Image ImageImage Image

Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024

Moderators: HomoSapien, Payt10, Ice Man, AshyLarrysDiaper, Tommy Udo 6 , coldfish, kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, Michael Jackson, RedBulls23

Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 29,858
And1: 9,287
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#121 » by Chi town » Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:24 am

Pat would have helped us big time that game.
meekrab
RealGM
Posts: 14,116
And1: 10,798
Joined: Dec 15, 2014

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#122 » by meekrab » Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:25 am

Not sure how switching Coby White, Zach LaVine and Josh Giddey onto Porzingis anytime he set a screen was our game plan.
Guru
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,804
And1: 819
Joined: Oct 29, 2001

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#123 » by Guru » Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:26 am

We have played many many good teams.
User avatar
DASMACKDOWN
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 30,512
And1: 15,720
Joined: Nov 01, 2001
Location: Cookin' with Derrick Rose

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#124 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:26 am

Coby is just in one of those weird stretches again.

But this time its not even the shooting. Its his decision making.

The last like 6 games have been rough. He has always been streaky but he hasnt looked like this for a while.
2weekswithpay
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,615
And1: 2,676
Joined: Dec 22, 2020
     

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#125 » by 2weekswithpay » Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:29 am

LikeMike23 wrote:
2weekswithpay wrote:
LikeMike23 wrote:The Bulls start blitzing the screen in the final minute. Absolutely, ridiculous! They should have been doing this the entire game.


They gave up a wide open corner 3 when the blitzed.

To a player, who airballed it!

I would much rather have that than Jayson Tatum or Payton Pritchard coming off screens with clean looks.


Do you think the Celtics are going to airball open 3s all game?

The first time they blitzed KP took Vuc off the dribble and got a foul. Brown got an open 3 the next time they tried it. They don't have the personnel to stop them.
2weekswithpay
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,615
And1: 2,676
Joined: Dec 22, 2020
     

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#126 » by 2weekswithpay » Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:33 am

meekrab wrote:Not sure how switching Coby White, Zach LaVine and Josh Giddey onto Porzingis anytime he set a screen was our game plan.


They ran drop coverage in the first quarter. The Celtics hit 9 3s.

Vuc can't guard stretch bigs at all, they torch him every time.
User avatar
ImSlower
Head Coach
Posts: 6,402
And1: 7,686
Joined: Jan 06, 2011
Location: STL-ish
   

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#127 » by ImSlower » Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:41 am

We're creeping closer and closer to 125 points allowed a game.
burlydee
Starter
Posts: 2,468
And1: 1,429
Joined: Jan 20, 2010

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#128 » by burlydee » Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:49 am

The Bulls are over switching. They're switching on bad picks. At some point you have to just work around and get back on your man.
Indomitable
RealGM
Posts: 26,232
And1: 6,798
Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Location: Yelzenbah!
     

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#129 » by Indomitable » Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:53 am

burlydee wrote:The Bulls are over switching. They're switching on bad picks. At some point you have to just work around and get back on your man.

We need players like Ball to help with the coordination of the team.
:banghead:
chitownsports4ever
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 22,696
And1: 4,086
Joined: Jan 30, 2002
Location: southside of chicago
       

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#130 » by chitownsports4ever » Sat Nov 30, 2024 3:56 am

2weekswithpay wrote:
meekrab wrote:Not sure how switching Coby White, Zach LaVine and Josh Giddey onto Porzingis anytime he set a screen was our game plan.


They ran drop coverage in the first quarter. The Celtics hit 9 3s.

Vuc can't guard stretch bigs at all, they torch him every time.


A lot of that came from Vooch guarding Horford leaving the Pseudo PF Zach,Zo,Giddey on Porzingas .

The problem is that the Celtics do awhole bunch of ball weaving at the top of the arc hunting mismatches when you switch and we have four guard starters who want to switch every single time no matter what so the defense is collapsing at the POA nearly every single time.

Its why Stacey was screaming just stop switching but thats hard when the only guard who has consistently fought over that screen is ZO. Skinny Porzingas is setting screens and we are acting as if its prime Shaq is setting them
Got a Gold Name Plate that says "I wish you would"
User avatar
LikeMike23
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,376
And1: 668
Joined: Mar 01, 2009
   

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#131 » by LikeMike23 » Sat Nov 30, 2024 4:02 am

2weekswithpay wrote:
LikeMike23 wrote:
2weekswithpay wrote:
They gave up a wide open corner 3 when the blitzed.

To a player, who airballed it!

I would much rather have that than Jayson Tatum or Payton Pritchard coming off screens with clean looks.


Do you think the Celtics are going to airball open 3s all game?

The first time they blitzed KP took Vuc off the dribble and got a foul. Brown got an open 3 the next time they tried it. They don't have the personnel to stop them.

I disagree. The Bulls have the personnel, but they don't have the coach!

The Bulls don't have the personnel to play a "switch everything" defense. They have to blitz, trap, and send double teams. Whatever it takes to disrupt the offense of the opposing team.

You can't let the Celtics beat you with the same play the entire game.

Also, Jaylen Brown shot 33.3% from the field. He did not have it going, so forcing him to shoot would have been a much better strategy than letting Jayson Tatum or Payton Pritchard go off.
User avatar
DuckIII
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 71,958
And1: 37,394
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
Location: On my high horse.
     

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#132 » by DuckIII » Sat Nov 30, 2024 4:41 am

I was proud of the team tonight. Really entertaining game. And I don’t think they can really play any better than that collectively. It was a superb game over all.
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
2weekswithpay
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,615
And1: 2,676
Joined: Dec 22, 2020
     

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#133 » by 2weekswithpay » Sat Nov 30, 2024 5:00 am

LikeMike23 wrote:
2weekswithpay wrote:
LikeMike23 wrote:To a player, who airballed it!

I would much rather have that than Jayson Tatum or Payton Pritchard coming off screens with clean looks.


Do you think the Celtics are going to airball open 3s all game?

The first time they blitzed KP took Vuc off the dribble and got a foul. Brown got an open 3 the next time they tried it. They don't have the personnel to stop them.

I disagree. The Bulls have the personnel, but they don't have the coach!

The Bulls don't have the personnel to play a "switch everything" defense. They have to blitz, trap, and send double teams. Whatever it takes to disrupt the offense of the opposing team.

You can't let the Celtics beat you with the same play the entire game.

Also, Jaylen Brown shot 33.3% from the field. He did not have it going, so forcing him to shoot would have been a much better strategy than letting Jayson Tatum or Payton Pritchard go off.


You need size and athleticism to blitz and trap successfully. Size/length to deny passing lanes and protect the rim and speed to recover. The Bulls don't have either.

Look at all the space KP has to work with and Vuc can't close out to him without getting beat. Horford/KP can pop into space or roll and force the Bulls' small backline to contest at the rim. Brown was 4/10 from 3. Most of his misses were midrange jumpers.

Triple M
General Manager
Posts: 9,947
And1: 3,561
Joined: Apr 30, 2005
Location: 1994 of an Alternate Universe World Seres Parade
         

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#134 » by Triple M » Sat Nov 30, 2024 6:31 am

How has Giddy looked for you guys. Im surprised by how well you guys are shooting it. Is it simply Levine being somewhat back or is your ball movement and play making better?
User avatar
LikeMike23
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,376
And1: 668
Joined: Mar 01, 2009
   

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#135 » by LikeMike23 » Sat Nov 30, 2024 6:57 am

2weekswithpay wrote:
LikeMike23 wrote:
2weekswithpay wrote:
Do you think the Celtics are going to airball open 3s all game?

The first time they blitzed KP took Vuc off the dribble and got a foul. Brown got an open 3 the next time they tried it. They don't have the personnel to stop them.

I disagree. The Bulls have the personnel, but they don't have the coach!

The Bulls don't have the personnel to play a "switch everything" defense. They have to blitz, trap, and send double teams. Whatever it takes to disrupt the offense of the opposing team.

You can't let the Celtics beat you with the same play the entire game.

Also, Jaylen Brown shot 33.3% from the field. He did not have it going, so forcing him to shoot would have been a much better strategy than letting Jayson Tatum or Payton Pritchard go off.


You need size and athleticism to blitz and trap successfully. Size/length to deny passing lanes and protect the rim and speed to recover. The Bulls don't have either.

Look at all the space KP has to work with and Vuc can't close out to him without getting beat. Horford/KP can pop into space or roll and force the Bulls' small backline to contest at the rim. Brown was 4/10 from 3. Most of his misses were midrange jumpers.


You do NOT need size to blitz successfully. Just watch the Thunder. They don't have much size, but they blitz screens with the best of them. You need speed, athleticism, and players to know their rotations. Blitzing is not about denying passing lanes. It's about denying clean looks off the screen and forcing the ball out of certain players' hands.

In the clip you posted, the blitz was successful because it forced Tatum to pass. Vucevic ran KP off the three-point line, which is what you want. The Bulls would much rather have KP trying to create off the dribble than Tatum. The problem was Ayo standing in no man's land. Ayo wasn't guarding Pritchard, and he wasn't helping Vuc. If Ayo stepped up to help Vuc, Lonzo could have rotated to Pritchard and Ayo could have rotated to Tatum. Vucevic was forced to foul because he didn't have help.

The Bulls play at the fastest pace in the league on offense, so they have the speed and athleticism to blitz successfully. The problem is coaching. Not every player knows where they're supposed to be on defense and not enough adjustments are being made during the game. An adjustment should have been made to blitz Tatum and Pritchard earlier in the game because they scored most of Boston's points, but didn't score a single point after the Bulls started blitzing at the end of the game.
User avatar
RSP83
Head Coach
Posts: 7,260
And1: 4,273
Joined: Sep 14, 2010
 

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#136 » by RSP83 » Sat Nov 30, 2024 7:42 am

We could've won the game if Pritchard didn't go crazy.
kodo
RealGM
Posts: 21,335
And1: 15,693
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Location: Northshore Burbs
 

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#137 » by kodo » Sat Nov 30, 2024 7:56 am

RSP83 wrote:We could've won the game if Pritchard didn't go crazy.


Basically what it boiled down to:
- Coby 1-7 from 3
- Pritchard 7-11 from 3

One shooter had a terrible game. One shooter had an amazing game.
Overall it was much, much closer than I expected. 4 point game with only 5 min left.

I also want to mention that Giddey that a great job on Jaylen Brown, he defended him on the majority of his shots & drives. Brown was 7-21. There were people talking about how safe it was to bet on Brown going for 34+ tonight, not even close.
User avatar
CROBulls
Rookie
Posts: 1,081
And1: 725
Joined: Jan 11, 2022
 

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#138 » by CROBulls » Sat Nov 30, 2024 9:01 am

RSP83 wrote:We could've won the game if Pritchard didn't go crazy.

Won? I dont think so. Celtics are good enough to win 10 out 10 games against teams giving 125 each night
User avatar
RSP83
Head Coach
Posts: 7,260
And1: 4,273
Joined: Sep 14, 2010
 

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#139 » by RSP83 » Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:08 am

CROBulls wrote:
RSP83 wrote:We could've won the game if Pritchard didn't go crazy.

Won? I dont think so. Celtics are good enough to win 10 out 10 games against teams giving 125 each night


True. But the Bulls was also having one of those anomaly night where Vuc was shooting like tonight (even above his already awesome standard this year), and THT was playing the reason Lakers gave the money to him instead of AC.
2weekswithpay
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,615
And1: 2,676
Joined: Dec 22, 2020
     

Re: Bulls vs Celtics 7pm CT Nov. 29th 2024 

Post#140 » by 2weekswithpay » Sat Nov 30, 2024 1:34 pm

LikeMike23 wrote:
2weekswithpay wrote:
LikeMike23 wrote:I disagree. The Bulls have the personnel, but they don't have the coach!

The Bulls don't have the personnel to play a "switch everything" defense. They have to blitz, trap, and send double teams. Whatever it takes to disrupt the offense of the opposing team.

You can't let the Celtics beat you with the same play the entire game.

Also, Jaylen Brown shot 33.3% from the field. He did not have it going, so forcing him to shoot would have been a much better strategy than letting Jayson Tatum or Payton Pritchard go off.


You need size and athleticism to blitz and trap successfully. Size/length to deny passing lanes and protect the rim and speed to recover. The Bulls don't have either.

Look at all the space KP has to work with and Vuc can't close out to him without getting beat. Horford/KP can pop into space or roll and force the Bulls' small backline to contest at the rim. Brown was 4/10 from 3. Most of his misses were midrange jumpers.


You do NOT need size to blitz successfully. Just watch the Thunder. They don't have much size, but they blitz screens with the best of them. You need speed, athleticism, and players to know their rotations. Blitzing is not about denying passing lanes. It's about denying clean looks off the screen and forcing the ball out of certain players' hands.

In the clip you posted, the blitz was successful because it forced Tatum to pass. Vucevic ran KP off the three-point line, which is what you want. The Bulls would much rather have KP trying to create off the dribble than Tatum. The problem was Ayo standing in no man's land. Ayo wasn't guarding Pritchard, and he wasn't helping Vuc. If Ayo stepped up to help Vuc, Lonzo could have rotated to Pritchard and Ayo could have rotated to Tatum. Vucevic was forced to foul because he didn't have help.

The Bulls play at the fastest pace in the league on offense, so they have the speed and athleticism to blitz successfully. The problem is coaching. Not every player knows where they're supposed to be on defense and not enough adjustments are being made during the game. An adjustment should have been made to blitz Tatum and Pritchard earlier in the game because they scored most of Boston's points, but didn't score a single point after the Bulls started blitzing at the end of the game.


You do if you're going to allow shots at the rim. I watched the Thunder. They do not blitz every screen like what you're recommending. Even when they were without a center, they switched.

Spoiler:


Example of why size/length is important. You have to make the initial pass difficult so that the defender can recover and you don't allow open runways to the basket. If you aren't sending help early you need to be able to defend at the rim. Gobert doesn't even need to set the screen to get open. Blitzing the ball leaves the defense vulnerable especially when the opponent knows it's coming. There's a reason why blitzing the ball is a last resort.

Spoiler:


The Celtics got 2 free throws because they blitzed. That possession was a failure. The goal is to get stops, if you aren't getting stops then the defense isn't working.

If Ayo steps over to help Vuc, Pritchard gets an open 3. Lonzo is in no position to close out on Pritchard. His head is turned and he stunted at KP.

Image

There is no relation between pace and athleticism. The Wizards play fast too, but I wouldn't call them athletic.

Teams don't want to blitz the Celtics for a reason.

Return to Chicago Bulls