I’ve been saying for years the SGA trade was historically bad. It’s about to become the GOAT

[KamikazeK]

OKC will need to win chipS before you can say that. And yes the s is there intentionally. Multiple chips. Right now it's not even better than the Brooklyn trade that got Boston the 2024 title.

[BigGargamel]

Read on Twitter

If OKC gets Cooper Flagg I predict the league just throws the towel in. I’ve been saying future dynasty for 2 years and got clowned, but it’s getting close to that level of stacked, and may already be.

You think Thunder fans wouldn't jump the gun after the last failed dynasty, but here we are again.

[Clemenza]

Stop the presses! How many picks did the Knicks just give up for Mikal Bridges who's now in search of his jump shot?

[Mr B]

With Kawhi likely missing games for a long while there is a pretty high probability OKC is adding a lottery pick this year in a mega stacked draft. They don’t miss on draft picks. Even if you stopped it there and MVP winner to be SGA, Jalen Williams and the next couple lottery picks is all they get… it’s probably the greatest trade in NBA history. Far surpassing Kobe for Vlade.

It may seem ugly now, but will get much uglier soon

OKC better win a couple of titles then (at least) or it could be the biggest waist of premium picks ever. If they don’t win any titles after having all these assets it’s going to look really bad. Just saying.

[clippertown]

I’m not so sure that this trade was that beneficial to Oklahoma. Sure, they got SGA, but he was not expected to be a superstar at the time. They then got Jaylen Williams who’s turned out to be pretty good, and also Tre Mann who turned out to be not so good. They still have a swap with the Clippers this year, and an unprotected from the Clippers next year. They also have a lottery protected pick from Miami this year. So far, they got SGA and Williams and the Clippers got Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.

If the Clippers, make the playoffs this year and next, Oklahoma will be unlikely to get anything great from those future picks.

In this situation, nobody knew that SGA was going to be a superstar and that Paul George was going to dramatically decline. Those are the brakes. Fortunately for the Clippers, they have managed to be a contender every year since acquiring PG and KL and are now one of the most desirable teams for free agents in the league. Their value since the trade has more than doubled.

[Sixers in 4]

I’m not so sure that this trade was that beneficial to Oklahoma. Sure, they got SGA, but he was not expected to be a superstar at the time. They then got Jaylen Williams who’s turned out to be pretty good, and also Tre Mann who turned out to be not so good. They still have a swap with the Clippers this year, and an unprotected from the Clippers next year. They also have a lottery protected pick from Miami this year. So far, they got SGA and Williams and the Clippers got Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.

If the Clippers, make the playoffs this year and next, Oklahoma will be unlikely to get anything great from those future picks.

In this situation, nobody knew that SGA was going to be a superstar and that Paul George was going to dramatically decline. Those are the brakes. Fortunately for the Clippers, they have managed to be a contender every year since acquiring PG and KL and are now one of the most desirable teams for free agents in the league. Their value since the trade has more than doubled.

1. If you think Paul George dramatically declined just wait until you watch Harden spend all season trying to be the man.

2. The trade is already a huge win for OKC. You can say noone knew SGA was going to be this good I mean that is revisionist he was one of the better young players in the game when he was traded and that is a risk LAC were aware of when they did the deal.

3. The Clippers are not a playoff team if Kawhi isn't healthy. In fact they are an injury or two away from being a bottom five team in the west.

4. The trade is far from over but it's already one of the worst trades in NBA history but inorder for it to be the GOAT then one of those picks have to be top five and hit. Then it's a wrap. It's the Deshaun Watson trade of the NBA because not only did they give up all those assets for George who is lesser than SGA but Kawhi is damaged goods. Imagine having to buy a timeshare for the privilege to overpay for a house that is more expensive and worse than your current residence? Or buy a lemon vehicle just for the right to purchase a vehicle that is worse than what you already drive.

That is what the Clippers did with George and SGA. What the Browns did with Deshaun and Mayfield. What gives the clippers the edge is they did it for the right to pay for damaged goods in Kawhi that puts them past the Browns for me. Not even the Browns were that dumb.

It maybe actually the worst trade of any sport in the modern era.

[clippertown]

I’m not so sure that this trade was that beneficial to Oklahoma. Sure, they got SGA, but he was not expected to be a superstar at the time. They then got Jaylen Williams who’s turned out to be pretty good, and also Tre Mann who turned out to be not so good. They still have a swap with the Clippers this year, and an unprotected from the Clippers next year. They also have a lottery protected pick from Miami this year. So far, they got SGA and Williams and the Clippers got Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.

If the Clippers, make the playoffs this year and next, Oklahoma will be unlikely to get anything great from those future picks.

In this situation, nobody knew that SGA was going to be a superstar and that Paul George was going to dramatically decline. Those are the brakes. Fortunately for the Clippers, they have managed to be a contender every year since acquiring PG and KL and are now one of the most desirable teams for free agents in the league. Their value since the trade has more than doubled.

1. If you think Paul George dramatically declined just wait until you watch Harden spend all season trying to be the man.

2. The trade is already a huge win for OKC. You can say noone knew SGA was going to be this good I mean that is revisionist he was one of the better young players in the game when he was traded and that is a risk LAC were aware of when they did the deal.

3. The Clippers are not a playoff team if Kawhi isn't healthy. In fact they are an injury or two away from being a bottom five team in the west.

4. The trade is far from over but it's already one of the worst trades in NBA history but inorder for it to be the GOAT then one of those picks have to be top five and hit. Then it's a wrap. It's the Deshaun Watson trade of the NBA because not only did they give up all those assets for George who is lesser than SGA but Kawhi is damaged goods. Imagine having to buy a timeshare for the privilege to overpay for a house that is more expensive and worse than your current residence? Or buy a lemon vehicle just for the right to purchase a vehicle that is worse than what you already drive.

That is what the Clippers did with George and SGA. What the Browns did with Deshaun and Mayfield. What gives the clippers the edge is they did it for the right to pay for damaged goods in Kawhi that puts them past the Browns for me. Not even the Browns were that dumb.

It maybe actually the worst trade of any sport in the modern era.

Lol. This is a really harsh take. None of it makes sense, but I think I get the point you are trying to make.

1. PG has declined. Its the reason the Clippers rarely made it out of the first round. If healthy, Clips would have been awesome. But PG and KL were always injured. Now the Clips only need to worry about KL's knees, and Philly can worry about PG's.

2. SGA just came off his rookie season where he performed admirably but was far from a sure thing. PG was a sure thing. It would have been the dumbest missed trade in modern history if the Clippers did not do what everybody but you, knew they needed to do.

3. The Clippers are now designed for injury mitigation. We replaced the 55 games a year we got from PG with KPJ, Dunn, Batum, Bamba and DJJ. The team is deeper and plays more together. Enjoy PG's hero ball. He never met a shot he didn't want to take.

4. How is a trade of KL and PG to a team like the Clippers the worst trade in NBA history? The team has now been in on a playoffs streak longer than the Warriors. This is a really narrow-minded argument to make. It's far from the worst trade ever. lol.

I just can't get past the worst trade in modern sports comment. Getting PG and KL for a rookie and picks is the worst trade ever in any sport since the beginning of the modern era? I guess you must really hate Kawhi or are still bitter about Harden. Or maybe you have come to realize that your team has wasted Embiids prime with the constant injuries that PG will (and currently) deals with. Clips have a very deep roster, but if injuries hit Philly, they have zero depth and will definitely struggle. PG wasn't cheap.

[Jabroni Lames]

I’m just amazed at how they targeted SGA. Presti is unreal. His value at the time was a poor man’s Maxey and Presti knew he’d be a top 3 guy in this league

lol, no. There was no other young prospect to target. The trade literally fell into Presti's lap, with Kawhi holding a gun to Clipper's head.

The superstar trade formula is pretty well established: young prospect (SGA) + picks + expiring salary (Gallo)

Okay you can say that but at the end of the day the trade was made, right?

Yeah, but your "Presti targetting SGA" take is nothing to be amazed at. It fell in his lap.

Sam's made a lot of great GM moves, but that one was more about being lucky, than good. It just so happened that Kawhi's hand-picked sidekick was in OKC and Kawhi had a once-in-a-career opportunity to call all the shots.

If PG had stayed in Indy, then it's the Pacers getting that haul from the Clippers, not prescient Presti.

[QPR]

lol, no. There was no other young prospect to target. The trade literally fell into Presti's lap, with Kawhi holding a gun to Clipper's head.

The superstar trade formula is pretty well established: young prospect (SGA) + picks + expiring salary (Gallo)

Okay you can say that but at the end of the day the trade was made, right?

Yeah, but your "Presti targetting SGA" take is nothing to be amazed at. It fell in his lap.

Sam's made a lot of great GM moves, but that one was more about being lucky, than good. It just so happened that Kawhi's hand-picked sidekick was in OKC and Kawhi had a once-in-a-career opportunity to call all the shots.

If PG had stayed in Indy, then it's the Pacers getting that haul from the Clippers, not prescient Presti.

A lot of good GMing is luck though. You become a great GM when it seems this luck follows you, or you seem to get lucky more than not.

Presti still managed to extract incredible value from the trade in terms of picks, and he also managed to land PG from Indiana in the first place when no one saw that coming.

[Laimbeer]

2019-07-10

• Paul George

for

• Danilo Gallinari
• Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
• 2021 first round pick (#18-Tre Mann)
• 2022 first round pick (#12-Jalen Williams)
• first round pick (protected top 14 in 2023-25, unprotected in 2026) (2023 #18-Jaime Jaquez Jr.)
• Thunder option to swap 2023 first round picks with Clippers (not exercised)
• 2024 first round pick (#26-Dillon Jones)
• Thunder option to swap 2025 first round pick with Clippers
• 2026 first round pick

[clippertown]

lol, no. There was no other young prospect to target. The trade literally fell into Presti's lap, with Kawhi holding a gun to Clipper's head.

The superstar trade formula is pretty well established: young prospect (SGA) + picks + expiring salary (Gallo)

Okay you can say that but at the end of the day the trade was made, right?

Yeah, but your "Presti targetting SGA" take is nothing to be amazed at. It fell in his lap.

Sam's made a lot of great GM moves, but that one was more about being lucky, than good. It just so happened that Kawhi's hand-picked sidekick was in OKC and Kawhi had a once-in-a-career opportunity to call all the shots.

If PG had stayed in Indy, then it's the Pacers getting that haul from the Clippers, not prescient Presti.

If Presti really valued SGA, he would not have asked for so many additional picks from the Clippers. The only reason Presti insisted on SGA was because he was the only young player with talent on the team. The only other youngsters were Jerome Robinson (out of league) and Landry Shamet (unsigned so far this year). OKC wanted no part of either of these two.

SGA averaged 10.8 ppg as a starter on the Clippers. Nice numbers for a rookie, but nowhere near MVP contention as was PG13.

[clippertown]

2019-07-10

• Paul George

for

• Danilo Gallinari
• Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
• 2021 first round pick (#18-Tre Mann)
• 2022 first round pick (#12-Jalen Williams)
• first round pick (protected top 14 in 2023-25, unprotected in 2026) (2023 #18-Jaime Jaquez Jr.)
• Thunder option to swap 2023 first round picks with Clippers (not exercised)
• 2024 first round pick (#26-Dillon Jones)
• Thunder option to swap 2025 first round pick with Clippers
• 2026 first round pick

Nice breakdown. Thanks.

So basically, it is PG for SGA and Jalen Williams, so far. OKC still wins due to SGA being awesome, but it’s not the greatest deal of all time. PG was #3 in the running for MVP the year before he was traded and OKC didn’t want to trade him at all.

One can only fantasize that Kawhi realized SGA’s potential earlier and did not force the team to trade for PG.

[SomeBunghole]

If Presti really valued SGA, he would not have asked for so many additional picks from the Clippers.

This is a ludicrous statement. You take whatever you can get in an negotiation. If someone offered me a Benz in exchange for my Hyundai and also offered 10 grand into the bargain, I'm not going to say no to the cash because I think the Benz is valuable enough. You take whatever you can get.

[ClubLakers KB8]

If Presti really valued SGA, he would not have asked for so many additional picks from the Clippers.

This is a ludicrous statement. You take whatever you can get in an negotiation. If someone offered me a Benz in exchange for my Hyundai and also offered 10 grand into the bargain, I'm not going to say no to the cash because I think the Benz is valuable enough. You take whatever you can get.

Exactly. Presti had fish in a barrel. He knew the Clippers NEEDED to get this done, so he gutted LAC's cupboard. It's this thing called leverage.

[Asianiac_24]

Some weird takes on this thread. But the one I'll point out is that ALL trades have to be evaluated via hindsight. When the trade happens, you don't know if it was a good trade because you don't know the results. Once you know the results, you can evaluate whether it was a good trade. How else would it work? Teams can make a bad trade, even if they made the best decision they could with the information available to them at the time.

That isn't how the valuation of trade works though. Just because a pick you traded PRE-DRAFT turned out to be a great player, doesn't mean that pick is worth who that player eventually became. Each pick has its own value regardless of who it turns out to be because the draft is basically a lottery.

Suppose in the 2015 draft, pre-draft Cleveland trades the #1 pick for a second round pick, straight up. That's a bad trade right? But suppose instead of picking Andrew Wiggins #1, they used that second round pick to pick Jokic. Is that trade now a good one?

Or suppose I trade a Porsche 911 for $6. I then use that $6 to buy a lottery ticket, and the lottery ticket wins 5 million. Was the Porsche 911 trade a good one now that it turned out to be 5 million dollars? I don't agree with that. Those are two separate transactions.

[Sixers in 4]

I’m not so sure that this trade was that beneficial to Oklahoma. Sure, they got SGA, but he was not expected to be a superstar at the time. They then got Jaylen Williams who’s turned out to be pretty good, and also Tre Mann who turned out to be not so good. They still have a swap with the Clippers this year, and an unprotected from the Clippers next year. They also have a lottery protected pick from Miami this year. So far, they got SGA and Williams and the Clippers got Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.

If the Clippers, make the playoffs this year and next, Oklahoma will be unlikely to get anything great from those future picks.

In this situation, nobody knew that SGA was going to be a superstar and that Paul George was going to dramatically decline. Those are the brakes. Fortunately for the Clippers, they have managed to be a contender every year since acquiring PG and KL and are now one of the most desirable teams for free agents in the league. Their value since the trade has more than doubled.

1. If you think Paul George dramatically declined just wait until you watch Harden spend all season trying to be the man.

2. The trade is already a huge win for OKC. You can say noone knew SGA was going to be this good I mean that is revisionist he was one of the better young players in the game when he was traded and that is a risk LAC were aware of when they did the deal.

3. The Clippers are not a playoff team if Kawhi isn't healthy. In fact they are an injury or two away from being a bottom five team in the west.

4. The trade is far from over but it's already one of the worst trades in NBA history but inorder for it to be the GOAT then one of those picks have to be top five and hit. Then it's a wrap. It's the Deshaun Watson trade of the NBA because not only did they give up all those assets for George who is lesser than SGA but Kawhi is damaged goods. Imagine having to buy a timeshare for the privilege to overpay for a house that is more expensive and worse than your current residence? Or buy a lemon vehicle just for the right to purchase a vehicle that is worse than what you already drive.

That is what the Clippers did with George and SGA. What the Browns did with Deshaun and Mayfield. What gives the clippers the edge is they did it for the right to pay for damaged goods in Kawhi that puts them past the Browns for me. Not even the Browns were that dumb.

It maybe actually the worst trade of any sport in the modern era.

Lol. This is a really harsh take. None of it makes sense, but I think I get the point you are trying to make.

1. PG has declined. Its the reason the Clippers rarely made it out of the first round. If healthy, Clips would have been awesome. But PG and KL were always injured. Now the Clips only need to worry about KL's knees, and Philly can worry about PG's.

2. SGA just came off his rookie season where he performed admirably but was far from a sure thing. PG was a sure thing. It would have been the dumbest missed trade in modern history if the Clippers did not do what everybody but you, knew they needed to do.

3. The Clippers are now designed for injury mitigation. We replaced the 55 games a year we got from PG with KPJ, Dunn, Batum, Bamba and DJJ. The team is deeper and plays more together. Enjoy PG's hero ball. He never met a shot he didn't want to take.

4. How is a trade of KL and PG to a team like the Clippers the worst trade in NBA history? The team has now been in on a playoffs streak longer than the Warriors. This is a really narrow-minded argument to make. It's far from the worst trade ever. lol.

I just can't get past the worst trade in modern sports comment. Getting PG and KL for a rookie and picks is the worst trade ever in any sport since the beginning of the modern era? I guess you must really hate Kawhi or are still bitter about Harden. Or maybe you have come to realize that your team has wasted Embiids prime with the constant injuries that PG will (and currently) deals with. Clips have a very deep roster, but if injuries hit Philly, they have zero depth and will definitely struggle. PG wasn't cheap.

In order for that to happen the last pick needs to hit but Williams and SGA already put it up there. It needs a cherry though to be the GOAT I agree because PG was a good player.

It is probably the worst trade of the modern era. I can't remember a worse on maybe Deshaun of the three major sports but that is about it. I said modern era because there are some real doozies like the Herschel walker trade that will never be topped. Herschel Walker was a dude who could also still play too but that doesn't mean anything when you are giving up that much talent.

As far as the rest goes it really isn't revisionist at all. You want to talk about a trade that looked fair at the time that just never panned out go take a look at the Sixers trades they got shellacked on because the dudes turned into busts. Everyone in LA including Doc knew SGA was going to be good. They have said as much and the narrative at the time was the LAC gave up way too much but that was ok because Kawhi was a package deal even-though OKC never gave up Kawhi.

Now we know Kawhi was and is damaged goods. He probably has negative value if they tried to move him. You can't win anything with him because you can't ever count on his degenerative knees this isn't bad injury luck or something that is going to go away it will follow him to the end of his career. We know that and if the LAC did their homework they should have known that prior to doing the trade. Now they are stuck with it because they have no assets, no cap space, and no other option but to go all in with Kawhi.

As far as Harden goes I wasn't even going to go deeply into that trade but it was god awful too. George was willing to return but they essentially chose Harden instead. The Sixers wouldn't have even been able to take George if the LAC didn't take back PJ Tucker. They would have been much better off never doing that trade keeping PG. Ask anyone here would you rather have PG at 49M or Harden and PJ at 44M. Noone is going to answer yes and now they are tied to Harden too because they are capped out over the next three years and traded what little remained of their assets for Harden. If he has anything remotely close to a good season they are going to be forced to resign him for big money at 36 years if he opts out and if he shows further decline he opts in. It's lose lose. You can say Paul George last year of his deal will be ugly but at least you know what you have.

[clippertown]

If Presti really valued SGA, he would not have asked for so many additional picks from the Clippers.

This is a ludicrous statement. You take whatever you can get in an negotiation. If someone offered me a Benz in exchange for my Hyundai and also offered 10 grand into the bargain, I'm not going to say no to the cash because I think the Benz is valuable enough. You take whatever you can get.

Exactly. Presti had fish in a barrel. He knew the Clippers NEEDED to get this done, so he gutted LAC's cupboard. It's this thing called leverage.

Everybody knows Presti had the Clippers over a barrel. My point is that if SGA had been given another year with the Clippers to show his skills, the gap between SGA and PG13 would have been smaller and would not have resulted in as large a pick yield.

Its pretty obvious. Not sure why I am explaining it. Nobody knew how good SGA would become back then, thus the extra picks.

[og15]

2019-07-10

• Paul George

for

• Danilo Gallinari
• Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
• 2021 first round pick (#18-Tre Mann)
• 2022 first round pick (#12-Jalen Williams)
• first round pick (protected top 14 in 2023-25, unprotected in 2026) (2023 #18-Jaime Jaquez Jr.)
• Thunder option to swap 2023 first round picks with Clippers (not exercised)
• 2024 first round pick (#26-Dillon Jones)
• Thunder option to swap 2025 first round pick with Clippers
• 2026 first round pick

Nice breakdown. Thanks.

So basically, it is PG for SGA and Jalen Williams, so far. OKC still wins due to SGA being awesome, but it’s not the greatest deal of all time. PG was #3 in the running for MVP the year before he was traded and OKC didn’t want to trade him at all.

One can only fantasize that Kawhi realized SGA’s potential earlier and did not force the team to trade for PG.

Kawhi of course is not a talent scout, in fact many players are awful at it, but of course SGA also went 11th, so it was not obvious he was going to be an MVP level player.

The Clippers also made the trade based on getting George and Kawhi. What they would have been willing to give up would change if they were just trading for George and it had no relation to Kawhi.

It's been explained many times that the Clippers viewed the trade as Paul George + opportunity to sign Kawhi, hence why there was an overpay (yes, regardless of SGA's outcome it was an overpay, but nothing close to worst trade ever).

That said, how good SGA became doesn't factor into whether the trade was good or reasonable or not. The Clippers saw All-Star potential in SGA, but Paul George was already an All-Star. It's only a bad trade if one is arguing that the consensus opinion of SGA after his rookie season was future superstar / MVP, and that was 100% NOT the case.

[SomeBunghole]

Nobody knew how good SGA would become back then

It sure seems like Presti did.

[chrisab123]

Not sure if it will beat the Celtics/Brooklyn heist since it resulted in a title and two finals appearances so far.