Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[winforlose]

I think the biggest problem is Gobert. I will give Gobert his props for his defense and will say or agree that he is as good as his proponents say. Gobert's real limiting factor is on the offensive end. The way to release pressure with the two on the ball strategy is to pass to the big in the short roll. And while Gobert at times has shown some ability, saying that he is "good" at this is just not true. Teams are happy to win and play against an offense with Gobert in the short roll. To release pressure, two on the ball you need to be able to pass to the big and the big needs to be able to attack the smaller help defender at the rim and/or take 1-2 dribbles and draw that defender and hit open shooters to get the defense in rotation. The second problem with this is that our shooters are generally Jaden/Randle which teams will also live with.

The team has hitched their wagon to Gobert and so what that means to me is that we need to get shooting in the lineup. I'd like to see them trade Randle/Jaden/Pistons 1st for Brandon Ingram. Randle had success with the Pelicans in the past and from their standpoint they want to rebuild around defensive length and wings. Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, and Jaden would be a great trio for them to rebuild around and Randle would likely walk.

Ingram is what we hoped Randle would be. He is also a player in that same range as Randle who cannot be a first star. But Ingram is one of the best mid range shooters in the league and is a more capable 3 point shooter even at some volume. In addition, he's a pretty good passer for that size and you can run offense through him that starts from the perimeter. He isn't as bothered by congestion in the paint because of his length and mid range shot.

NAW, for the money, is better than Jaden and Jaden's shot -- especially with Rudy will always be limiting. This move would allow the Wolves to get more ball handling and shooting into the lineup which is crucial.

Conley
Dante
Ant
Ingram
Gobert

Naz/Dillingham/NAW off the bench. You can inject NAW for more defense if you want. I'm not sure if we would be good enough defensively but this lineup at least would help unlock Ant. I think you can find ways to find defensive role players and have a lineup that can actually function offensively.

I don't think Fox is obtainable unless the Kings really blow things up. And I think it would cost you Randle/Dillingham/Jaden.

I won't comment on a trade of KAT/Jaden for Ingram/Dante, but in a world where Dante is who he was last year and with NAW's progression it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Do me a favor. Please look at the playoff stats from the last season and then repeat that NAW will be better than Jaden for the same money. Also consider that NAW usually comes in off the bench, while Jaden starts. NAW takes over on defense for guys who have already been running, whereas Jaden takes them when they are fresher, more warmed up, and playing with their best group.

[winforlose]

Team needs to have some difficult conversations about what to do going forward. In terms of players, Mike, DDV, Randle....actually, everyone should be considered when discussing potential trades. Ant is probably the only one (by default) who shouldn't be considered just yet.

This is a throw-away season if the team is kept as-is. So the focus should turn to building chemistry with and developing some of the younger guys with Ant. They also need to have a real conversation with Ant about improving his awareness. Use the Phx series for reference as well. I felt that was his best series performance-wise and also from an awareness standpoint.

I say we consider everyone as long as it's a good trade and trade up. Towns trade was not good. Gobert was risky and controversial but not trading down (in my opinion). Although, maybe it's time to throw in the towel and start over.

I think the offensive issues are self inflicted. Jaden McDaniels is inconsistent from deep, but has an offensive upside that raises the ceiling. Finding ways to get him going down hill is essential. NAW should be playing more and should be in that corner catch and shoot. Naz needs 30+ MPG to unlock his offense. We traded away KAT because we believed that Naz could give most of what he did on offense, and that we could survive the downgrade on defense. DDV needs to change exclusively to the Beasley role and that starts with giving him a lot more off ball screens. My knee jerk reaction was to bench DDV for a while. I almost wish we could send him to Iowa for a week to do nothing but shoot 3s in rhythm. Call it a rehab assignment.

[TimberKat]

Team needs to have some difficult conversations about what to do going forward. In terms of players, Mike, DDV, Randle....actually, everyone should be considered when discussing potential trades. Ant is probably the only one (by default) who shouldn't be considered just yet.

This is a throw-away season if the team is kept as-is. So the focus should turn to building chemistry with and developing some of the younger guys with Ant. They also need to have a real conversation with Ant about improving his awareness. Use the Phx series for reference as well. I felt that was his best series performance-wise and also from an awareness standpoint.

I say we consider everyone as long as it's a good trade and trade up. Towns trade was not good. Gobert was risky and controversial but not trading down (in my opinion). Although, maybe it's time to throw in the towel and start over.

I think the offensive issues are self inflicted. Jaden McDaniels is inconsistent from deep, but has an offensive upside that raises the ceiling. Finding ways to get him going down hill is essential. NAW should be playing more and should be in that corner catch and shoot. Naz needs 30+ MPG to unlock his offense. We traded away KAT because we believed that Naz could give most of what he did on offense, and that we could survive the downgrade on defense. DDV needs to change exclusively to the Beasley role and that starts with giving him a lot more off ball screens. My knee jerk reaction was to bench DDV for a while. I almost wish we could send him to Iowa for a week to do nothing but shoot 3s in rhythm. Call it a rehab assignment.

Yes, agree. I don't think we were this bad last year without Towns. We should roll with Naz and let Randle win the 6th man award. The fact that we can't throw a few passes to Gobert to as least keep the defense honest is mind boggling.

DDV is really insurance on NAW. We didn't know NAW was going to play so well. If he beat out DDV for the spot than so he it.

[winforlose]

I say we consider everyone as long as it's a good trade and trade up. Towns trade was not good. Gobert was risky and controversial but not trading down (in my opinion). Although, maybe it's time to throw in the towel and start over.

I think the offensive issues are self inflicted. Jaden McDaniels is inconsistent from deep, but has an offensive upside that raises the ceiling. Finding ways to get him going down hill is essential. NAW should be playing more and should be in that corner catch and shoot. Naz needs 30+ MPG to unlock his offense. We traded away KAT because we believed that Naz could give most of what he did on offense, and that we could survive the downgrade on defense. DDV needs to change exclusively to the Beasley role and that starts with giving him a lot more off ball screens. My knee jerk reaction was to bench DDV for a while. I almost wish we could send him to Iowa for a week to do nothing but shoot 3s in rhythm. Call it a rehab assignment.

Yes, agree. I don't think we were this bad last year without Towns. We should roll with Naz and let Randle win the 6th man award. The fact that we can't throw a few passes to Gobert to as least keep the defense honest is mind boggling.

DDV is really insurance on NAW. We didn't know NAW was going to play so well. If he beat out DDV for the spot than so he it.

DDV has tanked his resale. We could try and move him next year, but 2 years of value deal is a lot less trade value than 3. I just wish we got the hint that he didn’t want to be here when he signed elsewhere. Worse, I wish TC paid attention to all the Nova Squad stuff and realized being the only one traded away from that to a team that doesn’t want to start him, could have consequences for his game. Who knew right

[TheZachAttack]

I think the biggest problem is Gobert. I will give Gobert his props for his defense and will say or agree that he is as good as his proponents say. Gobert's real limiting factor is on the offensive end. The way to release pressure with the two on the ball strategy is to pass to the big in the short roll. And while Gobert at times has shown some ability, saying that he is "good" at this is just not true. Teams are happy to win and play against an offense with Gobert in the short roll. To release pressure, two on the ball you need to be able to pass to the big and the big needs to be able to attack the smaller help defender at the rim and/or take 1-2 dribbles and draw that defender and hit open shooters to get the defense in rotation. The second problem with this is that our shooters are generally Jaden/Randle which teams will also live with.

The team has hitched their wagon to Gobert and so what that means to me is that we need to get shooting in the lineup. I'd like to see them trade Randle/Jaden/Pistons 1st for Brandon Ingram. Randle had success with the Pelicans in the past and from their standpoint they want to rebuild around defensive length and wings. Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, and Jaden would be a great trio for them to rebuild around and Randle would likely walk.

Ingram is what we hoped Randle would be. He is also a player in that same range as Randle who cannot be a first star. But Ingram is one of the best mid range shooters in the league and is a more capable 3 point shooter even at some volume. In addition, he's a pretty good passer for that size and you can run offense through him that starts from the perimeter. He isn't as bothered by congestion in the paint because of his length and mid range shot.

NAW, for the money, is better than Jaden and Jaden's shot -- especially with Rudy will always be limiting. This move would allow the Wolves to get more ball handling and shooting into the lineup which is crucial.

Conley
Dante
Ant
Ingram
Gobert

Naz/Dillingham/NAW off the bench. You can inject NAW for more defense if you want. I'm not sure if we would be good enough defensively but this lineup at least would help unlock Ant. I think you can find ways to find defensive role players and have a lineup that can actually function offensively.

I don't think Fox is obtainable unless the Kings really blow things up. And I think it would cost you Randle/Dillingham/Jaden.

I won't comment on a trade of KAT/Jaden for Ingram/Dante, but in a world where Dante is who he was last year and with NAW's progression it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Do me a favor. Please look at the playoff stats from the last season and then repeat that NAW will be better than Jaden for the same money. Also consider that NAW usually comes in off the bench, while Jaden starts. NAW takes over on defense for guys who have already been running, whereas Jaden takes them when they are fresher, more warmed up, and playing with their best group.

I don’t think NAW is a better player than Jaden. I don’t think Jaden and Gobert are functional together on offense. I would prefer to trade Gobert but that’s not going to happen. I think Jaden as a roller and around the rim in the dunker spot would be super awesome for him offensively. He has great touch around the rim, is super long, and has good body control. The problem is he can’t handle through traffic to get all of the way to the rim from the perimeter and beat guys or be in traffic and he’s an inconsistent shooter if he’s playing as a 3&D wing.

[Note30]

I think the biggest problem is Gobert. I will give Gobert his props for his defense and will say or agree that he is as good as his proponents say. Gobert's real limiting factor is on the offensive end. The way to release pressure with the two on the ball strategy is to pass to the big in the short roll. And while Gobert at times has shown some ability, saying that he is "good" at this is just not true. Teams are happy to win and play against an offense with Gobert in the short roll. To release pressure, two on the ball you need to be able to pass to the big and the big needs to be able to attack the smaller help defender at the rim and/or take 1-2 dribbles and draw that defender and hit open shooters to get the defense in rotation. The second problem with this is that our shooters are generally Jaden/Randle which teams will also live with.

The team has hitched their wagon to Gobert and so what that means to me is that we need to get shooting in the lineup. I'd like to see them trade Randle/Jaden/Pistons 1st for Brandon Ingram. Randle had success with the Pelicans in the past and from their standpoint they want to rebuild around defensive length and wings. Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, and Jaden would be a great trio for them to rebuild around and Randle would likely walk.

Ingram is what we hoped Randle would be. He is also a player in that same range as Randle who cannot be a first star. But Ingram is one of the best mid range shooters in the league and is a more capable 3 point shooter even at some volume. In addition, he's a pretty good passer for that size and you can run offense through him that starts from the perimeter. He isn't as bothered by congestion in the paint because of his length and mid range shot.

NAW, for the money, is better than Jaden and Jaden's shot -- especially with Rudy will always be limiting. This move would allow the Wolves to get more ball handling and shooting into the lineup which is crucial.

Conley
Dante
Ant
Ingram
Gobert

Naz/Dillingham/NAW off the bench. You can inject NAW for more defense if you want. I'm not sure if we would be good enough defensively but this lineup at least would help unlock Ant. I think you can find ways to find defensive role players and have a lineup that can actually function offensively.

I don't think Fox is obtainable unless the Kings really blow things up. And I think it would cost you Randle/Dillingham/Jaden.

I won't comment on a trade of KAT/Jaden for Ingram/Dante, but in a world where Dante is who he was last year and with NAW's progression it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Do me a favor. Please look at the playoff stats from the last season and then repeat that NAW will be better than Jaden for the same money. Also consider that NAW usually comes in off the bench, while Jaden starts. NAW takes over on defense for guys who have already been running, whereas Jaden takes them when they are fresher, more warmed up, and playing with their best group.

I don’t think NAW is a better player than Jaden. I don’t think Jaden and Gobert are functional together on offense. I would prefer to trade Gobert but that’s not going to happen. I think Jaden as a roller and around the rim in the dunker spot would be super awesome for him offensively. He has great touch around the rim, is super long, and has good body control. The problem is he can’t handle through traffic to get all of the way to the rim from the perimeter and beat guys or be in traffic and he’s an inconsistent shooter if he’s playing as a 3&D wing.

If only we had a few more years to find out who Jaden truly was going to hit the ceiling as before we gave him a $30 mil contract

[TheZachAttack]

Do me a favor. Please look at the playoff stats from the last season and then repeat that NAW will be better than Jaden for the same money. Also consider that NAW usually comes in off the bench, while Jaden starts. NAW takes over on defense for guys who have already been running, whereas Jaden takes them when they are fresher, more warmed up, and playing with their best group.

I don’t think NAW is a better player than Jaden. I don’t think Jaden and Gobert are functional together on offense. I would prefer to trade Gobert but that’s not going to happen. I think Jaden as a roller and around the rim in the dunker spot would be super awesome for him offensively. He has great touch around the rim, is super long, and has good body control. The problem is he can’t handle through traffic to get all of the way to the rim from the perimeter and beat guys or be in traffic and he’s an inconsistent shooter if he’s playing as a 3&D wing.

If only we had a few more years to find out who Jaden truly was going to hit the ceiling as before we gave him a $30 mil contract

I think Jaden can be worth his contract on a team that uses him to his strengths rather than needs him to be things that he is not. I actually don't think on either end we use him well. I like him much more in the helper role on defense and switching onto ball handlers and then a defensive strategy of funneling those players into length because I think for the most part elite ball handlers can get to their spots against anyone. Against guys like Jamal Murray who rely on jump shooting sure.

The problem is that with Gobert and with Randle and with Jaden any of these players can to some extent work but the combination of the pieces is much smaller than the sum of its parts. You talk through it and you get to a wall somewhere. Jaden is our best chance to get back other good pieces.

[winforlose]

Do me a favor. Please look at the playoff stats from the last season and then repeat that NAW will be better than Jaden for the same money. Also consider that NAW usually comes in off the bench, while Jaden starts. NAW takes over on defense for guys who have already been running, whereas Jaden takes them when they are fresher, more warmed up, and playing with their best group.

I don’t think NAW is a better player than Jaden. I don’t think Jaden and Gobert are functional together on offense. I would prefer to trade Gobert but that’s not going to happen. I think Jaden as a roller and around the rim in the dunker spot would be super awesome for him offensively. He has great touch around the rim, is super long, and has good body control. The problem is he can’t handle through traffic to get all of the way to the rim from the perimeter and beat guys or be in traffic and he’s an inconsistent shooter if he’s playing as a 3&D wing.

If only we had a few more years to find out who Jaden truly was going to hit the ceiling as before we gave him a $30 mil contract

We didn’t. He is making 23 this year, he doesn’t make 30 until his last year which 28/29 and by then the cap will have exploded. Believe it or not, Jaden is on one of the best contracts in the NBA. It is true that he has a low floor, but he has an all star ceiling. The problem is we have a coach who failed him. Finch has also failed Ant. Jaden is still in his head a lot, and has not been given the chance to develop his offense in the flow of scheme. Ant is not a team player and doesn’t know how to take that final leap from being a Harden type scorer to Curry like champion. Jaden’s contract is probably our best asset outside of Ant, and other teams will develop him into a 20 ppg all NBA defense star. The issue for us is trying to figure out how to reinvent the wheel without selling the farm.


P.S. We are too good and too individually talented to play this badly this consistently.

[Klomp]

Trading Randle for Ball and Smith wouldn't be exciting, but I think that was what we all thought about the Russell for Conley trade at the time as well. Sometimes, teams know more than us on the internet. Sometimes, they see qualities about a player that we miss because we aren't in the gyms every day.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

The Bulls have won 5 of 7, including last night in Boston. Ball's counting stats weren't great, but he was a +10 in a 9-point win.

[Klomp]

Something I just saw on Jalen Smith is his rebounding rate. He's averaging 16.1 rebounds per 100 possessions, including 4.1 offensive boards. That's higher than Rudy's current rebounding rate (15.5), and far and away past Naz (10.4) and Julius (10.0) and even more than 2023-24 KAT (12.6).

[BlacJacMac]

Something I just saw on Jalen Smith is his rebounding rate. He's averaging 16.1 rebounds per 100 possessions, including 4.1 offensive boards. That's higher than Rudy's current rebounding rate (15.5), and far and away past Naz (10.4) and Julius (10.0) and even more than 2023-24 KAT (12.6).

Right. He's a tremendous rebounder - and a legit 3pt threat. He could easily play next to Rudy or Naz.

[TheZachAttack]

Alternative idea: Randle and something for Lonzo/Lavine?

Lavine’s shooting and scoring would be great for spacing and for Ant. Lonzo is a nice buy low and helps with the ball handling and defense if he can get healthy.

And Lavine would totally bring the vibes back

[BlacJacMac]

Alternative idea: Randle and something for Lonzo/Lavine?

Lavine’s shooting and scoring would be great for spacing and for Ant. Lonzo is a nice buy low and helps with the ball handling and defense if he can get healthy.

And Lavine would totally bring the vibes back

I don't want Zach or his contract. I think he's "empty stats".

Any Chicago deal, for me, has to be Smith and Ball.

[TheZachAttack]

Alternative idea: Randle and something for Lonzo/Lavine?

Lavine’s shooting and scoring would be great for spacing and for Ant. Lonzo is a nice buy low and helps with the ball handling and defense if he can get healthy.

And Lavine would totally bring the vibes back

I don't want Zach or his contract. I think he's "empty stats".

Any Chicago deal, for me, has to be Smith and Ball.

Impossible for mid-20 point scoring on 57% from 2 - 43-44% from 3 and 81% from the FT line to be empty stats. Lavine can get to anywhere on the floor and score from all 3 levels and score either on or off ball. This is exactly what the Wolves need. Empty stats is high PPG on middling efficiency/high volume for a bad team.

[BlacJacMac]

Alternative idea: Randle and something for Lonzo/Lavine?

Lavine’s shooting and scoring would be great for spacing and for Ant. Lonzo is a nice buy low and helps with the ball handling and defense if he can get healthy.

And Lavine would totally bring the vibes back

I don't want Zach or his contract. I think he's "empty stats".

Any Chicago deal, for me, has to be Smith and Ball.

Impossible for mid-20 point scoring on 57% from 2 - 43-44% from 3 and 81% from the FT line to be empty stats. Lavine can get to anywhere on the floor and score from all 3 levels and score either on or off ball. This is exactly what the Wolves need. Empty stats is high PPG on middling efficiency/high volume for a bad team.

If he was all that, they would've already traded him. But they can't find a buyer - despite them wanting to move him and Zach wanting out.

[TheZachAttack]

I don't want Zach or his contract. I think he's "empty stats".

Any Chicago deal, for me, has to be Smith and Ball.

Impossible for mid-20 point scoring on 57% from 2 - 43-44% from 3 and 81% from the FT line to be empty stats. Lavine can get to anywhere on the floor and score from all 3 levels and score either on or off ball. This is exactly what the Wolves need. Empty stats is high PPG on middling efficiency/high volume for a bad team.

If he was all that, they would've already traded him. But they can't find a buyer - despite them wanting to move him and Zach wanting out.

I think that's mostly a function of an ownership team that was trying to put a contender together and make the playoffs despite a lack of talent and then Lavine's injury last year really tanking his value and then leading to uncertainty this season. Lavine is also another one of those weird players where his production on the court is worth more than you're likely going to get for him in a trade offer because he's in that tier of player and so it's hard to move him. You need to, except for in unique situations, be willing to accept a less talented player in return which is hard to do because teams don't want to be the ones trading the best player value wise in the deal. In addition, at his age I don't see why a team that isn't a playoff team would want him.

[Note30]

I don’t think NAW is a better player than Jaden. I don’t think Jaden and Gobert are functional together on offense. I would prefer to trade Gobert but that’s not going to happen. I think Jaden as a roller and around the rim in the dunker spot would be super awesome for him offensively. He has great touch around the rim, is super long, and has good body control. The problem is he can’t handle through traffic to get all of the way to the rim from the perimeter and beat guys or be in traffic and he’s an inconsistent shooter if he’s playing as a 3&D wing.

If only we had a few more years to find out who Jaden truly was going to hit the ceiling as before we gave him a $30 mil contract

We didn’t. He is making 23 this year, he doesn’t make 30 until his last year which 28/29 and by then the cap will have exploded. Believe it or not, Jaden is on one of the best contracts in the NBA. It is true that he has a low floor, but he has an all star ceiling. The problem is we have a coach who failed him. Finch has also failed Ant. Jaden is still in his head a lot, and has not been given the chance to develop his offense in the flow of scheme. Ant is not a team player and doesn’t know how to take that final leap from being a Harden type scorer to Curry like champion. Jaden’s contract is probably our best asset outside of Ant, and other teams will develop him into a 20 ppg all NBA defense star. The issue for us is trying to figure out how to reinvent the wheel without selling the farm.


P.S. We are too good and too individually talented to play this badly this consistently.

No one said to hand him this contract. We could and should have just let him hit RFA and matched worse case or conducted a sign and trade for another player that we knew more about.

No way someone was going to offer Jaden this contract and if they were I'd be happy for them to take it, because he's clearly not worth his price tag atleast on this team.

I don't know if that's true. He definitely had potential, but his handle is so tight and he thinks too much when he gets the ball, which are huge mental and skill problems. It's possible that he's doesn't have the body or hand eye coordination to make it better as well. His BBIQ is also pretty low. It's really hard to make him better at this point. I think we also saw flashes of what he could be but he had to be setup super well.

It doesn't help that the has to really create his own shot. With Gobert and Randle hogging the paint there's no lanes. The same thing Ant complained about last night btw.

Our current bigs clog the lane way too much. He needed a Rubio esque point guard playing 5 out to be able to see things to point where he's effective. He's a tall guy and there isn't much spacing on our team especially considering we traded our best spacer and the guy who was supposed to do that is pouting on the bench.

If you want to have Gobert and another big you have to have a guy who can super effectively create his own shot on the perimeter or have a PG who can orchestrate things. We have neither.

This is a problem that predates the KAT trade.

[Note30]

Alternative idea: Randle and something for Lonzo/Lavine?

Lavine’s shooting and scoring would be great for spacing and for Ant. Lonzo is a nice buy low and helps with the ball handling and defense if he can get healthy.

And Lavine would totally bring the vibes back

I don't want Zach or his contract. I think he's "empty stats".

Any Chicago deal, for me, has to be Smith and Ball.

Impossible for mid-20 point scoring on 57% from 2 - 43-44% from 3 and 81% from the FT line to be empty stats. Lavine can get to anywhere on the floor and score from all 3 levels and score either on or off ball. This is exactly what the Wolves need. Empty stats is high PPG on middling efficiency/high volume for a bad team.

We need a 4. Our defense would be horrid with Zach on the floor. I loved the guy when he was here and honestly that post Love pre Thibs era was one of my favorite times as a Wolves fan (just like post Jimmy/pre-TC) because we could have done and been so much if we had just made the right moves, but that time is gone now.

I don't doubt his talent (he's lights out) but he's also injury prone. Plus that ship kinda sailed when Thibs packed him and sent him to Chicago to begin with.

[TheZachAttack]

I don't want Zach or his contract. I think he's "empty stats".

Any Chicago deal, for me, has to be Smith and Ball.

Impossible for mid-20 point scoring on 57% from 2 - 43-44% from 3 and 81% from the FT line to be empty stats. Lavine can get to anywhere on the floor and score from all 3 levels and score either on or off ball. This is exactly what the Wolves need. Empty stats is high PPG on middling efficiency/high volume for a bad team.

We need a 4. Our defense would be horrid with Zach on the floor. I loved the guy when he was here and honestly that post Love pre Thibs era was one of my favorite times as a Wolves fan (just like post Jimmy/pre-TC) because we could have done and been so much if we had just made the right moves, but that time is gone now.

I don't doubt his talent (he's lights out) but he's also injury prone. Plus that ship kinda sailed when Thibs packed him and sent him to Chicago to begin with.

I don't disagree in needing a 4, although I think in some ways Jaden would play better offensively as a 4 (especially without Gobert on the floor) and Naz can play the 4. I think that a lineup with Jaden or NAW and Gobert should be able to be "good" defensively no matter who else is on the floor. And I will gladly take being worse defensively if it means we can actually operate a functional offense and let Ant develop on that side of the ball. We've invested enough into one-way defensive players that if we don't have enough on that end to cover for some defensive holes then those defensive pieces are not worth their weight.

If a player is that good defensively he shouldn't need the entire roster to be great defensively to make an impact. It's like on the Vikings, sure Cousins was a great QB but he needed the perfect offensive line, the perfect structure, and great weapons to play well.

More than anything else, we need ball-handling, creation, and shooting. Full stop. And without ball handling, creation, and shooting you cannot win against good teams. We can figure out how to add the right defensive role players. We can't scale role players and non-shooters and non-creators into creation and shooting roles. Playing up in creation and ball-handling is what's causing this team to play badly. And not enough shooting and creation is what causes the spacing to be bad. If we can't fix this, everything else is a moot point.

[winforlose]

If only we had a few more years to find out who Jaden truly was going to hit the ceiling as before we gave him a $30 mil contract

We didn’t. He is making 23 this year, he doesn’t make 30 until his last year which 28/29 and by then the cap will have exploded. Believe it or not, Jaden is on one of the best contracts in the NBA. It is true that he has a low floor, but he has an all star ceiling. The problem is we have a coach who failed him. Finch has also failed Ant. Jaden is still in his head a lot, and has not been given the chance to develop his offense in the flow of scheme. Ant is not a team player and doesn’t know how to take that final leap from being a Harden type scorer to Curry like champion. Jaden’s contract is probably our best asset outside of Ant, and other teams will develop him into a 20 ppg all NBA defense star. The issue for us is trying to figure out how to reinvent the wheel without selling the farm.


P.S. We are too good and too individually talented to play this badly this consistently.

No one said to hand him this contract. We could and should have just let him hit RFA and matched worse case or conducted a sign and trade for another player that we knew more about.

No way someone was going to offer Jaden this contract and if they were I'd be happy for them to take it, because he's clearly not worth his price tag atleast on this team.

I don't know if that's true. He definitely had potential, but his handle is so tight and he thinks too much when he gets the ball, which are huge mental and skill problems. It's possible that he's doesn't have the body or hand eye coordination to make it better as well. His BBIQ is also pretty low. It's really hard to make him better at this point. I think we also saw flashes of what he could be but he had to be setup super well.

It doesn't help that the has to really create his own shot. With Gobert and Randle hogging the paint there's no lanes. The same thing Ant complained about last night btw.

Our current bigs clog the lane way too much. He needed a Rubio esque point guard playing 5 out to be able to see things to point where he's effective. He's a tall guy and there isn't much spacing on our team especially considering we traded our best spacer and the guy who was supposed to do that is pouting on the bench.

If you want to have Gobert and another big you have to have a guy who can super effectively create his own shot on the perimeter or have a PG who can orchestrate things. We have neither.

This is a problem that predates the KAT trade.

1. Jaden McDaniels made all NBA defense last year (2nd team,) and was 23 at the time. That alone justifies real money. Add his size and the fact that he is on of the best non center shot blockers in the NBA, and that justifies money. Jaden had a season shooting quite well from the corners before regressing last year (after getting the contract.) Jaden has dropped 20 plus in multiple playoff games. He is also 24 years old and not yet in his prime. This deal was a steal. Even with cap smoothing in 3-4 years it will be the best contract in the NBA (with few if any exceptions.)

2. Consistency is the key to an NBA career. Jaden is inconsistent. Yet, his flashes of elite offensive potential demand coaching. It demands play designs to feature and get Jaden going. It demands a greater role in the offense than stand in the corner and shoot 3s. I just saw something on one of these threads that says Jaden has the best floater game on the team. Some of his slow development is on him, but some is on the team, and we need to fix that.

3. Jaden and Rudy playing together is only an issue when there is no elite scorer with them. You cannot run a lineup without Ant, Naz, or Randle if DDV is playing like this. NAW is someone who like Jaden can score in bunches but doesn’t typically create for himself. Dilly is not good enough at creating for anyone to be an offensive mainstay right now. In other words Dilly also needs that elite scorer to take pressure of him. That is why a lineup without one of the big 3 featuring Dilly went -15 in under 3 minutes and the game was lost.