2024-2025 Regular Season Game 7: Orlando Magic (3-3) at Dallas Mavericks (3-2)

[OrlChamps2030]

I'm not saying it's the exact same thing like for like.

Just the overarching point that when your best player doesn't play, it's a lot harder to win.

Why say it’s not any different than Philly then? That’s pretty misleading.

With Embiid and Pg13 out, no one really matters outside of Maxey. It’s him and a bunch of scrubs.

With Paolo out, we have Franz, Suggs, Isaac, WCJ, KCP, Cole all locked into multi year deals making decent money with draft capital invested in them. 2 sophomore lotto picks in Black and Jett.

Guys have to play better. Hopefully they turn it around

A lot of people in this very forum are suggesting Franz isn't worth his contract because he's not capable of leveling up to be a No. 1 option when the team's clear No. 1 option isn't playing.

I think that's completely ridiculous personally.

The Sixers are 1-4 and Maxey's TS% is .503. Is he not worth his max contract because he hasn't been able to level up into a No. 1 option through the first week of the season?

Of course he's worth his contract. He's a damn good basketball player, just like Franz.

But right now both guys are simply being asked to do more offensively than they're capable of doing at an efficient level.

Maxey is starting alongside Lowry/Oubre/Martin/Drummond

Sorry dude two completely different scenarios

Franz (and everyone else) needs to play better. Luckily it’s only up from here

[Knightro]

Oh no all the bandwagon fans are leaving

Nope. Just hoping the FO doesn't think that internal development alone will turn this team into a contender.

I'm hoping that all of these team option contracts were done specifically to try to work their 'magic' (lol) after December 15th.

I think what we saw in the first four games is the vision for better or worse.

Really don't see a lot of moves on the horizon. Cole perhaps.

[eyriq]

Oh no all the bandwagon fans are leaving

Nope. Just hoping the FO doesn't think that internal development alone will turn this team into a contender.

I'm hoping that all of these team option contracts were done specifically to try to work their 'magic' (lol) after December 15th.

They just paid Franz and Suggs and are about to pay Paolo. They definitely do think that internal development alone will turn them into a contender, in so far as a team's three best players contribute more towards building a contender than the rest of the roster combined. AB and Jett are going to get ample opportunity to grow into significant roles as well. We are still a season away from having expectations to go deep into the playoffs. Time is on our side.

[Redwood]

Oh no all the bandwagon fans are leaving

So a real fan is one that questions nothing?

This is one of the most absurd aspects of modern day times, blind loyalty to any one thing without the least bit of critical thought.

You aren't a bandwagon fan to offer fair criticism, I wish people would retire this idiotic way of thinking.

[CocoaFan]

I know it has only been two games but Maxy put a better effort in those games without Embiid than Franz has without Paolo.

Hell, look at the effort that Paolo put in while Franz was gone. It’s night and day.

Magic were 3-7 w/o Franz playing and 4-8 when Paolo didn't play last season. Paolo and Franz bring totally different skillsets to the table. Franz is not going to be the 1v1 scorer that Paolo is. Franz is more of a connector that moves the ball, slashes to the basket and plays better defense. Those 2 really complement each and adding in Suggs really makes a nice trio. It seems people here expect Franz to turn into Paolo when Paolo is out. Paolo's absence though really points out the Magic need for a 3rd scoring option.

Paolo only missed 2 games last season how were we 4-8 without him?

My mistake. Magic record w/o Franz was 3-7 last season and 4-8 w/o Paolo all time. Got it from Google

[Knightro]

Maxey is starting alongside Lowry/Oubre/Martin/Drummond

Sorry dude two completely different scenarios

Franz (and everyone else) needs to play better. Luckily it’s only up from here

Those are four capable veterans.

Not sure how much difference there is between those four guys and Suggs/KCP/TDS/Moritz all things considered.

[thelead]

Oh no all the bandwagon fans are leaving

Nope. Just hoping the FO doesn't think that internal development alone will turn this team into a contender.

I'm hoping that all of these team option contracts were done specifically to try to work their 'magic' (lol) after December 15th.

I think what we saw in the first four games is the vision for better or worse.

Really don't see a lot of moves on the horizon. Cole perhaps.

I like the core but how many championship teams are built without trading for a major piece at some point?
Last 5 championships:
24 Boston - Traded for Kristaps and Holiday
23 Denver - Traded for AG
22 GSW - Traded for Wiggins
21 LAL - Traded for AD
20 TOR- Traded for Kawhi

Internal development is big but ignoring the trade market would be incredibly stupid.

[eyriq]

Nope. Just hoping the FO doesn't think that internal development alone will turn this team into a contender.

I'm hoping that all of these team option contracts were done specifically to try to work their 'magic' (lol) after December 15th.

I think what we saw in the first four games is the vision for better or worse.

Really don't see a lot of moves on the horizon. Cole perhaps.

I like the core but how many championship teams are built without trading for a major piece at some point?
Last 5 championships:
24 Boston - Traded for Kristaps and Holiday
23 Denver - Traded for AG
22 GSW - Traded for Wiggins
21 LAL - Traded for AD
20 TOR- Traded for Kawhi

Internal development is big but ignoring the trade market would be incredibly stupid.

We just aren't in a position to augment the core with a trade unless we trade one of our core players in the deal. Maybe we can trade for a core player in a few years when Suggs' deal has deflated enough as a percentage of the cap? Hopefully AB has developed into a star in his own right by then and he eats up the cap space.

[eyriq]

These types of convos about how to re-tool the roster are just premature, we don't really know exactly what we have on hand right now because so much of our growth is coming from player development. Once we are expected to contend player development won't factor in and it will be very much a put up or shut up environment. Then we can have meaningful conversations about re-tooling if we are coming up short. Right now though the team is succeeding by every measure relative to where we are on the timeline. We are ahead of schedule.

[VFX]

You are basically saying that this team is 100% with Paolo.

It’s not.

This team last season was poor offensively with a healthy roster of players for the most part. Paolo will not score 50 points a night.

The FO gave a bunch of money to guys that either can’t stay healthy or haven’t proven they belong on the court so far this season. That’s a problem.

The issue isn’t Paolo/Franz/Suggs.

The issue is making a real offense work without leaning entirely on one guy.

So do you not believe Paolo was in the process of a "level up" before the injury?

Because if Paolo's really gonna be an efficient 25-28 PPG guy, which doesn't seem totally out of the question based on what we saw in the first five games, then the calculus changes significantly.

If that's what Paolo is, then you can throw last year's stats out of the window because they become immediately irrelevant.

Paolo 29 PPG on .495/.344/.644 as the 1st option.

Franz 20 PPG on .536/.440/.917 as the 2nd banana.

Suggs 17 PPG on .450/425/.929 as the 3rd option.

Is that not exactly what we all wanted to see? Clearly defined pecking order with everyone in their optimal spot for success. That's what we saw the first 5 games.

But when you take Paolo away and tell Franz and Suggs "ok Franz, go be Paolo" and "Ok Jalen, go be Franz" and then we're shocked when Franz is 14/34 FG Suggs is 14/33 FG in the two games?

Again, the problem isn’t them.

No conversation last season or this offseason had anything to do with those guys in relation to how the offense is being run.

It’s the supporting cast. There are zero point guards on this roster. That fact becomes obvious when you lose the ability to spam Paolo ISO’s for entire games. The cope is “yeah they would always be bad without him”. No, it just exposes their lack of actually developing a system. I said this when we were WINNING last season and everyone clapped like seals when KCP was signed instead.

The outcome of these road games without Paolo, a starting point guard, or a sensible offense isnt surprising in the slightest.

Forgoing a solution to the very basic problem of efficiently running an offense isn’t a one-off nitpick bitching situation. It’s something that has been brought up here now for 3 years running and hasn’t been addressed. It also doesn’t help that all of these guys they signed and re-signed look terrible. Like… not even playable or contributing to anything.

Know what that means? More pressure on the 3 guys you listed. 2 without Paolo. Not a great way to develop your core when everyone else looks like a gleague player on most nights or consistently on the injury report.

[OrlChamps2030]

Maxey is starting alongside Lowry/Oubre/Martin/Drummond

Sorry dude two completely different scenarios

Franz (and everyone else) needs to play better. Luckily it’s only up from here

Those are four capable veterans.

Not sure how much difference there is between those four guys and Suggs/KCP/TDS/Moritz all things considered.

KCP makes more than Lowry/Martin/Oubre/Drummond combined

That’s not good

[thelead]

I think what we saw in the first four games is the vision for better or worse.

Really don't see a lot of moves on the horizon. Cole perhaps.

I like the core but how many championship teams are built without trading for a major piece at some point?
Last 5 championships:
24 Boston - Traded for Kristaps and Holiday
23 Denver - Traded for AG
22 GSW - Traded for Wiggins
21 LAL - Traded for AD
20 TOR- Traded for Kawhi

Internal development is big but ignoring the trade market would be incredibly stupid.

We just aren't in a position to augment the core with a trade unless we trade one of our core players in the deal. Maybe we can trade for a core player in a few years when Suggs' deal has deflated enough as a percentage of the cap? Hopefully AB has developed into a star in his own right by then and he eats up the cap space.

I'm not advocating for a reckless trade but we have enough picks to throw at a team with a disgruntled All-Star without having to give up a core piece. Again, I'm not calling for that today but we should be active and looking. We can't do much until December though.

[Rainwater]

Sure they did.

Philadelphia went 31-8 when Embiid played last year and 16-27 without him.

It sucks that this Paolo injury happened right before arguably the toughest road trip of the season, but it is what it is.

I know it has only been two games but Maxy put a better effort in those games without Embiid than Franz has without Paolo.

Hell, look at the effort that Paolo put in while Franz was gone. It’s night and day.

Magic were 3-7 w/o Franz playing and 4-8 when Paolo didn't play last season. Paolo and Franz bring totally different skillsets to the table. Franz is not going to be the 1v1 scorer that Paolo is. Franz is more of a connector that moves the ball, slashes to the basket and plays better defense. Those 2 really complement each and adding in Suggs really makes a nice trio. It seems people here expect Franz to turn into Paolo when Paolo is out. Paolo's absence though really points out the Magic need for a 3rd scoring option.

Franz is the third option in my eyes, the Magic need a second option. Since his inconsistent regular season and post season, I have never been comfortable with him as the second option. His inconsistency throughout the playoff last season is the reason why the magic didn't make it to the second round. And current play without Paolo is not helping him.

Look, I get the idea of maxing out Franz to keep him, but I don't like the idea of giving a connector piece max money especially when they can't help carry an offense when the number one option is not there.

[Rainwater]

Oh no all the bandwagon fans are leaving

Nope. Just hoping the FO doesn't think that internal development alone will turn this team into a contender.

I'm hoping that all of these team option contracts were done specifically to try to work their 'magic' (lol) after December 15th.

They just paid Franz and Suggs and are about to pay Paolo. They definitely do think that internal development alone will turn them into a contender, in so far as a team's three best players contribute more towards building a contender than the rest of the roster combined. AB and Jett are going to get ample opportunity to grow into significant roles as well. We are still a season away from having expectations to go deep into the playoffs. Time is on our side.

Yeah, they really do believe in this internal growth thing. The offseason moves kinda prove it.

[JF5]

He has a real No. 2.

And a real No. 3.

And he's a real No. 1.

What are you even talking about?

Yeah, this young team is getting whipped by contenders without their best player. How is this shocking?

The problem is right in your post, all of our young players. Specifically WHY do we have so many young players? Because so many of our draft picks have been busts. Those players (our picks) were supposed to be our veteran players by now, at a minimum our depth. We've heard this team is young since literally the Dwight trade, because they keep messing up our drafts. We've had a young team for 12 years, that's beyond absurd. If Black and Howard don't work out, that will stretch out another 5 years.

I'm completely in favor of a new front office, it's time.

Lmao, this rebuild ended LAST YEAR. Your best players are all under 25. This is what happens when your best goes down and don't have the experience to combat it.

I understand the frustration of the board. But there is no way around this unless all your core guys/coach have atleast 5-6 of experience to combat being down their best player, and having a reliable secondary system when he's out.

Just take a look at the Warriors. They're down Steph but have the championship pedigree, vets, system and coaching experience to combat that talent drop off.

This team hasn't learned that because they're still significantly young and trying to find themselves individually and as a team.

[thelead]

The biggest bright spot for me is the culture Mose has built. No more goofs laughing during losses. These guys do care about wins and losses.

Watch on YouTube

[Ducklett]

4 games into the season Franz was averaging over 20 PPG on a .536/.440/.917 slash as Paolo's 2nd banana.

Then the guy gets sick and has a couple of meh low minute games and then Paolo gets hurt during the second of those games.

So then in the last two games Franz - coming off the illness against two good playoff teams on the road - has a USG rate well over 30 in the two games and he struggles because he's being stretched far beyond his ideal role?

But we're pissed off because he's not capable of becoming Paolo at the drop of a hat? He's no longer worth his contract?

I don't get it.

Children throwing tantrums.

Make believe is far more child-like. And we're lying to ourselves if we say this roster, outside of PB, looks competent. Wave your pom poms al you'd like, but losing your best player ALWAYS shows the depth you have. What kind of depth do we have? Zero.

Harris, KCP, and Cole are barely even NBA players (I legitimately don't believe Cole even is). One of them is a starter who's playing like a D league bench player.

Or maybe I wanna see more than 2 games. Crazy!

[KillMonger]

About Jett, what did you expect from guy who nobody projected to be lottery pick, with some out of first round projections, who also spent whole rookie year playing hardly professional basketball?

From a moment they drafted him to today, i still can't find one logical reason why that pick wasn't traded on draft night.

He is slowfooted 6'7 PF. He wasn't even that good of a college player.

Really weird pick - one of those picks you knew would likely turn out bad the moment Silver announced it.

Non-basketball reasons had to be at play.. I think Jett agreed to spending the year in the G-League. Similar to this FO taking Okeke because he agreed to wait a year to sign his deal.

Gradey Dick has had 2 30 point games this week. Just saying

That means nothing here

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

[Knightro]

Again, the problem isn’t them.

No conversation last season or this offseason had anything to do with those guys in relation to how the offense is being run.

It’s the supporting cast. There are zero point guards on this roster. That fact becomes obvious when you lose the ability to spam Paolo ISO’s for entire games. The cope is “yeah they would always be bad without him”. No, it just exposes their lack of actually developing a system.

The outcome of these road games without Paolo, a starting point guard, or a sensible offense is surprising in the slightest.

Forgoing a solution to the very basic problem of efficiently running an offense isn’t a one-off nitpick bitching situation. It’s something that has been brought up here now for 3 years running and hasn’t been addressed. It also doesn’t help that all of these guys they signed and re-signed look terrible. Like… not even playable or contributing to anything.

Know what that means? More pressure on the 3 guys you listed. 2 without Paolo. Not a great way to develop your core when everyone else looks like a gleague player on most nights or consistently on the injury report.

For better or worse, they were banking on the offense taking a leap via Paolo, Franz and Suggs all improving.

And through the first week of the season, it seemed to be working exactly the way they wanted it to be working.

Of course now that Paolo (29 PPG on .590 TS%) is out things have looked quite bad in the last two games, but that's not some reflection on the way they built the roster.

It's a heliocentric offense. And ultimately you may not like it or agree with it, but that's how the built the roster.

And any team who loses an efficient 29 PPG on 31% USG is gonna have a hard time.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

The biggest bright spot for me is the culture Mose has built. No more goofs laughing during losses. These guys do care about wins and losses.

Watch on YouTube

Jalen seem to be everyone's emotional support person. <3