The newer elephant in the room: Wendell Carter Jr

[RichCollab]

WCJs issue is availablity.

Goga doesn’t do well yet when the pressure is on and was playable in the playoffs.

Hopefully he will improve in pressure moments as he gets more experience.

WCJ switch ability 1 - 5 is an insane skill.

I do have big concerns as WCJ needs to jump high and move quickly to be effective and knee and foot issues impact his game big time.

[JF5]

Playing at home was the big reason we "flipped" the series

Wendell in crucial aspects, especially in game 6 against the Cavs was able to impede Mitchell on switches and even blocked a shot.

Goga in switching situations turns into a turnstile that weakens the defensive integrity against great teams. You'll rarely ever see a game against top teams where Goga is able to stay on the court for long periods of time.

I like Wendell and he is really good at switching for a Center & he is our best post defender vs. big dudes but him and Paolo together offer no rim protection and resistance when our PoA defense is broken.

Rim protection doesn't matter in todays 5 out NBA league, where your big is consistently switched to guarding a perimeter player on the perimeter most of the time. And also 40-50 percent of possessions end with a 3 point shot which nullifies most shot blockers.

People act like it's pre-2010 where a shot blocking defensive anchor like a Ben Wallace or Dwight Howard mattered.

It's nice to have... but that big man better be also able to be offensively inclined and/or be able to have the foot speed to keep up on switches.

[Bensational]

In the 11 games Goga has started we’ve had the league’s best defense. There’s no grounds to suggest Goga is any kind of downgrade from what WCJ was giving us. I mean, you really couldn’t pick worse timing to try to make that case.

[Mad Guru]

Having too many playable bigs is one of the best problems in the NBA, and almost no other good teams have this issue.

Someone else will get hurt, and WCJ will step back in and be just fine.

He is a really good defender and can hit a three if needed, he is also on a long term tradeable contract, so if they decide to move on, they can.

[VFX]

Having too many playable bigs is one of the best problems in the NBA, and almost no other good teams have this issue.

Someone else will get hurt, and WCJ will step back in and be just fine.

He is a really good defender and can hit a three if needed, he is also on a long term tradeable contract, so if they decide to move on, they can.

I’m sure the FO feels the same way, but we all know as soon as he comes back the better defensive option that makes sense next to Paolo is going back to the third string Center for reasons… why? Because Carter is a good contract and although he gets injured a lot we have depth.

Sorry, not good enough to justify. If 4/5 of the rest of the starting lineup could hit shots more efficiently, then Carters niche wears off really fast.

[jezzerinho]

Carter is clearly more skilled than Bitadze, better footwork, better offensive range, better shooter, tireless worker inside, can bang with the big 5s and can switch. He's been playing really well pre injury, doing a lot of the little things, the unseen work. I do think that he can lack feel at times, can get caught ball-watching, can fail to read ahead. He has awareness to make himself the play finisher, but he's not so.adept at setting others up. Not selfish at all, just missing feel.

Goga struggles to match up against bigger 5s and switching. He's no outside shooting threat, doesn't have the range of finishes Moe or Carter have. In theory, he should be bad for our offensive game.

But he's got such feel, he's such a team first player, has such a knack for opening up.the game for others that he totally compensates for his lack of scoring ability by making those around him better. Everyone seems to have good playing rapport with him, esp Franz.

Not better than WCJ, but different. Not worse either. I really enjoy his playstyle.

[SOUL]

Carter is clearly more skilled than Bitadze, better footwork, better offensive range, better shooter, tireless worker inside, can bang with the big 5s and can switch. He's been playing really well pre injury, doing a lot of the little things, the unseen work. I do think that he can lack feel at times, can get caught ball-watching, can fail to read ahead. He has awareness to make himself the play finisher, but he's not so.adept at setting others up. Not selfish at all, just missing feel.

Goga struggles to match up against bigger 5s and switching. He's no outside shooting threat, doesn't have the range of finishes Moe or Carter have. In theory, he should be bad for our offensive game.

But he's got such feel, he's such a team first player, has such a knack for opening up.the game for others that he totally compensates for his lack of scoring ability by making those around him better. Everyone seems to have good playing rapport with him, esp Franz.

Not better than WCJ, but different. Not worse either. I really enjoy his playstyle.

Probably the best way to put it. I don't think there is quantifiable evidence besides people pointing to winning streaks (which, again, had Bol Bol and Fultz were in last year, Banchero out of this year, etc, and WCJ's numbers as a starter last year in terms of win percentage ended up better than what Goga was), but all that data is noisy because those Goga lineups also came at a time when we were more injured.

WCJ does a lot of things people don't notice out there that people rag on him about that doesn't show up in counting stats, which is why his interior defense numbers always look good without getting many blocks. People talk about Goga's screens, but watch any replay of Franz dancing to the rim last year and look at WCJ. Both are "solid passers, though Goga is more creative with it. WCJ's rebounding this year before his injury has been great.

But he is more mistake prone, at least on offense. Goga can get weird too at times, but there is a comfort level I feel with him that's hard to feel with WCJ. Obviously his three point shooting is great for us, but it's not like he really hits open shots, and his touch around the rim/finishing ability isn't consistent.

Goga's energy is infectious too. WCJ can get sulky and put his head down sometimes, which also always annoyed me about Vuc, because I felt like our energy was dependent upon him and the other leaders of the team during that previous team. Throwing the ball at the stanchion and hanging your head every other play got old.

[basketballRob]

I'm not sure if Wendell's ego could handle coming off the bench.

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[SOUL]

I'm not sure if Wendell's ego could handle coming off the bench.

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is this the same as Cole's famed ego not being able to handle it either (which wasn't true either)

[basketballRob]

I'm not sure if Wendell's ego could handle coming off the bench.

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is this the same as Cole's famed ego not being able to handle it either (which wasn't true either)

It was a little easier with Cole because he's looked like a borderline NBA player for the last year. Wendell is a good player when he's healthy. Wendell also just got an extension. It would be hard to just take him out of the rotation. He also sulks a lot, making me think he has a fragile ego.

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[SOUL]

I'm not sure if Wendell's ego could handle coming off the bench.

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is this the same as Cole's famed ego not being able to handle it either (which wasn't true either)

It was a little easier with Cole because he's looked like a borderline NBA player for the last year. Wendell is a good player when he's healthy. Wendell also just got an extension. It would be hard to just take him out of the rotation. He also sulks a lot, making me think he has a fragile ego.

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I mean, he doesn't deserve to be taken out of the rotation though, nor will he be. Play off the bench? Sure. I think he wouldn't put himself above chemistry. Happened last year at the start of the playoffs with Isaac.

It's not easy, but they can split PF/C between four guys for now. TDS might get squeezed a bit with Franz getting SF minutes.

Team in general are way too injured though to ever feel comfortable about trading guys right now due to logjams.

[eyriq]

The eye test and sweater vest points tell us that Goga is a much more impactful player. I attribute this to WCJ being psychologically frail. He's insecure, gets overwhelmed, and wilts in big moments. That was a running theme in game threads, he just has an inability to execute when it matters most. Goga on the other hand gets critical offensive rebounds and blocked shots because he's the Georgian Beast.

[cedric76]

It can't hurt to have good bigs

Paolo, Ji, wcj, Moe and goga

There is room for all of them

[Bergmaniac]

The eye test and sweater vest points tell us that Goga is a much more impactful player.

The impact stats this season paint a completely different picture. Wendell is way ahead in net rating and on/off rating. And that's despite being out for our easiest games (against the completely injury decimated Pels and the Wizards). He was also doing really well according to my eye test this year.

[Last Guardian]

Wendell in crucial aspects, especially in game 6 against the Cavs was able to impede Mitchell on switches and even blocked a shot.

Goga in switching situations turns into a turnstile that weakens the defensive integrity against great teams. You'll rarely ever see a game against top teams where Goga is able to stay on the court for long periods of time.

I like Wendell and he is really good at switching for a Center & he is our best post defender vs. big dudes but him and Paolo together offer no rim protection and resistance when our PoA defense is broken.

Rim protection doesn't matter in todays 5 out NBA league, where your big is consistently switched to guarding a perimeter player on the perimeter most of the time. And also 40-50 percent of possessions end with a 3 point shot which nullifies most shot blockers.

People act like it's pre-2010 where a shot blocking defensive anchor like a Ben Wallace or Dwight Howard mattered.

It's nice to have... but that big man better be also able to be offensively inclined and/or be able to have the foot speed to keep up on switches.

You'll have to provide some proof to backup this argument. Does Gobert guard every position? Porzingis? Hart or Robinson? Jarrett Allen? Turner? Sengun? A lot of the best teams play a traditional rim protecting big. If rim protection apparently doesn't matter than a whole lot of teams are doing it wrong. I don't see a whole lot of teams playing WCJ like C's, except maybe GS with Draymond and Miami with Bam. The biggest outlier is Denver with Joker, but him being the most skilled C of all time makes up for quite a bit.

WCJ is certainly unique in this way and it can be an advantage, but I don't see any statistics supporting this argument. They all say defense is better with Goga, and Magic tend to go on big winning streaks with him.

At the end of the day, JI is able to play both of these guys styles at the same time, which makes him the best choice...unfortunately he can't be trusted with huge minutes.

[Knightro]

The eye test and sweater vest points tell us that Goga is a much more impactful player. I attribute this to WCJ being psychologically frail. He's insecure, gets overwhelmed, and wilts in big moments. That was a running theme in game threads, he just has an inability to execute when it matters most. Goga on the other hand gets critical offensive rebounds and blocked shots because he's the Georgian Beast.

Or…

Wendell is unpopular among the fans on this board and thus doesn’t perform well in the popularity contests after wins.

[jezzerinho]

The eye test and sweater vest points tell us that Goga is a much more impactful player.

The impact stats this season paint a completely different picture. Wendell is way ahead in net rating and on/off rating. And that's despite being out for our easiest games (against the completely injury decimated Pels and the Wizards). He was also doing really well according to my eye test this year.

I don't think it's a straightforward answer for anybody.

When Paolo went down, you'd have thought Wendell was the perfect guy to have in the roster. And in many ways he is. Can play both 4 and 5, can help Franz replace some of the scoring threat missing, has the familiarity woth the others as a nailed on starter, overall skill level, defensive ability.

BUT

Losing both Paolo and Wendell forced Mose to move to a more European, pnr heavy game, designed on getting Franz open from where he can drive or find open teammates. In that playstyle, Goga has been more successful than I think WCJ would have been. He's a great screener and a very heads-up pnr player.

Horses for courses. I personally love what the pnr type game is doing for the players development - esp Franz and Black. If we had Wendeĺl available and playing the 5, we may well have been more iso-heavy.

It'd have been interesting to see WCJ at the 4 and Goga at the 5, playing the style we're using. We might have really found an extra scoring groove doing that. Or maybe too many cooks....

[eyriq]

The eye test and sweater vest points tell us that Goga is a much more impactful player. I attribute this to WCJ being psychologically frail. He's insecure, gets overwhelmed, and wilts in big moments. That was a running theme in game threads, he just has an inability to execute when it matters most. Goga on the other hand gets critical offensive rebounds and blocked shots because he's the Georgian Beast.

Or…

Wendell is unpopular among the fans on this board and thus doesn’t perform well in the popularity contests after wins.

I don't think so. When you compare lineups where they are swapped Goga tends to make them better. The stats and the eye test are in sync.

[The-Stallion70]

They have slightly different skillsets, Goga has really impressive timing for blocks, deflections, rebounds and seems to be a better lob target. He has some of that nose for the ball thing that Vucevic had.

Wendell is very physical, he probably even plays a bit too physical but he is supremely strong. Wendell can also spread the floor with the jumpshot which Goga does not really do.

I think that the difference between the two of them is probably closer than we realize.

[basketballRob]

I don't think Goga is better against some players like Jokic.

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