Franz Wagner Out Indefinitely with a Torn Oblique. Reevaluated in 4 Weeks.

[basketballRob]

So who would you guys elevate to the starting lineup? I think I'd go 3 guards and put AB in (even if he's been very meh lately). Tristan makes more sense positionally but we need the playmaking and AB probably has more developmental upside from the extra reps.

Was thinking the same. AB playmakes for 2 spot up shooters in Suggs and KCP while Goga is a threat inside and dell either steps out to shoot the 3 or makes the cut.

But in all likelihood Mose will go for the safe bet and just replace Franz with TDS.

I hope they go we AB over Da Silva. They need his playmaking in the starting lineup.

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[drsd]

... we need to find some kind of offense somewhere ....

Cole-sanity?


..

[drsd]

For me, I guess this is the dpeth chart, assuming Harris is still out:

Suggs/Black
Caldwell-Pope/Anthony
da Silva/Howard
Carter/Isaac
Bitadze/M-Wagner

EDIT: Orlando needs to trade Anthony for a SF or combo-forward, more than ever!

[pepe1991]

Front Office relied on two guys total to carry the offense and refused to get anyone else capable.

What now?

The whole point is that two guys shouldn’t carry an offense entirely. They should have spread out that task amongst multiple players by acquiring a point guard or just anyone off the bench that isn’t 1-2 seasons in the league. This is on the front office whether people want to admit it or not.

Prepare to suck for the next few months now.

This is ridiculous analysis... because if the Celtics lost Tatum and Brown, or the Mavs lost Luka and Kyrie those teams would be in similar position as us. No team survives without their 1-2 combo out of the lineup.

It's just bad luck that both players who don't really have any real injury history both got hit at the same time.

THIS!!!

Paolo and Franz arent injury prone players. Its just bad luck it happened at the same time. Any team right now would be in the same situations as us of their 2 top offensive star players are hit. Look at PHI without Embiid and PG as exhibit A

There is fundamental difference between 76ers / Mavs and Magic.

Banchero and Franz, unlike Embiid, George/ Kyrie -Doncic are on rookie scale contracts. Meaning, there was more than enough salary "meet" to balance roster with more diverse offensive talent.

Mavs/76ers pay premium money for their best players because they are on full max contracts with kickers, those guys make over $50M a year.
Luka in salary books for 2024-25 costs more than Wendell, Banchero, Franz, Mortiz, Suggs - combined.

Nobody on Magic makes more than $25M a year, and even person who makes $25M didn't orginally signed such deal, but had deal restructured- Isaac.


So yea, when Banchero- Franz are hurt, it's just actual value of one veteran role player ( $18M ) -hurt. When some Kyrie - Luka are hurt- well 84 out of 180M of salary is out.

Whole point short, we could have had actually solid offensive player(s) on roster ,especially ballhandlers, if Weltman didn't elect to build roster like they are Spurs twin tower, two elite players and just bunch of defensive minded bodies that can hardly do anything.

In addition, we lack ballhandling even with Paolo and Franz healthy. Without them how many players can even handle the ball?

[eyriq]

So who would you guys elevate to the starting lineup? I think I'd go 3 guards and put AB in (even if he's been very meh lately). Tristan makes more sense positionally but we need the playmaking and AB probably has more developmental upside from the extra reps.

My guess is that AB gets ramped up to > 30 mpg and > 24 usage% per game. Budding-Star and all that.

[Def Swami]

How the hell does the same injury happen to both Franz and Paolo?

Arnie Kander injecting T in our players’ obliques.

[VFX]

This is ridiculous analysis... because if the Celtics lost Tatum and Brown, or the Mavs lost Luka and Kyrie those teams would be in similar position as us. No team survives without their 1-2 combo out of the lineup.

It's just bad luck that both players who don't really have any real injury history both got hit at the same time.

THIS!!!

Paolo and Franz arent injury prone players. Its just bad luck it happened at the same time. Any team right now would be in the same situations as us of their 2 top offensive star players are hit. Look at PHI without Embiid and PG as exhibit A

Whole point short, we could have had actually solid offensive player(s) on roster ,especially ballhandlers, if Weltman didn't elect to build roster like they are Spurs twin tower, two elite players and just bunch of defensive minded bodies that can hardly do anything.

In addition, we lack ballhandling even with Paolo and Franz healthy. Without them how many players can even handle the ball?

Yep.

Not sure why this needs to be explained. Team would have been more efficient with or without both players taking 100% of the necessary offense. Just common sense. It’s not even bitching about the W-L column to injuries. It’s just effective management by allocating skill set diversity across the roster.

[three3d]

It’s funny seeing some posters here criticizing the people talking about tanking. Honest question, what is considered TAKING right now? Is it sitting here playing the roster and players we have currently? If they made a trade you can’t call that tanking , right? They likely weren’t going to make a trade before the Paolo and Franz injury and we all kinda knew that. There is no such thing as tanking with this roster anymore and if there is well who TANKED on it? You can’t criticize the people calling it what it is. If anyone tanked it was the front office and the ownership group.

[three3d]

Of all the people on the roster who need to step up right now I’m surprised a little that more isn’t being said about Jonathan Issac. He’s or best least used players who by all accounts has been healthy’ish going on two years now. If he can’t step up and step in to the starting lineup what good is he here ??? He was a luxury to have on the bench, but he has to be next man up when times get tough. He’s healthy, he’s rested, it’s time to call his number, we aren’t at the stage where we just need nice bench players.

[VFX]

Tanking talk should be in jest only. Paolo will come back and Orlando will look fine. Magic are too far ahead of schedule for any of that to make sense.

[eyriq]

It’s funny seeing some posters here criticizing the people talking about tanking. Honest question, what is considered TAKING right now? Is it sitting here playing the roster and players we have currently? If they made a trade you can’t call that tanking , right? They likely weren’t going to make a trade before the Paolo and Franz injury and we all kinda knew that. There is no such thing as tanking with this roster anymore and if there is well who TANKED on it? You can’t criticize the people calling it what it is. If anyone tanked it was the front office and the ownership group.

One way to define Tanking is when you wholesale sell away win-now players for prospects and draft capital. We are dealing with injuries to our best players. That isn't tanking.

Now, will our ten day efficiency chart start looking like a bottom left quadrant team? Possibly. At best our defense remains better than average and we stay where we normally are, in that upper left quadrant.

The offense is likely going to be worse for a bit until Paolo comes back. I personally think Franz is a defensive anchor and expect our defense to fall off too. I've said Franz is our best defender for a while now, we'll see how close to the truth that is.

We aren't tanking though, we just are a sub .500 team without our best players in all likelihood.

[three3d]

Tanking talk should be in jest only. Paolo will come back and Orlando will look fine. Magic are too far ahead of schedule for any of that to make sense.

I just don’t understand the tanking critics to be honest. I mean you can’t tank with what we have going on right now, lol I mean seriously how can you make this team any worse than it’s about to be?

[bigdogdylan5]

This is just cap nip for the most annoying fans. Take Luka and Kyrie off mavs see how they do. Take Mitchell and Garland off the cavs. Hell the only team that could lose top two players and still make play in is maybe Boston. Being mad at front office is really kinda insane…

You can take Fultz out of your sig now buddy.

“Annoying fans” that never expect anything out of their front office like paying a guy ridiculous money to fail and never play in the nba again.

Yeah. I’ll be “annoying” rather than a complacent homer with no expectations like you. Weltman loves how low the bar is for Orlando’s fans.

Thanks for making my point for me!

[three3d]

Throw JI out there 32-35 minutes per night till he loses that 50 extra pounds he doesn’t need. This is the time to see if he can do it. JI playing small forward next to WCJ and Goga might work and we can see really what he can do again.

[VFX]

This is just cap nip for the most annoying fans. Take Luka and Kyrie off mavs see how they do. Take Mitchell and Garland off the cavs. Hell the only team that could lose top two players and still make play in is maybe Boston. Being mad at front office is really kinda insane…

You can take Fultz out of your sig now buddy.

“Annoying fans” that never expect anything out of their front office like paying a guy ridiculous money to fail and never play in the nba again.

Yeah. I’ll be “annoying” rather than a complacent homer with no expectations like you. Weltman loves how low the bar is for Orlando’s fans.

Thanks for making my point for me!

And what point is that?

Your original comment was directed at anyone whose main takeaway was “oh darn that sucks” like it even means anything.

It’s not like people haven’t been complaining about how poor the offense was before either those dudes were injured. It’s been a topic of conversation well before this season.

[thelead]

How the hell does the same injury happen to both Franz and Paolo?

Arnie Kander injecting T in our players’ obliques.

Don’t know if you’re being serious or not but it is odd as hell for both to suffer the same injury.

[Brutalfacts]

Not time to panic. We play in the East, we will make the playoffs and will be stronger thanks to working through these injuries. You don’t upset a roster and by extension your future salary cap by pulling panic moves up that only undermine the franchise long term.

I look at this as an opportunity for others to step up. I think some will be surprised at the positive results.


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[yoyojw17]

Franz and Paolo are out.... that's both of our stars and now top playmakers are out. the reason they are in those valued positions for our teams is because they were given the opportunity to grow into those positions. Franz was drafted as a good 2way player. Paolo was brought in as our savior the next year and showed he has the potential to do great immediately... and this season showed superstar potential. This year... a setback by Paolo has allowed Franz to realize his greater potential. And the FO's patience has allowed them to cut their teeth and grow into what they are now. Yet... still, there is much more growth left.

The FO patience isn't by happenstance in my opinion.... they are calculated moves that have opportunities for success and failure... hopefully more success than not. The FO and Coaching see these players daily.... their training.... their progression....etc. At the end of the day, I feel like their decision is based on what they believe is a possible result on the court.... as confidence, experience, etc. continue to grow. Shoot.... that's probably why they allow them to shoot so many threes. Growth and game experience might be worth it... even if it meant losing games. I don't know. haha.... and that's the thing... none of us know.

The one thing I do know is that the team continues to outperform most of our expectations and not everything can be as simple as we think. If they are banking on Black and Jett for the future.... why put a highly paid obstacle in front of them? I doubt they are going to do that as they like the players and have the patience to let them flourish.

Our recent successes make it hard to take steps back, pump the brakes, or slow down. Especially after sputtering along for a decade.... but if the route is still there.... they are not going to deviate from their plan for quick possible fixes.... even if we "just want to"

[cedric76]

For me, I guess this is the dpeth chart, assuming Harris is still out:

Suggs/Black
Caldwell-Pope/Anthony
da Silva/Howard
Carter/Isaac
Bitadze/M-Wagner

EDIT: Orlando needs to trade Anthony for a SF or combo-forward, more than ever!

DFS

[RookieStar]

How the hell does the same injury happen to both Franz and Paolo?

Arnie Kander injecting T in our players’ obliques.

Don’t know if you’re being serious or not but it is odd as hell for both to suffer the same injury.

Yeah..my conspiracy dumb theory was that this was 2020/21... where anything happened was just blamed on covid. Sow as thinking any injury was just blamed on oblique or something lol