RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[JustBuzzin]

I just want to know who the ten people are who selected Kobe Bryant at this point lol

I just want to know why are there more than 2 players on this list.

It might be a generation thing, but for my lifetime the GOAT debate has always been MJ or LeBron.

Did they even have GOAT debates in the 80's?


I feel like GOAT talk was brought up in the early 2000's. Social media wasn't around back in the 80's/90's so not sure if there was ever a conversation unless it was barbershop talk.

[cupcakesnake]

I just want to know who the ten people are who selected Kobe Bryant at this point lol

I just want to know why are there more than 2 players on this list.

It might be a generation thing, but for my lifetime the GOAT debate has always been MJ or LeBron.

Did they even have GOAT debates in the 80's?


I feel like GOAT talk was brought up in the early 2000's. Social media wasn't around back in the 80's/90's so not sure if there was ever a conversation unless it was barbershop talk.

There absolutely has been a GOAT debate going on longer than that.
It was a philosophical Russell vs. Wilt debate for a long time. Then came Kareem and lots of people started calling him the greatest ever (making Wilt very salty and upset). Bird and Magic came along and people were making cases for them.

I do think MJ being clearly the greatest player of his era sparked the kind of debate we had now. MJ brought so many new fans to the NBA, a whole generation that had never seen Wilt/Russell and many who hadn't seen Kareem, Magic, Bird. People knew of Wilt's legendary numbers, so for a while there was a MJ vs. Wilt debate. More intensive historians had it as Kareem vs. MJ. Then Lebron came along and well, here we are.

[JustBuzzin]

I just want to know who the ten people are who selected Kobe Bryant at this point lol

I just want to know why are there more than 2 players on this list.

It might be a generation thing, but for my lifetime the GOAT debate has always been MJ or LeBron.

Did they even have GOAT debates in the 80's?


I feel like GOAT talk was brought up in the early 2000's. Social media wasn't around back in the 80's/90's so not sure if there was ever a conversation unless it was barbershop talk.

There absolutely has been a GOAT debate going on longer than that.
It was a philosophical Russell vs. Wilt debate for a long time. Then came Kareem and lots of people started calling him the greatest ever (making Wilt very salty and upset). Bird and Magic came along and people were making cases for them.

I do think MJ being clearly the greatest player of his era sparked the kind of debate we had now. MJ brought so many new fans to the NBA, a whole generation that had never seen Wilt/Russell and many who hadn't seen Kareem, Magic, Bird. People knew of Wilt's legendary numbers, so for a while there was a MJ vs. Wilt debate. More intensive historians had it as Kareem vs. MJ. Then Lebron came along and well, here we are.

Yeah that's why I say the GOAT talk should be a generation thing. I honestly don't feel comfortable even ranking the Magic/Bird/Kareem/Russell's because I never seen them with my own eyes. I get they have highlights but that doesn't tell the full story. I would have loved to see Magic at his size playing back then for a full game.

It's tough to judge anyone outside of MJ/LeBron because that's all I saw with my own eyes. And honestly I missed prime MJ years. I saw MJ at the backend of those championships and I still remember thinking that dude was a superhero he didn't seem real.

Even though I think LeBron is better overall, I never got that superhero feeling like I did with MJ. He just had a different vibe about him.

[Jaqua92]

I just want to know why are there more than 2 players on this list.

It might be a generation thing, but for my lifetime the GOAT debate has always been MJ or LeBron.

Did they even have GOAT debates in the 80's?


I feel like GOAT talk was brought up in the early 2000's. Social media wasn't around back in the 80's/90's so not sure if there was ever a conversation unless it was barbershop talk.

There absolutely has been a GOAT debate going on longer than that.
It was a philosophical Russell vs. Wilt debate for a long time. Then came Kareem and lots of people started calling him the greatest ever (making Wilt very salty and upset). Bird and Magic came along and people were making cases for them.

I do think MJ being clearly the greatest player of his era sparked the kind of debate we had now. MJ brought so many new fans to the NBA, a whole generation that had never seen Wilt/Russell and many who hadn't seen Kareem, Magic, Bird. People knew of Wilt's legendary numbers, so for a while there was a MJ vs. Wilt debate. More intensive historians had it as Kareem vs. MJ. Then Lebron came along and well, here we are.

Yeah that's why I say the GOAT talk should be a generation thing. I honestly don't feel comfortable even ranking the Magic/Bird/Kareem/Russell's because I never seen them with my own eyes. I get they have highlights but that doesn't tell the full story. I would have loved to see Magic at his size playing back then for a full game.

It's tough to judge anyone outside of MJ/LeBron because that's all I saw with my own eyes. And honestly I missed prime MJ years. I saw MJ at the backend of those championships and I still remember thinking that dude was a superhero he didn't seem real.

Even though I think LeBron is better overall, I never got that superhero feeling like I did with MJ. He just had a different vibe about him.

That's because MJ is better lol

[JustBuzzin]

There absolutely has been a GOAT debate going on longer than that.
It was a philosophical Russell vs. Wilt debate for a long time. Then came Kareem and lots of people started calling him the greatest ever (making Wilt very salty and upset). Bird and Magic came along and people were making cases for them.

I do think MJ being clearly the greatest player of his era sparked the kind of debate we had now. MJ brought so many new fans to the NBA, a whole generation that had never seen Wilt/Russell and many who hadn't seen Kareem, Magic, Bird. People knew of Wilt's legendary numbers, so for a while there was a MJ vs. Wilt debate. More intensive historians had it as Kareem vs. MJ. Then Lebron came along and well, here we are.

Yeah that's why I say the GOAT talk should be a generation thing. I honestly don't feel comfortable even ranking the Magic/Bird/Kareem/Russell's because I never seen them with my own eyes. I get they have highlights but that doesn't tell the full story. I would have loved to see Magic at his size playing back then for a full game.

It's tough to judge anyone outside of MJ/LeBron because that's all I saw with my own eyes. And honestly I missed prime MJ years. I saw MJ at the backend of those championships and I still remember thinking that dude was a superhero he didn't seem real.

Even though I think LeBron is better overall, I never got that superhero feeling like I did with MJ. He just had a different vibe about him.

That's because MJ is better lol

It's hard man, but I think I give the slight edge to LeBron. I feel if you have both a similar supporting cast LeBron could just do more with less. Those Cavs teams were awful early in his career. MJ had awful teams early in his career, but he didn't have the Bulls contending early like LeBron had the Cavs early in his career.

LeBron didn't get his Pippen until Miami.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Its over. Doesnt matter how many more threads you guys open the result wont change. Its MJ, then a lot of empty space, then a group of guys that is really difficult to rank. If you focus on the #1 spot you can put the debate to rest for a few years (until Jokic has estabilshed himself solidly in this debate with a few more titles).

[Rust_Cohle]

Yeah that's why I say the GOAT talk should be a generation thing. I honestly don't feel comfortable even ranking the Magic/Bird/Kareem/Russell's because I never seen them with my own eyes. I get they have highlights but that doesn't tell the full story. I would have loved to see Magic at his size playing back then for a full game.

It's tough to judge anyone outside of MJ/LeBron because that's all I saw with my own eyes. And honestly I missed prime MJ years. I saw MJ at the backend of those championships and I still remember thinking that dude was a superhero he didn't seem real.

Even though I think LeBron is better overall, I never got that superhero feeling like I did with MJ. He just had a different vibe about him.

That's because MJ is better lol

It's hard man, but I think I give the slight edge to LeBron. I feel if you have both a similar supporting cast LeBron could just do more with less. Those Cavs teams were awful early in his career. MJ had awful teams early in his career, but he didn't have the Bulls contending early like LeBron had the Cavs early in his career.

LeBron didn't get his Pippen until Miami.

I’d argue Jordan played in a tougher conference than LeBron did. In the 80’s he had a historically great Celtics team and then pistons team to contend with. LeBron also had teammates from those “bad” cavs teams that became all stars. I do think LeBron’s supporting cast wasnt amazing during his first cavs stint but weirdly a little bit underrated at the same time. But the east was often referred to as the leastern conference during that time.

[HighFlyer23]

Jokic is going to be a threat to this debate if he can amass more titles and accolades

His stats already have him as a legit candidate he's just lacking the extended period of dominance, rings, and accolades


Keep in mind he was robbed of MVP last year to that 7 foot crybaby but others have been robbed of MVPs and awards before too

[1993Playoffs]

Jokic is going to be a threat to this debate if he can amass more titles and accolades

His stats already have him as a legit candidate he's just lacking the extended period of dominance, rings, and accolades


Keep in mind he was robbed of MVP last year to that 7 foot crybaby but others have been robbed of MVPs and awards before too

Going to be tough to be #1 with zero defense accolades in his career.

[HighFlyer23]

Jokic is going to be a threat to this debate if he can amass more titles and accolades

His stats already have him as a legit candidate he's just lacking the extended period of dominance, rings, and accolades


Keep in mind he was robbed of MVP last year to that 7 foot crybaby but others have been robbed of MVPs and awards before too

Going to be tough to be #1 with zero defense accolades in his career.

Agreed

And he treats basketball like a 9-5 clock in clock out job ... Nothing wrong with that but ok there candidates were fixated on the sport

[cupcakesnake]

I just want to know why are there more than 2 players on this list.

It might be a generation thing, but for my lifetime the GOAT debate has always been MJ or LeBron.

Did they even have GOAT debates in the 80's?


I feel like GOAT talk was brought up in the early 2000's. Social media wasn't around back in the 80's/90's so not sure if there was ever a conversation unless it was barbershop talk.

There absolutely has been a GOAT debate going on longer than that.
It was a philosophical Russell vs. Wilt debate for a long time. Then came Kareem and lots of people started calling him the greatest ever (making Wilt very salty and upset). Bird and Magic came along and people were making cases for them.

I do think MJ being clearly the greatest player of his era sparked the kind of debate we had now. MJ brought so many new fans to the NBA, a whole generation that had never seen Wilt/Russell and many who hadn't seen Kareem, Magic, Bird. People knew of Wilt's legendary numbers, so for a while there was a MJ vs. Wilt debate. More intensive historians had it as Kareem vs. MJ. Then Lebron came along and well, here we are.

Yeah that's why I say the GOAT talk should be a generation thing. I honestly don't feel comfortable even ranking the Magic/Bird/Kareem/Russell's because I never seen them with my own eyes. I get they have highlights but that doesn't tell the full story. I would have loved to see Magic at his size playing back then for a full game.

It's tough to judge anyone outside of MJ/LeBron because that's all I saw with my own eyes. And honestly I missed prime MJ years. I saw MJ at the backend of those championships and I still remember thinking that dude was a superhero he didn't seem real.

Even though I think LeBron is better overall, I never got that superhero feeling like I did with MJ. He just had a different vibe about him.

It's extremely difficult to compare players between eras. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out, or even calling it pointless/impossible. We do it for fun, but in any kind of historical analysis, you can't actually determine who's best or better.

Most people in a thread like this are just going off vibes, lol. They love the story of MJ, or they grew up with Lebron and are loyal. There are pretty smart arguments to make for MJ or Lebron, but that's not what most people are doing, right? It's a feelings based debate most of the time, and most people don't have strong feelings about Kareem or Bill Russell.

There are plenty of really nerdy fans who are legit (though mostly amateur, obviously) basketball historians. You can never watch Bill Russell's (or Kareem, or Mikan, or even Magic for many of us) career in real time, and the further you go back, the less statistical data you have access to. You can, however, still learn a TON about these players through available game footage and stats. Let's be real though, probably 1% of fans are nerdy enough to study this enough to have a worthwhile opinion. People don't want to trust those nerds anyways, because we all want our opinion to be valid. You might have 1 guy who has watched 2 dozen Wilt games arguing against someone who is just going off vibes, stories, and a couple highlights.

I'm not a stat crazy person myself, but I like to know what players can do functionally. I know Magic is great because he had an unparalleled ability to identify the most vulnerable spot in a defense and get the ball there, either with the pass or his own physical mismatch scoring ability. Even watching a few games, you can see his crazy ability to force the ball to a teammate who is open or has a mismatch. Then I have the basic stats that tell me Magic doing this produced some of the best offense ever.

[bledredwine]

There absolutely has been a GOAT debate going on longer than that.
It was a philosophical Russell vs. Wilt debate for a long time. Then came Kareem and lots of people started calling him the greatest ever (making Wilt very salty and upset). Bird and Magic came along and people were making cases for them.

I do think MJ being clearly the greatest player of his era sparked the kind of debate we had now. MJ brought so many new fans to the NBA, a whole generation that had never seen Wilt/Russell and many who hadn't seen Kareem, Magic, Bird. People knew of Wilt's legendary numbers, so for a while there was a MJ vs. Wilt debate. More intensive historians had it as Kareem vs. MJ. Then Lebron came along and well, here we are.

Yeah that's why I say the GOAT talk should be a generation thing. I honestly don't feel comfortable even ranking the Magic/Bird/Kareem/Russell's because I never seen them with my own eyes. I get they have highlights but that doesn't tell the full story. I would have loved to see Magic at his size playing back then for a full game.

It's tough to judge anyone outside of MJ/LeBron because that's all I saw with my own eyes. And honestly I missed prime MJ years. I saw MJ at the backend of those championships and I still remember thinking that dude was a superhero he didn't seem real.

Even though I think LeBron is better overall, I never got that superhero feeling like I did with MJ. He just had a different vibe about him.

It's extremely difficult to compare players between eras. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out, or even calling it pointless/impossible. We do it for fun, but in any kind of historical analysis, you can't actually determine who's best or better.

Most people in a thread like this are just going off vibes, lol. They love the story of MJ, or they grew up with Lebron and are loyal. There are pretty smart arguments to make for MJ or Lebron, but that's not what most people are doing, right? It's a feelings based debate most of the time, and most people don't have strong feelings about Kareem or Bill Russell.

There are plenty of really nerdy fans who are legit (though mostly amateur, obviously) basketball historians. You can never watch Bill Russell's (or Kareem, or Mikan, or even Magic for many of us) career in real time, and the further you go back, the less statistical data you have access to. You can, however, still learn a TON about these players through available game footage and stats. Let's be real though, probably 1% of fans are nerdy enough to study this enough to have a worthwhile opinion. People don't want to trust those nerds anyways, because we all want our opinion to be valid. You might have 1 guy who has watched 2 dozen Wilt games arguing against someone who is just going off vibes, stories, and a couple highlights.

I'm not a stat crazy person myself, but I like to know what players can do functionally. I know Magic is great because he had an unparalleled ability to identify the most vulnerable spot in a defense and get the ball there, either with the pass or his own physical mismatch scoring ability. Even watching a few games, you can see his crazy ability to force the ball to a teammate who is open or has a mismatch. Then I have the basic stats that tell me Magic doing this produced some of the best offense ever.

Look, I know that you're a big Lebron fan, but the claim about Mj being a "love story" and us going off of vibes is ridiculous. Jordan has the stats to back it up, and despite playing in an era when PER wasn't inflated by open lanes and assists/3's, Jordan even wins the PER debate between the two.

If you haven't seen it already, this can tell you everything that you need to know.

I get that you like Lebron, but dismissing Jordan when he has all bases covered is going off the deep end... just false.

Watch on YouTube

That's not going off "vibes".... it's hard evidence from multiple angles. And sure enough, the players who actually got a chance to play against Lebron and Jordan all state it's Jordan, "by far" or "no question".

When you have had players like Bird, Magic, Kobe, and Lebron himself referring to Jordan as the greatest of all time, Bird saying "God disguised as Michael Jordan" it's more than just vibes. In his prime, the guy was the most dominant player that we've seen and did it on both ends of the court.

[cupcakesnake]

Look, I know that you're a big Lebron fan,

I get that you like Lebron, but dismissing Jordan when he has all bases covered is going off the deep end... just false.

I'm not a Lebron fan at all. I've rooted against him his whole career.

I don't get what you're responding to. I was talking about the history of the GOAT debate and how I feel about the state of the discourse. I didn't make any big comment on any player, but you see MJ's named and automatically go on the defensive and give your pro-MJ arguments for the millionth time, responding to...nothing that I said. Explain how I dismissed Jordan or how anything you said had anything to do with anything I said.

I don't care much for participating in the GOAT debate. It's so boring and overdone. I think MJ has a pretty obvious case for GOAT. Lebron does too, sure. I prefer MJ's prime. I've seen plenty of smart arguments for a handful of other guys too (Kareem, Russell, Duncan). I don't lose sleep over it.

[ScrantonBulls]

Look, I know that you're a big Lebron fan,

I get that you like Lebron, but dismissing Jordan when he has all bases covered is going off the deep end... just false.

I'm not a Lebron fan at all. I've rooted against him his whole career.

I don't get what you're responding to. I was talking about the history of the GOAT debate and how I feel about the state of the discourse. I didn't make any big comment on any player, but you see MJ's named and automatically go on the defensive and give your pro-MJ arguments for the millionth time, responding to...nothing that I said. Explain how I dismissed Jordan or how anything you said had anything to do with anything I said.

I don't care much for participating in the GOAT debate. It's so boring and overdone. I think MJ has a pretty obvious case for GOAT. Lebron does too, sure. I prefer MJ's prime. I've seen plenty of smart arguments for a handful of other guys too (Kareem, Russell, Duncan). I don't lose sleep over it.

Neither does he. He just happens to have his signature and his whole identity on this forum dedicated to slandering LeBron whenever possible.

He totally doesn't lose sleep over LeBron though

[Joao Saraiva]

Didn't look into this thread for a big time. I thought Russell, Wilt or Kareem would have a bigger % than they do to be honest.

Btw I'm ready to throw Jokic as high as #6 on my all time list. And at some point it seems unfair to him, he clearly would solidify a better place collecting more rings. For me it's more about him having long and great playoff runs tough.

Will he have a real chance of being in the discussion by staying in Denver? For me I feel like it's a yes. 3 more years (including this one) at similar level of dominance and I believe he starts being in the GOAT conversation.

It's absolutely nuts. If somebody told me 7 years ago Jokic would have something similar to a top 10 position solidified in basketball rankings I would say it would be very unlikely. Yet here we are. Dude is a machine!

[Joao Saraiva]

I just want to know who the ten people are who selected Kobe Bryant at this point lol

I just want to know why are there more than 2 players on this list.

It might be a generation thing, but for my lifetime the GOAT debate has always been MJ or LeBron.

Did they even have GOAT debates in the 80's?


I feel like GOAT talk was brought up in the early 2000's. Social media wasn't around back in the 80's/90's so not sure if there was ever a conversation unless it was barbershop talk.

Is it even absurd to consider Wilt, KAJ or Russell as the GOAT? They have very unique arguments. Not everybody values the same things the same way.

I'll go as far as saying if GOAT is a peak only discussion I would throw Hakeem in there. And somebody can have that type of view on who the GOAT is.

People who voted for Kobe... Kobe was a generational player. Even tough I don't see any argument for GOAT he surely has a pretty big fan base. So it's just natural some of them are in denial about him not having that case. It's gonna happen when the aura of a player is bigger than his achievements. And this says a lot about Kobe's aura, since he was a phenomenal player.

[JustBuzzin]

I just want to know who the ten people are who selected Kobe Bryant at this point lol

I just want to know why are there more than 2 players on this list.

It might be a generation thing, but for my lifetime the GOAT debate has always been MJ or LeBron.

Did they even have GOAT debates in the 80's?


I feel like GOAT talk was brought up in the early 2000's. Social media wasn't around back in the 80's/90's so not sure if there was ever a conversation unless it was barbershop talk.

Is it even absurd to consider Wilt, KAJ or Russell as the GOAT? They have very unique arguments. Not everybody values the same things the same way.

I'll go as far as saying if GOAT is a peak only discussion I would throw Hakeem in there. And somebody can have that type of view on who the GOAT is.

People who voted for Kobe... Kobe was a generational player. Even tough I don't see any argument for GOAT he surely has a pretty big fan base. So it's just natural some of them are in denial about him not having that case. It's gonna happen when the aura of a player is bigger than his achievements. And this says a lot about Kobe's aura, since he was a phenomenal player.

How can I call someone the GOAT if I never seen them play?

So are we going off stats or are we going off the eye test + stats?

I never seen Wilt impact. I know he got the craziest stats of any player. With stats like that you should be the GOAT, but nobody is calling him the GOAT. Is it because Russell owned him in the championship column?

The GOAT debate for me will always be players I actually watched with my own eyes. I don't feel comfortable calling someone the GOAT and I never seen them play a single game. It's bigger than stats and championships to me.

[Joao Saraiva]

I just want to know why are there more than 2 players on this list.

It might be a generation thing, but for my lifetime the GOAT debate has always been MJ or LeBron.

Did they even have GOAT debates in the 80's?


I feel like GOAT talk was brought up in the early 2000's. Social media wasn't around back in the 80's/90's so not sure if there was ever a conversation unless it was barbershop talk.

Is it even absurd to consider Wilt, KAJ or Russell as the GOAT? They have very unique arguments. Not everybody values the same things the same way.

I'll go as far as saying if GOAT is a peak only discussion I would throw Hakeem in there. And somebody can have that type of view on who the GOAT is.

People who voted for Kobe... Kobe was a generational player. Even tough I don't see any argument for GOAT he surely has a pretty big fan base. So it's just natural some of them are in denial about him not having that case. It's gonna happen when the aura of a player is bigger than his achievements. And this says a lot about Kobe's aura, since he was a phenomenal player.

How can I call someone the GOAT if I never seen them play?

So are we going off stats or are we going off the eye test + stats?

I never seen Wilt impact. I know he got the craziest stats of any player. With stats like that you should be the GOAT, but nobody is calling him the GOAT. Is it because Russell owned him in the championship column?

The GOAT debate for me will always be players I actually watched with my own eyes. I don't feel comfortable calling someone the GOAT and I never seen them play a single game. It's bigger than stats and championships to me.

There isn't a lot of footage, but there is footage. You can read about it, see what's there to see. And sure stats help.

Wilt's records are super crazy, rule changes he caused. Also it seems coaches didn't use him properly. Played him 48 a night. Insisted on him scoring a ton. He only won when he became more of a defensive anchor, so some can say he was so great coaches didn't even know how to use him. There is a case. Even if not the strongest one.

[JustBuzzin]

Is it even absurd to consider Wilt, KAJ or Russell as the GOAT? They have very unique arguments. Not everybody values the same things the same way.

I'll go as far as saying if GOAT is a peak only discussion I would throw Hakeem in there. And somebody can have that type of view on who the GOAT is.

People who voted for Kobe... Kobe was a generational player. Even tough I don't see any argument for GOAT he surely has a pretty big fan base. So it's just natural some of them are in denial about him not having that case. It's gonna happen when the aura of a player is bigger than his achievements. And this says a lot about Kobe's aura, since he was a phenomenal player.

How can I call someone the GOAT if I never seen them play?

So are we going off stats or are we going off the eye test + stats?

I never seen Wilt impact. I know he got the craziest stats of any player. With stats like that you should be the GOAT, but nobody is calling him the GOAT. Is it because Russell owned him in the championship column?

The GOAT debate for me will always be players I actually watched with my own eyes. I don't feel comfortable calling someone the GOAT and I never seen them play a single game. It's bigger than stats and championships to me.

There isn't a lot of footage, but there is footage. You can read about it, see what's there to see. And sure stats help.

Wilt's records are super crazy, rule changes he caused. Also it seems coaches didn't use him properly. Played him 48 a night. Insisted on him scoring a ton. He only won when he became more of a defensive anchor, so some can say he was so great coaches didn't even know how to use him. There is a case. Even if not the strongest one.

You never saw Wilt play, but you're telling me based on word of mouth that he was great.

If your argument is based on word of mouth how can I really value your opinion. Do you understand how this doesn't make sense.


Does the eye test not stand for anything anymore?

This is like me saying Abraham Lincoln was the best president ever and I wasn't even alive to witness him as president. How are you judging someone you never saw with your own eyes?

[Joao Saraiva]

How can I call someone the GOAT if I never seen them play?

So are we going off stats or are we going off the eye test + stats?

I never seen Wilt impact. I know he got the craziest stats of any player. With stats like that you should be the GOAT, but nobody is calling him the GOAT. Is it because Russell owned him in the championship column?

The GOAT debate for me will always be players I actually watched with my own eyes. I don't feel comfortable calling someone the GOAT and I never seen them play a single game. It's bigger than stats and championships to me.

There isn't a lot of footage, but there is footage. You can read about it, see what's there to see. And sure stats help.

Wilt's records are super crazy, rule changes he caused. Also it seems coaches didn't use him properly. Played him 48 a night. Insisted on him scoring a ton. He only won when he became more of a defensive anchor, so some can say he was so great coaches didn't even know how to use him. There is a case. Even if not the strongest one.

You never saw Wilt play, but you're telling me based on word of mouth that he was great.

If your argument is based on word of mouth how can I really value your opinion. Do you understand how this doesn't make sense.


Does the eye test not stand for anything anymore?

This is like me saying Abraham Lincoln was the best president ever and I wasn't even alive to witness him as president. How are you judging someone you never saw with your own eyes?

Actually saw a few games of him. Altough I gotta say what kept my eye was Jerry West who seemed well ahead of his time, despite not using as much as he should his off hand.

Well that's exactly why we evolved as a species and why communication is so important.

If we could not write, keep documents and transmit information to future generations we couldn't be where we are as a society. So why should we disregard all the information out there that we didn't see live? It makes no sense.