Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[Devilzsidewalk]

Would you trade Randle and DET 1st for Robert Williams III and Deni Avdija? Avdija has descending contract only 12 mil in 2027-28, 15.6 mil this season. Pair it with DDV contract and this move might give TC a lot of creativity moving forward. Like re-signing both Reid and NAW to reasonable contracts. Also I assume that with high probability Randle will test FA market. So downgrading in talent by bringing Avdija while upgrading depth might be a workaround. POR might see additional value in re-signing Randle, although I am not sure.

Also I view Williams as expiring contract next season, can't really rely on him because he is an injury prone big man. But IF Williams can stay healthy, it will significantly boost our frontcourt rotation, he also is a odd man in POR since they have Klingan and Ayton.

Gobert/Williams/Garza
Avdija/Reid/Minott/Miller
MCD/Ingles/TJ
Edwards/NAW/DDV + Clark
Conley/DDV/Dillingham + Nix

I like Avdija a LOT because I think playing for bad team kind of overshadowed his high IQ, competitiveness and toughness. He is not the most athletic, not the most talented, but he is a hard worker, has dog mentality.

Maybe, but Portland probably wouldn't. They just traded 2 firsts and Randle doesn't offer them much as a keeper or to flip. If they're ready to start taking things seriously, they'd want somebody under contract. If they're still in rebuilding mode, he gets in the way.

[minimus]

Would you trade Randle and DET 1st for Robert Williams III and Deni Avdija?

Maybe, but Portland probably wouldn't. They just traded 2 firsts and Randle doesn't offer them much as a keeper or to flip. If they're ready to start taking things seriously, they'd want somebody under contract. If they're still in rebuilding mode, he gets in the way.

Fair enough. I would add Miller (in separate trade), but I assume it wont be enough, unless we get lottery pick in 2025 draft from DET

[BlacJacMac]

Would you trade Randle and DET 1st for Robert Williams III and Deni Avdija? Avdija has descending contract only 12 mil in 2027-28, 15.6 mil this season. Pair it with DDV contract and this move might give TC a lot of creativity moving forward. Like re-signing both Reid and NAW to reasonable contracts. Also I assume that with high probability Randle will test FA market. So downgrading in talent by bringing Avdija while upgrading depth might be a workaround. POR might see additional value in re-signing Randle, although I am not sure.

Also I view Williams as expiring contract next season, can't really rely on him because he is an injury prone big man. But IF Williams can stay healthy, it will significantly boost our frontcourt rotation, he also is a odd man in POR since they have Klingan and Ayton.

Gobert/Williams/Garza
Avdija/Reid/Minott/Miller
MCD/Ingles/TJ
Edwards/NAW/DDV + Clark
Conley/DDV/Dillingham + Nix

I like Avdija a LOT because I think playing for bad team kind of overshadowed his high IQ, competitiveness and toughness. He is not the most athletic, not the most talented, but he is a hard worker, has dog mentality.

Maybe, but Portland probably wouldn't. They just traded 2 firsts and Randle doesn't offer them much as a keeper or to flip. If they're ready to start taking things seriously, they'd want somebody under contract. If they're still in rebuilding mode, he gets in the way.

Yup. Avdija is only 23, on a great contract and had a breakout season last year.

He's part of their rebuild, not a trade chip.

[TimberKat]

Would you trade Randle and DET 1st for Robert Williams III and Deni Avdija? Avdija has descending contract only 12 mil in 2027-28, 15.6 mil this season. Pair it with DDV contract and this move might give TC a lot of creativity moving forward. Like re-signing both Reid and NAW to reasonable contracts. Also I assume that with high probability Randle will test FA market. So downgrading in talent by bringing Avdija while upgrading depth might be a workaround. POR might see additional value in re-signing Randle, although I am not sure.

Also I view Williams as expiring contract next season, can't really rely on him because he is an injury prone big man. But IF Williams can stay healthy, it will significantly boost our frontcourt rotation, he also is a odd man in POR since they have Klingan and Ayton.

Gobert/Williams/Garza
Avdija/Reid/Minott/Miller
MCD/Ingles/TJ
Edwards/NAW/DDV + Clark
Conley/DDV/Dillingham + Nix

I like Avdija a LOT because I think playing for bad team kind of overshadowed his high IQ, competitiveness and toughness. He is not the most athletic, not the most talented, but he is a hard worker, has dog mentality.

Maybe, but Portland probably wouldn't. They just traded 2 firsts and Randle doesn't offer them much as a keeper or to flip. If they're ready to start taking things seriously, they'd want somebody under contract. If they're still in rebuilding mode, he gets in the way.

Yup. Avdija is only 23, on a great contract and had a breakout season last year.

He's part of their rebuild, not a trade chip.

I hate trading down with talent in the name of fit in NBA. Could we come up with a trade the get us another all star to pair with Ant?

[minimus]

Maybe, but Portland probably wouldn't. They just traded 2 firsts and Randle doesn't offer them much as a keeper or to flip. If they're ready to start taking things seriously, they'd want somebody under contract. If they're still in rebuilding mode, he gets in the way.

Yup. Avdija is only 23, on a great contract and had a breakout season last year.

He's part of their rebuild, not a trade chip.

I hate trading down with talent in the name of fit in NBA. Could we come up with a trade the get us another all star to pair with Ant?

New CBA says no.

[Klomp]

Would you trade Randle and DET 1st for Robert Williams III and Deni Avdija? Avdija has descending contract only 12 mil in 2027-28, 15.6 mil this season. Pair it with DDV contract and this move might give TC a lot of creativity moving forward. Like re-signing both Reid and NAW to reasonable contracts. Also I assume that with high probability Randle will test FA market. So downgrading in talent by bringing Avdija while upgrading depth might be a workaround. POR might see additional value in re-signing Randle, although I am not sure.

Also I view Williams as expiring contract next season, can't really rely on him because he is an injury prone big man. But IF Williams can stay healthy, it will significantly boost our frontcourt rotation, he also is a odd man in POR since they have Klingan and Ayton.

Gobert/Williams/Garza
Avdija/Reid/Minott/Miller
MCD/Ingles/TJ
Edwards/NAW/DDV + Clark
Conley/DDV/Dillingham + Nix

I like Avdija a LOT because I think playing for bad team kind of overshadowed his high IQ, competitiveness and toughness. He is not the most athletic, not the most talented, but he is a hard worker, has dog mentality.

I don't know about this specific idea, but I think this is exactly the type of framework a potential Randle trade will look like. Just like the Towns trade.

I will continue to say, I think DiVincenzo was the prize of the Towns trade. Towns was the best player in the trade, which will entice whatever team you are dealing with. DiVincenzo was who got this deal done. So who are the players who could be that piece in a Randle trade? Avdija might be one, and he is certainly the correct prototype.

[Klomp]

My next DiVincenzo-like "say no until he's in a deal" target is in Atlanta.

My perfect trade is Randle for Bogdanovic and Okongwu. Okongwu will be a sticking point I think, but I know I want a minimum of one of them. I also know Atlanta has a similar-priced expiring in Larry Nance Jr., in case we need to pivot off of Okongwu, but we'd need a pick or two at that point.

[TimberKat]

Yup. Avdija is only 23, on a great contract and had a breakout season last year.

He's part of their rebuild, not a trade chip.

I hate trading down with talent in the name of fit in NBA. Could we come up with a trade the get us another all star to pair with Ant?

New CBA says no.

Wondering how timing of the rules work. Supposed we traded JMcD to Detroit for 2 1st to get below 2nd apron. Then package Randle + Conley + match + 2 Detroit 1st to Char for Ball. Not saying we will do it but would that actually work?

[MN7725]

My next DiVincenzo-like "say no until he's in a deal" target is in Atlanta.

My perfect trade is Randle for Bogdanovic and Okongwu. Okongwu will be a sticking point I think, but I know I want a minimum of one of them. I also know Atlanta has a similar-priced expiring in Larry Nance Jr., in case we need to pivot off of Okongwu, but we'd need a pick or two at that point.

maybe Hunter/Okongwu since Hunter hasn't expanded his game like ATL probably hoped when they signed him and would be almost a salary dump to for Johnson and ZR who play similar spot

Hunter just isn't that good though

[shrink]

I hate trading down with talent in the name of fit in NBA. Could we come up with a trade the get us another all star to pair with Ant?

New CBA says no.

Wondering how timing of the rules work. Supposed we traded JMcD to Detroit for 2 1st to get below 2nd apron. Then package Randle + Conley + match + 2 Detroit 1st to Char for Ball. Not saying we will do it but would that actually work?

In the CBA, the rule is that transactions need to be legal under the restrictions after the deal is done.

Want a mind-blower? MIN technically isn’t hardcapped as a first or second apron team, because we haven’t done any transactions that violate a restriction! Vet min deals, and paying our own draft picks, even Dillingham, raised our payroll without triggering hard cap restrictions, because they are allowed at any salary or apron.

The reason we need to operate like we are a first or second apron team is because our salary is so high, doing any of them would be retroactively illegal. Say we wanted to use the MLE. If we did, our new team payroll would be well over the aprons, and so the league would reject the deal.

In this case, I think you’re asking if we could drop our payroll below a certain number to avoid restrictions, could we shoot back up in the next transaction and violate apron restrictions? I like the thinking, but the answer to that is no. If we violate second apron rules, it only works if we are under the second apron with everything completed. (Maybe this does? I didn’t look closely, and just wanted to answer your question on CBA timing)

[Klomp]

Hunter just isn't that good though

Yeah, this is why I don't consider it an option.

[TimberKat]

New CBA says no.

Wondering how timing of the rules work. Supposed we traded JMcD to Detroit for 2 1st to get below 2nd apron. Then package Randle + Conley + match + 2 Detroit 1st to Char for Ball. Not saying we will do it but would that actually work?

In the CBA, the rule is that transactions need to be legal under the restrictions after the deal is done.

Want a mind-blower? MIN technically isn’t hardcapped as a first or second apron team, because we haven’t done any transactions that violate a restriction! Vet min deals, and paying our own draft picks, even Dillingham, raised our payroll without triggering hard cap restrictions, because they are allowed at any salary or apron.

The reason we need to operate like we are a first or second apron team is because our salary is so high, doing any of them would be retroactively illegal. Say we wanted to use the MLE. If we did, our new team payroll would be well over the aprons, and so the league would reject the deal.

In this case, I think you’re asking if we could drop our payroll below a certain number to avoid restrictions, could we shoot back up in the next transaction and violate apron restrictions? I like the thinking, but the answer to that is no. If we violate second apron rules, it only works if we are under the second apron with everything completed. (Maybe this does? I didn’t look closely, and just wanted to answer your question on CBA timing)

In my example, we started in 2nd apron, after all the trade, we end up 1st apron. I am assuming you can trade 2 for 1 in 1st apron.

[cmoss84]

Cade Cunningham has a poison pill until next summer, and I'm not sure how those work. But...would you trade Randle and Jaden for him? Then extend Naz, NAW and Rudy. If possible.
I know this seems expensive but some big decisions need to be made soon!

[minimus]

Cade Cunningham has a poison pill until next summer, and I'm not sure how those work. But...would you trade Randle and Jaden for him? Then extend Naz, NAW and Rudy. If possible.
I know this seems expensive but some big decisions need to be made soon!

Gobert has already signed extension. In theory you can do such deal in off-season, but I am not sure. Both financially and from chemistry standpoint Cade is a questionable fit. I'd rather keep Randle and MCD if Randle agrees to sign a reasonable deal.

[Colbinii]

Cade Cunningham has a poison pill until next summer, and I'm not sure how those work. But...would you trade Randle and Jaden for him? Then extend Naz, NAW and Rudy. If possible.
I know this seems expensive but some big decisions need to be made soon!

Id probably roll the dice for Cade given his talent and potential. His fit next to ANT is really good on paper.

That said, we would have 0 chance at winning title this year with the move.

[Klomp]

MIN Out: Nickeil Alexander-Walker ($4,312,500)
MIN In: Walker Kessler ($2,965,920)

UTA Out: Walker Kessler ($2,965,920)
UTA In: DaRon Holmes ($3,065,640)

DEN Out: DaRon Holmes ($3,065,640)
DEN In: Nickeil Alexander-Walker ($4,312,500)

I think technically, Denver needs to send Utah something additional because of the second apron, but I still believe the trade structure is sound. Alexander-Walker has been valuable, but the need for more interior defense and rebounding is showing itself as well.

[minimus]

MIN Out: Nickeil Alexander-Walker ($4,312,500)
MIN In: Walker Kessler ($2,965,920)

UTA Out: Walker Kessler ($2,965,920)
UTA In: DaRon Holmes ($3,065,640)

DEN Out: DaRon Holmes ($3,065,640)
DEN In: Nickeil Alexander-Walker ($4,312,500)

I think technically, Denver needs to send Utah something additional because of the second apron, but I still believe the trade structure is sound. Alexander-Walker has been valuable, but the need for more interior defense and rebounding is showing itself as well.

While I hate to trade NAW, especially to DEN, but Kessler makes a lot of sense, since he is same archetype as Gobert as defender and has been developing offensive player.

Watch this UTA action: non shooting Kessler in corner, so his defender is not paying attention, but once Kessler gets the ball, he execute a perfect DHO via Grenade pass



Here he gets the ball deep in the paint and makes quick kickout pass to the corner.


Bringing Kessler here check a lot of boxes: we will have continuity when Gobert retires. We push both Randle and Reid to play their natural positions. We will have a contingency play when Gobert is not playing or struggling. And finally Gobert can mentor Kessler.

[Klomp]

Bringing Kessler here check a lot of boxes: we will have continuity when Gobert retires. We push both Randle and Reid to play their natural positions. We will have a contingency play when Gobert is not playing or struggling. And finally Gobert can mentor Kessler.

...and Connelly trades for someone he originally drafted.

[shrink]

I’ve loved what I’ve seen out of NAW this season! He’s playing the best defense on the team, and he’s 10-15 from 3P.

Today I actually looked at DiVincenzo trades! He’s obvious worth more, as a player, skillset, and on a three year, cost-effective deal. It’s also difficult to find trade targets under NAW’s $4.3, but DDV’s $11.4, unlocks a different caliber of trade partner, including lottery picks on rookie scale.

I am not all the way there, that I’d trade DDV over NAW. I might never get there. I just thought it was wild that I’d actually be asking the question, and that’s a tribute to NAW’s strong play this year.

[Klomp]

I’ve loved what I’ve seen out of NAW this season! He’s playing the best defense on the team, and he’s 10-15 from 3P.

Today I actually looked at DiVincenzo trades! He’s obvious worth more, as a player and on a three year, cost-effective deal. It’s also difficult to find trade targets under NAW’s $4.3, but DDV’s $11.4, unlocks a different caliber of trade partner, including lottery picks on rookie scale.

I am not all the way there, that I’d trade DDV vs NAW. However, I never thought I’d actually be asking the question, and that’s a tribute to NAW’s strong play this year.

While I understand the idea behind it, remember that DiVincenzo is locked into an enormous bargain, while NAW is about to be a free agent. I expect NAW to cost at least what we are currently paying DiVincenzo, plus we would have to pay whever the trade nets in return. A decision like that could end up costing you either Randle or Naz, while at the moment I believe there is an outside chance at keeping both.