2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 2)

Special_Puppy · Post #1561 » by **Special_Puppy** » Wed Jan 8, 2025 11:05 pm

Snake3 wrote:Some of the stuff is a little be shaky with epm. I wouldn't rely on it too much to determine the defensive impact. Especially when comparing players across seasons or different teams. Otherwise, you'll say Kris Dunn is the most impactful defensive player in the league and it's historic.

All metrics can give idiosyncratic results, but an average of them gives pretty sensible answers

Exp0sed · Post #1562 » by **Exp0sed** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 12:34 am

anyone thinking SGA is doing some ridicilous carry job really needs to rewatch the first quarter vs. the Cavs

doogie_hauser · Post #1563 » by **doogie_hauser** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 2:01 am

Finally sold on SGA winning MVP.

Infinite Llamas · Post #1564 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 2:32 am

Shai was good but not great this game.

Rdude22 · Post #1565 » by **Rdude22** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 2:59 am

Maybe some mental fatigue but this was a sloppy game for Shai

Some bad fouls and lackadaisical turnovers from someone who is usually a bit more attentive

Still, a hell of an impressive 2-month run

Jaqua92 · Post #1566 » by **Jaqua92** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 3:03 am

Special_Puppy wrote:
Snake3 wrote:Some of the stuff is a little be shaky with epm. I wouldn't rely on it too much to determine the defensive impact. Especially when comparing players across seasons or different teams. Otherwise, you'll say Kris Dunn is the most impactful defensive player in the league and it's historic.

All metrics can give idiosyncratic results, but an average of them gives pretty sensible answers

EPM also says the Celtics are the best team in the NBA despite being a distant third in record.

Special_Puppy · Post #1567 » by **Special_Puppy** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 3:49 am

Jaqua92 wrote:
Special_Puppy wrote:
Snake3 wrote:Some of the stuff is a little be shaky with epm. I wouldn't rely on it too much to determine the defensive impact. Especially when comparing players across seasons or different teams. Otherwise, you'll say Kris Dunn is the most impactful defensive player in the league and it's historic.

All metrics can give idiosyncratic results, but an average of them gives pretty sensible answers

EPM also says the Celtics are the best team in the NBA despite being a distant third in record.

I don’t think that’s crazy? They’re title favorites for a reason

RRR3 · Post #1568 » by **RRR3** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 4:16 am

Jokic stans INSISTED the team was g-league level without him but they just blew out a playoff team :lol:

itsxtray · Post #1569 » by **itsxtray** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 4:34 am

RRR3 wrote:Jokic stans INSISTED the team was g-league level without him but they just blew out a playoff team

Yep, although any team can have a great night and beat a better one. On/off stats shouldn’t be taken too seriously—no team is truly the best or worst offense/defense OF ALL TIME with a particular player on or off the court. That's ridiculous.

Special_Puppy · Post #1570 » by **Special_Puppy** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 4:34 am

RRR3 wrote:Jokic stans INSISTED the team was g-league level without him but they just blew out a playoff team

Nuggets beat the full strength Clippers without Jokic or Murray or Aaron Gordon last year. You get weird results sometimes in an 82 game season https://www.nba.com/game/den-vs-lac-0022300257/box-score

AleksandarN · Post #1571 » by **AleksandarN** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 4:37 am

itsxtray wrote:
RRR3 wrote:Jokic stans INSISTED the team was g-league level without him but they just blew out a playoff team

Yep, although any team can have a great night and beat a better one. On/off stats shouldn’t be taken too seriously—no team is truly the best or worst offense/defense OF ALL TIME with a particular player on or off the court. That's ridiculous.

If you seen the game you could see that the bench played better. If we get this play going forward and Murray keeps improving I have a feeling Nuggets winning it this year. They are finally coming together the last two weeks. Btw the Clippers were lifeless and playing terrible defense. Maybe the fires are on their mind

Jaqua92 · Post #1572 » by **Jaqua92** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 4:40 am

The same Jokic - Less Nuggets played the full health Celtics tonight all night until the last few minutes last night.

They also got destroyed by lottery teams earlier in the year.

Jaqua92 · Post #1573 » by **Jaqua92** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 4:41 am

AleksandarN wrote:
itsxtray wrote:
RRR3 wrote:Jokic stans INSISTED the team was g-league level without him but they just blew out a playoff team

Yep, although any team can have a great night and beat a better one. On/off stats shouldn’t be taken too seriously—no team is truly the best or worst offense/defense OF ALL TIME with a particular player on or off the court. That's ridiculous.

If you seen the game you could see that the bench played better. If we get this play going forward and Murray keeps improving I have a feeling Nuggets winning it this year. They are finally coming together the last two weeks. Btw the Clippers were lifeless and playing terrible defense. Maybe the fires are on their mind

I don't think they beat Boston, but they absolutely will get to the finals.

I'm extremely confident we get a Celtics Nuggets finals

RRR3 · Post #1574 » by **RRR3** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 4:58 am

I'm not saying Jokic has an amazing supporting cast but people trying to act like this is the same level as the absolute **** LeBorn, Kobe, Wade and T-Mac had at various points in their careers are being extremely disingenuous. If Murray is able to return to form, it's pretty a solid cast. If not, I'll admit it's not that great, but it's certainly not like the 03 Magic were T-Mac's was relying on **** Pat Garrity and Andrew Declercq.

AleksandarN · Post #1575 » by **AleksandarN** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 5:04 am

Jaqua92 wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
itsxtray wrote:Yep, although any team can have a great night and beat a better one. On/off stats shouldn’t be taken too seriously—no team is truly the best or worst offense/defense OF ALL TIME with a particular player on or off the court. That's ridiculous.

If you seen the game you could see that the bench played better. If we get this play going forward and Murray keeps improving I have a feeling Nuggets winning it this year. They are finally coming together the last two weeks. Btw the Clippers were lifeless and playing terrible defense. Maybe the fires are on their mind

I don't think they beat Boston, but they absolutely will get to the finals.

I'm extremely confident we get a Celtics Nuggets finals

Oh I think they will beat Boston. Jokic and AG will run havoc against Boston’s front court.

EmpireFalls · Post #1576 » by **EmpireFalls** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 5:09 am

Special_Puppy wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:
Special_Puppy wrote:*IF* you think that the difference in teams results between the Nuggets and Thunder is almost entirely due to the difference in supporting cast (and there's a case that its not since SGA outperforms Jokic in some advanced stats like Old EPM and LEBRON) then what's the case for why voters should care about the record difference between the two teams besides "its just always been that way"?

I guess because these voters are human beings and most of them are the same ones who voted that way for the past 20 years?

“Besides it’s just always been that way”

Well what is the discussion? Who “should” win MVP in an ideal world, or who we are predicting to win MVP based upon reality in the year 2025? If it’s the latter conversation, then previous voting track record means a massive amount, especially as it will affect media coverage and narrative build-up throughout the year.

AleksandarN · Post #1577 » by **AleksandarN** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 5:10 am

RRR3 wrote:I'm not saying Jokic has an amazing supporting cast but people trying to act like this is the same level as the absolute **** LeBorn, Kobe, Wade and T-Mac had at various points in their careers are being extremely disingenuous. If Murray is able to return to form, it's pretty a solid cast. If not, I'll admit it's not that great, but it's certainly not like the 03 Magic were T-Mac's was relying on **** Pat Garrity and Andrew Declercq.

At the beginning of the year Murray was playing like garbage. Complete garbage. He is improving and I hope he gets there but the Nuggets team as a whole was not good. Westbrook took a while to get going. To build chemistry. AG has only played a handful of games . Julian looked terrible. CB was the only one other than Jokic that looked good at the start of year. It was a complete carry job at beginning by Jokic. That is how terrible the team looked. I hope we are beginning to see the light. Btw no player has played at all star level other than Jokic. Did you know only 2 players scored over 30 points in a game for the Nuggets all season besides Jokic. And that was only in two games.

JulioItaliano · Post #1578 » by **JulioItaliano** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 5:15 am

Evan Mobley and its not even close.

BigGargamel · Post #1579 » by **BigGargamel** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 5:19 am

RRR3 wrote:Jokic stans INSISTED the team was g-league level without him but they just blew out a playoff team

You guys are just so predictable.

They are a bottom five team in the league without Jokic. Stats going back years prove this.

The Clippers were without Kawhi and going through some things personally, by the way. They just weren't in it at all tonight.

RRR3 · Post #1580 » by **RRR3** » Thu Jan 9, 2025 6:35 am

BigGargamel wrote:
RRR3 wrote:Jokic stans INSISTED the team was g-league level without him but they just blew out a playoff team

You guys are just so predictable.

They are a bottom five team in the league without Jokic. Stats going back years prove this.

The Clippers were without Kawhi and going through some things personally, by the way. They just weren't in it at all tonight.

Who is leading the MVP race?