what about Finch's rotation?

[Klomp]

The way I see it right now, our team has three core lineups within our rotation:

Starters: Conley / Edwards / McDaniels / Randle / Gobert
Lineup 2: Conley / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Reid / Gobert
Lineup 3: Edwards / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Randle / Reid

I know we are coming off a high from a blowout win against a young and injured Hornets team, but I honestly love that rotation right there. Three distinct playing styles. Three groups that are growing more confident with each other, and playing better together with every game. There are obviously more groups that will see time over the course of an 82-game season and possibly into the postseason, but that is the core right there.

That's honestly a playoff rotation right there. Let's be honest with ourselves, we really don't want to see Ingles, Dillingham or Minott in a playoff rotation. If we do, I don't think we will have the level of team success that a lot of fans are hoping for.

An 8-man rotation over the course of a 48-minute game is 30 minutes per player. That's a more than reasonable expectation for that group of eight players. Some will play more, some will play less, but it's not an unrealistic ask for any of those 8 individuals to play 30 minutes.

[frankenwolf]

The way I see it right now, our team has three core lineups within our rotation:

Starters: Conley / Edwards / McDaniels / Randle / Gobert
Lineup 2: Conley / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Reid / Gobert
Lineup 3: Edwards / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Randle / Reid

I know we are coming off a high from a blowout win against a young and injured Hornets team, but I honestly love that rotation right there. Three distinct playing styles. Three groups that are growing more confident with each other, and playing better together with every game. There are obviously more groups that will see time over the course of an 82-game season and possibly into the postseason, but that is the core right there.

That's honestly a playoff rotation right there. Let's be honest with ourselves, we really don't want to see Ingles, Dillingham or Minott in a playoff rotation. If we do, I don't think we will have the level of team success that a lot of fans are hoping for.

An 8-man rotation over the course of a 48-minute game is 30 minutes per player. That's a more than reasonable expectation for that group of eight players. Some will play more, some will play less, but it's not an unrealistic ask for any of those 8 individuals to play 30 minutes.

The only item I question is playing bite-bite 30 MPG. Otherwise, I think it is acceptable to play them 30, but I don't think I would go over 30 with Rudy. The others will work their way into play time during the season.

[Klomp]

The way I see it right now, our team has three core lineups within our rotation:

Starters: Conley / Edwards / McDaniels / Randle / Gobert
Lineup 2: Conley / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Reid / Gobert
Lineup 3: Edwards / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Randle / Reid

I know we are coming off a high from a blowout win against a young and injured Hornets team, but I honestly love that rotation right there. Three distinct playing styles. Three groups that are growing more confident with each other, and playing better together with every game. There are obviously more groups that will see time over the course of an 82-game season and possibly into the postseason, but that is the core right there.

That's honestly a playoff rotation right there. Let's be honest with ourselves, we really don't want to see Ingles, Dillingham or Minott in a playoff rotation. If we do, I don't think we will have the level of team success that a lot of fans are hoping for.

An 8-man rotation over the course of a 48-minute game is 30 minutes per player. That's a more than reasonable expectation for that group of eight players. Some will play more, some will play less, but it's not an unrealistic ask for any of those 8 individuals to play 30 minutes.

The only item I question is playing bite-bite 30 MPG. Otherwise, I think it is acceptable to play them 30, but I don't think I would go over 30 with Rudy. The others will work their way into play time during the season.

Like I said, it's an average. I'm not saying that they all need to play 30 mpg, but they all have the capability to handle playing 30 mpg.

Mike will play less, Ant will play more. It will even itself out.

[Klomp]

The way I see it right now, our team has three core lineups within our rotation:

Starters: Conley / Edwards / McDaniels / Randle / Gobert
Lineup 2: Conley / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Reid / Gobert
Lineup 3: Edwards / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Randle / Reid

I know we are coming off a high from a blowout win against a young and injured Hornets team, but I honestly love that rotation right there. Three distinct playing styles. Three groups that are growing more confident with each other, and playing better together with every game. There are obviously more groups that will see time over the course of an 82-game season and possibly into the postseason, but that is the core right there.

That's honestly a playoff rotation right there. Let's be honest with ourselves, we really don't want to see Ingles, Dillingham or Minott in a playoff rotation. If we do, I don't think we will have the level of team success that a lot of fans are hoping for.

An 8-man rotation over the course of a 48-minute game is 30 minutes per player. That's a more than reasonable expectation for that group of eight players. Some will play more, some will play less, but it's not an unrealistic ask for any of those 8 individuals to play 30 minutes.

Stats to back up my post:

Read on Twitter

We need to get the starters playing better, for sure. But those other two lineups in my rotation above are dynamite!

[m2002brian]

The way I see it right now, our team has three core lineups within our rotation:

Starters: Conley / Edwards / McDaniels / Randle / Gobert
Lineup 2: Conley / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Reid / Gobert
Lineup 3: Edwards / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Randle / Reid

I know we are coming off a high from a blowout win against a young and injured Hornets team, but I honestly love that rotation right there. Three distinct playing styles. Three groups that are growing more confident with each other, and playing better together with every game. There are obviously more groups that will see time over the course of an 82-game season and possibly into the postseason, but that is the core right there.

That's honestly a playoff rotation right there. Let's be honest with ourselves, we really don't want to see Ingles, Dillingham or Minott in a playoff rotation. If we do, I don't think we will have the level of team success that a lot of fans are hoping for.

An 8-man rotation over the course of a 48-minute game is 30 minutes per player. That's a more than reasonable expectation for that group of eight players. Some will play more, some will play less, but it's not an unrealistic ask for any of those 8 individuals to play 30 minutes.

Stats to back up my post:

Read on Twitter

We need to get the starters playing better, for sure. But those other two lineups in my rotation above are dynamite!

Common theme in those other three lineups (no pun intended) DDV, Naz, NAW

[shangrila]

The way I see it right now, our team has three core lineups within our rotation:

Starters: Conley / Edwards / McDaniels / Randle / Gobert
Lineup 2: Conley / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Reid / Gobert
Lineup 3: Edwards / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Randle / Reid

I know we are coming off a high from a blowout win against a young and injured Hornets team, but I honestly love that rotation right there. Three distinct playing styles. Three groups that are growing more confident with each other, and playing better together with every game. There are obviously more groups that will see time over the course of an 82-game season and possibly into the postseason, but that is the core right there.

That's honestly a playoff rotation right there. Let's be honest with ourselves, we really don't want to see Ingles, Dillingham or Minott in a playoff rotation. If we do, I don't think we will have the level of team success that a lot of fans are hoping for.

An 8-man rotation over the course of a 48-minute game is 30 minutes per player. That's a more than reasonable expectation for that group of eight players. Some will play more, some will play less, but it's not an unrealistic ask for any of those 8 individuals to play 30 minutes.

Stats to back up my post:

Read on Twitter

We need to get the starters playing better, for sure. But those other two lineups in my rotation above are dynamite!

Common theme in those other three lineups (no pun intended) DDV, Naz, NAW

It's not a huge surprise, the starters have been a mess so far.

I do find it interesting that replacing Conley with Ant is a 40pt net increase and I wonder how that says more about, especially in light of Conley's early struggles.

[Klomp]

Common theme in those other three lineups (no pun intended) DDV, Naz, NAW

Sure...why is that a bad thing?

A lot of great teams have had more productive lineups once you get into the bench unit.

GSW with Iguodala
DAL with Terry
CHI with Kukoc
LAL with Odom
SAS with Ginobili
Last year's Celtics
DEN with Bruce Brown
MIL with Bobby Portis
TOR with Fred VanVleet and OG Anunoby

I want us as Timberwolves fans to stop seeing a great bench unit as an indictment against the starters.

[m2002brian]

It’s not a bad thing. Not sure why that’s being assumed.

If I was going to be in the slightest negative, it would be that McDaniels isn’t in any of those lineups, while the rest of the starters are. He’s been beyond bad.

[Klomp]

It’s not a bad thing. Not sure why that’s being assumed.

If I was going to be in the slightest negative, it would be that McDaniels isn’t in any of those lineups, while the rest of the starters are. He’s been beyond bad.

I guess it just feels assumed, I'm even guilty of it myself at times.

I think it's easy to get it in our heads that the starting five needs to be our best lineup and our most used lineup, when that might not always be the case. And it's not even necessarily an indication that a change needs to be made.

[thinktank]

The way I see it right now, our team has three core lineups within our rotation:

Starters: Conley / Edwards / McDaniels / Randle / Gobert
Lineup 2: Conley / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Reid / Gobert
Lineup 3: Edwards / DiVincenzo / Alexander-Walker / Randle / Reid

I know we are coming off a high from a blowout win against a young and injured Hornets team, but I honestly love that rotation right there. Three distinct playing styles. Three groups that are growing more confident with each other, and playing better together with every game. There are obviously more groups that will see time over the course of an 82-game season and possibly into the postseason, but that is the core right there.

That's honestly a playoff rotation right there. Let's be honest with ourselves, we really don't want to see Ingles, Dillingham or Minott in a playoff rotation. If we do, I don't think we will have the level of team success that a lot of fans are hoping for.

An 8-man rotation over the course of a 48-minute game is 30 minutes per player. That's a more than reasonable expectation for that group of eight players. Some will play more, some will play less, but it's not an unrealistic ask for any of those 8 individuals to play 30 minutes.

Stats to back up my post:

Read on Twitter

We need to get the starters playing better, for sure. But those other two lineups in my rotation above are dynamite!

Common theme in those other three lineups (no pun intended) DDV, Naz, NAW

And NO MCDANIELS

[minimus]

Stats to back up my post:

Read on Twitter

We need to get the starters playing better, for sure. But those other two lineups in my rotation above are dynamite!

Common theme in those other three lineups (no pun intended) DDV, Naz, NAW

And NO MCDANIELS

Imagine what happens when McDaniels plays well again.

[DaMplsKid]

I have no issues with the rotation.

The issue has been our starters learning to play together. Bench guys can adapt easier cause they are used to playing with multiple different line ups. Starters have a lot harder time figuring out there roll.

Jaden and Mike have been struggling but to be honest I am putting this on Mike. He has been around long enough to know how to play with any type of player. He needs to get his pick and roll and spot up game going. Jaden I don't expect much out of him on the offensive end.

I do think we need to start running plays for Jaden to start the game. Not open 3's but get him going to the basket and some easy buckets. That's a lot harder said then done when you have two guys who can't stretch the floor (Rudy/Randle) and a playmaker who is still learning to pass the ball with ANT.

[LSWF]

I love Finch but he is very stubborn to change when ho has his mind made up. Right now he is determined to get this starting 8 to gell together. It has a long way to go. I, personally would sit a guy or two for a game to send a message but Finch probably won't.

Everybody seems to love Finch, but he's not getting what he needs from the current rotation. When a team loaded with talent underperforms, at some point the coach is generally held accountable. I'm not to the fire Finch stage, but with the schedule looking kind of favorable the net two weeks, if we get poor results, I could get there.

I don't see our current struggles as having much to do with rotation. If we can't win the Ant/Randle minutes, no amount of lineups tweaks is going to save us. The core of our team identity needs to be functional before you can optimize the rotation around it. Otherwise we're just putting bandaids on a gaping wound.

Our bench lineups are currently keeping us alive.

In terms of Conley and Ingles... they're old enough it's certainly possible they're "washed", but it's also not uncommon for older players to take longer to rev it up. It's way too soon to write them off. Ingles is already out of the rotation though.

I personally get why Finch is desperately clinging to a rigid 8-man rotation. Until he figures out how to optimize lineups with our best players, no amount of Minnott or Dilly is moving the needle. Those young guys need a stable platform to stand out and we haven't established that yet.

I don't think it's time yet to scrutinize rotations. Finch needs to figure out how to optimize Ant, Randle, and Jaden McDaniels.

Who was it that said, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity"? We drafted two first rounders and don't play them. If Minott, Miller, TSJ, and Dillingham are busts we need to find that out. Like I said in my original post, this rotation is going nowhere.

[Guest84]

Everybody seems to love Finch, but he's not getting what he needs from the current rotation. When a team loaded with talent underperforms, at some point the coach is generally held accountable. I'm not to the fire Finch stage, but with the schedule looking kind of favorable the net two weeks, if we get poor results, I could get there.

I don't see our current struggles as having much to do with rotation. If we can't win the Ant/Randle minutes, no amount of lineups tweaks is going to save us. The core of our team identity needs to be functional before you can optimize the rotation around it. Otherwise we're just putting bandaids on a gaping wound.

Our bench lineups are currently keeping us alive.

In terms of Conley and Ingles... they're old enough it's certainly possible they're "washed", but it's also not uncommon for older players to take longer to rev it up. It's way too soon to write them off. Ingles is already out of the rotation though.

I personally get why Finch is desperately clinging to a rigid 8-man rotation. Until he figures out how to optimize lineups with our best players, no amount of Minnott or Dilly is moving the needle. Those young guys need a stable platform to stand out and we haven't established that yet.

I don't think it's time yet to scrutinize rotations. Finch needs to figure out how to optimize Ant, Randle, and Jaden McDaniels.

Who was it that said, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity"? We drafted two first rounders and don't play them. If Minott, Miller, TSJ, and Dillingham are busts we need to find that out. Like I said in my original post, this rotation is going nowhere.

The “return” of the trade has hurt this team in more ways than one. As a result, they’re trying to fit a square peg inside of a round hole.

We've got a bunch of young guys that we have no idea if they’re real players or not. Either the staff knows some of them aren’t any good or it’s Finch just being a Thibs style coach.

Integrate the young guys so we can see how they do. But you have to play them with the core guys and not just in the last couple minutes.

[winforlose]

1. Mike Conley has a nagging wrist issue, a shooting slump (partially related to the wrist,) and seems to have hit the age wall. Dillingham meanwhile is a massive negative player (I need to double check but I think -44 on the season,) and simply cannot play productive basketball at this point. NAW lacks a PGs handle and DDV despite having a PG handle lacks everything else a PG needs. We are deficient at the PG.

2. Rudy is our only C. When he refuses to play to the touch (see Steph torching us from deep, that means any PNP will always work absent a defensive scheme adjustment. When Rudy is out, we have no PNR defense. Our C play is deficient.

3. Naz is the clearly superior fit as PF, but is on the bench most of the key moments of the game. JR does not rotate, does not know how to pass or play create with these guys, and clearly has a get mine agenda in a semi contract year (despite the option.) We are deficient at PF.

3 out of 5 spots are deficient which means we are a worse D word… DOOMED. Major changes need to be made (not necessarily in trade,) or we are DOOMED.


Suggestions, Leonard Miller into the rotation at the 5 to see what he can do. Josh Minott into the 4 with Randle DNPCD or at least the 3rd string. DDV remains in for now, but as the other 2 integrate we consider moving TSJ into DDV’s spot. Cut Dozier, try to find a backup PG who can sign a minimum.

[cupcakesnake]

I don't see our current struggles as having much to do with rotation. If we can't win the Ant/Randle minutes, no amount of lineups tweaks is going to save us. The core of our team identity needs to be functional before you can optimize the rotation around it. Otherwise we're just putting bandaids on a gaping wound.

Our bench lineups are currently keeping us alive.

In terms of Conley and Ingles... they're old enough it's certainly possible they're "washed", but it's also not uncommon for older players to take longer to rev it up. It's way too soon to write them off. Ingles is already out of the rotation though.

I personally get why Finch is desperately clinging to a rigid 8-man rotation. Until he figures out how to optimize lineups with our best players, no amount of Minnott or Dilly is moving the needle. Those young guys need a stable platform to stand out and we haven't established that yet.

I don't think it's time yet to scrutinize rotations. Finch needs to figure out how to optimize Ant, Randle, and Jaden McDaniels.

Who was it that said, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity"? We drafted two first rounders and don't play them. If Minott, Miller, TSJ, and Dillingham are busts we need to find that out. Like I said in my original post, this rotation is going nowhere.

The “return” of the trade has hurt this team in more ways than one. As a result, they’re trying to fit a square peg inside of a round hole.

We've got a bunch of young guys that we have no idea if they’re real players or not. Either the staff knows some of them aren’t any good or it’s Finch just being a Thibs style coach.

Integrate the young guys so we can see how they do. But you have to play them with the core guys and not just in the last couple minutes.

Well, it looked like we had finally figured out our defense until Towns ripped out our heart and ate it in front of us. There was very clear progress after our season started in total crisis with a non-workable defense and offense.

I am disappointed after seeing Dilly against Boston and (especially) Houston, that we've barely seen him since. He really can't play defense at an NBA level yet though, so if Finch's main priority was making sure we're a top ranked defensive team, I can hardly imagine our 6'0" 100lbs. rookie being a part of the strategy. I don't have any feelings on TSJ right now. I didn't expect him to be part of the plan this year. Josh Minnott, I was a little more hopeful for but... if he still can't shoot, how are we supposed to put him on the floor with our already super cramped lineups?

I'd love to see the young guys play, don't get me wrong, I'm just always way less adamant that it's something a coach should or shouldn't do. You have to have a ton of stability in your rotation to play guys who are negatives. Minnesota doesn't have that at all. Our season is constantly teetering on the brink of disaster, so I kind of get a coach not exactly prioritizing development right now.

Coach's get slapped with the "Thibs-style" monicker whenever they create short rotations, even when we as fans don't actually know if our end of the bench players can play. I felt that strongly about the end of the Nurse era in Toronto. Everyone was making fun of them but all those young guys he wasn't playing? They're either out of the NBA, or not being played somewhere else.

[LSWF]

A third of the season has produced enough evidence that changes are needed. So, if I was Finch this is what I would do. Play Rudy and Ant as much as they can handle. Expand the rotation to ten and make minutes for the eight others contingent on execution. You miss defensive rotations you spend some time riding the bench. You don't give full effort, take a seat. You get sloppy with the ball, good luck on that next contract while your minutes decline on a middling team. **** the politics, play the guys that are producing. Unfortunately, I don't think Finch has the stones for this to happen.

[Guest84]

Who was it that said, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity"? We drafted two first rounders and don't play them. If Minott, Miller, TSJ, and Dillingham are busts we need to find that out. Like I said in my original post, this rotation is going nowhere.

The “return” of the trade has hurt this team in more ways than one. As a result, they’re trying to fit a square peg inside of a round hole.

We've got a bunch of young guys that we have no idea if they’re real players or not. Either the staff knows some of them aren’t any good or it’s Finch just being a Thibs style coach.

Integrate the young guys so we can see how they do. But you have to play them with the core guys and not just in the last couple minutes.

Well, it looked like we had finally figured out our defense until Towns ripped out our heart and ate it in front of us. There was very clear progress after our season started in total crisis with a non-workable defense and offense.

I am disappointed after seeing Dilly against Boston and (especially) Houston, that we've barely seen him since. He really can't play defense at an NBA level yet though, so if Finch's main priority was making sure we're a top ranked defensive team, I can hardly imagine our 6'0" 100lbs. rookie being a part of the strategy. I don't have any feelings on TSJ right now. I didn't expect him to be part of the plan this year. Josh Minnott, I was a little more hopeful for but... if he still can't shoot, how are we supposed to put him on the floor with our already super cramped lineups?

I'd love to see the young guys play, don't get me wrong, I'm just always way less adamant that it's something a coach should or shouldn't do. You have to have a ton of stability in your rotation to play guys who are negatives. Minnesota doesn't have that at all. Our season is constantly teetering on the brink of disaster, so I kind of get a coach not exactly prioritizing development right now.

Coach's get slapped with the "Thibs-style" monicker whenever they create short rotations, even when we as fans don't actually know if our end of the bench players can play. I felt that strongly about the end of the Nurse era in Toronto. Everyone was making fun of them but all those young guys he wasn't playing? They're either out of the NBA, or not being played somewhere else.

I don’t have an issue with short rotations. In Finch’s case, his reluctance/stubbornness to try something new when his original plan isn’t working. He’s always too late when it comes to his decisions.

Maybe there’s some strong politics involved behind the scenes idk. But there’s still more season to be played so we’ll see how things play out.

[cupcakesnake]

The “return” of the trade has hurt this team in more ways than one. As a result, they’re trying to fit a square peg inside of a round hole.

We've got a bunch of young guys that we have no idea if they’re real players or not. Either the staff knows some of them aren’t any good or it’s Finch just being a Thibs style coach.

Integrate the young guys so we can see how they do. But you have to play them with the core guys and not just in the last couple minutes.

Well, it looked like we had finally figured out our defense until Towns ripped out our heart and ate it in front of us. There was very clear progress after our season started in total crisis with a non-workable defense and offense.

I am disappointed after seeing Dilly against Boston and (especially) Houston, that we've barely seen him since. He really can't play defense at an NBA level yet though, so if Finch's main priority was making sure we're a top ranked defensive team, I can hardly imagine our 6'0" 100lbs. rookie being a part of the strategy. I don't have any feelings on TSJ right now. I didn't expect him to be part of the plan this year. Josh Minnott, I was a little more hopeful for but... if he still can't shoot, how are we supposed to put him on the floor with our already super cramped lineups?

I'd love to see the young guys play, don't get me wrong, I'm just always way less adamant that it's something a coach should or shouldn't do. You have to have a ton of stability in your rotation to play guys who are negatives. Minnesota doesn't have that at all. Our season is constantly teetering on the brink of disaster, so I kind of get a coach not exactly prioritizing development right now.

Coach's get slapped with the "Thibs-style" monicker whenever they create short rotations, even when we as fans don't actually know if our end of the bench players can play. I felt that strongly about the end of the Nurse era in Toronto. Everyone was making fun of them but all those young guys he wasn't playing? They're either out of the NBA, or not being played somewhere else.

I don’t have an issue with short rotations. In Finch’s case, his reluctance/stubbornness to try something new when his original plan isn’t working. He’s always too late when it comes to his decisions.

Maybe there’s some strong politics involved behind the scenes idk. But there’s still more season to be played so we’ll see how things play out.

Changing the rotation is not the only thing a coach can do to make changes. He's already made major changes to our defensive scheme and it was working really well (though that New York game was disturbing so we'll have to see if we're backsliding again). Characterising Finch as not trying things or sticking to his original plan isn't true.

[wolves_89]

I really wish we could get a 3-5 game stretch without Randle just to see how the team looks with Naz starting and Minott/Miller getting rotation minutes off the bench. I don't know that we'd be better, but the style of play and energy would be so much more enjoyable.