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Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1501 » by emunney » Fri Nov 15, 2024 5:47 am

paulpressey25 wrote:Dame analogy. September 1997 Bucks deal Vin Baker for Terrell Brandon and Tyrone Hill. Baker at the time only in the league four years, prior three was an all star. He had massive trade value. But they knew he had the alcohol problem. Turns out sold high.

18-months later at March 1999 trade deadline, new coach Karl says we need something different here. Brandon dealt for Sam Cassell (was a large blockbuster). Team doesn’t look back, as Cassell a much better fit.

Feel like there has to be a deal out there like this for Dame. A 1 for 2 deal where we get a better fitting PG and a very good frontcourt player.


It may feel that way but I would challenge you to find one.

The problem with the analogy is that Dame is in a different category of player than Brandon was. There aren't as many players you can argue might be a lateral move or close enough. Even if you widen the net to include other positions. We're not talking about 1x all-star types here.

FVV 100% does not qualify and Eason is not enough to balance it out.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1502 » by paulpressey25 » Fri Nov 15, 2024 6:38 am

randy84 wrote:
Are you sure you have the right Bucks analogy. I seem to remember the Bucks trading Ray Allen for a defensive stopper in Gary Payton and a young prospect in Desmond Mason. Neither one were ever as good as Ray. And the reason for trading Ray....he wasn't a good fit.


Ray was 27 when dealt. Dame is 34.

We made the deal for the sole purpose of winning a title in the next 2-3 years (and placating Giannis).

Given that we don’t look anything close to a title contender, using the asset now to reposition a younger team around Giannis seems like a smart play

Do people really want to let the Dame asset evaporate so we can have a 40-45 win playoff bubble team the next two years?
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1503 » by RiotPunch » Fri Nov 15, 2024 7:17 am

Also on the record as a don't trade Dame guy, I just try to give the people what they want from time to time.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1504 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri Nov 15, 2024 12:31 pm

RiotPunch wrote:
MikeIsGood wrote:FVV absolutely blows. Is Eason and a bad first good enough? I do like Eason, but that's not super enticing IMO.

Dame isn't working for us, but

Ideally, you find a third team for FVV. I think he could possibly round into form playing off of Giannis, though. I would want at least two 1sts out of Houston as well.


Heat get: Dame
Rockets get: Butler, Livinston, Smith
Nets get: Brooks, Landale, Jeff Green, picks from Houston and Miami
Bucks get: Tari Eason, Dennis Schroder, Cam Johnson

Schroder and Johnson are playing too well and ruining Brooklyns tank. Nets and Rockets stay under the tax. Miami is now than ready to move on from Jimmy.

Eason is somehow still just a bench player for Houston, instead of getting the 34 minutes a night he deserves. He's has accumulated more VORP this year than Dame, despite playing under 23 mpg.

The Bucks biggest issue is they have 2-3 replacement level players on the floor all the time, and this deal eliminates that.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1505 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri Nov 15, 2024 12:35 pm

Dennis Schroder is having a terrific year. He's not Dame, but he can do 2 things Dame can't: he can guard PGs, and he excellent playing off ball. He's getting to play off ball a lot this year when playing with Simmons, and his best season of his career came when he played off ball in OKC.

He's matured the last 2 years, and would fit perfect with Giannis.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1506 » by soxperry » Fri Nov 15, 2024 1:39 pm

These Dame trades are going to be hilarious to look back on when Dame is going scorched earth in the playoffs again. I don't think people understand how easily we would have beat Indiana if Giannis played.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1507 » by Baddy Chuck » Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:01 pm

ShootingtheJ wrote:Dennis Schroder is having a terrific year. He's not Dame, but he can do 2 things Dame can't: he can guard PGs, and he excellent playing off ball. He's getting to play off ball a lot this year when playing with Simmons, and his best season of his career came when he played off ball in OKC.

He's matured the last 2 years, and would fit perfect with Giannis.

I understand the focus on "excellent off the ball player" will be funneled into a career 36% catch and shoot guy shooting 48% in 12 games and away from him currently having more time of possession, dribbles per touch and time per touch with worse passing stats than Dame but it was too funny to not reply with after the recent posts.

Understanding the maturing he done (FIBA Schroder's been fun) since then one would be remised if they didn't mention your usual focus on "playoff performers" and what an absolute and complete dud he's been there throughout his career, namely playing off of LeBron James recently.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1508 » by -Jragon- » Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:04 pm

emunney wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:Dame analogy. September 1997 Bucks deal Vin Baker for Terrell Brandon and Tyrone Hill. Baker at the time only in the league four years, prior three was an all star. He had massive trade value. But they knew he had the alcohol problem. Turns out sold high.

18-months later at March 1999 trade deadline, new coach Karl says we need something different here. Brandon dealt for Sam Cassell (was a large blockbuster). Team doesn’t look back, as Cassell a much better fit.

Feel like there has to be a deal out there like this for Dame. A 1 for 2 deal where we get a better fitting PG and a very good frontcourt player.


It may feel that way but I would challenge you to find one.

The problem with the analogy is that Dame is in a different category of player than Brandon was. There aren't as many players you can argue might be a lateral move or close enough. Even if you widen the net to include other positions. We're not talking about 1x all-star types here.

FVV 100% does not qualify and Eason is not enough to balance it out.


100... Dame has top 15 of all time trajectory with 1 ring and a couple more AS games... the guys mentioned above are nowhere near that.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1509 » by MikeIsGood » Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:28 pm

-Jragon- wrote:Dame has top 15 of all time trajectory with 1 ring and a couple more AS games...


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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1510 » by Baddy Chuck » Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:32 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Given that we don’t look anything close to a title contender, using the asset now to reposition a younger team around Giannis seems like a smart play

Do people really want to let the Dame asset evaporate so we can have a 40-45 win playoff bubble team the next two years?

To me the idea of trading Dame to get "younger" has always seemed so misguided. To me the point should always be to get better. Younger isn't always better. Like if ShootingTheJ thinks Tari Eason is Scottie Pippen sitting on Houston's bench, like yeah that would make us better, you want that. If you're just conceding Dame didn't work out here how we wanted so we have to take a step back and get younger (and presumably worse) with no guarantee or real plan to build around 30 year old prime Giannis other than you "get younger" then I think you've just taken another step back and probably hurt your chances to even worse than the punchers chance we have now.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1511 » by StickeeFingaz » Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:36 pm

ShootingtheJ wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:
MikeIsGood wrote:FVV absolutely blows. Is Eason and a bad first good enough? I do like Eason, but that's not super enticing IMO.

Dame isn't working for us, but

Ideally, you find a third team for FVV. I think he could possibly round into form playing off of Giannis, though. I would want at least two 1sts out of Houston as well.


Heat get: Dame
Rockets get: Butler, Livinston, Smith
Nets get: Brooks, Landale, Jeff Green, picks from Houston and Miami
Bucks get: Tari Eason, Dennis Schroder, Cam Johnson

Schroder and Johnson are playing too well and ruining Brooklyns tank. Nets and Rockets stay under the tax. Miami is now than ready to move on from Jimmy.

Eason is somehow still just a bench player for Houston, instead of getting the 34 minutes a night he deserves. He's has accumulated more VORP this year than Dame, despite playing under 23 mpg.

The Bucks biggest issue is they have 2-3 replacement level players on the floor all the time, and this deal eliminates that.


This would be the 40-45 win team that PP is pining for.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1512 » by emunney » Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:40 pm

MikeIsGood wrote:
-Jragon- wrote:Dame has top 15 of all time trajectory with 1 ring and a couple more AS games...


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Yeah that was too far. If you think about top 5 all time and start to realize how many guys are in *that* conversation...
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1513 » by MikeIsGood » Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:44 pm

emunney wrote:
MikeIsGood wrote:
-Jragon- wrote:Dame has top 15 of all time trajectory with 1 ring and a couple more AS games...


Image


Yeah that was too far. If you think about top 5 all time and start to realize how many guys are in *that* conversation...


People throw top x all-time discussion around way too easily. I'm thinking back to the controversial NBA 75 from several years back and I recall Dame barely being a part of that (and with a lot of discourse). He's no where near top 15.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1514 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:44 pm

Dennis Schroder? Fred Van Vleet? I mean, these names speak for themselves. If you guys think the championship window is officially closed and that you just need to get some rebuilding assets for Dame while you can, then fine. But then just say that, and stop gaslighting people into thinking these kinds of trades are actually building towards the goal of winning another championship in the next 2-years.

Stop doubling down on past mistakes (not cashing out on Bobby, whiffing on almost every draft pick and on-the-margins move since the championship) by compounding the talent loss issue, and stop thinking you can just "Money ball" **** in the NBA with C-level "shot-creators" off the clearance rack. Maybe you'd even have an outside shot of that working if Bud were still coach and we could scheme/cobble our way to a couple playoff round wins off of great team defense and the math game, but he's not here anymore.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1515 » by MikeIsGood » Fri Nov 15, 2024 3:15 pm

Yeah I feel like I'm somewhere in the middle, or maybe closer to Ron/em. I do not think Dame is a top-15 all-time player, untouchable, whatever, and I'm absolutely down to trade him if it can improve our team - I do think it's theoretically possible.

I'm not about to do it for Eason and a crappy pick we're just going to mess up anyways, though. We need a real package. This is a little different than if we just had one star and we were going for a full team reset - we still have Giannis, and we have to put winning players (plural) around him.

I'm still most concerned about Khris tbh. Don't know what to do at this point, either. It's **** frustrating though.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1516 » by Brewhoopfan » Fri Nov 15, 2024 3:39 pm

This site spends a lot of time talking about players who are ineffective come playoff time. Well.... it works both ways. Playoff basketball maximizes Dame's strengths and minimizes his weaknesses. Defensively, he's awful in transition, and offensively, he's not at all reliant on transition opportunities to score. Very few players are capable of giving you 30 without transition points. The playoffs are more of a half court game. Advantage Dame.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1517 » by Fotis St » Fri Nov 15, 2024 3:45 pm

Lets not forget that Horst could have traded his AJ Johnson pick for 5 seconds from the Knicks.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1518 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Nov 15, 2024 3:49 pm

Give me something like Dame and our 2031 1st for DeAaron Fox and Keon Ellis over any of these crap trades for salary filler and prospects/picks. If you truly wanna extend the window before Giannis exits his physical prime, it has to be for a younger guy who's actually already good.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1519 » by LUKE23 » Fri Nov 15, 2024 4:21 pm

Forgot who posted yesterday but the Dame/GA pairing was +11.5 with Doc last year, and we know the Dame/GA/KM trio was +17.5 for the year.

We are 4-8 but have played the Cavs/Celtics four times and probably should have won two of them. We have multiple rotation players shooting career low from 3, you have to think that at least balances somewhat.

It's way too early to bail on our core 3 offensive players to search for a better fit. We have 36 games before the trade deadline and Dame's trade value isn't going anywhere. Wait it out.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1520 » by ReddoverKobe » Fri Nov 15, 2024 4:24 pm

soxperry wrote:These Dame trades are going to be hilarious to look back on when Dame is going scorched earth in the playoffs again. I don't think people understand how easily we would have beat Indiana if Giannis played.


Except we have seen that Dame never seems to do that when Giannis is playing. I dont know what some of ya'll see in this team, its not a serious contender.

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