2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation

[Saberestar]

I would take JV over Nurkic 10 out of 10 times. James Jones is very familiar trading with the Wizards, so I could see a deal getting done there.

Steven Adams would be another guy I'd be interested in trading Nurkic for. Suns don't need a playmaking center, they just need someone who can play defense, rebound, hustle, and know their assignment. Adams fits that bill, the issue is trading with the Rockets where they may want additional assets, and I'm unsure if a deal could get done. Though, it could be possible, if for instance Adams mentions he wants to be starting so he won't re-sign with the Rockets this summer.

I think I'd prefer Steven Adams over JV to be honest.

We don't know how healthy Steven Adams is now, he didn't play for a full year with a huge injury and he isn’t playing for the Rockets. He probably is a minimum guy for the rest of his career.

And regarding Valanciunas...he is even worse defensively. A couple of years older than Nurk and doesn't have his passing skills. Yeah, I know that passing can be seen as a negative at the moment but it's not gonna be like that all season long.

Valanciunas regressed badly and his numbers last year were tough. He is a backup now...not starter material. You are probably thinking about the Valanciunas from some years ago.

[dremill24]

So Nurkic pros and cons

Pros -
Defensive rebounder
Screen setter
Spreads floor
Decent FT%

Cons -
Finishing
Slow
Can't jump
Turnovers

Just might be something we have to live with

Does he though?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Actually, I think Nurk has one more year after this one. Another one I thought of given since we are playing the Sixers tonight, though it may not make sense for them...

I kind of thought Drummond was old and done, but I'm surprised he is only 1 year older than Nurkic. The Sixers are a team that might like Nurkic, but I don't know if Drummond is better or not. Or if they could take back the extra salary. But I guess maybe they could send back matching salary, but most of their other decent sized salaries are pretty good guys they use, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them either.

I don't see the point of trading for Val. We don't need a post up big. If we're going to post somebody up we can post up with DBook or Durant against their matchups. We need an athletic rim protector primarily, and ideally one who can shoot enough to have to be guarded outside of the paint.

Even a BIyombo type would be better than Val imo in terms of fit with this team. A big part of why Nurk doesn't work is that for his passing to be valuable he has to have the ball, and he's always the worst playmaker of all 5 players on the court at the other positions. A playmaking big only has value to the extent they can playmake better than the other player normally in that role. It is also part of why Simmons and Draymond are overrated in that regard. It's a nice to have quality for a big but not a must. We need the must have qualities (athleticism and rim protection).

I'm good with Drummond on that front, but would prefer a guy who can shoot a little bit, but even then give me a Drummond type over Val.

We don't need a post up big nor do we need a playmaking big and that's not what he would be used for. Just like we don't use Nurk as a post up big nor do we really need his playmaking either. We'd be using him to set solid screens, we'd use him to finish at/around the rim (Val is 69% 0-3ft from the rim vs 61% for Nurk, also overall far more efficient), we'd be using him to pick up the rebounding load (Val's consistently been the better rebounder, esp on ORB) and maybe as important, he's been far healthier than Nurk.

Another thing to note is that Val has been a value add in the postseason whereas Nurk hasn't been. Nurk has always been inefficient for a C (career 54.7 TS%) whereas Val has been about average (61.6%), those percentages drop in the post season for Val but he's still at 59.2% whereas Nurk is still at the 54.6%. JV is the all NBA leader in DRB% and TRB% in the playoffs (an increase from the regular season) whereas Nurk's rebounding % drops.

Val isn't the ideal C I want to replace Nurk, make no mistake about it, but he's more effective at what we need our C to do, he's steps up in the playoffs and he's been healthier. Also unlike Drummond or Nurk, Val is an almost 80% FT shooter

For as big as Drummond is, he does only one thing well, rebound and he's not even as good as Val at that in the playoffs. He's also terrible from an efficiency standpoint (even worse than Nurk), shot 43% from the FT line in the playoffs,

Obviously I agree with you that Val>Nurk but there are a couple more things I count in Val's favor you didn't mention. Val is a career 35% 3FG shooter, whereas Nurkic is 28%. Neither of them are consistent year-to-year, but I have a lot more confidence in Val hitting the wide open 3 than Nurk.

Second is the playmaking - some have said we would miss Nurk's playmaking, but what got me going on this in the first place was Nurk's abysmal A/TO this season. I'm not saying JV's a playmaker or anything, but I don't think he'd make the sorts of risky decisions Nurk probably feels he has to make since everyone knows Nurk can't put the ball in the **** basket.

Same rebounding, more interior buckets, more perimeter buckets, fewer turnovers and probably more games played at the cost of maybe fewer assists and slightly fewer blocked shots. That's an easy yes for me.

[Qwigglez]

We don't know how healthy Steven Adams is now, he didn't play for a full year with a huge injury and he isn’t playing for the Rockets. He probably is a minimum guy for the rest of his career.

And regarding Valanciunas...he is even worse defensively. A couple of years older than Nurk and doesn't have his passing skills. Yeah, I know that passing can be seen as a negative at the moment but it's not gonna be like that all season long.

Valanciunas regressed badly and his numbers last year were tough. He is a backup now...not starter material. You are probably thinking about the Valanciunas from some years ago.

Do you mean he just isn't getting playing time for the Rockets? He played three games so far this year for the Rockets, all in limited minutes. I don't think he'll get the minimum as he is still a big body, and a high IQ player.

JV has barely missed any games since the 2020-21 season, he's been a very durable player, and he knows his limitations better than Nurkic does since Nurkic thinks he has the passing ability of Magic Johnson. JV's numbers dipped for sure because he's playing limited minutes, he'd probably play around 20-24 minutes with the Suns too, and the Suns would utilize a more up-tempo lineup.

Nurkic is averaging 3.7 turnovers per game. That is insane considering he is averaging only 23.1 minutes per game. I would prefer JV over Nurkic all day.

[bwgood77]

Is it a weak league at the moment?

Superstars are mostly 30+ and there aren't too many new ones carrying teams

Boston, OKC seem way ahead then there's maybe a bunch of 6 or 7.

Yeah, I was thinking of this too. Players have had way longer primes than usual, I definitely didn't think CP3, Harden, Kawhi, Curry, and many other players would still be so productive/efficient. I think a lot of newer players are being developed as a certain archetype like 3&D wing, and are potentially missing out becoming all-star like players. Maybe...

But anyway, I agree that Boston and OKC seem to be making the correct moves, I'd say San Antonio is doing a good job too so far. I'd even say Pelicans wouldn't be that bad if they could just get over the injury bug.

Aside from Boston and OKC, Cleveland is killing it. Crushed the Lakers and the lesser teams they've played. Won at NY, beat Orlando fairly easily, just took 2 from the Bucks. Undefeated.

I am most surprised that the Bucks have such a bad record. I don't think they are that bad, but their schedule has been tough, mostly on the road, playing Boston on the raod, Cleveland twice, once on the road, Memphis on the road, etc.

[Qwigglez]

Is it a weak league at the moment?

Superstars are mostly 30+ and there aren't too many new ones carrying teams

Boston, OKC seem way ahead then there's maybe a bunch of 6 or 7.

Yeah, I was thinking of this too. Players have had way longer primes than usual, I definitely didn't think CP3, Harden, Kawhi, Curry, and many other players would still be so productive/efficient. I think a lot of newer players are being developed as a certain archetype like 3&D wing, and are potentially missing out becoming all-star like players. Maybe...

But anyway, I agree that Boston and OKC seem to be making the correct moves, I'd say San Antonio is doing a good job too so far. I'd even say Pelicans wouldn't be that bad if they could just get over the injury bug.

Aside from Boston and OKC, Cleveland is killing it. Crushed the Lakers and the lesser teams they've played. Won at NY, beat Orlando fairly easily, just took 2 from the Bucks. Undefeated.

I am most surprised that the Bucks have such a bad record. I don't think they are that bad, but their schedule has been tough, mostly on the road, playing Boston on the raod, Cleveland twice, once on the road, Memphis on the road, etc.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Bucks made some crazy trades. I know that Lillard spent a lot of time in Portland this summer, he was seen at his typical Costco when he used to play in Portland. I don't think he has fully embraced the trade to Milwaukee.

[lilfishi22]

I don't see the point of trading for Val. We don't need a post up big. If we're going to post somebody up we can post up with DBook or Durant against their matchups. We need an athletic rim protector primarily, and ideally one who can shoot enough to have to be guarded outside of the paint.

Even a BIyombo type would be better than Val imo in terms of fit with this team. A big part of why Nurk doesn't work is that for his passing to be valuable he has to have the ball, and he's always the worst playmaker of all 5 players on the court at the other positions. A playmaking big only has value to the extent they can playmake better than the other player normally in that role. It is also part of why Simmons and Draymond are overrated in that regard. It's a nice to have quality for a big but not a must. We need the must have qualities (athleticism and rim protection).

I'm good with Drummond on that front, but would prefer a guy who can shoot a little bit, but even then give me a Drummond type over Val.

We don't need a post up big nor do we need a playmaking big and that's not what he would be used for. Just like we don't use Nurk as a post up big nor do we really need his playmaking either. We'd be using him to set solid screens, we'd use him to finish at/around the rim (Val is 69% 0-3ft from the rim vs 61% for Nurk, also overall far more efficient), we'd be using him to pick up the rebounding load (Val's consistently been the better rebounder, esp on ORB) and maybe as important, he's been far healthier than Nurk.

Another thing to note is that Val has been a value add in the postseason whereas Nurk hasn't been. Nurk has always been inefficient for a C (career 54.7 TS%) whereas Val has been about average (61.6%), those percentages drop in the post season for Val but he's still at 59.2% whereas Nurk is still at the 54.6%. JV is the all NBA leader in DRB% and TRB% in the playoffs (an increase from the regular season) whereas Nurk's rebounding % drops.

Val isn't the ideal C I want to replace Nurk, make no mistake about it, but he's more effective at what we need our C to do, he's steps up in the playoffs and he's been healthier. Also unlike Drummond or Nurk, Val is an almost 80% FT shooter

For as big as Drummond is, he does only one thing well, rebound and he's not even as good as Val at that in the playoffs. He's also terrible from an efficiency standpoint (even worse than Nurk), shot 43% from the FT line in the playoffs,

We post up Nurk plenty. And we simply have no use for any big that doesn't defend the rim at a high level. That eliminates Nurk. He doesn't move the needle at all. No point in the trade whatsoever. Jonas's best attribute is his post game, and every time he shoots it is a negative because it means our hall of famers are not shooting. It's a bad idea.

And we shouldn't have post up as some significant portion of our shot diet but if we continue to run a handful of post ups from the C position, at least Val is far better at it

Post up PPP (Val vs Nurk):
2020: 0.97 vs 0.97
2021: 1.03 vs 0.74
2022: 0.98 vs 0.85
2023: 0.98 vs 0.89
2024: 1.07 vs 0.89

Post up FG% (Val vs Nurk):
2020: 52.4% vs 48.3%
2021: 57.8% vs 41.9%
2022: 53.5% vs 45.7%
2023: 54.3% vs 48.9%
2024: 56.5% vs 48.0%

Inevitable, there will be possessions in a game where it ends up with the ball in the post with only enough time for the big the make a move and Val is just far better at doing something productive with it.

[lilfishi22]

Yeah, I was thinking of this too. Players have had way longer primes than usual, I definitely didn't think CP3, Harden, Kawhi, Curry, and many other players would still be so productive/efficient. I think a lot of newer players are being developed as a certain archetype like 3&D wing, and are potentially missing out becoming all-star like players. Maybe...

But anyway, I agree that Boston and OKC seem to be making the correct moves, I'd say San Antonio is doing a good job too so far. I'd even say Pelicans wouldn't be that bad if they could just get over the injury bug.

Aside from Boston and OKC, Cleveland is killing it. Crushed the Lakers and the lesser teams they've played. Won at NY, beat Orlando fairly easily, just took 2 from the Bucks. Undefeated.

I am most surprised that the Bucks have such a bad record. I don't think they are that bad, but their schedule has been tough, mostly on the road, playing Boston on the raod, Cleveland twice, once on the road, Memphis on the road, etc.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Bucks made some crazy trades. I know that Lillard spent a lot of time in Portland this summer, he was seen at his typical Costco when he used to play in Portland. I don't think he has fully embraced the trade to Milwaukee.

I'm not. Mostly because I think Doc is probably the most overrated coach in NBA history. Dude has had some seriously good rosters to work with and has basically underachieved in the playoffs with every roster except for when he won it with an all-time great Boston team. Now he's working with a roster that isn't what it once was which would require him to get more out of the team than most coaches can and he's never been that guy. Between the injury/age/regression of Middleton and Brook and the Jrue/Dame swap, they also got massively worse defensively (22nd) and while Dame is looking far better than he did compared to his first year in Mil, Doc hasn't been able to build a coherent offensive system to maximise that roster.

Now are they as bad record wise as they should be? No, I think they should be a .500 team with the high end talent they still have but let's not forget, Doc went 17-19 with basically this roster last season so even with a full camp, I wasn't expecting for sure playoff team under him.

I don't really know what kind of trades they have available to them. They are a 2nd apron team so they are pretty restricted in what they can do and they are similar to us with their available draft picks as well. They gave up control of 3 future 1st (2 are swaps) in that trade.

[AtheJ415]

We don't need a post up big nor do we need a playmaking big and that's not what he would be used for. Just like we don't use Nurk as a post up big nor do we really need his playmaking either. We'd be using him to set solid screens, we'd use him to finish at/around the rim (Val is 69% 0-3ft from the rim vs 61% for Nurk, also overall far more efficient), we'd be using him to pick up the rebounding load (Val's consistently been the better rebounder, esp on ORB) and maybe as important, he's been far healthier than Nurk.

Another thing to note is that Val has been a value add in the postseason whereas Nurk hasn't been. Nurk has always been inefficient for a C (career 54.7 TS%) whereas Val has been about average (61.6%), those percentages drop in the post season for Val but he's still at 59.2% whereas Nurk is still at the 54.6%. JV is the all NBA leader in DRB% and TRB% in the playoffs (an increase from the regular season) whereas Nurk's rebounding % drops.

Val isn't the ideal C I want to replace Nurk, make no mistake about it, but he's more effective at what we need our C to do, he's steps up in the playoffs and he's been healthier. Also unlike Drummond or Nurk, Val is an almost 80% FT shooter

For as big as Drummond is, he does only one thing well, rebound and he's not even as good as Val at that in the playoffs. He's also terrible from an efficiency standpoint (even worse than Nurk), shot 43% from the FT line in the playoffs,

We post up Nurk plenty. And we simply have no use for any big that doesn't defend the rim at a high level. That eliminates Nurk. He doesn't move the needle at all. No point in the trade whatsoever. Jonas's best attribute is his post game, and every time he shoots it is a negative because it means our hall of famers are not shooting. It's a bad idea.

And we shouldn't have post up as some significant portion of our shot diet but if we continue to run a handful of post ups from the C position, at least Val is far better at it

Post up PPP (Val vs Nurk):
2020: 0.97 vs 0.97
2021: 1.03 vs 0.74
2022: 0.98 vs 0.85
2023: 0.98 vs 0.89
2024: 1.07 vs 0.89

Post up FG% (Val vs Nurk):
2020: 52.4% vs 48.3%
2021: 57.8% vs 41.9%
2022: 53.5% vs 45.7%
2023: 54.3% vs 48.9%
2024: 56.5% vs 48.0%

Inevitable, there will be possessions in a game where it ends up with the ball in the post with only enough time for the big the make a move and Val is just far better at doing something productive with it.

We shouldn't do it at all. And if we are going to do it, KD or Book are far better options. We shouldn't trade for a downgrade. We can get somebody who can provide something that our other starters can't -- rim protection. We should prioritze that at C

[sunsbum]

Yeah, I was thinking of this too. Players have had way longer primes than usual, I definitely didn't think CP3, Harden, Kawhi, Curry, and many other players would still be so productive/efficient. I think a lot of newer players are being developed as a certain archetype like 3&D wing, and are potentially missing out becoming all-star like players. Maybe...

But anyway, I agree that Boston and OKC seem to be making the correct moves, I'd say San Antonio is doing a good job too so far. I'd even say Pelicans wouldn't be that bad if they could just get over the injury bug.

Aside from Boston and OKC, Cleveland is killing it. Crushed the Lakers and the lesser teams they've played. Won at NY, beat Orlando fairly easily, just took 2 from the Bucks. Undefeated.

I am most surprised that the Bucks have such a bad record. I don't think they are that bad, but their schedule has been tough, mostly on the road, playing Boston on the raod, Cleveland twice, once on the road, Memphis on the road, etc.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Bucks made some crazy trades. I know that Lillard spent a lot of time in Portland this summer, he was seen at his typical Costco when he used to play in Portland. I don't think he has fully embraced the trade to Milwaukee.

His home is Portland, he loves it here. I wouldn't read into it too much.

[flagstaff]

We post up Nurk plenty. And we simply have no use for any big that doesn't defend the rim at a high level. That eliminates Nurk. He doesn't move the needle at all. No point in the trade whatsoever. Jonas's best attribute is his post game, and every time he shoots it is a negative because it means our hall of famers are not shooting. It's a bad idea.

And we shouldn't have post up as some significant portion of our shot diet but if we continue to run a handful of post ups from the C position, at least Val is far better at it

Post up PPP (Val vs Nurk):
2020: 0.97 vs 0.97
2021: 1.03 vs 0.74
2022: 0.98 vs 0.85
2023: 0.98 vs 0.89
2024: 1.07 vs 0.89

Post up FG% (Val vs Nurk):
2020: 52.4% vs 48.3%
2021: 57.8% vs 41.9%
2022: 53.5% vs 45.7%
2023: 54.3% vs 48.9%
2024: 56.5% vs 48.0%

Inevitable, there will be possessions in a game where it ends up with the ball in the post with only enough time for the big the make a move and Val is just far better at doing something productive with it.

We shouldn't do it at all. And if we are going to do it, KD or Book are far better options. We shouldn't trade for a downgrade. We can get somebody who can provide something that our other starters can't -- rim protection. We should prioritze that at C[/quote
We shouldn't trade Nurk just yet. I don't see anything yet that makes us better. let's wait and see what happens later. Look at what's happening in Milwaukee. There will be other teams looking to make a deal later. For one reason or another. Nurk works situationally. Less so in the playoffs, but there are worse options....

[bwgood77]

It's amazing that we go from the most clutch team for a few years, to the worst 4th quarter team, to the most clutch team again. While it would be nice to have some blowouts, it's great that we know we can close out close games.

I am curious how we will play against the good teams like Boston, Cleveland, OKC and GS, who is playing much better than I would have expected before the season.

I would also like to see a blowout. I felt like blowout victories were unnervingly rare in our Chris Paul years. It seemed they were rather common during our SSOL years.

Great teams get blowouts more than occasionally. It takes a great team to win a championship. Boston, OKC, GSW and Cavs have blown teams out, but all of ours have been squeakers - which is why I can't place us in that uppermost tier.

I think the Warriors will cool off a bit. They have been extremely hot from 3 and it's not sustainable. Over 39% as a team, but Hield is shooting over 50% on really high volume, Moody over 48% and Wiggins over 40%. Draymond Green even at 43.5%,

Those are all significantly higher than their career averages (Hield 40%, Moody 37%, Wiggins 35%, and Green 32%).

I definitely don't think we are on the Thunder tier. For Boston, probably not, but without Porzingis, it's closer, and then not sure about Cleveland. GS, we will see.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Awesome game from Nurk! I was laughing when he kept hitting 3s...every time it was like 3 more feet back. His best game easily. If he can hit 3s like that, it's huge, and if he keeps rebounding the way he has the last few games, his lack of very good interior defense and some of the turnovers I can handle.

KD is playing awesome too. He really clutched up.

It's amazing that we go from the most clutch team for a few years, to the worst 4th quarter team, to the most clutch team again. While it would be nice to have some blowouts, it's great that we know we can close out close games.

I am curious how we will play against the good teams like Boston, Cleveland, OKC and GS, who is playing much better than I would have expected before the season.

I would also like to see a blowout. I felt like blowout victories were unnervingly rare in our Chris Paul years. It seemed they were rather common during our SSOL years.

Great teams get blowouts more than occasionally. It takes a great team to win a championship. Boston, OKC, GSW and Cavs have blown teams out, but all of ours have been squeakers - which is why I can't place us in that uppermost tier.

I think the Warriors will cool off a bit. They have been extremely hot from 3 and it's not sustainable. Over 39% as a team, but Hield is shooting over 50% on really high volume, Moody over 48% and Wiggins over 40%. Draymond Green even at 43.5%,

Those are all significantly higher than their career averages (Hield 40%, Moody 37%, Wiggins 35%, and Green 32%).

I definitely don't think we are on the Thunder tier. For Boston, probably not, but without Porzingis, it's closer, and then not sure about Cleveland. GS, we will see.

I called GSW being better than expected - I felt Buddy Hield's been underrated for years, and that he would flourish in that system, certainly more than Klay. GSW's system increases everyone's 3FG%. I won't be shocked if Buddy ends the year with a top-5 3FG% and runs away with 6MOY.

I totally missed on Cleveland in my EC prediction - maily because I forgot about Caris LeVert - who, if he continues at this pace, would have to be the runner-up for 6MOY... but there's no way, right? Currently averaging 13 PPG in 23 MPG on 60% FG and 52% 3FG. Talk about not sustainable!

[ChuckS]

So Nurkic pros and cons

Pros -
Defensive rebounder
Screen setter
Spreads floor
Decent FT%

Cons -
Finishing
Slow
Can't jump
Turnovers

Just might be something we have to live with

Just a few nit-picky comments, not based on your post but on my belief that some were using ridiculously small sample sizes in recent Nurkic complaints.

You mentioned defensive rebounding as good. There have been some complaints about his offensive rebounding, which I thought unusual. I don't think I've ever heard a big blasted for that. Usually the team is blamed for giving up offensive boards on the other end of the court. After a couple of games he was 20th in rebounding and 96th in offensive rebounding. Since then of course it's been better, and last year he was 7th and 9th in the league. So he is obviously just an exceptionally good rebounder.

His turnovers are still high for his minutes. But Jokic and James have averaged about that number, although admittedly not bad for how much they handle the ball and create offense. On the other hand, for his eleven years Nurkic has averaged only 2.2. So it seems likely that "this too shall pass".

Another of the cons was finishing, At the time he was averaging 37.5%, but it is already up to about 44%. Since he has averaged 50% for his career, and 51% last year, I'm confident it will at least rise to that level. Admittedly that is great for a perimeter shooter, but mediocre for a drop center. But with Durant, Bol, and the shooting proficiency of our guards, I can live with any role player being at or near 50%.

I realize Jusuf is not a top tier center. I think he's rated about 20th. But considering what he is paid, what I consider a pretty good fit on this team, and what his team mates seem to believe, I think he's somewhat too harshly evaluated.

[bwgood77]

I would also like to see a blowout. I felt like blowout victories were unnervingly rare in our Chris Paul years. It seemed they were rather common during our SSOL years.

Great teams get blowouts more than occasionally. It takes a great team to win a championship. Boston, OKC, GSW and Cavs have blown teams out, but all of ours have been squeakers - which is why I can't place us in that uppermost tier.

I think the Warriors will cool off a bit. They have been extremely hot from 3 and it's not sustainable. Over 39% as a team, but Hield is shooting over 50% on really high volume, Moody over 48% and Wiggins over 40%. Draymond Green even at 43.5%,

Those are all significantly higher than their career averages (Hield 40%, Moody 37%, Wiggins 35%, and Green 32%).

I definitely don't think we are on the Thunder tier. For Boston, probably not, but without Porzingis, it's closer, and then not sure about Cleveland. GS, we will see.

I called GSW being better than expected - I felt Buddy Hield's been underrated for years, and that he would flourish in that system, certainly more than Klay. GSW's system increases everyone's 3FG%. I won't be shocked if Buddy ends the year with a top-5 3FG% and runs away with 6MOY.

I totally missed on Cleveland in my EC prediction - maily because I forgot about Caris LeVert - who, if he continues at this pace, would have to be the runner-up for 6MOY... but there's no way, right? Currently averaging 13 PPG in 23 MPG on 60% FG and 52% 3FG. Talk about not sustainable!

Cleveland is pretty stacked. Their guards are great, Allen is solid, Mobley keeps getting better. LeVert I had read played really really well when he started last year, but not as well off the bench. I've always liked him. He will probably cool off from 3, but he's still a solid all around player. It's not on that high of volume either.

I agree that Hield playing with Curry, and all those others shooting much higher than usual, will finish among league leaders from 3. He's always been a great 3pt shooter. I think he will end up above 40% for sure, but probably not above 45%. I definitely expect the other 3 to drop off a bit. And I won't be surprised if Draymond and Curry miss games. Though you can say the same for us, probably moreso, but I think we have much more depth, at least 1-3. It would hurt us most if KD is out because we are thinnest at the 4 spot....though maybe Oso could step up and Dunn could probably play some 4 with his length, especially since he mostly spots up from 3 and has already guarded plenty of 4s. But Oso hasn't attempted a 3 yet so I don't have a lot of faith he can hit them (though wouldn't be bad if Nurkic can stretch it and they play together).

I remember you picking GS high after they went undefeated during the preseason. They have also played a tougher schedule. I don't take a lot of stock in the preseason. It's still really early though. There are always some teams that start off hot and really cool off and others who have slow starts and get a lot better.

[lilfishi22]

So Nurkic pros and cons

Pros -
Defensive rebounder
Screen setter
Spreads floor
Decent FT%

Cons -
Finishing
Slow
Can't jump
Turnovers

Just might be something we have to live with

Just a few nit-picky comments, not based on your post but on my belief that some were using ridiculously small sample sizes in recent Nurkic complaints.

You mentioned defensive rebounding as good. There have been some complaints about his offensive rebounding, which I thought unusual. I don't think I've ever heard a big blasted for that. Usually the team is blamed for giving up offensive boards on the other end of the court. After a couple of games he was 20th in rebounding and 96th in offensive rebounding. Since then of course it's been better, and last year he was 7th and 9th in the league. So he is obviously just an exceptionally good rebounder.

His turnovers are still high for his minutes. But Jokic and James have averaged about that number, although admittedly not bad for how much they handle the ball and create offense. On the other hand, for his eleven years Nurkic has averaged only 2.2. So it seems likely that "this too shall pass".

Another of the cons was finishing, At the time he was averaging 37.5%, but it is already up to about 44%. Since he has averaged 50% for his career, and 51% last year, I'm confident it will at least rise to that level. Admittedly that is great for a perimeter shooter, but mediocre for a drop center. But with Durant, Bol, and the shooting proficiency of our guards, I can live with any role player being at or near 50%.

I realize Jusuf is not a top tier center. I think he's rated about 20th. But considering what he is paid, what I consider a pretty good fit on this team, and what his team mates seem to believe, I think he's somewhat too harshly evaluated.

The critiques of his turnovers are more to do with the nature of them as much as the raw number of them. They are just incredibly careless and lazy a lot of the time. Last year you could forgive it because we were severely lacking in playmaking and the system we ran wasn't generating shots either so it was highly dependent on the individual playmaking abilities of players like Nurk to set things up for others.

This year....well I would say we have next to no need for Nurk's playmaking so you would expect his turnovers to come down given he's handling the ball less, his touches are down and time of possession is also down. Those are expected given the addition of Jones, a real offensive system and his minutes coming down. Yet he's essentially tied at #1 on the team in turnovers with KD (who has been criticised himself for some careless TO's) despite playing almost 120min less. His TOV% is a sky high 28.2% where his next worst is like last year at 19.1%. His AST% is also near his rookie season low of 9% (a full 10% less than last season).

So not only is he not doing anything productive with those TO's like he was last season where those TO's came at the benefit of 4 assists a game (1.72 A:T), right now he has 28 turnovers to only 12 assists.....Mason Plumlee has 9 assists with only 4 turnovers for a comp. It's next level bad. So yes, those TO's *should* normalise but until it does, he should get all the criticism he's gotten for those TO's which quite frankly are unnecessary because he really should just be playing it safe with those passes rather than taking chances for assists.

As for his finishing, it's actually marginally better than last year. It'll never be that great (for whatever reason he just has poor touch around the rim) but slightly better is better. The big difference in his shot profile this season is that there's been a massive increase in his 3PA rate. He only started shooting 3's with some regularity over the last couple of seasons but they only accounted for about 23% and 14% of his total field goals. This season, it's at a whopping 40%. It's clearly a Bud thing to try and get his big man to stretch the floor like Brook did for him in Milwaukee. He's only hitting 32% of his attempts so far which isn't good and that's helped by the 3 of 3 from the last game but with the improved FT%, he's basically at his peak in efficiency for his career. If he hit had hit one more 3, he would be at 60% TS% which is kind of baseline for a starting level C. So he's certainly becoming more useful offensively, IF he can just cut down on the playmaking attempts which often leads to turnovers and continue to improve from 3.

[grumpysaddle]

Beal has been great on the defensive end. No one is really pointing that out. He's been locked in and disrupting a ton of possessions for the opposing teams.

[Mulhollanddrive]

What I'm liking about Budenholzer so far.

Said wanted more 3s and got it.

9 man rotation is playing playoff rotation, he knows who he likes and plays them. Basically 8 man and Dunn if he performs.

Some years we don't know our gamestyle or best rotation ever (eg. last year).

I think his biggest challenge will be how do we cover our athletic disadvantage so it's close to neutral - I like the pass ahead style of play in semi transition, Beal is our quickest starter so defends ball handlers, expecting to see more crashing boards to try get offensive rebounds up.

[Saberestar]

What I'm liking about Budenholzer so far.

Said wanted more 3s and got it.

9 man rotation is playing playoff rotation, he knows who he likes and plays them. Basically 8 man and Dunn if he performs.

Some years we don't know our gamestyle or best rotation ever.

Yeah, it's a 9 man rotation with Allen, O'Neale, Dunn and Plumlee as a bench players.

Monte Morris played minutes when Beal or Allen were out and I think he will play again with Dunn out against Dallas.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Lively, Kleber, Washington, Exum out for Dallas.

Possible rotation -
Irving, Doncic, Thompson, Marshall, Gafford
Dinwiddie, Grimes, Hardy, Prosper, Powell

Could see Okogie for us tomorrow for Dunn