Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

[ShootingtheJ]

Or notice how his on/off numbers suddenly became more normal when Pat got benched?

Hmmm https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612749&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1626171,1626192

Haha, it was the exact opposite if anything. But some never let facts get in the way of a good story.

It's more like Pat has gotten scapegoated bcuz he's been a neutral on/off guy 2 of the last 3 yrs, including this one. We turned things around when he was playing. And yet many act like benching him was the main difference.

Pat actually has some humility to play within himself and i.q. to do the little things. Bobby's ego makes him call for the ball more when things are going wrong & not just do the fundamentals like boxing out.

The chart wasn't the games after Patty C got benched.

[Bernman]

The chart wasn't the games after Patty C got benched.

It was for the games.

He's had a negative +/- against every respectable opponent since Pat was benched. +'es against the weak opponents. The Bucks played tougher opposition early on. You mean it's easier to play easier opposition? You don't say.

We've found another thing Pat was to blame for - Bobby getting beat by 6'5 guys for rebounds, taking dumb 20 foot shots, & not being able to protect a rim or stay in front of guys on the perimeter. Before it was injuring Dame & unmotivating Giannis.

[ShootingtheJ]

The chart wasn't the games after Patty C got benched.

It was for the games.

He's had a negative +/- against every respectable opponent since Pat was benched. +'es against the weak opponents. The Bucks played tougher opposition early on. You mean it's easier to play easier opposition? You don't say.

We've found another thing Pat was to blame for - Bobby getting beat by 6'5 guys for rebounds, taking dumb 20 foot shots, & not being able to protect a rim or stay in front of guys on the perimeter. Before it was injuring Dame & unmotivating Giannis.

Nope, that was stats for the whole season.

[Bernman]

Nope, that was stats for the whole season.

I know. That's what I said. It was for THE GAMES (this season). It's his average w/ and w/out Pat. Tells the story.

And since your arbitrary technicality of Pat just being generally benched, Bobby was in the negatives in the tougher games (3 of which we won) & positives in the easier ones. He was in the positives in the prior couple ones before Pat was benched.

Pat was objectively less of the problem. Maybe we ought to see Bobby benched, & Pat back for 10-12 minutes without Portis sabotaging him. Though it's probably going to take trading Bobby. I kind of hope they don't bench him before they do that.

[ShootingtheJ]

Nope, that was stats for the whole season.

I know. That's what I said. It was for THE GAMES (this season). It's his average w/ and w/out Pat. Tells the story.

And since your arbitrary technicality of Pat just being generally benched, Bobby was in the negatives in the tougher games (3 of which we won) & positives in the easier ones. He was in the positives in the prior couple ones before Pat was benched.

Pat was objectively less of the problem. Maybe we ought to see Bobby benched, & Pat back for 10-12 minutes without Portis sabotaging him. Though it's probably going to take trading Bobby. I kind of hope they don't bench him before they do that.

I understand that Pat has provided some ballhandling/driving/playmaking that we don't have enough of, but he's our worst defender. He can't stay in front of anyone, and he's only 6'4". Combining that with his shooting tanking, and his presence is tough to tolerate when we have better players at his position. We don't have any other bigs.

[Baddy Chuck]

Hmmm https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612749&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1626171,1626192

Haha, it was the exact opposite if anything. But some never let facts get in the way of a good story.

It's more like Pat has gotten scapegoated bcuz he's been a neutral on/off guy 2 of the last 3 yrs, including this one. We turned things around when he was playing. And yet many act like benching him was the main difference.

Pat actually has some humility to play within himself and i.q. to do the little things. Bobby's ego makes him call for the ball more when things are going wrong & not just do the fundamentals like boxing out.

The chart wasn't the games after Patty C got benched.

Pat got benched on 11/18 against Houston. The Bucks went on a 7-0 run after that. Bobby Portis was a -13.2 on/off in that time.

[BUCKnation]

I've supported Bobby, but also recognized we could get someone who would be a better fit. I think he was scapegoated a bit too much last year, but this year its fully deserved.

He's always had a use as a Giannis replacement and typically performs really well in games where Giannis sits. He's also been a reliable guy from 3 and one of the few guys that can actually get his own looks if a trash lineup is out there. While not a great defender, we've generally found ways around it.

Unfortunately, his usefulness is waning and a lot of his minutes this year have been shocking. There have been way too many games where he comes in and things just fall apart in ways that can generally be attributed to him. Doc really needs to start decreasing his minutes by letting TP and Midds take some of those minutes at the 4. He needs to have a quick leash.

[ShootingtheJ]

Bobby's been the obvious guy to deal since the Dame trade happened and we've all but exhausted all the discussion around it. At this point it's on Horst to finally pull the trigger, but one idea that I'll keep bringing up is he's maybe the one candidate on this roster that you don't necessarily have to get an immediate win-now asset back. Yes, he's a great regular season player still a cheap contract relative to his production. But those are precisely the reasons why you cash out now, not cling to his box score production until he becomes an old and overpaid, and even more of a situational playoff guy. Kings SI writer posited this trade back in October. Something worth discussing:

https://www.si.com/nba/kings/sacramento-kings-news/kings-swap-talented-rookie-bucks-big-man-mock-trade

I'd do that in an instant. I can't believe the Kings would.

Relatedly, I'd have zero interest in Murray. I've never seen it with him. Someone referred to him as poor man's Tobias Harris. That seems about right to me. And that's not a good player.

I agree, I don't believe in Murray's offense.

Carter and draft compensation is really interesting though. I think Carter would be the perfect pairing with Cade Cunningham. Jaden Ivey overlaps with Cunningham too much.

I wonder if Detroit would do Carter, draft compensation from Sacramento, and our 2031 1st, along with Patty C, for Ivey and Paul Reed? Ivey has taken a major step forward this year on both ends of the court, and is still just 22.

Could we get Detroit to throw a 2nd back, so we could deal Marjon and 2- 2nds for Dalano Banton?

Forget trying to get a 2nd back from Detroit. We can deal Trent to get an extra 2nd for the Banton deal.

Kings in: Portis
Pistons in: Devin Carter, Patty C, Bucks 2031 - 1st, Kings draft compensation
Bucks in: Jaden Ivey, Paul Reed

[Baddy Chuck]

Bucks get: Keon Ellis, Larry Nance Jr
Bucks trade: Bobby Portis, Marjon Beauchamp

Hawks get: Trey Lyles, Kings 2nd
Hawks trade: Larry Nance Jr

Kings get: Bobby Portis, Marjon Beauchamp
Kings trade: Keon Ellis, Trey Lyles, 2nd

Nance doesn't play for Atlanta who gets a second, a little money saved and a body replacement.
Keon Ellis has picked up a CD-DNP followed by 3 minutes in the Kings last two games and with the Kings sliding and desperation setting in like signing Jae Crowder I could see them making a move.
Bucks get a poa defender and a better fitting big.

[raferfenix]

Keon Ellis has picked up a CD-DNP followed by 3 minutes in the Kings last two games and with the Kings sliding and desperation setting in like signing Jae Crowder I could see them making a move.

Good flag on Keon’s clock getting slashed.

I wonder if Sacramento might insist on a better minimum guy from us than MarJon in this scenario when we can trade them Dec. 15.

Gary Trent Jr., Prince and Wright would all be at risk for losing most of their mins anyways after we’d get Keon — especially when Khris plays whenever he does.

[rayallenscalves]

Fanspo-approved trade.

Bucks out: Bobby, Pat, Marjon (and/or Livingston or future 2nd, if necessary)
Bucks in: Robert Williams, Lyles

Kings in: Bobby
Kings out: Lyles, 2nds in '25 and '26

Blazers in: Pat, Marjon, Kings 2nds
Blazers out: Williams

Bucks improve their front court rotation. Kings, who are reaching desperate stage, improve their front court rotation. Blazers get Pat (a vet and fan favorite), Marjon (a local kid) and future draft capital. And with Ayton and Clingan, probably not a lot of time available for the injury-prone Williams.

[Ron Swanson]

Will continue to defend Pat as still being a perfectly capable rotation guy when his minutes aren't tied to the hip with a lineup-sinking boat anchor. As much as I suggested people temper their expectations for Delon when he was acquired, I don't think he's this bad, but unfortunately he's become a victim of that same narrative. So let's take a look:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612749&Season=2024-25&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1626171,1626153

Shocking, I know.

[ShootingtheJ]

Bucks get: Keon Ellis, Larry Nance Jr
Bucks trade: Bobby Portis, Marjon Beauchamp

Hawks get: Trey Lyles, Kings 2nd
Hawks trade: Larry Nance Jr

Kings get: Bobby Portis, Marjon Beauchamp
Kings trade: Keon Ellis, Trey Lyles, 2nd

Nance doesn't play for Atlanta who gets a second, a little money saved and a body replacement.
Keon Ellis has picked up a CD-DNP followed by 3 minutes in the Kings last two games and with the Kings sliding and desperation setting in like signing Jae Crowder I could see them making a move.
Bucks get a poa defender and a better fitting big.

Love it, as it saves our own draft picks. Question is, will the Kings pay the tax? This puts them slightly into it.

[BigO]

I think the Bucks like where they're at right now.

In the last 15 games the Bucks are ninth in offense and defense.

I think they really like where they're at offensively.

Without KM, they have had enough offense with Giannis and Dame and having BP and Green off the bench. With KM returning and the rotation for the playoffs being severely curtailed, the need for bench offense will be reduced.

Their wish list is still going to be a switchable big. The problem is that there is nothing you can do about Dame's defense. He has to play, so the Bucks have to live with that.

So I don't expect any moves, except if they can get a switchable big defender without giving up another first rounder. They aren't going to give up Lopez, so the only other player that is valued around the league is BP.

I still want Looney. Experienced vet on a decent contract who is one of the more switchable players in the league. Then you can sit Lopez when he will be undeniably hunted in the playoffs.

[emunney]

Bobby's big negative +/- is mainly a factor of who he's subbing in for and what role he's being put in when he does sub in. He's not as good as Giannis or Brook *and* he's very poorly suited to do what's asked of either Giannis or Brook defensively. I called this out pre-season when Doc was talking about having two rim defenders on the floor when we've only got two playable rim defenders. You ask a guy who can't defend the rim to make that his main thing, what exactly should you expect to happen?

[BigO]

Bobby's big negative +/- is mainly a factor of who he's subbing in for and what role he's being put in when he does sub in. He's not as good as Giannis or Brook *and* he's very poorly suited to do what's asked of either Giannis or Brook defensively. I called this out pre-season when Doc was talking about having two rim defenders on the floor when we've only got two playable rim defenders. You ask a guy who can't defend the rim to make that his main thing, what exactly should you expect to happen?

Good post. The problem with Lopez is if the Bucks want to switch on defense, in the playoffs teams will isolate Brook and bring him out on the floor, where his value is then wasted.

There are ways defensively to make sure Lopez stays down low even in a switching defense, but it opens up other problems. Teams understand BP's strengths and weaknesses and still value him. How much they value him is to be determined.

[raferfenix]

I could more easily see the Bucks extending Looney or Larry Nance Jr. than Bobby.

Anyone think Bobby gets another contract in Milwaukee?

If his market doesn’t materialize maybe he takes on his player option. But after the multiple sweet heart deals he gave the Bucks negotiations could get ugly if we don’t want to give him a raise or lock him up long term.

[raferfenix]

Question is, will the Kings pay the tax? This puts them slightly into it.

What’s the exact number that puts the Kings in the tax?

In theory they could absorb Bobby or a smaller contract in to an open exception. But if just swapping Lyles out still triggers it that certainly comes in to the equation.

Maybe they’d need to drop salary in a Heurter trade to duck the tax to make it worth it.

If he’s on the outs either way I could see them valuing Gary Trent Jr. especially if they think he’s underutilized here.

[BigO]

I could more easily see the Bucks extending Looney or Larry Nance Jr. than Bobby.

Anyone think Bobby gets another contract in Milwaukee?

If his market doesn’t materialize maybe he takes on his player option. But after the multiple sweet heart deals he gave the Bucks negotiations could get ugly if we don’t want to give him a raise or lock him up long term.

Looney is a better rebounder and defender than Nance, which is what the Bucks could use. He's also 3 years younger (28).

The Warriors are a good defensive team, but need some offensive punch. Kerr likes BP. I don't know about the salaries matching, since Looney makes 8 million. Bucks may need to add Beauchamp.

Looney is an UFA after this season., but the Bucks may get a home town discount.

[JayMKE]

Bobby's big negative +/- is mainly a factor of who he's subbing in for and what role he's being put in when he does sub in. He's not as good as Giannis or Brook *and* he's very poorly suited to do what's asked of either Giannis or Brook defensively. I called this out pre-season when Doc was talking about having two rim defenders on the floor when we've only got two playable rim defenders. You ask a guy who can't defend the rim to make that his main thing, what exactly should you expect to happen?

Not having another rim protector behind Brook has been a peeve of mine for years