Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[Norseman79]

Here's something that'll make some of your heads spin...

Min out: McDaniels,Naw, Shannon Jr
In: Simons, Murray, Reath

Por out: Simons, Murray, Reath
In: McDaniels, Naw, Shannon Jr

MN
PG - Simons, Conley, Dilly
SG- Edwards, DD, Clark
SF- Murray, Minott, Ingles
PF- Randle, Naz, Miller
C - Gobert, Reath, Garza

Simons and Edwards....good luck. Let Conley run 2nd unit and key possessions late. Dilly develops.
Murray is all around solid, better offensively than McDaniels, but not the defender.
Reath perfect backup 5 for Rudy.

McDaniels heads back to Pacific Northwest. He and Avdiji with Ayton/Clingan would be great, NAW helps balance out their starting 5.

Imagine having Rudy Gobert but managing a bottom 5 defense. That's what this trade would accomplish.

2 Ants and Julius Randle is a good offense, but not historical or anything. This trade makes us similar to the Sacramento Kings or Indiana Pacers.

You are underrating Murray's defense, plus improved depth. Also, Simons is no slouch on ball.

You honestly think that the two players we trade are the difference between a top 10 and bottom 5 defense?

[Klomp]

Here's something that'll make some of your heads spin...

Min out: McDaniels,Naw, Shannon Jr
In: Simons, Murray, Reath

Por out: Simons, Murray, Reath
In: McDaniels, Naw, Shannon Jr

MN
PG - Simons, Conley, Dilly
SG- Edwards, DD, Clark
SF- Murray, Minott, Ingles
PF- Randle, Naz, Miller
C - Gobert, Reath, Garza

Simons and Edwards....good luck. Let Conley run 2nd unit and key possessions late. Dilly develops.
Murray is all around solid, better offensively than McDaniels, but not the defender.
Reath perfect backup 5 for Rudy.

McDaniels heads back to Pacific Northwest. He and Avdiji with Ayton/Clingan would be great, NAW helps balance out their starting 5.

Imagine having Rudy Gobert but managing a bottom 5 defense. That's what this trade would accomplish.

2 Ants and Julius Randle is a good offense, but not historical or anything. This trade makes us similar to the Sacramento Kings or Indiana Pacers.

You are underrating Murray's defense, plus improved depth. Also, Simons is no slouch on ball.

You honestly think that the two players we trade are the difference between a top 10 and bottom 5 defense?

Are you sure you have the correct brother?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrakr01.html

[Loaf_of_bread]

Not sure what the wolves are going to do next but I think Jaden may be entering the "available" column vs the "untouchable" one he was in early. Similar to Towns, he fouls at an alarming rate. Not sure if it's just a bad whistle or poor technique at this point. He's also just too inconsistent on offense, which then leads to his confidence being shaken.

I'm also starting to believe his defense is slightly overrated. His screen navigation isn't the best and is too light for the bigger wing threats. It's hard to remove him from the starting lineup though because clearly no one else has overtaken him in practice and it would decrease our size heavily.

I'm also not sold on NAZ sliding into the starting 4 role either, even though he's a fan favorite. I know ppl are high on Rob as well but I just don't know. I prefer a bigger guard but time will tell with him.

Jaden may be better suited as a pf with the right team, if not ours. Personally, wouldn't mind Julius coming off the bench to evaluate jaden as pf.

[cupcakesnake]

Here's something that'll make some of your heads spin...

Min out: McDaniels,Naw, Shannon Jr
In: Simons, Murray, Reath

Por out: Simons, Murray, Reath
In: McDaniels, Naw, Shannon Jr

MN
PG - Simons, Conley, Dilly
SG- Edwards, DD, Clark
SF- Murray, Minott, Ingles
PF- Randle, Naz, Miller
C - Gobert, Reath, Garza

Simons and Edwards....good luck. Let Conley run 2nd unit and key possessions late. Dilly develops.
Murray is all around solid, better offensively than McDaniels, but not the defender.
Reath perfect backup 5 for Rudy.

McDaniels heads back to Pacific Northwest. He and Avdiji with Ayton/Clingan would be great, NAW helps balance out their starting 5.

Imagine having Rudy Gobert but managing a bottom 5 defense. That's what this trade would accomplish.

2 Ants and Julius Randle is a good offense, but not historical or anything. This trade makes us similar to the Sacramento Kings or Indiana Pacers.

You are underrating Murray's defense, plus improved depth. Also, Simons is no slouch on ball.

You honestly think that the two players we trade are the difference between a top 10 and bottom 5 defense?

I think we're already really struggling to incorporate Julius Randle into our high effort scheme. We're the 14th ranked defense right now (112.8 Drtg) but we're losing the Randle minutes overall thanks to a 119.7 Drtg with him on the floor. Our starters are posting a 122 Drtg. Defense is a big problem for us. Gobert-ccentric bench units are working, but that's about it.

By the numbers, Anfernee Simons is one of the worst defensive guards in basketball. I think Kris Murray has looked solid defensively, but (as Klomp asked) I can't tell if you're mistaking him for his older brother Keegan or not. Kris Murray could end up being a good defender, but we don't know for sure if he's going to end up a starter level player. He does not have the physical tools that Jaden has (2-3 inches shorter and slower feet). Kris Murray is having an uninpiring start to his second season.

You're trading away our 2 best perimeter defenders and opening up brand new holes for offenses to tear through. Gobert plugs some holes and maybe keeps us out of the gutter in the regular season, but this would not be a playoff winning formula. Defensive liabilities get murdered in the playoffs.

At best this trade is just swapping offense for defense. At worst it's creating a new kind of team that is less serious in the playoffs.

[Guest84]

Not sure what the wolves are going to do next but I think Jaden may be entering the "available" column vs the "untouchable" one he was in early. Similar to Towns, he fouls at an alarming rate. Not sure if it's just a bad whistle or poor technique at this point. He's also just too inconsistent on offense, which then leads to his confidence being shaken.

I'm also starting to believe his defense is slightly overrated. His screen navigation isn't the best and is too light for the bigger wing threats. It's hard to remove him from the starting lineup though because clearly no one else has overtaken him in practice and it would decrease our size heavily.

I'm also not sold on NAZ sliding into the starting 4 role either, even though he's a fan favorite. I know ppl are high on Rob as well but I just don't know. I prefer a bigger guard but time will tell with him.

Jaden may be better suited as a pf with the right team, if not ours. Personally, wouldn't mind Julius coming off the bench to evaluate jaden as pf.

I understand the thinking with this but I don't think you can remove a potential 25/10/5 guy from the lineup to try Jaden out there. Regardless of Randle's defensive flaws, it would be a disservice to the team. He has a lot more gravity than Jaden and that's needed to help open it up for Ant.

Also, Jaden is too light for PF and not aggressive enough on the boards to do it FT. I honestly think Jaden might be better suited coming off the bench. Looking at the team, I think we may need another PG, SF, C.

We really need to see what we have in Rob, TSJ, and Minott in my opinion.

[shrink]

There has always been (correctly) the view that we need to get more out of Jaden offensively. We do, but right now with neither side working well for him, I think in the short term we could ask him to double down on his defense, to make up for Randle’s deficiencies. As the season goes on, I would hope Randle would improve defensively as Jaden improves offensively.

[Norseman79]

Imagine having Rudy Gobert but managing a bottom 5 defense. That's what this trade would accomplish.

2 Ants and Julius Randle is a good offense, but not historical or anything. This trade makes us similar to the Sacramento Kings or Indiana Pacers.

You are underrating Murray's defense, plus improved depth. Also, Simons is no slouch on ball.

You honestly think that the two players we trade are the difference between a top 10 and bottom 5 defense?

Are you sure you have the correct brother?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrakr01.html

I'm sure, but I'm looking at him from his scouting reports and such not the fact that he's stuck on Portland's s******* team. Now make no mistake about it, this also means playing Minott a lot more at the three where he should be.

We fix a hole at point guard, at a ton of offense and equal or better defense to what we've been getting from Conley. Dillingham is clearly not ready, and he may be best used as an eventual sixth man, elite score off the bench for a few years.

Even if I concede that we may be creating a hole at small forward, given the current play, it wouldn't be a substantial hole. We also have Naz and Randle who could conceivably play the 3.

We would also be adding a significant upgrade to backup center which would help the hemorrhaging of paint points when Rudy is out of the game.

My biggest issue with this trade, which was never meant to be taken seriously, would be that we would be getting even smaller in the front court, except backup center. I would be much happier seeing if we could flip Randall and Naw for someone like Evan Mobley and fill I would be all about it.

[Devilzsidewalk]

There has always been (correctly) the view that we need to get more out of Jaden offensively. We do, but right now with neither side working well for him, I think in the short term we could ask him to double down on his defense, to make up for Randle’s deficiencies. As the season goes on, I would hope Randle would improve defensively as Jaden improves offensively.

I was actually thinking maybe we should take away defensive responsibility. Using him strictly on-ball takes away some of the value of his height and agility as a help defender. If you run a screen and he's trailing over the top and you now have him on your hip hostage-dribbling in traffic, it puts him in a precarious high-risk foul situation. I want to see more of him helping off the wing, force ball handlers to have to think about him. Is it real help, should I try to thread this pass to an open corner man, is he just trying to bait me, etc. I think we can put him in better spots to be more of a defensive playmaker clogging the passing lanes and contesting shots at the rim or on corner 3s.

[shrink]

There has always been (correctly) the view that we need to get more out of Jaden offensively. We do, but right now with neither side working well for him, I think in the short term we could ask him to double down on his defense, to make up for Randle’s deficiencies. As the season goes on, I would hope Randle would improve defensively as Jaden improves offensively.

I was actually thinking maybe we should take away defensive responsibility. Using him strictly on-ball takes away some of the value of his height and agility as a help defender. If you run a screen and he's trailing over the top and you now have him on your hip hostage-dribbling in traffic, it puts him in a precarious high-risk foul situation. I want to see more of him helping off the wing, force ball handlers to have to think about him. Is it real help, should I try to thread this pass to an open corner man, is he just trying to bait me, etc. I think we can put him in better spots to be more of a defensive playmaker clogging the passing lanes and contesting shots at the rim or on corner 3s.

Good point. I remember reading an article maybe two years ago about the best defenders in the NBA. They mentioned Jaden was statistically one of the ten best rim protectors in the NBA, which was shocking because he wasn’t a center! I think when NAW is on the floor, we’re better off when he’s the point of attack defender, and Jaden is guarding at the wing to help with rim protection.

[cmoss84]

Would you trade Randle, Jaden, and Minott for Giannis? Let's say mil doesn't turn things around and he wants out...

[younggunsmn]

There has always been (correctly) the view that we need to get more out of Jaden offensively. We do, but right now with neither side working well for him, I think in the short term we could ask him to double down on his defense, to make up for Randle’s deficiencies. As the season goes on, I would hope Randle would improve defensively as Jaden improves offensively.

I was actually thinking maybe we should take away defensive responsibility. Using him strictly on-ball takes away some of the value of his height and agility as a help defender. If you run a screen and he's trailing over the top and you now have him on your hip hostage-dribbling in traffic, it puts him in a precarious high-risk foul situation. I want to see more of him helping off the wing, force ball handlers to have to think about him. Is it real help, should I try to thread this pass to an open corner man, is he just trying to bait me, etc. I think we can put him in better spots to be more of a defensive playmaker clogging the passing lanes and contesting shots at the rim or on corner 3s.

The problem is if you take him off the ball, you have to put somebody in that role. So you are making Ant primary on ball defender and wearing him out, or starting NAW. And if you start NAW, you are deflating the offense.

IMHO we need more from Ant and Randle with help defense. Both are perfectly capable help defenders, but both have also been really bad this year at even paying proper attention and positioning off ball let alone being impact help defenders.

In the modern game with so many elite guards, POA defender has become a super important position.
McDaniels essentially erased a decent scorer in Anfernee Simons last night.

We could turn Jaden into a rim protecting help defender, but we would have to change up our scheme and play a lot more high wall.
Jaden was effective in that role before Rudy got here.
The problem is that if we did that, our other low man swing defender would be Julius Randle which is a recipe for utter disaster.

[Slim Tubby]

Would you trade Randle, Jaden, and Minott for Giannis? Let's say mil doesn't turn things around and he wants out...

MIL politely says "no thanks" and then removes Connelly from their GM Contact List.

I think Lilliard would be the more likely target. Could a package around McDaniels/Naz/Dillingham get a return call? Would this even make the Wolves a better team after?

Moving Naz in any deal would sure make the Wolves a Gobert injury away from disaster:

C Gobert/Garza
PF Randle/Minott
SF NAW/TSJ
SG Edwards/DiVincenzo
PG Lilliard/Conley

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

[cmoss84]

Would you trade Randle, Jaden, and Minott for Giannis? Let's say mil doesn't turn things around and he wants out...

MIL politely says "no thanks" and then removes Connelly from their GM Contact List.

I think Lilliard would be the more likely target. Could a package around McDaniels/Naz/Dillingham get a return call? Would this even make the Wolves a better team after?

Moving Naz in any deal would sure make the Wolves a Gobert injury away from disaster:

C Gobert/Garza
PF Randle/Minott
SF NAW/TSJ
SG Edwards/DiVincenzo
PG Lilliard/Conley

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

You're probably right.
Julius, Jaden, NAW, and Detroit pick if things go south quickly for them? Obviously they would have extensions in place. Probably still not near enough but who else offers more?
Lilliard would be fun but don't think it makes us better short term. Definitely not long.

[shrink]

FYI, both MIN and MIL have apron restrictions that prevent us from adding players together to match salary, plus we can’t take back $1 more than we send out. The only way we could legally trade for Giannis or Dame is to have one player on our roster that makes exactly what either of those guys makes.

This means for any trade, we need to look for packages that are smaller than the single salary we send out.

[cmoss84]

FYI, both MIN and MIL have apron restrictions that prevent us from adding players together to match salary, plus we can’t take back $1 more than we send out. The only way we could legally trade for Giannis or Dame is to have one player on our roster that makes exactly what either of those guys makes.

This means for any trade, we need to look for packages that are smaller than the single salary we send out.

Well that's a sucky rule. Thanks for ruining my stoner dreams Shrink.

[minimus]

FYI, both MIN and MIL have apron restrictions that prevent us from adding players together to match salary, plus we can’t take back $1 more than we send out. The only way we could legally trade for Giannis or Dame is to have one player on our roster that makes exactly what either of those guys makes.

This means for any trade, we need to look for packages that are smaller than the single salary we send out.

Well that's a sucky rule. Thanks for ruining my stoner dreams Shrink.

This is the most popular comment on this topic: "new CBA doesnt allow ***"

[shrink]

FYI, both MIN and MIL have apron restrictions that prevent us from adding players together to match salary, plus we can’t take back $1 more than we send out. The only way we could legally trade for Giannis or Dame is to have one player on our roster that makes exactly what either of those guys makes.

This means for any trade, we need to look for packages that are smaller than the single salary we send out.

Well that's a sucky rule. Thanks for ruining my stoner dreams Shrink.

This is the most popular comment on this topic: "new CBA doesnt allow ***"

Yeah, I’m Captain Buzzkill all the time any more.

If it’s any consolation, a lot of GMs agree with you, and a few have been vocal that it’s a sucky rule. I wouldn’t be surprised if the rule is changed BEFORE the owners and players union agree on a new deal in seven years. Fortunately, the CBA has provision that allow changes to be made unilaterally for the good of the league. The ability to change the CBA was crucial during Covid, for example.

A couple years ago, the league’s fear that ultra-rich owners like Steve Ballmer would continue to just ignore luxury tax penalties seemed very valid, and in order to try to have parity in the league, it’s understandable that they added more penalties other than money to slow these teams down. However, the general consensus has been that these rules overstepped, and have put a stranglehold on trading, particularly for contenders. The league wants trading. GMs like it to improve their teams, players like it for the chance to go to teams where they fit which helps their career, and fans like it too.

I would expect that at the end of this season or the next, the rules will be watered down. At a minimum, we will see the rule that doesn’t allow a team to take back more money in a trade switch from the first apron to the second, but I expect we will see bigger changes to help make trades easier. That doesn’t help us right now, but depending on where our salary ends up next year, it could be very important, while we’re still competing for a ring.

[vtime]

2things:

1. We are over the 2nd apron, so we can’t combine players/salaries in a trade.

2. I am in the trade Jaden and start Naz at the 3 club. We need the cap flexibility of moving Jaden in order to keep both Naz and Randle. Also, Naz is still only currently playing 24mpg. He should be around 30 if we want him to commit long term. He’s more of a wing now.

[younggunsmn]

What can we get for Julius Randle's 33 million dollar expiring contract?
I need ideas people.

Cuz it looks like we traded KAT for DDV and one iffy draft pick right now.
I'm starting to see the light on how the Knicks were better off without Randle last year.

If we extend Randle, we might as well just flush Ant's prime Wolves years right down the toilet.

[shrink]

What can we get for Julius Randle's 33 million dollar expiring contract?
I need ideas people.

So today I saw a respected HOU fan suggest Jabari Smith + Dillon Brooks for Brandon Ingram, because HOU needs offensive punch.

Other HOU fans weren’t happy with him, but here at RealGM, we are often quick to trash the borderline All Stars and say they are overpaid (or will soon be). However, time and again, reality shows that talent gets paid, and these guys get bigger free agent contracts, or bring back more in trade, than posters expect.

Could Randle be in that same boat as Ingram? I am still a fan of what Jabari could be, and I’d take on Dillon Brooks negative contract to roll those dice. Spotrac says that 2-for-1 would be legal, but we’d need to cut someone.

Julius Randle for Jabari Smith + Dillon Brooks

I’ll include Minott for a top-55 prot 2nd if they want that too.