Bears 8.0: Matt Eberflus FIRED

[Dresden]

Bingo. Only reason Poles still has a job in the Carolina fleecing. He could have hired Kingsbury and fixed the oline and he did neither.

he didn't fleece carolina either. he got lucky that they majorly whiffed with the #1 pick

Carolina was going to be pretty bad either way. The idea that the trade was only good because of luck is pretty absurd.

It was a good trade on many levels= giving up a pick in a poor draft for QB's for a pick in one of the best, getting a true WR1, which we badly needed, getting all those picks, which gave a boost to the rebuild, and allowed for one more year of evaluation for Fields, to make sure we weren't moving on from a potential star.

[panthermark]

Bingo. Only reason Poles still has a job in the Carolina fleecing. He could have hired Kingsbury and fixed the oline and he did neither.

he didn't fleece carolina either. he got lucky that they majorly whiffed with the #1 pick

Carolina was going to be pretty bad either way. The idea that the trade was only good because of luck is pretty absurd.

There is nuance to it.

Landing the #1 pick was luck. We were #2, but Lovie came to our rescue and went for the win.

Carolina not taking Stroud/going with the coach they went with were both out of the hands of Poles. Carolina could have taken Stroud/done the coach search differently, and still we could have ended up with the 3rd pick instead of the 1st.

It was still a great trade by Poles, but getting the #1, then getting the #1 again were both out of his hands. (Although getting DJ Moore helped them lose some games for sure!)

[Chi town]

Bingo. Only reason Poles still has a job in the Carolina fleecing. He could have hired Kingsbury and fixed the oline and he did neither.

he didn't fleece carolina either. he got lucky that they majorly whiffed with the #1 pick

Carolina was going to be pretty bad either way. The idea that the trade was only good because of luck is pretty absurd.

Thank you.

[Dresden]

Bears will be without both starting tackles tomorrow, and Kiran is out as well. It will be Borom at one spot, and who knows at the other. Is Noah Jackson still alive?

[dice]

Bingo. Only reason Poles still has a job in the Carolina fleecing. He could have hired Kingsbury and fixed the oline and he did neither.

he didn't fleece carolina either. he got lucky that they majorly whiffed with the #1 pick

Carolina was going to be pretty bad either way. The idea that the trade was only good because of luck is pretty absurd.

first of all, i didn't say that. secondly, go check the vegas odds heading into the season. there was zero expectation that carolina would be the worst team in the league. contender for that honor? certainly possible. but poles won the lottery. no question about that. around 25:1 shot. after a heaping dose of lovie luck to begin with

the reasonable expectation was to move on from fields (if necessary) and reset w/ another 2nd tier QB prospect. not caleb williams. we've been over this

if you're going to give poles credit for seeing the future, you then have to recognize that he could have easily had the panthers 2025 #1 pick as well. instead he opted for two 2nd rounders and DJ on a market value contract

[jnrjr79]

he didn't fleece carolina either. he got lucky that they majorly whiffed with the #1 pick

Carolina was going to be pretty bad either way. The idea that the trade was only good because of luck is pretty absurd.

There is nuance to it.

Landing the #1 pick was luck. We were #2, but Lovie came to our rescue and went for the win.

Carolina not taking Stroud/going with the coach they went with were both out of the hands of Poles. Carolina could have taken Stroud/done the coach search differently, and still we could have ended up with the 3rd pick instead of the 1st.

It was still a great trade by Poles, but getting the #1, then getting the #1 again were both out of his hands. (Although getting DJ Moore helped them lose some games for sure!)

There really isn’t nuance to it. Sure, the trade may have been even better than would be expected, but if it were merely as expected (say just a top 5 pick this year), it still would be a tremendous, tremendous return.

Sure, you can look at Stroud and say “well, that would have been great,” but Young was the favorite (though not the consensus) to go 1 and who knows what the Bears have done. Stroud, too, has been regressing some this year and Houston is not as strong as expected.

[jnrjr79]

he didn't fleece carolina either. he got lucky that they majorly whiffed with the #1 pick

Carolina was going to be pretty bad either way. The idea that the trade was only good because of luck is pretty absurd.

first of all, i didn't say that. secondly, go check the vegas odds heading into the season. there was zero expectation that carolina would be the worst team in the league. contender for that honor? certainly possible. but poles won the lottery. no question about that. around 25:1 shot. after a heaping dose of lovie luck to begin with

the reasonable expectation was to move on from fields (if necessary) and reset w/ another 2nd tier QB prospect. not caleb williams. we've been over this

if you're going to give poles credit for seeing the future, you then have to recognize that he could have easily had the panthers 2025 #1 pick as well. instead he opted for two 2nd rounders and DJ on a market value contract

If you’d actually read my very brief post, you’d note that the whole point I’m making is that the trade would have been good even if Carolina weren’t as awful as they ended up being.

[dice]

Carolina was going to be pretty bad either way. The idea that the trade was only good because of luck is pretty absurd.

There is nuance to it.

Landing the #1 pick was luck. We were #2, but Lovie came to our rescue and went for the win.

Carolina not taking Stroud/going with the coach they went with were both out of the hands of Poles. Carolina could have taken Stroud/done the coach search differently, and still we could have ended up with the 3rd pick instead of the 1st.

It was still a great trade by Poles, but getting the #1, then getting the #1 again were both out of his hands. (Although getting DJ Moore helped them lose some games for sure!)

There really isn’t nuance to it. Sure, the trade may have been even better than would be expected, but if it were merely as expected (say just a top 5 pick this year), it still would be a tremendous, tremendous return.

as expected would not have been top 5. the over/under was the #10 or 11 pick

Sure, you can look at Stroud and say “well, that would have been great,” but Young was the favorite (though not the consensus) to go 1 and who knows what the Bears have done. Stroud, too, has been regressing some this year and Houston is not as strong as expected.

i would have stuck w/ fields as well, so i can't blame poles for that. certainly can't blame him for not knowing that stroud would be way better than bryce

the most directly comparable situation is the trade-up for wentz at #2 in 2016. the cost to the eagles:

#8 overall + 1st, 2nd,3rd, 4th

caleb was a much better prospect, right? poles got the following return:

#9 overall + 1st, 2nd,2nd, DJ's contract

so...

2nd rounder plus DJ for caleb vs.
3rd and 4th rounders for wentz

did poles really fleece anyone? or does the additional return reflect the difference in the prospects? seems like pretty obviously the latter to me. perfectly fine trade under the circumstances. nothing more, nothing less. i would have take additional draft capital rather than DJ's contract, but that's me

[dice]

Carolina was going to be pretty bad either way. The idea that the trade was only good because of luck is pretty absurd.

first of all, i didn't say that. secondly, go check the vegas odds heading into the season. there was zero expectation that carolina would be the worst team in the league. contender for that honor? certainly possible. but poles won the lottery. no question about that. around 25:1 shot. after a heaping dose of lovie luck to begin with

the reasonable expectation was to move on from fields (if necessary) and reset w/ another 2nd tier QB prospect. not caleb williams. we've been over this

if you're going to give poles credit for seeing the future, you then have to recognize that he could have easily had the panthers 2025 #1 pick as well. instead he opted for two 2nd rounders and DJ on a market value contract

If you’d actually read my very brief post, you’d note that the whole point I’m making is that the trade would have been good even if Carolina weren’t as awful as they ended up being.

i did read your post and understood it just fine. if you had read mine, i never disputed that the trade was good. i disputed that it was anything special. certainly not a "fleecing." it turned into something potentially great because the bears ended up w/ the top QB prospect in years. not because of astute planning by poles. this wasn't red aeurbach taking larry bird w/ the #6 pick a year in advance of him leaving college

[jnrjr79]

There is nuance to it.

Landing the #1 pick was luck. We were #2, but Lovie came to our rescue and went for the win.

Carolina not taking Stroud/going with the coach they went with were both out of the hands of Poles. Carolina could have taken Stroud/done the coach search differently, and still we could have ended up with the 3rd pick instead of the 1st.

It was still a great trade by Poles, but getting the #1, then getting the #1 again were both out of his hands. (Although getting DJ Moore helped them lose some games for sure!)

There really isn’t nuance to it. Sure, the trade may have been even better than would be expected, but if it were merely as expected (say just a top 5 pick this year), it still would be a tremendous, tremendous return.

as expected would not have been top 5. the over/under was the #10 or 11 pick

Sure, you can look at Stroud and say “well, that would have been great,” but Young was the favorite (though not the consensus) to go 1 and who knows what the Bears have done. Stroud, too, has been regressing some this year and Houston is not as strong as expected.

i would have stuck w/ fields as well, so i can't blame poles for that. certainly can't blame him for not knowing that stroud would be way better than bryce

the most directly comparable situation is the trade-up for wentz at #2 in 2016. the cost to the eagles:

#8 overall + 1st, 2nd,3rd, 4th

caleb was a much better prospect, right? poles got the following return:

#9 overall + 1st, 2nd,2nd, DJ's contract

so...

2nd rounder plus DJ for caleb vs.
3rd and 4th rounders for wentz

did poles really fleece anyone? or does the additional return reflect the difference in the prospects? seems like pretty obviously the latter to me. perfectly fine trade under the circumstances. nothing more, nothing less. i would have take additional draft capital rather than DJ's contract, but that's me

I think you mean Bryce Young, not Caleb, so no, I’m not so sure how big a disparity there is in those prospects.

[dice]

There really isn’t nuance to it. Sure, the trade may have been even better than would be expected, but if it were merely as expected (say just a top 5 pick this year), it still would be a tremendous, tremendous return.

as expected would not have been top 5. the over/under was the #10 or 11 pick

Sure, you can look at Stroud and say “well, that would have been great,” but Young was the favorite (though not the consensus) to go 1 and who knows what the Bears have done. Stroud, too, has been regressing some this year and Houston is not as strong as expected.

i would have stuck w/ fields as well, so i can't blame poles for that. certainly can't blame him for not knowing that stroud would be way better than bryce

the most directly comparable situation is the trade-up for wentz at #2 in 2016. the cost to the eagles:

#8 overall + 1st, 2nd,3rd, 4th

caleb was a much better prospect, right? poles got the following return:

#9 overall + 1st, 2nd,2nd, DJ's contract

so...

2nd rounder plus DJ for caleb vs.
3rd and 4th rounders for wentz

did poles really fleece anyone? or does the additional return reflect the difference in the prospects? seems like pretty obviously the latter to me. perfectly fine trade under the circumstances. nothing more, nothing less. i would have take additional draft capital rather than DJ's contract, but that's me

I think you mean Bryce Young, not Caleb, so no, I’m not so sure how big a disparity there is in those prospects.

gah, you got me!

#1 pick (bryce or stroud) vs #2 pick (wentz). poles should have gotten a better return, but not substantially. so maybe he did do better than the browns did in 2016. still not a fleecing, mind you, but a perfectly good trade

[fleet]

Only way Poles goes is if he doesn’t get rid of Flus. Then they both go with a new GM coming in. No way Flus survives. They’d have to run the table and win a playoff game with CW making big strides. Daniels is part of setting the bar this high.

But that would essentially be Kevin Warren doing the exact same thing Poles just did . Right now he can say these guys were in place when I got here and I gave them every opportunity but Im gonna reset this thing and bring in my own guys . If Warren doesn't think that then next year hes firing Poles and that new GM will want to hire his own coach.

Maybe if we keep sliding Poles resigns and Cunningham takes over and they fire Flus but I dont see how accountability escapes Poles on this one. Hes in this together with Flus.

poles can say the process started w/o him and he was presented w/ 3 candidates. still, even if he felt like he couldn't bring in other candidates, it appears he chose the wrong one

Read on Twitter

[dice]

But that would essentially be Kevin Warren doing the exact same thing Poles just did . Right now he can say these guys were in place when I got here and I gave them every opportunity but Im gonna reset this thing and bring in my own guys . If Warren doesn't think that then next year hes firing Poles and that new GM will want to hire his own coach.

Maybe if we keep sliding Poles resigns and Cunningham takes over and they fire Flus but I dont see how accountability escapes Poles on this one. Hes in this together with Flus.

poles can say the process started w/o him and he was presented w/ 3 candidates. still, even if he felt like he couldn't bring in other candidates, it appears he chose the wrong one

Read on Twitter

https://www.instagram.com/thesickpodcastadamrank/reel/DCFIG6-SEAy/

[chitownsports4ever]

But that would essentially be Kevin Warren doing the exact same thing Poles just did . Right now he can say these guys were in place when I got here and I gave them every opportunity but Im gonna reset this thing and bring in my own guys . If Warren doesn't think that then next year hes firing Poles and that new GM will want to hire his own coach.

Maybe if we keep sliding Poles resigns and Cunningham takes over and they fire Flus but I dont see how accountability escapes Poles on this one. Hes in this together with Flus.

poles can say the process started w/o him and he was presented w/ 3 candidates. still, even if he felt like he couldn't bring in other candidates, it appears he chose the wrong one

Read on Twitter

Interesting

We have 9 games left if we go 8-9 is that enough to keep Flus ?

If we went 8-9 this season the bears under Poles/Flus would be 18-37 after 3 years

Personally If the ship continues to sink I would ask Poles to resign and then promote Ian Cunningham, fire Flus and then go grab Ben as a testament of how things will be different.

[Dresden]

Brad Biggs with an article about how fixing the O line will be job #1 for Poles this offseason: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/column-ryan-poles-needs-overhaul-120000461.html.

Doesn't really break any new ground, but does dispel the notion, held by some, that the O line is not a problem.

[dice]

poles can say the process started w/o him and he was presented w/ 3 candidates. still, even if he felt like he couldn't bring in other candidates, it appears he chose the wrong one

Read on Twitter

Interesting

We have 9 games left if we go 8-9 is that enough to keep Flus ?

shouldn't be. but who knows. 8-9 is the vegas expectation right now and the status quo vibe seems quite bad

[Almost Retired]

Bears will be without both starting tackles tomorrow, and Kiran is out as well. It will be Borom at one spot, and who knows at the other. Is Noah Jackson still alive?

We need tackle help and more talent there by next season. There might be some help available in the Draft. The top prospects like Kelvin Banks Jr of Texas and Will Campbell from LSU will probably be gone by the time we pick. Wyatt Milum from West Virginia might be available. Cameron Williams from Texas looks good as well. But we're going to have to use our own FRP to get tackle help. Good free agent tackles cost too much. Tristan Wirfs and Penei Sewell were extended last year at a high cost, I think @ $28 million a year. So we have to build the line with the Draft. All of our great offensive weapons are useless if we can't protect Caleb. Our O-Line is so decimated right now I'd consider starting Bagent today just to keep Caleb from injury.

[Dresden]

Bears will be without both starting tackles tomorrow, and Kiran is out as well. It will be Borom at one spot, and who knows at the other. Is Noah Jackson still alive?

We need tackle help and more talent there by next season. There might be some help available in the Draft. The top prospects like Kelvin Banks Jr of Texas and Will Campbell from LSU will probably be gone by the time we pick. Wyatt Milum from West Virginia might be available. Cameron Williams from Texas looks good as well. But we're going to have to use our own FRP to get tackle help. Good free agent tackles cost too much. Tristan Wirfs and Penei Sewell were extended last year at a high cost, I think @ $28 million a year. So we have to build the line with the Draft. All of our great offensive weapons are useless if we can't protect Caleb. Our O-Line is so decimated right now I'd consider starting Bagent today just to keep Caleb from injury.

I was hoping we would be able to use our FRP on an EDGE to compliment Sweat. But you're right, we might have to spend it on a tackle if they don't think Braxton is the long term answer. And we might need a DT as well, depending on what happens with Billings. And then there' the interior of the line, where we need a center and a guard. That's at least 4 lineman we need, and we have 3 picks in the first two rounds. Maybe Pickens will look good enough that we can wait until later rounds to take a DT. This is his big chance- I hope he's up to it.

My fear is that with Billings out, teams will just be able to run right over us the rest of the year.

[patryk7754]

I think Will Harriger needs to be the OC under Ben Johnson.

Everywhere he goes, success follows. He's currently the QBs coach on the Panthers. I think working with Dave Canales is great experience. Canales was the passing game coordinator during the "Let Russ Cook" era and was the QB coach when Geno Smith had his come back (who regressed after Canales left). Then in TB, Canales help resurrerect Baker Mayfeild. Canales and Harriger are now working with Young who has significantly improved since his benching.

Harriger was also with the Cowboys in 2023, who had a historically good offense. Was an offensive assitant with Trevor Lawrenece his rookie season. And maybe most importantly, He was will Caleb Williams at USC during his Heisman season. He's Progressed through his career pretty quickyly, which usually means you're pretty good at your job.

I think he'd be a great addition to the staff

[dougthonus]

Interesting

We have 9 games left if we go 8-9 is that enough to keep Flus ?

If we went 8-9 this season the bears under Poles/Flus would be 18-37 after 3 years

Personally If the ship continues to sink I would ask Poles to resign and then promote Ian Cunningham, fire Flus and then go grab Ben as a testament of how things will be different.

I can't imagine that a good GM would keep Flus at 8-9 given fan base sentiment. I don't think the Bears are an elite coaching staff away from being super bowl contenders this year, but watching their coaching over the past few years, it's hard to imagine that in a neutral situation that we're getting above average coaching.