drafted. We need to expect A LOT better return from our first max contract.

This is true, the Franz contract may have set a terrible standard. Honestly, Franz nor Suggs deserve max contracts.

Only one of these players currently has a max contract.

True, I should correct myself. From an organizational perspective, the Franz contract may have set a terrible standard. Franz is not a max player, and Suggs shouldn't use that to determine his value.

[fendilim]

I spent lot of time last few years writing long posts, that i assume nobody bothered to read , but new CBA simply sets teams to fail when they go through draft rebuild.

You just end up overpaying for players that aren't max contract guys- max contracts, and in context of some team sucess teams continue to overpay their role players on premise of continuity and development. Development that probably isn't realistic to expect, so you overpay for player who's skillset is similar to 2-3 years older player on open market who makes sometimes 40% less.

Two examples:

1) Warriors and Kuminga. Kuminga showed MASSIVE improvments, but he flat out ISN'T MAX CONTRACT PLAYER. Yet he wants max contract and his camp is aiming and fishing for one. That contract would be pretty much kill off any hope of Warriors ever being competitive with Curry again, but also it's not like they have any alternatives.
Losing him for nothing? Very bad idea.
Trading him? What's the value? He is on rookie scale contract, they can't even get equal value in trades ,as they are over cap, trade market is pretty much dead from start.
Sign & trade? Very hard to arrange, who is paying Kuminga $40M ?
Similar player / way lower value contract vise- Deni Avdija ( $11M )




2) Immanuel Quickley. In nutshell nothing more than combo guard with solid defense. $32,5 a year? Get a f*** out of here.
DiiVincenzo makes $11M a year and is probably as good.


So here we are with Suggs. Suggs is important peace of our culture, guy plays full court defense in preseason. He is bolt of energy.
BUT he simply isn't $30 M a year player.
Magic resign him and they go where from there? Franz $40; Suggs $30, Banchero $45-50. Moneygone, kiss goodby free agency as source of improvments, you are left with trades and resigns. Ultimate ceiling - Memphis Grizzlies type roster. Amazing defensive team that simply does not have firepower on offense to contend against best among best.


I don't put lot of stock in preseason, but Suggs didn't set world on fire as "playmaker", shooting 4-18 for 3. He is way more comfortable being strict catch & shoot guy than guy who shoots off dribble or handles ball for longer periods.

3. franz Wagner

[Rainwater]

I spent lot of time last few years writing long posts, that i assume nobody bothered to read , but new CBA simply sets teams to fail when they go through draft rebuild.

You just end up overpaying for players that aren't max contract guys- max contracts, and in context of some team sucess teams continue to overpay their role players on premise of continuity and development. Development that probably isn't realistic to expect, so you overpay for player who's skillset is similar to 2-3 years older player on open market who makes sometimes 40% less.

Two examples:

1) Warriors and Kuminga. Kuminga showed MASSIVE improvments, but he flat out ISN'T MAX CONTRACT PLAYER. Yet he wants max contract and his camp is aiming and fishing for one. That contract would be pretty much kill off any hope of Warriors ever being competitive with Curry again, but also it's not like they have any alternatives.
Losing him for nothing? Very bad idea.
Trading him? What's the value? He is on rookie scale contract, they can't even get equal value in trades ,as they are over cap, trade market is pretty much dead from start.
Sign & trade? Very hard to arrange, who is paying Kuminga $40M ?
Similar player / way lower value contract vise- Deni Avdija ( $11M )




2) Immanuel Quickley. In nutshell nothing more than combo guard with solid defense. $32,5 a year? Get a f*** out of here.
DiiVincenzo makes $11M a year and is probably as good.


So here we are with Suggs. Suggs is important peace of our culture, guy plays full court defense in preseason. He is bolt of energy.
BUT he simply isn't $30 M a year player.
Magic resign him and they go where from there? Franz $40; Suggs $30, Banchero $45-50. Moneygone, kiss goodby free agency as source of improvments, you are left with trades and resigns. Ultimate ceiling - Memphis Grizzlies type roster. Amazing defensive team that simply does not have firepower on offense to contend against best among best.


I don't put lot of stock in preseason, but Suggs didn't set world on fire as "playmaker", shooting 4-18 for 3. He is way more comfortable being strict catch & shoot guy than guy who shoots off dribble or handles ball for longer periods.

I agree with a lot of this; however, the "max" issue only becomes a problem only if another team is willing to give out a max deal when the original team refuses to do so. I feel like guys like Kuminga, Jalen Green, Suggs and even Sengun, guys who are good but not great players, their price will be determined by the market if no solution is found to resign them. Just like the Magic and GSW, I doubt many teams will overpay for their services. Therefore, teams like the magic and Warriors will take the bet they won't be overpaid and allow these players go into restricted free agency where they will have the option to match.

I also disagree with you regarding Quickly, I think he will be a breakout player this year.

[Bensational]

This is true, the Franz contract may have set a terrible standard. Honestly, Franz nor Suggs deserve max contracts.

Only one of these players currently has a max contract.

True, I should correct myself. From an organizational perspective, the Franz contract may have set a terrible standard. Franz is not a max player, and Suggs shouldn't use that to determine his value.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Franz having the max contract, the guy is a stud who makes winning plays. He'll come good. I just want him looking sharp and ready to go now.

But from negotiation standpoint, if his numbers take a slight dip and Suggs can make a slight jump and close the gap in production between them, it's going to be hard for the FO to tell Suggs that they think Franz is worth $225M and Suggs is only worth $150M, for example. Who knows how that value is quantified? If you look at Per36, Suggs wasn't all that far off Franz' numbers. If he'd sustained his level of play, Suggs would've been good for 16.8ppg, 4.1rpg, 3.6apg, 1.9spg

And with Suggs being on the ball more this season, there's a chance he could end up leading Franz in rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, 3's and be only 3-4ppg less, and if that happens then Suggs is going to have a solid case for 'big 3' money.

Me? I'd max them all. Franz, Suggs, Paolo, AB, Jett. $250M on the 5 of them.

[eyriq]

Only one of these players currently has a max contract.

True, I should correct myself. From an organizational perspective, the Franz contract may have set a terrible standard. Franz is not a max player, and Suggs shouldn't use that to determine his value.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Franz having the max contract, the guy is a stud who makes winning plays. He'll come good. I just want him looking sharp and ready to go now.

But from negotiation standpoint, if his numbers take a slight dip and Suggs can make a slight jump and close the gap in production between them, it's going to be hard for the FO to tell Suggs that they think Franz is worth $225M and Suggs is only worth $150M, for example. Who knows how that value is quantified? If you look at Per36, Suggs wasn't all that far off Franz' numbers. If he'd sustained his level of play, Suggs would've been good for 16.8ppg, 4.1rpg, 3.6apg, 1.9spg

And with Suggs being on the ball more this season, there's a chance he could end up leading Franz in rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, 3's and be only 3-4ppg less, and if that happens then Suggs is going to have a solid case for 'big 3' money.

Me? I'd max them all. Franz, Suggs, Paolo, AB, Jett. $250M on the 5 of them.

I think the gap between Suggs and Franz is quite massive tbh.

[GelbeWand09]

Comparing Franz & Suggs Preseason stats for contract negotiations must be a joke? It's Preseason, no non Rookie or fringe player cares for it. Haven't we learned our lesson about Franz already, that he only looks good when the games count?
I was one of the 1st saying, that I doubt Franz improves over the off-season, because of the national team or that he needs a midrange game. So I'm pretty critical about him too despite being a German. I'm no Homer in sports. I don't care for German players at all and I had never pink glasses about Magic players.

This doesn't change the fact that Franz is a much better player than Suggs. Sorry Suggs is a one way player and Franz our only real 2way player. 2way player are the most important part of contenders next to real superstars. Franz was our best player last year. It's 2024 not 1994, we live in the stats age. There is a huge gap between Franz & Jalen impact wise. Paolo is a one way player too, who needs to become more efficient to match Franz impact. Franz is a floor raiser, he probably isn't a 2nd option on a championship team with his current style without a midrange game and lousy 3s but he still makes the team better than any other player on the team. For me Franz is not a max player either but Suggs is not a 30 Mio player if Caruso and Co are not close to that figure.

[fendilim]

Comparing Franz & Suggs Preseason stats for contract negotiations must be a joke? It's Preseason, no non Rookie or fringe player cares for it. Haven't we learned our lesson about Franz already, that he only looks good when the games count?
Is was one of the 1st saying, that I doubt Franz improves over the off-season, because of the national team or that he needs a midrange game. So I'm pretty critical about him too despite being a German. I'm no Homer in sports. I don't care for German players at all and I had never pink glasses about Magic players.

This doesn't change the fact that Franz is a much better player than Suggs. Sorry Suggs is a one way player and Franz our only real 2way player. 2way player are the most important part of contenders next to real superstars. Franz was our best player last year. It's 2024 not 1994, we live in the stats age. There is a huge gap between Franz & Jalen impact wise. Paolo is a one way player too, who needs to become more efficient to match Franz impact. Franz is a floor raiser, he probably isn't a 2nd option a championship team with his current style without a midrange game and lousy 3s but he still makes the team better than any other player on the team. For me Franz is not a max player either but Suggs is not a 30 Mio player if Caruso and Co are not close to that figure.

Has Franz shown more improvement than Suggs during their first 3 years in the league?

[GelbeWand09]

Comparing Franz & Suggs Preseason stats for contract negotiations must be a joke? It's Preseason, no non Rookie or fringe player cares for it. Haven't we learned our lesson about Franz already, that he only looks good when the games count?
Is was one of the 1st saying, that I doubt Franz improves over the off-season, because of the national team or that he needs a midrange game. So I'm pretty critical about him too despite being a German. I'm no Homer in sports. I don't care for German players at all and I had never pink glasses about Magic players.

This doesn't change the fact that Franz is a much better player than Suggs. Sorry Suggs is a one way player and Franz our only real 2way player. 2way player are the most important part of contenders next to real superstars. Franz was our best player last year. It's 2024 not 1994, we live in the stats age. There is a huge gap between Franz & Jalen impact wise. Paolo is a one way player too, who needs to become more efficient to match Franz impact. Franz is a floor raiser, he probably isn't a 2nd option a championship team with his current style without a midrange game and lousy 3s but he still makes the team better than any other player on the team. For me Franz is not a max player either but Suggs is not a 30 Mio player if Caruso and Co are not close to that figure.

Has Franz shown more improvement than Suggs during their first 3 years in the league?

Sorry this question is no argument for Suggs at all. Suggs had statistically one of the worst offensive rookie seasons in history. Great that he improved on that while Franz was a impact player in his 2nd year. I love Suggs and always defended him over the first 2 years and was a believer in his shot, but this doesn't change the fact that he is a role player.

[fendilim]

Comparing Franz & Suggs Preseason stats for contract negotiations must be a joke? It's Preseason, no non Rookie or fringe player cares for it. Haven't we learned our lesson about Franz already, that he only looks good when the games count?
Is was one of the 1st saying, that I doubt Franz improves over the off-season, because of the national team or that he needs a midrange game. So I'm pretty critical about him too despite being a German. I'm no Homer in sports. I don't care for German players at all and I had never pink glasses about Magic players.

This doesn't change the fact that Franz is a much better player than Suggs. Sorry Suggs is a one way player and Franz our only real 2way player. 2way player are the most important part of contenders next to real superstars. Franz was our best player last year. It's 2024 not 1994, we live in the stats age. There is a huge gap between Franz & Jalen impact wise. Paolo is a one way player too, who needs to become more efficient to match Franz impact. Franz is a floor raiser, he probably isn't a 2nd option a championship team with his current style without a midrange game and lousy 3s but he still makes the team better than any other player on the team. For me Franz is not a max player either but Suggs is not a 30 Mio player if Caruso and Co are not close to that figure.

Has Franz shown more improvement than Suggs during their first 3 years in the league?

Sorry this question is no argument for Suggs at all. Suggs had statistically one of the worst offensive rookie seasons in history. Great that he improved on that while Franz was a big impact player in his 2nd year. I love Suggs and always defended him over the first 2 years and was a believer in his shot, but this doesn't change the fact that he is a role player.

he is a role player, and so is Franz.

The fact that we maxed Franz, there really isnt much leverage for management.

Franz regressed and Suggs improved a lot more than Franz.

[GelbeWand09]

Has Franz shown more improvement than Suggs during their first 3 years in the league?

Sorry this question is no argument for Suggs at all. Suggs had statistically one of the worst offensive rookie seasons in history. Great that he improved on that while Franz was a big impact player in his 2nd year. I love Suggs and always defended him over the first 2 years and was a believer in his shot, but this doesn't change the fact that he is a role player.

he is a role player, and so is Franz.

The fact that we maxed Franz, there really isnt much leverage for management.

Franz regressed and Suggs improved a lot more than Franz.

Stats heavily disagree with you. Franz is by every metric is our best player outside of low minutes JI. He is a fringe Allstar and Suggs a roleplayer. Big difference. Franz improved in everything last year except shooting and improved his impact stats while leading the team. He hasn't regressed just because you have 3p tunnel vision in observing his game.

[Jiwol]

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[GelbeWand09]

Read on Twitter

[p0peye]

Franz is not a max contract player as it stands today - and if he remains limited within 10 feet from basket, he already has hit plateau.

We should let Suggs hit restricted FA and than match, something we should've done with Franz as well.

[fendilim]

Sorry this question is no argument for Suggs at all. Suggs had statistically one of the worst offensive rookie seasons in history. Great that he improved on that while Franz was a big impact player in his 2nd year. I love Suggs and always defended him over the first 2 years and was a believer in his shot, but this doesn't change the fact that he is a role player.

he is a role player, and so is Franz.

The fact that we maxed Franz, there really isnt much leverage for management.

Franz regressed and Suggs improved a lot more than Franz.

Stats heavily disagree with you. Franz is by every metric is our best player outside of low minutes JI. He is a fringe Allstar and Suggs a roleplayer. Big difference. Franz improved in everything last year except shooting and improved his impact stats while leading the team. He hasn't regressed just because you have 3p tunnel vision in observing his game.

Paolo says Hi.

No way is Franz our best player, and no way he should be. He is mentally not built to be an alpha. He admitted it himself that he doesnt have a killer instinct.

[I Rasharted]

Suggs at $30m and Franz at $45 (added to Paolo at what - $50?) has treadmill all over it, IMO.

This. Starting to wonder about this team's ceiling.

This is the perfect time to make Suggs go out and earn his next contract. Which of course means the Magic will announce his 5-year extension soon. /shrug