2024-2025 Regular Season Game 7: Orlando Magic (3-3) at Dallas Mavericks (3-2)

[KillMonger]

Can't get mad at jett, I feel he's doing what he's supposed to do... Hit another two 3s, still shooting over 40%....KCP still lackluster.... Tristan didn't play as well today but still contributed...? Jalen yikes - 26? Dell did what he could but gafford just little boyed him in the paint , then once again just like last year plantar fascia....

AB was bad, played spooked for some reason and it boggles me because dallas defense is not like that at all.... Moe was horrible and Franz started out good but ended OK.... JI, looks like the weight isn't doing it for him

Not enough practice time so we have no where to go but up when we do get some practice time right?


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[JF5]

Again, the problem isn’t them.

No conversation last season or this offseason had anything to do with those guys in relation to how the offense is being run.

It’s the supporting cast. There are zero point guards on this roster. That fact becomes obvious when you lose the ability to spam Paolo ISO’s for entire games. The cope is “yeah they would always be bad without him”. No, it just exposes their lack of actually developing a system.

The outcome of these road games without Paolo, a starting point guard, or a sensible offense is surprising in the slightest.

Forgoing a solution to the very basic problem of efficiently running an offense isn’t a one-off nitpick bitching situation. It’s something that has been brought up here now for 3 years running and hasn’t been addressed. It also doesn’t help that all of these guys they signed and re-signed look terrible. Like… not even playable or contributing to anything.

Know what that means? More pressure on the 3 guys you listed. 2 without Paolo. Not a great way to develop your core when everyone else looks like a gleague player on most nights or consistently on the injury report.

For better or worse, they were banking on the offense taking a leap via Paolo, Franz and Suggs all improving.

And through the first week of the season, it seemed to be working exactly the way they wanted it to be working.

Of course now that Paolo (29 PPG on .590 TS%) is out things have looked quite bad in the last two games, but that's not some reflection on the way they built the roster.

It's a heliocentric offense. And ultimately you may not like it or agree with it, but that's how the built the roster.

And any team who loses an efficient 29 PPG on 31% USG is gonna have a hard time.

Seriously... it's like Denver losing Jokic, Sixers loing Embiid, or Thunder Losing SGA and expecting the same sort of team when your Superstar player goes down. There have rarely been teams in NBA history where an good/elite team's Superstar went down and not automatically drop down to being mediocre.

Like what sort of conversation are we having on this board right now? We're upset that this team somehow sucks and is struggling to compete without their star player who was providing 29-8-6. The team essentially being built around him and his playstyle. Like how the hell is that shocking to anyone? On top of that they got their asses whooped by contending teams on the road.

Like come on now. There is no logic to this conversation.

[ibraheim718]

Again, the problem isn’t them.

No conversation last season or this offseason had anything to do with those guys in relation to how the offense is being run.

It’s the supporting cast. There are zero point guards on this roster. That fact becomes obvious when you lose the ability to spam Paolo ISO’s for entire games. The cope is “yeah they would always be bad without him”. No, it just exposes their lack of actually developing a system.

The outcome of these road games without Paolo, a starting point guard, or a sensible offense is surprising in the slightest.

Forgoing a solution to the very basic problem of efficiently running an offense isn’t a one-off nitpick bitching situation. It’s something that has been brought up here now for 3 years running and hasn’t been addressed. It also doesn’t help that all of these guys they signed and re-signed look terrible. Like… not even playable or contributing to anything.

Know what that means? More pressure on the 3 guys you listed. 2 without Paolo. Not a great way to develop your core when everyone else looks like a gleague player on most nights or consistently on the injury report.

For better or worse, they were banking on the offense taking a leap via Paolo, Franz and Suggs all improving.

And through the first week of the season, it seemed to be working exactly the way they wanted it to be working.

Of course now that Paolo (29 PPG on .590 TS%) is out things have looked quite bad in the last two games, but that's not some reflection on the way they built the roster.

It's a heliocentric offense. And ultimately you may not like it or agree with it, but that's how the built the roster.

And any team who loses an efficient 29 PPG on 31% USG is gonna have a hard time.

They built a good roster. A lot of great young players.. fans just can't exercise the patience to see it through. I didn't watch tonights game (first game I missed) because I was out but I still feel for the fans and the team. They are going to have a moment soon in one of the next few games where things start clicking. And then maybe they can get in the mindset of staying right around .500 until P5 gets back. My only worry is we don't know anything about the injury.. hopefully it doesn't linger.

[Redwood]

Yeah, this young team is getting whipped by contenders without their best player. How is this shocking?

The problem is right in your post, all of our young players. Specifically WHY do we have so many young players? Because so many of our draft picks have been busts. Those players (our picks) were supposed to be our veteran players by now, at a minimum our depth. We've heard this team is young since literally the Dwight trade, because they keep messing up our drafts. We've had a young team for 12 years, that's beyond absurd. If Black and Howard don't work out, that will stretch out another 5 years.

I'm completely in favor of a new front office, it's time.

Lmao, this rebuild ended LAST YEAR. Your best players are all under 25. This is what happens when your best goes down and don't have the experience to combat it.

I understand the frustration of the board. But there is no way around this unless all your core guys/coach have atleast 5-6 of experience to combat being down their best player, and having a reliable secondary system when he's out.

Just take a look at the Warriors. They're down Steph but have the championship pedigree, vets, system and coaching experience to combat that talent drop off.

This team hasn't learned that because they're still significantly young and trying to find themselves individually and as a team.

To say the rebuild ended is to say we have no more question marks. I strongly disagree that our rebuild has ended, a first round playoff exit is not the goal. You don't necessarily have to win a championship for the rebuild to be over, but you can't look like we do right now down one player and say things are fine.

First round picks over the last decade:

2014 - Aaron Gordon
2015 - Hezonja
2016 - Traded for Ibaka
2017 - Isaac
2018 - Bamba
2019 - Okeke
2020 - Cole
2021 - Suggs, Franz
2022 - PB
2023 - Black, Jett
2024 - TDS

That is abysmal. Again you mention our youth but again I say that's because we gave up on players we drafted relatively recently. You're always going to be a young team if your picks don't work out and you have to keep replacing them with more picks. If Black and Howard don't work out this will be one of the worst 10 year stretches of drafting the NBA has seen. Their FA signings haven't been much better. We're going to need PB to turn into a top 5 player and hope that TDS, Black, and Howard turn into above average NBA players or this rebuild certainly isn't done.

[DiplomaticMagic]

Couldnt watch the full thing.

Wendell is a solid C but hes not reliable. Always hurt. I bet he wouldve sat out if Goga was available. He shouldve sat out regardless. Personally I rather have a C like Gafford or Lively.

The Jett Howard pick is looking like a major bust. I will never understand why we took him so high over who was available. I cant believe I spent all that time rooting for Chicago losses just for them to waste the pick on him. I was confused as soon as the pick was in, but remained optimistic because I believe in Weltman. But I dont see it, hes not a NBA player.

Jay Huff sure would be useful right now, I dont know what Weltman was thinking.

Also Im SHOCKED Cole Anthony isnt in rotation, not that he deserves it, hes the worst player on the team. But I never thought Mose would do it. And the fact that he is still benched with Paolo out is really something. Are we stuck with him? Hes got no trade value I assume.

KCP and Gary Harris need to play better, especially KCP. Its getting ridiculous.

Also whats up with AB? Hes played pretty bad these games without Paolo.

[DiplomaticMagic]

The biggest bright spot for me is the culture Mose has built. No more goofs laughing during losses. These guys do care about wins and losses.

Watch on YouTube

I think hes crying because hes hurt. Anyway Im not the biggest Wendell guy, but that video makes me feel really bad for him. Hope he gets healthy soon

[DiplomaticMagic]

We should give Mac McClung a chance. Cant be worse than what we're putting out there.

I dont even want to watch tomorrows game vs OKC with Moe Wagner as our only center.

[pepe1991]

Last year on East almost every single mid tear team lost it's best or second player for near half of a season.
Non of them looked like this.

Sure they did.

Philadelphia went 31-8 when Embiid played last year and 16-27 without him.

It sucks that this Paolo injury happened right before arguably the toughest road trip of the season, but it is what it is.

And how much money Embiid takes from salary cap compared to Banchero? $50M to $10M ?

Embiid's existence in salary books on mega max deal makes it difficult to fill roster with good players. You said Lowry, Gordon, Drummond are "good veterans" but in reality 3 of them combine salary of Mortiz Wagner for example.

If you go back with Embiid and 76ers, during his cheap(er) years, he still missed lot of games, but 76ers were still competitive (his 3rd season and further) because it was time in rebuild where assets were cheap.
2017-18: 11-8 without him
2018-19: 8-10 without him
2019-20: 11-11 without him
2020-21: 10-11 without him
2021-22: 6-8 without him
2022-23: 11-5 without him



Also i said half of the East and there is proof:
Mitchell- 27 games missed, Mobley 32, Garland 25. Without best player( Mitchell) 12-15.
Butler 22 games missed ,Herro 40 games missed. Without best player 13-9
Haliburton 13 games missed. 7-6 without him
Randle 36 games missed, Brunson 5 games missed. Without Randle 21-15. 1-4 without Brunson
Trae gone for 28 games, they actually had better record without him than with him ( 14-14 without). But they also had lot of other injuries.


Back to Magic

It has only been 2 games, and yes, opponents are very good ones, Cavs and Dallas, but over 8 quarters Magic only looked like team that knows what they are doing during 1 and half quarters. Half of 3rd quarter vs Cavs and first quarter vs Dallas. Everything else was high school level.

85 points that Magic scored tonight is, lowest scoring by a team so far, early in 2024-25 season.

You also said how everything looked great vs Pacers. But really, did it? Pacers on second night to back to backs, on the road, after OT, Paolo in career night, scoring 50 on mostly just isolation basketball, and still it was just Pacers running out of steam in 4th ( scoring 3 points in last 5 min).


We can stick head in a sand and pretend those problems weren't obvious even with Paolo, but that would be foolish.
By data, Magic were healthiest 2023-24 team. Because of depth, health and bench and team defense they won 47 games despite having 9th worst offense ( worst offense to get to playoffs) . In playoffs they once again ran out offense.
In off season Magic still did nothing to improve ball handling or advanced offense other than adding another stand still, low volume shooter. Instead they just re-signed some of most injury prone players nba has to offer (Isaac, Carter) and crossed fingers that over course of one summer their stand still SF will "run offense from bench" and their stand still shooting guard will become point guard, because once upon a time, against future doctors and lawyers he played "Point guard" ( and just ignore he couldn't even run pick&roll against them).

No, i don't expect Magic to beat Cavs, OKC, nor Dallas on the road even with Paolo, but you expect some level of execution,game plan, adjustment, set plays, organization of team that aspired to pass first round of playoffs.
Instead, you get non existing offense, 41 threes taken by roster makeup that can't shoot, and assistant coach that yells "it's not about Xs and Os" after 5 possessions in row where Magic can't even get into preset to set a set play.

Clippers 2021-22, Kawhi Leonard 0 games played, George 31 g.p. Clippers record 42-40. This is what good coaching and solid system can do. Yes, you won't win 50 games without best player(s), yes offense will suck at times, yes, somebody will blow you out of water, but you will also be competitive on more nights than you won't be. Over (just) 2 games of Paolo-less Magic i haven't seen any of it. For roster that carried over 95% of same players from previous year, you would expect better chemistry even with injuried players out.

[Message Boar]

Damn, basically nobody on the team had a good game huh?

[GelbeWand09]

Oh no all the bandwagon fans are leaving

Nope. Just hoping the FO doesn't think that internal development alone will turn this team into a contender.

I'm hoping that all of these team option contracts were done specifically to try to work their 'magic' (lol) after December 15th.

I think what we saw in the first four games is the vision for better or worse.

Really don't see a lot of moves on the horizon. Cole perhaps.

The worst thing about the Paolo injury is, it gives them a excuse for another year of doing nothing. They gonna go into next year doing nothing again (like every year since they arrived with the exception of AG demanding a trade so they were forced to do there job finally) because of 4 games in October were nobody plays defense against them and Paolo having 2 hot games.
We won't have a real PG or more ball handlers next year too because we looked OK in 4 games despite even in those games you saw all the problems this "offense" got.
This iso spamming offense with 2 ball handlers on the complete roster and only team without anything resembling a real PG was going to be exposed on that road trip anyway or against any team playing defense and with intensity like last year already, when they lost almost every game against +. 500 teams. Adding Gary Harris Sr doesn't change that.

[Ducklett]

Nope. Just hoping the FO doesn't think that internal development alone will turn this team into a contender.

I'm hoping that all of these team option contracts were done specifically to try to work their 'magic' (lol) after December 15th.

I think what we saw in the first four games is the vision for better or worse.

Really don't see a lot of moves on the horizon. Cole perhaps.

The worst thing about the Paolo injury is, it gives them a excuse for another year of doing nothing. They gonna go into next year doing nothing again (like every year since they arrived with the exception of AG demanding a trade so they were forced to do there job finally) because of 4 games in October were nobody plays defense against them and Paolo having 2 hot games.
We won't have a real PG or more ball handlers next year too because we looked OK in 4 games despite even in those games you saw all the problems this "offense" got.
This iso spamming offense with 2 ball handlers on the complete roster and only team without anything resembling a real PG was going to be exposed on that road trip anyway or against any team playing defense and with intensity like last year already, when they lost almost every game against +. 500 teams. Adding Gary Harris Sr doesn't change that.

Doing nothing? At this rate we are going to have 2 lotto picks.

[GelbeWand09]

And just to be clear. Despite my negative posts i'm still very happy with what we have in general. We have a really good core, we just need to find the right pieces around them. We have to reshuffle the deck till we find the right combination. Like Boston did with the two J's. That's the luxery we have compared to the Vuc years.

My problem is that we have the most lazy and risk averse FO in basketball.
To find the right pieces you have to make moves in general. You have to be able to identify your problems. This FO is ignoring all that since they came here and doing nothing except drafting a guy in the first, sell the 2nd round pick, sign one over the hill/or overrated veteran and than resign everyone else every year.
I'm even a very patient fan and I had no problem tanking every year from Dwight til last season but this FO just gives me no confidence that they ever gonna address weaknesses. I would be all over this team and core if we had a FO that tries to actively address weaknesses, if they work or not doesn't even matter that much because you have that core already and got the luxery to shuffle around them til you are right. But our FO isn't even trying. That's the frustrating thing.

[Jiwol]

And just to be clear. Despite my negatives posts i'm still very happy with what we have in general. We have a really good core, we just need to find the right pieces around them. We have to reshuffle the deck till we find the right combination. Like Boston did with the two J's. That's the luxery we have compared to the Vuc years.

My problem is that we have the most lazy and risk averse FO in basketball.
To find the right pieces you have to make moves in general. You have to be able to identify your problems. This FO is ignoring all that since they came here and doing nothing except drafting a guy in the first, sell the 2nd round pick, sign one over the hill/or overrated veteran and than resign everyone else every year.
I'm even a very patient fan and I had no problem tanking every year from Dwight til last season but this FO just gives me no confidence that they ever gonna address weaknesses. I would be all over this team and core if we had a FO that tries to actively address weaknesses, if they work or not doesn't even matter that much because you have that core already and got the luxery to shuffle around them til you are right. But our FO isn't even trying. That's the frustrating thing.

Those are exactly my sentiments. We have a lot of dope pieces but the structure is simply not there. Both roster construction and coaching leave so much to desire and on top of that very little hope of change knowing the FO's lack of proactivity. It's really tough to swallow as I'm sure the smarter brass would make this team competing for a title (not saying winning it by any means yet) even this year. Just give me a functional PG and coaching stuff that can run offense.

[p0peye]

Didn't watch the game, boxscore sucks. Seems like adding a 3&D player didn't help our offense, but it is still early in the season to make proper judgement.

[basketballRob]

Paolo, Carter, and Goga being out is tough. At least it's in games we'd probably lose if we were healthy.

Isaac's regression since he gained the weight is alarming.

When we were healthy in the first couple of games, I questioned all the guards on the roster. Now that's all we have.

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[Skybox]

Nope. Just hoping the FO doesn't think that internal development alone will turn this team into a contender.

I'm hoping that all of these team option contracts were done specifically to try to work their 'magic' (lol) after December 15th.

I think what we saw in the first four games is the vision for better or worse.

Really don't see a lot of moves on the horizon. Cole perhaps.

The worst thing about the Paolo injury is, it gives them a excuse for another year of doing nothing. They gonna go into next year doing nothing again (like every year since they arrived with the exception of AG demanding a trade so they were forced to do there job finally) because of 4 games in October were nobody plays defense against them and Paolo having 2 hot games.
We won't have a real PG or more ball handlers next year too because we looked OK in 4 games despite even in those games you saw all the problems this "offense" got.
This iso spamming offense with 2 ball handlers on the complete roster and only team without anything resembling a real PG was going to be exposed on that road trip anyway or against any team playing defense and with intensity like last year already, when they lost almost every game against +. 500 teams. Adding Gary Harris Sr doesn't change that.

SHOULD be looked at as an excuse to do SOMETHING. They could easily rework what has been an unworkable roster & offense while Paolo is out because they’re FORCED to respond to his unfortunate injury. What’s ok about not having any sense of urgency about a lost season? “Oh well, our best player got hurt…better luck next year”…just not an approach the best orgs would adopt (or their fans-not just the casuals either). This situation is a free pass to do what they should’ve been doing anyway to correct a talented but poorly constructed roster and/or a lack of a workable offensive system.

Who has a year/season to waste? This is a sports team, not international economics or diplomacy. Take a chance - make a better, more sensible product. Do it with Paolo’s return in mind. EDIT: it’s also not a “family” or a charity. Sometimes leaders have to make tough decisions early, not after years of evidence…anyone can recognize an issue like Fultz after 4 years and $75 million - an NBA exec should see it before most of this board.

Point of the rant is that we have much less at risk with Paolo out. We can chance a step backward - because that’s going to happen anyway. Risk a little disruption now and be better for it later.

[Optimus_Steel]

The point now is survival. No more serious injuries and get a semblance of something going and stay as close as they can to .500 so they can make 2nd half of the season push. It’s probably going to be ugly for a while.

[yoyojw17]

Again, the problem isn’t them.

No conversation last season or this offseason had anything to do with those guys in relation to how the offense is being run.

It’s the supporting cast. There are zero point guards on this roster. That fact becomes obvious when you lose the ability to spam Paolo ISO’s for entire games. The cope is “yeah they would always be bad without him”. No, it just exposes their lack of actually developing a system.

The outcome of these road games without Paolo, a starting point guard, or a sensible offense is surprising in the slightest.

Forgoing a solution to the very basic problem of efficiently running an offense isn’t a one-off nitpick bitching situation. It’s something that has been brought up here now for 3 years running and hasn’t been addressed. It also doesn’t help that all of these guys they signed and re-signed look terrible. Like… not even playable or contributing to anything.

Know what that means? More pressure on the 3 guys you listed. 2 without Paolo. Not a great way to develop your core when everyone else looks like a gleague player on most nights or consistently on the injury report.

For better or worse, they were banking on the offense taking a leap via Paolo, Franz and Suggs all improving.

And through the first week of the season, it seemed to be working exactly the way they wanted it to be working.

Of course now that Paolo (29 PPG on .590 TS%) is out things have looked quite bad in the last two games, but that's not some reflection on the way they built the roster.

It's a heliocentric offense. And ultimately you may not like it or agree with it, but that's how the built the roster.

And any team who loses an efficient 29 PPG on 31% USG is gonna have a hard time.

Seriously... it's like Denver losing Jokic, Sixers loing Embiid, or Thunder Losing SGA and expecting the same sort of team when your Superstar player goes down. There have rarely been teams in NBA history where an good/elite team's Superstar went down and not automatically drop down to being mediocre.

Like what sort of conversation are we having on this board right now? We're upset that this team somehow sucks and is struggling to compete without their star player who was providing 29-8-6. The team essentially being built around him and his playstyle. Like how the hell is that shocking to anyone? On top of that they got their asses whooped by contending teams on the road.

Like come on now. There is no logic to this conversation.

Exactly!

Oh.... And a team that we would trade half of our team to get 2 of their players (each), one that people begged for in the off-season, and a sophomore center that not as many people wanted (I wanted him lol) but now their tone changes cuz surprise.... He's really good and would be an asset to us. If you were a Dallas fan.... Would you expect to lose to an injured magic team that currently can't tell the difference between their head and their a$$.

And next man up doesn't mean that all of a sudden'whoever you put in is going to immediately produce at a level we expect them. They are on the road ... Traveling .... There's only so much you can just piece together in a few days. Before the cavs game...Dell was a late scratch.... And then gets injured again in this one.

I'll be amazed and super happy if we get a win on this road trip. But hopefully we see some growth with some of our players during these times. and we need goga back ASAP to balance back out these rotations in the meantime.

[Message Boar]

The biggest bright spot for me is the culture Mose has built. No more goofs laughing during losses. These guys do care about wins and losses.

Watch on YouTube

I think hes crying because hes hurt. Anyway Im not the biggest Wendell guy, but that video makes me feel really bad for him. Hope he gets healthy soon

I'm sad for Wendell that he gets hurt so often but that actual basketball play is pretty crazy.

[VFX]

Again, the problem isn’t them.

No conversation last season or this offseason had anything to do with those guys in relation to how the offense is being run.

It’s the supporting cast. There are zero point guards on this roster. That fact becomes obvious when you lose the ability to spam Paolo ISO’s for entire games. The cope is “yeah they would always be bad without him”. No, it just exposes their lack of actually developing a system.

The outcome of these road games without Paolo, a starting point guard, or a sensible offense is surprising in the slightest.

Forgoing a solution to the very basic problem of efficiently running an offense isn’t a one-off nitpick bitching situation. It’s something that has been brought up here now for 3 years running and hasn’t been addressed. It also doesn’t help that all of these guys they signed and re-signed look terrible. Like… not even playable or contributing to anything.

Know what that means? More pressure on the 3 guys you listed. 2 without Paolo. Not a great way to develop your core when everyone else looks like a gleague player on most nights or consistently on the injury report.

For better or worse, they were banking on the offense taking a leap via Paolo, Franz and Suggs all improving.

And through the first week of the season, it seemed to be working exactly the way they wanted it to be working.

Of course now that Paolo (29 PPG on .590 TS%) is out things have looked quite bad in the last two games, but that's not some reflection on the way they built the roster.

It's a heliocentric offense. And ultimately you may not like it or agree with it, but that's how the built the roster.

And any team who loses an efficient 29 PPG on 31% USG is gonna have a hard time.

Seriously... it's like Denver losing Jokic, Sixers loing Embiid, or Thunder Losing SGA and expecting the same sort of team when your Superstar player goes down. There have rarely been teams in NBA history where an good/elite team's Superstar went down and not automatically drop down to being mediocre.

Like what sort of conversation are we having on this board right now? We're upset that this team somehow sucks and is struggling to compete without their star player who was providing 29-8-6. The team essentially being built around him and his playstyle. Like how the hell is that shocking to anyone? On top of that they got their asses whooped by contending teams on the road.

Like come on now. There is no logic to this conversation.

You guys aren’t getting this.

I don’t expect Orlando to win on the road against playoff teams without Paolo. That’s not the problem here.

The problem is how they are losing. Frankly, it was how they were winning last season too. Everything relies on defense and Paolo’s ability to score. Yeah, that’s not a good system offensively. It is predictable bad offense most nights for the last two-three seasons even in wins.

Like…do you guys even watch this team offensively on most nights even when everything is clicking? It still isn’t pretty. It’s a bunch of guys standing around watching Paolo because there is zero ball movement. I think the only time it actually looked good was the third quarter in Miami. That’s it.

Getting nothing from every dude they re-signed or signed recently doesn’t help. They have had opportunities to change personnel and haven’t. That has nothing to do with Orlando missing Paolo Banchero.