Tank World Order V (Rise of the Phoenix)

[ItsDanger]

And Jahlil Okafor at #3

The difference is we have one of the best drafting FOs in the NBA.

Ben Simmons was looking absolutely fine for #1 overall for years after the draft. Fultz was pretty close to a consensus #1 pick, if not most still would have thought he was great at 2 or 3. This entire board wanted to tank for Andrew Wiggins. The draft is unpredictable at the top and nobody is infallible.

Nobody is claiming that just getting a high pick guarantees anything. It just provides the team with best outlook moving forward. Apply your argument for lower picks. The probability of failure increases. So this statement means absolutely nothing.

Why are you insisting on this anyways in a tank thread?

[nikster]

The difference is we have one of the best drafting FOs in the NBA.

Ben Simmons was looking absolutely fine for #1 overall for years after the draft. Fultz was pretty close to a consensus #1 pick, if not most still would have thought he was great at 2 or 3. This entire board wanted to tank for Andrew Wiggins. The draft is unpredictable at the top and nobody is infallible.

Nobody is claiming that just getting a high pick guarantees anything. It just provides the team with best outlook moving forward. Apply your argument for lower picks. The probability of failure increases. So this statement means absolutely nothing.

Why are you insisting on this anyways in a tank thread?

I was responding to someone that said about 5 prospects in this coming draft aere "guarantees"

[720]

We go on a two game winning streak and all of a sudden Treadmill Nation come out the woodworks to make proclamations.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Since the team hasn't been healthy it's been hard to get an honest read on the team. I don't know if it's just a two game win streak, or just the way fans have seen this team come up just short a handful of times and maybe that has something to do with our two best players being out for most of the year.

[Naysorn]

Since the team hasn't been healthy it's been hard to get an honest read on the team. I don't know if it's just a two game win streak, or just the way fans have seen this team come up just short a handful of times and maybe that has something to do with our two best players being out for most of the year.

we went to OT with the best team in the league and were missing our 2 best players

this team is clearly not an early lottery team lol at best we're gonna be picking like 8th this year

[Brinbe]

Utah may get a W today.

Also SRS on bball ref has us 7th worst right now, so we've def been a bit unlucky (or lucky, I guess) so far.



But I agree that this is more about the east mostly being terrible than anything to do with us. The Pels should be better but have been killed by injuries and the Sixers have had an awful start but should be rising up the standings.

I think this is about where I had us, in the mix at the bottom but maybe not the absolute worst.

[Shwaguy]

I want a top 3 pick badly. But what is the cost of being bad enough to draft top 3?

Surely if we are bad enough to pick top 3 while healthy, that implies that Barnes will never be a All NBA caliber forward, that we are overrating Gradey's Potential, and that RJ's breakout with us is fraudulent?

I don't see how we are bad enough to pick top 3 without that implying that our current young core guys are all trash/Mid.

As far as rooting interests go, I would rather cheer for Scottie to play at an All NBA caliber this season and Gradey play like an efficient 17-19 a night guy at 21 years old and RJ establish himself as a borderline allstar over being bad enough to pick top 3, even if it meant picking 13th overall again.

Like if Injuries happen? I definitely want them to finish as low as possible. But If healthy it just feels like finishing in last or close to it would HAVE to mean that our current young core guys are all useless - Which I do not think is the case.

[Shwaguy]

I also feel like there's no guaranteed All NBA forward in this draft, and if they are, they will be one of the top 2 and dead last only has like a 20% shot at that.

If we could get that chance while maintaining Barnes, Gradey, RJ's long term upside and value. I'm all for it. But how would that be possible? The two seem mutually exclusive.

[Shwaguy]

The difference is we have one of the best drafting FOs in the NBA.

Ben Simmons was looking absolutely fine for #1 overall for years after the draft. Fultz was pretty close to a consensus #1 pick, if not most still would have thought he was great at 2 or 3. This entire board wanted to tank for Andrew Wiggins. The draft is unpredictable at the top and nobody is infallible.

Nobody is claiming that just getting a high pick guarantees anything. It just provides the team with best outlook moving forward. Apply your argument for lower picks. The probability of failure increases. So this statement means absolutely nothing.

Why are you insisting on this anyways in a tank thread?

But would that outlook moving forward not also be harmed, because if we are bad enough to pick that high, that means our young core is also much worse than we thought? Hard to envision an all NBA future for Scottie if he's not even good enough to lead a team out of the bottom 3 in year 4. Would also mean that RJ's breakout is fraudulent and even if he might not fit in here long term it would he could be a tremendous trade asset if his breakout IS legitimate.

I think the situation is more nuanced than we make it. It was different when we were winning/losing because of vets who weren't gonna be here long term anyways. A bottom 3 finish doesn't come without cost now. But maybe still worth. The **** lotto odds doesn't help.

[DG88]

Utah is tied with us in wins. Are you all still crying?

[Badonkadonk]

I want a top 3 pick badly. But what is the cost of being bad enough to draft top 3?

Surely if we are bad enough to pick top 3 while healthy, that implies that Barnes will never be a All NBA caliber forward, that we are overrating Gradey's Potential, and that RJ's breakout with us is fraudulent?

This is what I've been saying really since the draft. If the team is bottom 3 with the Wiz and Blazers and/or Utah and IQ/RJ/Scottie/Gradey are healthy, then the franchise has much bigger issues and should consider a much bigger sell-off. Those guys haven't even started entering their primes yet, the expectation should be improvement (especially given the developmental focus). That improvement's been obvious from all of them except IQ over the past ~18 months. If we were seeing stagnation or even regression, then you'd have to question everything.

Utah just won, hopefully this keeps the dudes praying for losses happy for at least a day

[Scase]

Ben Simmons was looking absolutely fine for #1 overall for years after the draft. Fultz was pretty close to a consensus #1 pick, if not most still would have thought he was great at 2 or 3. This entire board wanted to tank for Andrew Wiggins. The draft is unpredictable at the top and nobody is infallible.

Nobody is claiming that just getting a high pick guarantees anything. It just provides the team with best outlook moving forward. Apply your argument for lower picks. The probability of failure increases. So this statement means absolutely nothing.

Why are you insisting on this anyways in a tank thread?

But would that outlook moving forward not also be harmed, because if we are bad enough to pick that high, that means our young core is also much worse than we thought? Hard to envision an all NBA future for Scottie if he's not even good enough to lead a team out of the bottom 3 in year 4. Would also mean that RJ's breakout is fraudulent and even if he might not fit in here long term it would he could be a tremendous trade asset if his breakout IS legitimate.

I think the situation is more nuanced than we make it. It was different when we were winning/losing because of vets who weren't gonna be here long term anyways. A bottom 3 finish doesn't come without cost now. But maybe still worth. The **** lotto odds doesn't help.

Sitting or trading players resolves this issue with very little effort. The problem with this team is specifically that it isnt bad enough, nor is it good enough. It's purely in the purgatory/treadmill realm, having us not be bottom 3 isn't some indication that we are a good team, it just means we are middling, which is the worst place to ever be in the NBA.

RJ isn't as good as he was last year, and he's not as bad as he's been this year, and Scottie as an all NBA level player doesn't mean that he can lift the team to a decent record. The team has tons of flaws and holes, and being a play in team doesn't fix them. People aren't calling to tank because we are bad, they are calling to tank cause we are mediocre.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

UTAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! LETS GGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOO!!!11
F*cking WIzards UGH.

[DelAbbot]

We go on a two game winning streak and all of a sudden Treadmill Nation come out the woodworks to make proclamations.

Emboldened by their leader

[Duffman100]

We go on a two game winning streak and all of a sudden Treadmill Nation come out the woodworks to make proclamations.

Emboldened by their leader

Let me guess, somehow I'm the leader?

[Tor_Raps]

Portland, Utah and the Spurs all won. Guess they're all making the playoffs too lol.

[DG88]

What's interesting with almost 20 games played by most teams. Only 2 teams are actually tanking. The Wizards and the Jazz. Everyone else is bad due to injuries or poor play.

[Tor_Raps]

What's interesting with almost 20 games played by most teams. Only 2 teams are actually tanking. The Wizards and the Jazz. Everyone else is bad due to injuries or poor play.

And the Jazz have actually looked good ever since they put Collins back in the starting lineup. They have shown to be a .500 team the past few seasons when healthy. It's at the trade deadline where Ainge gets rid of guys to turn on the tank.

It's literally only the Wizards who have no option but to suck lol.

[SFour]

Portland, Utah and the Spurs all won. Guess they're all making the playoffs too lol.

if they were in the east....look at the Bucks they went from the bottom to the 5th seed, didn't take much.

[YogurtProducer]

What's interesting with almost 20 games played by most teams. Only 2 teams are actually tanking. The Wizards and the Jazz. Everyone else is bad due to injuries or poor play.

It’s because any competent franchise doesn’t throw away a season before it starts.

You need to at least give your guys a chance. And if 50 games in they’re 20-30 you can go well, we gotta think for the future.

But you’re gonna lose the locker room (and guys like Scottie, IQ, etc. WILL be impacted by that) if from day 1 you say “we don’t believe in you guys, sorry”.