Thanksgiving Leftovers Draft R1 - Larry Russell vs MadNess*

[durantbird]

Here is a quick list of what you need in your writeup.

1. Specific years for each player on your team
2. Rotations and minutes for each player
3. Reasoning as to why your team will win and/or why people should vote for you.

Do not vote in this thread until both managers have submitted their writeups. Please ensure you give a rationale for your vote; votes with no explanation will not be counted.

If writeups aren't posted within 24 hours, we will vote solely based on the players they have drafted (and any rotations they have posted on their roster page).

We'll be using a AI vote when a matchup seems stuck. AI vote counts for a single vote.

**First to 3 votes advances**

[MadNESS]

PG: James Harden (37) | Jimmy Butler (11)
SG: Jimmy Butler (29) | Matisse Thybulle (19)
SF: Kawhi Leonard (39) | PJ Tucker (9)
PF: Andrei Kirilenko (32) | Kevin Love (16)
Cc: Rudy Gobert (32) | Kevin Love (16)



18’-19’ Kawhi Leonard - 18.8 FGA
17’-18’ Jimmy Butler - 15.6 FGA
04’-05’ Andrei Kirilenko - 10.2 FGA
16’-17’ Rudy Gobert - 7.7 FGA
10’-11’ Kevin Love - 14.1 FGA
22’-23’ PJ Tucker - 3.0 FGA
20’-21’ Matisse Thybulle - 3.7 FGA
22’-23’ James Harden - 14.5 FGA

Total: 87.6 | 88.0

GL LR

Defense: First and foremost, our team defense is the best in this game. We have Elite wing stoppers, and elite rim protection. Butler and Kawhi can defend any wing pairing in this draft. With AK47 and Gobert, good luck scoring at the rim. We plan to play straight up, which should be fine. LR has zero spacing. He has 3 guys who need the ball in their hands to create. Stockton needs the ball to pick and roll, ANT needs the ball to score, and GHill needs the ball period. Zero spacing. We can just play a tight zone at times and he will struggle to score. Zero Spacing. We can also cheat off of Wallace with Gobert, who can literally just patrol the paint. AK from the weakside is deadly.

Offense: A well-balanced offense with a balanced attack. There isn't much we won't be able to do. We can iso with 3 different players, we can run, we can half court. We have great shooters in Harden, Kawhi and Love. We have great players who play well without the ball in AK, Gobert, even Butler at times. Basically, we can find the mismatch and attack that. Love as a 6th man here is what does it. Malone won'tt be able to guard him on the perimeter, keeping him out of the paint. Pick your poison with my group.

[Larry_Russell]

PG: John Stockton (1994-95) 9.6
14.7ppg, 3.1rpg, 12.3apg, 2.4spg, 45% ion 2.8-3pta
MVP-8, NBA-1, Def-2, AS, #1apg

SG: Anthony Edwards (2023-24) 19.7
25.9ppg, 5.4rpg, 5.1apg, 1.3spg, 0.5bpg, 35.7% on 6.7-3pta
MVP-7, NBA-2, AS, All Defense votes received

SF: Grant Hill (1996-97) 15.7
21.5ppg, 9rpg, 7.3apg, 1.8spg, 0.6bpg
MVP-3, NBA-1, AS, 13th in All Defense voting

PF: Karl Malone (1996-97) 19.2
27.5ppg, 10rpg, 4.5apg, 1.4spg, 0.6bpg
MVP, NBA-1, Def-1, AS

C: Ben Wallace (2001-02) 6
7.6ppg, 13rpg, 1.4apg, 1.7spg, 3.5bpg
MVP-10, DPOY, NBA-3, Def-1, Best FG and ORTg of career

PG/SG: George Hill (2019-20) 6.4
9.4ppg, 3rpg, 3apg, 0.8spg, 46% on 3-3pta
6MOY-4, #1-3pt%

SF/PF: Josh Hart (2022-23) 6.8
9.8ppg, 7.8rpg, 3.8apg, 1.2spg, 37.5% on 2.2-3pta

C: Sam Perkins (1998-99) 4.2
5ppg, 3rpg, 0.5apg, 39% on 2-3pta


PG: Stockton (38) / Ge. Hill (10)
SG: Edwards (38) / Ge. Hill (10)
SF: Gr. Hill (38) / Hart (10)
PF: Malone (38) / Hart (10)
C: Wallace (38) / Perkins (10)

87.6/88


Lets respond to MadNess's points first and foremore

His defense.
He has Philly Harden on his team and he is talking about how great his defense is? Philly harden is the worst seasons of a poor defender AND Love playing 32 minutes!

By Conmparison I have the alltime leader in steals at the point of attack who NEVER tired in a game
Ant who is a hyper competetive player who prides himself on his defense
Hill who is an elite defender
Malone who is a great post defender
and Wallace, who unlike Gobert, has no weaknesses defensively and can crush his switch defense.

Matchups
Stockton on Harden
And on Jimmy
Hill on KJawhi
Mailman on AK
Wallace on Gobert


Spacing
Stockton 45% from three - 3 attempts
Edwards 36% from three - 6.7 attempts
Hill 46% from three - 3 attempts
Hart 38% from three - 2 attempts
Perkins 39% from three - 2 attempts
Malone ELITE midrange to long 2 range (26% of his shots from 16-3P feet and made a ridiculouus 53.6% of them
Hill Elite midrange shooter. (23% of his shots coming from 16-3P and making 49.8% of them)

Spacing is not an issue as there is more to spacing that taking 3 point shots (BTW, Harden and Kawhi are the only 3pt shooters starting for Ness' team but Hill and Malone are both capable and accepting of shooting midrange shots) you can argue my team doesnt take a lot of threes, but with modern rules they would as the 2 starters who didnt shoot threes were DOMINATE in the 16-3P range.

Needing the ball in their hands
Stockton only has 18% usage rate, by comparison last years Minny team Conley had 16% usage. Hardly a difference, didnt impact Edwards' Numbers
Hill - 28% Usage
Malone - 32% Usage
Edwards - 30.6 usage
Stockton - 18% Usage
Wallace - 10.5% Usage
Total Combined - 101 total

Jimmy - 25% Usage
Kawhi - 30.3%
AK47 - 21.3%
Gobert - 16.7%
Harden - 25%
Total Combined 118.3%

My guys play off the ball more than your do! as ignoring the numbers Jimmy, Kawhi, Harden and Love are all ball dominate players and Stockton, Hill and Malone are all system players.

Offensively:
My team will push the pace on misses with Wallace and Malone gobbling boards and outlet passing to Stocktong ior Hill and they will push the pace immediately. Transitional offense with Stockton and HIll both being elite and setting the table.
Hill and Edwards and Malone and Wallace are all elite at running the floor
Malone, Hill and Edwards are all elite at either backing down or facing up and attacking

Off makes I can run a pick and roll with stockton and Malone with Edwards and hill being secondary creators/attackers with Wallace in the dunkers spot. Kirilenko is a great defender but at his best being able to roam. He is going to get bullied my MVP Karl Malone in the post on slow possession.

Malone and Hill are no strangers to scoring in the paint against shotblockers having faced guys like Hakeem, Bradley, Shaq, Mourning, Johnson, Ewing, Garnett, Camby, Dikembe, Robinson, etc.



TLDR
My defense is also stellar, alltime leader in steals, and a DPOY bigman who isnt a liability on the switch adn I dont have Love or Harden on my team

My offense is DOMINATE with a goat DUO and 2 elite wingplayers, can kill you in the half court with a 90s style beating, or run you off the court with ELITE transition offense.

[Fadeaway_J]

To be honest, I'm kind of dubious about how both these teams fit together. I prefer Ness's overall talent, and I have more faith in Kawhi as a #1 option than anyone else in this series.

Vote: MadNESS

[Larry_Russell]

To be honest, I'm kind of dubious about how both these teams fit together. I prefer Ness's overall talent, and I have more faith in Kawhi as a #1 option than anyone else in this series.

Vote: MadNESS

Out of curiosity, what makes Kawhi a more legitimate first option than mvp malone?

Malone scored more, equally efficiently.

Malone scored over 25ppg for 11 straight seasons and 12 of 13 seasons, top 5 in MVP for 9 of those seasons and top 10 in MVP in all of them.

[Fadeaway_J]

To be honest, I'm kind of dubious about how both these teams fit together. I prefer Ness's overall talent, and I have more faith in Kawhi as a #1 option than anyone else in this series.

Vote: MadNESS

Out of curiosity, what makes Kawhi a more legitimate first option than mvp malone?

Malone scored more, equally efficiently.

Malone scored over 25ppg for 11 straight seasons and 12 of 13 seasons, top 5 in MVP for 9 of those seasons and top 10 in MVP in all of them.

The efficiency thing is incorrect as Kawhi has a considerable edge in TS% (which I won't harp on given era differences), but the main reason is that Kawhi's playoff scoring is much more resilient.

[Larry_Russell]

To be honest, I'm kind of dubious about how both these teams fit together. I prefer Ness's overall talent, and I have more faith in Kawhi as a #1 option than anyone else in this series.

Vote: MadNESS

Out of curiosity, what makes Kawhi a more legitimate first option than mvp malone?

Malone scored more, equally efficiently.

Malone scored over 25ppg for 11 straight seasons and 12 of 13 seasons, top 5 in MVP for 9 of those seasons and top 10 in MVP in all of them.

The efficiency thing is incorrect as Kawhi has a considerable edge in TS% (which I won't harp on given era differences), but the main reason is that Kawhi's playoff scoring is much more resilient.

Kawhi ts% 60.6
Karl ts% 60

Hardly a difference
Karl had 9 seasons over 59 ts% during his peak
Kawhi had 6.

I guess the playoffs thing though as kawhi scored 30 compared to Malones 26.5

Although per 100 playoffs in seasons chosen

Karl 35.2
Kawhi 37.5

[Fadeaway_J]

Out of curiosity, what makes Kawhi a more legitimate first option than mvp malone?

Malone scored more, equally efficiently.

Malone scored over 25ppg for 11 straight seasons and 12 of 13 seasons, top 5 in MVP for 9 of those seasons and top 10 in MVP in all of them.

The efficiency thing is incorrect as Kawhi has a considerable edge in TS% (which I won't harp on given era differences), but the main reason is that Kawhi's playoff scoring is much more resilient.

Kawhi ts% 60.6
Karl ts% 60

Hardly a difference
Karl had 9 seasons over 59 ts% during his peak
Kawhi had 6.

I guess the playoffs thing though as kawhi scored 30 compared to Malones 26.5

Although per 100 playoffs in seasons chosen

Karl 35.2
Kawhi 37.5

I was looking at career TS% since you mentioned him averaging 25 ppg for 12 of 13 seasons, MVP voting, etc.

However, TS% in the playoffs in the seasons chosen:

Karl .501
Kawhi .619

Which is in line with a consistent pattern for both players over the course of their careers.

[durantbird]

Both are great defensive teams. I'm not sure about the fit of Butler Kirilenko Gobert but same is true for Hill Malone Wallace. I think MadNess defensive identity is better with more elite defenders while the offensive side seems pretty equal, with maybe some advantage for Ness as well.

Vote MadNess

[wackbone]

Both teams have things I like and things I don't. Ultimately I prefer the functionality of Stockton-ANT-Hill-Malone.

Vote: Larry_Russell

[Dr Positivity]

Both teams have a lot of cooks in the kitchen so I think having Stockton helps in Larry's case, and he is more balanced frontcourt/backcourt. Vote Larry_Russell.

[MadNESS]

2-2

[Snakebites]

Definitely agree with the consensus- both of these teams are extremely talented but but also kind of disregarded fit when they were putting their teams together.

The Stock pick and roll is there of course but the shooting to space it out really isn't there. Overall I think I'll give it to the team I prefer defensively (I like Kawhi and Butler as a counter to Hill/Edwards) with a number one option I think can eek out close games better, and that's Kawhi. In a matchup where both teams will find defensive success by packing the paint I trust the perimeter player with the outside shot who comes up big in critical moments.

Vote Ness

[durantbird]

MadNess advances