Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[earthtone]

Probably Klay, Draymond is much more replaceable

I’m of the complete opposite opinion. Draymond made the whole thing work.

Yeah but finding another defensive role player and connector on offense isn’t that hard. Finding a Klay-type player is.

‘Defensive Role Player’ aka DPOY, 4x All-Star, 8x All-Defense, soon-to-be first ballot Hall of Fame.

Very easy to find those guys, they’re practically growing on trees.

[RoteSchroder]

I’m of the complete opposite opinion. Draymond made the whole thing work.

Yeah but finding another defensive role player and connector on offense isn’t that hard. Finding a Klay-type player is.

‘Defensive Role Player’ aka DPOY, 4x All-Star, 8x All-Defense, soon-to-be first ballot Hall of Fame.

Very easy to find those guys, they’re practically growing on trees.

yeah, the dude plays alongside two GOAT shooters who give him name recognition and is allowed to get away with murder

whenever Curry/Klay aren't around this guy purposely gets himself kicked out of games so as not to get exposed
https://www.marca.com/en/basketball/nba/golden-state-warriors/2023/11/17/6557c9a8268e3eba388b4576.html

He's a big time loser without Steph
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/tkoyqc/draymond_green_record_when_steph_is_out_2859/

https://www.audacy.com/cbssportsradio/articles/draymond-green-exposed-without-steph-curry-klay-thompson

He's a negative player without Klay/Steph and is statistically ranked 388th out of 410 players. Without additional help, "DPOY" anchored GSW to the worst defensive rating in the league.
https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/draymond-steph-klay-stats-curry-green-thompson-14811618.php

Meanwhile, Klay will still be Klay without Curry or Green.

Put 2-3 high-level role players like Igoudala, Marion, Thaddeus Young, Brook Lopez, post-prime Horford, post-prime Marc Gasol, Ben Wallace, Battier, JJJr, Gobert, Bogut, etc. alongside Klay and Steph and you'll still be big time winners while getting equal production, if not better.

Maybe you enjoy the manufactured NBA story lines, but I'm not a WWE fan myself.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2022/06/draymond-green-said-he-has-earned-differential-treatment-from-refs-i-wear-my-badge-of-honor.html
Green believes he's "earned" special treatment from the refs, lmao.

“That’s what Draymond Green does,” Brown said. “He’ll do whatever it takes to win. He’ll pull you, he’ll grab you, he’ll try to muck the game up because that’s what he does for their team. It’s nothing to be surprised about. Nothing I’m surprised about. He raised his physicality to try to stop us, and we’ve got to raise ours. Looking forward to the challenge.”

Imagine an actual elite defender being able to get away with that s***. Raptor players can't even breath on opponents without getting calls for fouls. Draymond is going around injuring people and kicking them in the balls

https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/draymond-green-gets-away-with-yelling-at-officials-for-40-seconds/623450

https://www.thescore.com/news/989165

Watch on YouTube

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/watch-lebron-loses-his-cool-after-draymond-green-gets-away-with-low-blow-in-game-4/

https://fadeawayworld.net/draymond-green-didnt-fulfil-his-promise-that-he-will-shot-40-on-3-pointers-he-is-shooting-just-21-4-so-far-hitting-only-6-3-pointers-in-the-2022-nba-playoffs

and some of the fouls he gets away with have left fans bewildered, even in these playoffs.

https://www.timesunion.com/warriors/article/Draymond-gets-into-altercation-with-Aaron-Gordon-17132319.php

https://brobible.com/sports/article/andrew-bogut-warriors-ignored-refs-fouls/

I could literally clothesline someone off the next pindown because I knew that if Klay just hit three in a row and the crowd’s on their feet, he’s getting his fourth—I could punch somebody in the face on a screen, knock them, out, and they wouldn’t call it. Klay would get his fourth 3 and even the refs would go “Wow.”

Then, I get traded to Dallas and set those same screens and I’d get 3 fouls in the first quarter. It was just crazy with the stuff I used to get away with there.”

From Andrew Bogut himself.

[Raps in 4]

Ngl... seeing Franz/Cade/Mobley having the seasons they're having, I expect more from Scottie. But I guess he has been injured too.

He was just giving you a 20+point triple double average w/ great defense before the injury?

he was giving us this last season

i want to see a jump in scoring like cade/franz.

even looking at advanced stats like BPM and VORP - franz and cade are clearing him

Cade still sucks (similar impact to Scottie this season). Sengun and Mobley have become very good players (Mobley mostly just as a defensive anchor). Franz is the only guy from that draft class who has ascended to superstardom.

Scottie has played like **** this season, but at least part of that has been due to injuries to both himself and key teammates. Nonetheless, I am disappointed in him.

[Raps in 4]

Ngl... seeing Franz/Cade/Mobley having the seasons they're having, I expect more from Scottie. But I guess he has been injured too.

i always felt cade would had been the better player....he's scoring skillset was a lot bigger from the get go, and he's taken the jump this year

He hasn't taken a jump at all. He's still extremely inefficient. He's just taking more shots this season.

[XTC]

Ngl... seeing Franz/Cade/Mobley having the seasons they're having, I expect more from Scottie. But I guess he has been injured too.

i always felt cade would had been the better player....he's scoring skillset was a lot bigger from the get go, and he's taken the jump this year

He hasn't taken a jump at all. He's still extremely inefficient. He's just taking more shots this season.

Come on bro... you gotta give flowers when they're due.

How efficient has Scottie been? Scottie's averaging 20/8/7 with a PER of 17.8, BPM of 2.7, and a TS of 53.4% (1.6 three's made) as the focal point.

Cade is averaging 24/7/10 with a PER of 19.3, and BPM of 2.3, and a TS of 54.6% (2.4 three's made) as the focal point.

Do you know how crazy this board would go if Barnes was averaging 24/7/10? We would be talking about how his efficiency will pick up, and how great Barnes is... players from the 2021 draft have leap frogged Barnes compared to last season (Cade, Wagner, Mobley, and Sengun). He's comfortably been the FIFTH best player from that draft this season.

[Raps in 4]

i always felt cade would had been the better player....he's scoring skillset was a lot bigger from the get go, and he's taken the jump this year

He hasn't taken a jump at all. He's still extremely inefficient. He's just taking more shots this season.

Come on bro... you gotta give flowers when they're due.

How efficient has Scottie been? Scottie's averaging 20/8/7 with a PER of 17.8, BPM of 2.7, and a TS of 53.4% (1.6 three's made) as the focal point.

Cade is averaging 24/7/10 with a PER of 19.3, and BPM of 2.3, and a TS of 54.6% (2.4 three's made) as the focal point.

Do you know how crazy this board would go if Barnes was averaging 24/7/10? We would be talking about how his efficiency will pick up, and how great Barnes is... players from the 2021 draft have leap frogged Barnes compared to last season (Cade, Wagner, Mobley, and Sengun). He's comfortably been the FIFTH best player from that draft this season.

Cade and Scottie have the same production this season, more or less. They've both sucked. Increased volume =/= increased production. I'm not saying Scottie has been good this year, but using Cade as an example of someone who has broken out is disingenuous.

[Los_29]

Cade hasn’t broken out. He’s still inefficient and turns the ball over a lot. However, he has made improvements. He’s a better playmaker this year. He just needs to get that efficiency up. You can make a case he’s surpassed Scottie though. Mobley and Franz have also surpassed him. Luckily, it’s quite fluid and not set in stone.

[HumbleRen]

Cade was always this good, he just doesn’t have g league level players beside him anymore.

Imagine Scottie playing with this current roster without Poeltl, IQ and RJ. That’s what Cade had to deal with for his first 3 years.

[anotherhomer]

going back to scottie...i wish he just rest his angle.....before he got hurt...this is what he was doing

Watch on YouTube

[wegotthabeet]

Probably Klay, Draymond is much more replaceable

I’m of the complete opposite opinion. Draymond made the whole thing work.

Yeah but finding another defensive role player and connector on offense isn’t that hard. Finding a Klay-type player is.

Finding a top 10 defender of all-time, who can defend any position, make small ball viable and have the offence run through him is isn't that hard?

Klay massively benefited from circumstance. Curry & Draymond created that circumstance.

[TorontoBarneys]

Yeah Cade is looking like the better prospect definitively now. Bummer! He went #1 overall for a reason.

[RoteSchroder]

I’m of the complete opposite opinion. Draymond made the whole thing work.

Yeah but finding another defensive role player and connector on offense isn’t that hard. Finding a Klay-type player is.

Finding a top 10 defender of all-time, who can defend any position, make small ball viable and have the offence run through him is isn't that hard?

Klay massively benefited from circumstance. Curry & Draymond created that circumstance.

Check my prior post, Draymond’s overrated. Come back if you have better evidence.

[wegotthabeet]

Yeah but finding another defensive role player and connector on offense isn’t that hard. Finding a Klay-type player is.

Finding a top 10 defender of all-time, who can defend any position, make small ball viable and have the offence run through him is isn't that hard?

Klay massively benefited from circumstance. Curry & Draymond created that circumstance.

Check my prior post, Draymond’s overrated. Come back if you have better evidence.

I read your post, just strongly disagree with your take. I actually think he's the most underrated player of the past 25 years.

[tsherkin]

Ngl... seeing Franz/Cade/Mobley having the seasons they're having, I expect more from Scottie. But I guess he has been injured too.

i always felt cade would had been the better player....he's scoring skillset was a lot bigger from the get go, and he's taken the jump this year

He hasn't taken a jump at all. He's still extremely inefficient. He's just taking more shots this season.

His playmaking has been what's worth watching this season. Scoring hasn't come forward much at all, yeah.

[tsherkin]

So Scottie's 17 games into this season.

We've got him taking 16.2 FGA/g, posting 19.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 7.2 apg. 3pt shot is in the crapper, but he's posting a career-best 54.3% inside the arc (same as his rookie year, on +0.3 FGA/g). Got some turnover issues. Efficiency is in the crapper, some 4% worse than league average, despite a career-best draw rate (matched off by his career-worst FT%). The middie has looked decent when he's taking it (and he is, just under twice a game). Short game's looking strong, and he's using it a lot. Career low proportion of shots in close and he's under 30% from the field from 16+ feet, including from 3. Which is a problem.

So, a little of this, a little of that. He's had the eye injury, which I'm sure has not been amazing for his ability to see the rim on his shots, and he's been interrupted a couple times due to those injuries, ruining rhythm and all that. Only 17 games. Some good, some less good.

Should be interesting to see what happens from here.

[RoteSchroder]

Finding a top 10 defender of all-time, who can defend any position, make small ball viable and have the offence run through him is isn't that hard?

Klay massively benefited from circumstance. Curry & Draymond created that circumstance.

Check my prior post, Draymond’s overrated. Come back if you have better evidence.

I read your post, just strongly disagree with your take. I actually think he's the most underrated player of the past 25 years.

Where’s your evidence, no one cares about how you feel. All evidence suggests he’s an overrated bum. Can’t generate any offense without Steph or Klay. Even his own coach called him a terrible meaningless game player.

I like how you think you know more than someone who literally played on GSW. Come back with evidence please. “My take” is literally comments from other players, factual numbers and events that already happened.

I remember counting at least 7 fouls in the first half of a Raptors game a few years ago. Tell me why you think a player who’s allowed to foul to no ends is not overrated. I’m waiting.

[tsherkin]

Check my prior post, Draymond’s overrated. Come back if you have better evidence.

I read your post, just strongly disagree with your take. I actually think he's the most underrated player of the past 25 years.

Where’s your evidence, no one cares about how you feel. All evidence suggests he’s an overrated bum. Can’t generate any offense without Steph or Klay. Even his own coach called him a terrible meaningless game player.

I like how you think you know more than someone who literally played on GSW. Come back with evidence please.

Draymond is who he is. His defense and passing were critical to how Golden State operated. He wasn't, however, an offensive anchor. That doesn't mean he wasn't a good player. It just means he didn't do it in the most accessible route to popularity. He didn't win a DPOY, nor was he named to a couple of All-NBA teams because he was crap. Yeah, he's in his mid-30s now and doesn't have much of a jumper and can't make up for what Golden State has lost on offense, for sure. But he was a critical component of their success and they wouldn't have titled without him, nor reached the insane heights they did in the RS.

He isn't overrated. Right now, he's just old, and he's a dick, so people are happier to pile on him because he doesn't have current success as a shield and folks like to kick people when they're down.

[Tripod]

So Scottie's 17 games into this season.

We've got him taking 16.2 FGA/g, posting 19.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 7.2 apg. 3pt shot is in the crapper, but he's posting a career-best 54.3% inside the arc (same as his rookie year, on +0.3 FGA/g). Got some turnover issues. Efficiency is in the crapper, some 4% worse than league average, despite a career-best draw rate (matched off by his career-worst FT%). The middie has looked decent when he's taking it (and he is, just under twice a game). Short game's looking strong, and he's using it a lot. Career low proportion of shots in close and he's under 30% from the field from 16+ feet, including from 3. Which is a problem.

So, a little of this, a little of that. He's had the eye injury, which I'm sure has not been amazing for his ability to see the rim on his shots, and he's been interrupted a couple times due to those injuries, ruining rhythm and all that. Only 17 games. Some good, some less good.

Should be interesting to see what happens from here.

To me, we have seen him be dominant. We have seen him take over 4th Q games. And when he does that, most of that scoring is from inside.

So while taking so many shots from the outside this year can be frustrating, it's also part of the development process.

As you pointed out, how many of his 17 games has he actually been healthy in? A handful. And we saw him post a career high 35 in an efficient manner when healthy.

Meanwhile the last 3 games he has has his season worst: pts, reb, assts, FG%, 3pt%, PF. It isn't a coincidence that ALL those season worst happened the last 3 games since hurting his ankle. And of course, it's hurt his season averages.

He has lots to improve on but clearly injuries have impacted his "stats". Not to mention injuries to other starters like IQ. At some point, we need to see these guys playing healthy together to build chemistry.

[tsherkin]

As you pointed out, how many of his 17 games has he actually been healthy in? A handful. And we saw him post a career high 35 in an efficient manner when healthy.

Yeah, I wanted to throw that out there because not only has he been in only so many games, he hasn't been fully healthy, either. And that definitely impacts things. And there have definitely been some games where he's been bullying his way to the rim effectively and just wasn't finishing (even though he's actually above league-average finishing in close on the season to date).

There are positive signs. I just hope we start having more time where he is showing us more than promising signs. We need him to be healthy and we need the guys around him to be healthy as well.

[wegotthabeet]

Check my prior post, Draymond’s overrated. Come back if you have better evidence.

I read your post, just strongly disagree with your take. I actually think he's the most underrated player of the past 25 years.

Where’s your evidence, no one cares about how you feel. All evidence suggests he’s an overrated bum. Can’t generate any offense without Steph or Klay. Even his own coach called him a terrible meaningless game player.

I like how you think you know more than someone who literally played on GSW. Come back with evidence please. “My take” is literally comments from other players, factual numbers and events that already happened.

I remember counting at least 7 fouls in the first half of a Raptors game a few years ago. Tell me why you think a player who’s allowed to foul to no ends is not overrated. I’m waiting.

It's Christmas. I have a family. I'll take to the GB in a couple of weeks when I have more free time. Enjoy your holidays.