Why isn't this board more critical of Anthony Black?

[dsg2021]

I am a believer of AB. And I hated the pick first, as well as jumped ship from Elfrid way earlier than most, so that is saying something.

[eyriq]

Still high on Black. Me likey recent foul-drawing.

You know ball

[Bensational]

AB’s Per36 compared to JRue’s Per36 this season shows AB is on track to provide more assists, steals and blocks than JRue.

Efficiency is the big separating factor for JRue right now. But it would seem that JRue can serve as a blueprint for Black’s future.

AB’s efficiency progress is going to depend on him finding some go to scoring moves and he’s shown glimpses lately with his hesi, and also with some really nice step through moves from the high post. Making those regular features plus improving his shooting would make him a great compliment to PB, Franz and Suggs.

[eyriq]

One thing that I think is increasingly clear is that Orlando is building around Anthony Black. They've purposely avoided bringing in players with overlapping skill sets and roles.

[basketballRob]

One thing that I think is increasingly clear is that Orlando is building around Anthony Black. They've purposely avoided bringing in players with overlapping skill sets and roles.

Maybe we should trade Suggs and Franz and put some shooters around him?

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[eyriq]

One thing that I think is increasingly clear is that Orlando is building around Anthony Black. They've purposely avoided bringing in players with overlapping skill sets and roles.

Maybe we should trade Suggs and Franz and put some shooters around him?

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Umm....

No

[OrlandoDream]

I like AB but im nowhere near as sold on him long term as the majority of fans. Idk why the fascination personally. Aside from above-average defense, he is subpar and bad in almost every other category. He cant shoot for sh*t. Yes he is young which is why I'm not being super critical on him. It took Suggs 3 seasons to be decent. Gonna give him one more year but to put him in same category as our big 3 or goga is insane. I would not hesitate to trade him for upgrade rotation player.

[Idiosyncratic]

I like AB but im nowhere near as sold on him long term as the majority of fans. Idk why the fascination personally. Aside from above-average defense, he is subpar and bad in almost every other category. He cant shoot for sh*t. Yes he is young which is why I'm not being super critical on him. It took Suggs 3 seasons to be decent. Gonna give him one more year but to put him in same category as our big 3 or goga is insane. I would not hesitate to trade him for upgrade rotation player.

You read here and come off thinking most are sold on AB?

[OrlandoDream]

I like AB but im nowhere near as sold on him long term as the majority of fans. Idk why the fascination personally. Aside from above-average defense, he is subpar and bad in almost every other category. He cant shoot for sh*t. Yes he is young which is why I'm not being super critical on him. It took Suggs 3 seasons to be decent. Gonna give him one more year but to put him in same category as our big 3 or goga is insane. I would not hesitate to trade him for upgrade rotation player.

You read here and come off thinking most are sold on AB?

Not sure here but on X and other platforms, AB has a lot more supporters. Again, I'm cheering for him.....but its hard to ignore his limitations. Especially when we are in dire need of backcourt scoring/shooting. I don't want MCW 2.0.

[cedric76]

His back is still bothering him
Why can't we be healthy

[MasterGMer]

What is the usage rate of Paolo and Franz in their first two seasons? Then let's see what is the usage rate of AB in his rookie and sophomore season? It is obvious how the teams developed them and used them. AB will be 21 tomorrow. And tonight he had 14 points and 5 assists plus 2 steals and 1 block in 28 minutes playing.

However, I can be critical of him. He still needs to grow his offensive game especially his ability to knock down open 3s. If he wants to play quality minutes in the playoff, he needs to improve on that area, period.

But he still seems kinda hesitant when driving to the hoop and not as assertive. He is doing a much better job on that by making it to the free throw line.

Don't you forget I am the OP of the "How bout that AB" thread. And I said his growth will help the ceiling of this team if we've already got Paolo, Franz and Jalen Suggs.

But with this team struggling right now I really wish somebody stepped up his game. We need Franz back badly and we need Goga and Suggs. I will be so happy if this team goes back to winning. But it is kinda tough right now.

[CarraT]

That’s MCW…

Been saying that for a year now.

And you're both wrong.

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You’re, of course, entitled to your opinion, but when it comes to player development, the truth will only become clear in a few years. It’s impossible to predict with certainty how things will unfold, so there’s no absolute right or wrong here. While you may strongly believe in your perspective, that doesn’t invalidate the opinions of others. This is a matter of speculation, not fact, so I’d kindly ask you to reconsider making such definitive statements.

[Blue_and_Whte]

That’s MCW…

Been saying that for a year now.

And you're both wrong.

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Like I was wrong about Bamba? You’re the very last person on the planet to call my opinion wrong.

An opinion can’t be wrong unless it’s completely formed from myth / lies which mine is not, and even then. Similar build, strengths and weaknesses, similar numbers, taking injuries and role limitations out of a projection equation and their probably almost identical or at the very least similar. I’m sure there are other metrics out there.

Honestly I don’t know what some of you think he’ll turn into, but if the AB we get is MCW pre injuries I’d be good with that. Decent back up with a willingness to shoot a spot up 3pt shot which is a leg up on MCW.

[basketballRob]

Been saying that for a year now.

And you're both wrong.

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Like I was wrong about Bamba? You’re the very last person on the planet to call my opinion wrong.

An opinion can’t be wrong unless it’s completely formed from myth / lies which mine is not, and even then. Similar build, strengths and weaknesses, similar numbers, taking injuries and role limitations out of a projection equation and their probably almost identical or at the very least similar. I’m sure there are other metrics out there.

Honestly I don’t know what some of you think he’ll turn into, but if the AB we get is MCW pre injuries I’d be good with that. Decent back up with a willingness to shoot a spot up 3pt shot which is a leg up on MCW.

I remember you going on and on about drafting James Bouknght. I was arguing Bouknight wasn't going to be good because of his age, and you argued that age didn't matter and that he was good. We could've had Bouknght instead of Franz.

I wasn't wrong about Vuc and Fournier. Neither players are winners. Vuc teams have been the same for the last 10 years. Always struggling to be medicre, but they always fall short

AB is already a better shooter than MCW, and he was like 23 when he got drafted. AB has all the tools. He needs to be more aggressive, taking the ball to the basket and keep working on his shot . Seeing his FT percentage jump is a good sign, and he's still at around 32% from 3 for his career. I think part of what hurts AB is that he tries to play a role on a winning team. He doesn't have the freedom a lot of young players have.


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[Blue_and_Whte]

And you're both wrong.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Like I was wrong about Bamba? You’re the very last person on the planet to call my opinion wrong.

An opinion can’t be wrong unless it’s completely formed from myth / lies which mine is not, and even then. Similar build, strengths and weaknesses, similar numbers, taking injuries and role limitations out of a projection equation and their probably almost identical or at the very least similar. I’m sure there are other metrics out there.

Honestly I don’t know what some of you think he’ll turn into, but if the AB we get is MCW pre injuries I’d be good with that. Decent back up with a willingness to shoot a spot up 3pt shot which is a leg up on MCW.

I remember you going on and on about drafting James Bouknght. That didn't work out for you because you have a poor evaluation of young players. You are wrong about Black, too. Time will tell.

I wasn't wrong about Vuc and Fournier. Neither players are winners. Vuc teams have been the same for the last 10 years. Always struggling to be medicre, but they always fall short


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First I don’t remember the JB thing, Second We didn’t draft him so IDC. Your argument, was that Bamba was our “center of the future.” Not that NV and EF were winners or not.

EDIT: Yes, there was some mention of the guy that went 11th, and who posters had between 7-9 on their draft boards…. It looks like MANY were wrong about Bouknight.

It’s also the same draft thread where I ultimately settled on Franz Wagner and Suggs…and where you made the argument that Giddy was the next Luka:.. THAT 2021 Draft…

My evaluation of young talent is probably on par with most which as of late supersedes yours considering I was just recently 1000% accurate about Mohamed Bamba.

You also can’t tell me I’m wrong about Black then say time will tell, least of all without your rebuttal. As it turns out yelling “you wrong yo.” Doesn’t really prove anything which you’ve done twice now as you disparage others ability to evaluate talent while striking out yourself.

[pepe1991]

And you're both wrong.

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Like I was wrong about Bamba? You’re the very last person on the planet to call my opinion wrong.

An opinion can’t be wrong unless it’s completely formed from myth / lies which mine is not, and even then. Similar build, strengths and weaknesses, similar numbers, taking injuries and role limitations out of a projection equation and their probably almost identical or at the very least similar. I’m sure there are other metrics out there.

Honestly I don’t know what some of you think he’ll turn into, but if the AB we get is MCW pre injuries I’d be good with that. Decent back up with a willingness to shoot a spot up 3pt shot which is a leg up on MCW.

I remember you going on and on about drafting James Bouknght. I was arguing Bouknight wasn't going to be good because of his age, and you argued that age didn't matter and that he was good. We could've had Bouknght instead of Franz.

I wasn't wrong about Vuc and Fournier. Neither players are winners. Vuc teams have been the same for the last 10 years. Always struggling to be medicre, but they always fall short

AB is already a better shooter than MCW, and he was like 23 when he got drafted. AB has all the tools. He needs to be more aggressive, taking the ball to the basket and keep working on his shot . Seeing his FT percentage jump is a good sign, and he's still at around 32% from 3 for his career. I think part of what hurts AB is that he tries to play a role on a winning team. He doesn't have the freedom a lot of young players have.


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Oh my boy, but you were.
Your argument was that Bamba is already better than Vuc and would average 20-10 with 3 blocks if given a chance.
Fast forward, Clippers prefer playing 6'8 - 36 years old SF at C over Bamba, who is regular DNP-CD body.

In mean time, Vuc is averaging 20 ppg on +60% TS at age of 34/35.

Vuc plays for $20M a year in mid 30s, Bamba is on vet minimum at age 26.
Vuc draws interests from teams like Warriors, Bamba is taking Chinese lesions for soon departure.

Only players that change trajectory of teams are top 20-30 players of all time. Therefor calling Vuc "not winner" or any nba player not named still active Curry, Lebron, Durant, Jokić and very few others is moronic.
Single player never will make nor break any team if it's not mega star. Brook Lopez didn't won playoff series in his life until he was 30. T mac never won playoff series in his career. Loser?



I don't want to be to harsh on Black, but no, he does not have "all the tools".
He has no jump shot. He shoots 24% for 3 , taking nothing but wide open, easiest possible 3 point shots & angles. Last year he was better, percentage vise, but nobody with any ground in reality thought he is good shooter. Because making wide open corner 3s isn't what makes play maker- good shooter.
For entire season, Anthony Black shoots 5-28 from dribble pull up 3s. That's 18% my boy.
Do you know what "normal" but still not great prospect PG like Scoot Henderson does in same situations? 19-54 / 35%.
Average PG like Jamal Murray 38/102- 38%

Do you know how Black shoots in general when he puts ball on the deck first, after dribble? 20-69. 29% Overall.


You mentioned FT% "going up". It's 74%. That's 3,4% below league's average. League's average also counts likes of Deandre Jordan, Jalen Duren, Ausar Thompson and others shooting 60% or worst.


"He needs to be more aggressive" . At what? He can't shoot over opponent, they sag off him, he can't drive around them because he isn't that quick, he can't shoot form mid range, he shoots 31% from mid range, he has no floater. What does " more aggressive" means? He should do what?
His dribbling is just average, most of the time he starts the drive, gets nowhere, gets stuck 8 foot from rim and throws high lobs on perimeter because he has nowhere to go, with picked up dribble.

The ways teams defend him is identical how they defended Payton, MCW, Fultz. Complete sag off and ignore.

Shooting 32% for career means nothing. It's not about percentages, it's about ability to punish defense for leaving you open and doing so on consistent level, at high volume.
Aaron Gordon is career 32,5% three point shooter. This year he took 58 threes. 39 were wide open, 17 were open. 56/58 threes were not contested.
If you can't grasp and understand it, nobody can really help you.

NBA players aren't defended because of arbitrary percentage, you can shoot 1-1 for a season and be 100% shooter, nba players are defended and chased off in fear of repetitive ability to be punished for leaving player open. Leaving guys like Black is calculated risk because even if he "shoots 32% for 3" it's worth gamble knowing he isn't capable of hitting 20-30 threes in 7 games and defeating them in that way.

To conclude, no, Black does not have "all tools", he is averaged sized, average speed PG/SF ( whatever) with average ballhandling skills and no jumpshot. In order for him to be serious nba starters he needs to show massive improvements. Ones he did not show going from year 1 to year 2.

[basketballRob]

Like I was wrong about Bamba? You’re the very last person on the planet to call my opinion wrong.

An opinion can’t be wrong unless it’s completely formed from myth / lies which mine is not, and even then. Similar build, strengths and weaknesses, similar numbers, taking injuries and role limitations out of a projection equation and their probably almost identical or at the very least similar. I’m sure there are other metrics out there.

Honestly I don’t know what some of you think he’ll turn into, but if the AB we get is MCW pre injuries I’d be good with that. Decent back up with a willingness to shoot a spot up 3pt shot which is a leg up on MCW.

I remember you going on and on about drafting James Bouknght. I was arguing Bouknight wasn't going to be good because of his age, and you argued that age didn't matter and that he was good. We could've had Bouknght instead of Franz.

I wasn't wrong about Vuc and Fournier. Neither players are winners. Vuc teams have been the same for the last 10 years. Always struggling to be medicre, but they always fall short

AB is already a better shooter than MCW, and he was like 23 when he got drafted. AB has all the tools. He needs to be more aggressive, taking the ball to the basket and keep working on his shot . Seeing his FT percentage jump is a good sign, and he's still at around 32% from 3 for his career. I think part of what hurts AB is that he tries to play a role on a winning team. He doesn't have the freedom a lot of young players have.


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Oh my boy, but you were.
Your argument was that Bamba is already better than Vuc and would average 20-10 with 3 blocks if given a chance.
Fast forward, Clippers prefer playing 6'8 - 36 years old SF at C over Bamba, who is regular DNP-CD body.

In mean time, Vuc is averaging 20 ppg on +60% TS at age of 34/35.

Vuc plays for $20M a year in mid 30s, Bamba is on vet minimum at age 26.
Vuc draws interests from teams like Warriors, Bamba is taking Chinese lesions for soon departure.

Only players that change trajectory of teams are top 20-30 players of all time. Therefor calling Vuc "not winner" or any nba player not named still active Curry, Lebron, Durant, Jokić and very few others is moronic.
Single player never will make nor break any team if it's not mega star. Brook Lopez didn't won playoff series in his life until he was 30. T mac never won playoff series in his career. Loser?



I don't want to be to harsh on Black, but no, he does not have "all the tools".
He has no jump shot. He shoots 24% for 3 , taking nothing but wide open, easiest possible 3 point shots & angles. Last year he was better, percentage vise, but nobody with any ground in reality thought he is good shooter. Because making wide open corner 3s isn't what makes play maker- good shooter.
For entire season, Anthony Black shoots 5-28 from dribble pull up 3s. That's 18% my boy.
Do you know what "normal" but still not great prospect PG like Scoot Henderson does in same situations? 19-54 / 35%.
Average PG like Jamal Murray 38/102- 38%

Do you know how Black shoots in general when he puts ball on the deck first, after dribble? 20-69. 29% Overall.


You mentioned FT% "going up". It's 74%. That's 3,4% below league's average. League's average also counts likes of Deandre Jordan, Jalen Duren, Ausar Thompson and others shooting 60% or worst.


"He needs to be more aggressive" . At what? He can't shoot over opponent, they sag off him, he can't drive around them because he isn't that quick, he can't shoot form mid range, he shoots 31% from mid range, he has no floater. What does " more aggressive" means? He should do what?
His dribbling is just average, most of the time he starts the drive, gets nowhere, gets stuck 8 foot from rim and throws high lobs on perimeter because he has nowhere to go, with picked up dribble.

The ways teams defend him is identical how they defended Payton, MCW, Fultz. Complete sag off and ignore.

Shooting 32% for career means nothing. It's not about percentages, it's about ability to punish defense for leaving you open and doing so on consistent level, at high volume.
Aaron Gordon is career 32,5% three point shooter. This year he took 58 threes. 39 were wide open, 17 were open. 56/58 threes were not contested.
If you can't grasp and understand it, nobody can really help you.

NBA players aren't defended because of arbitrary percentage, you can shoot 1-1 for a season and be 100% shooter, nba players are defended and chased off in fear of repetitive ability to be punished for leaving player open. Leaving guys like Black is calculated risk because even if he "shoots 32% for 3" it's worth gamble knowing he isn't capable of hitting 20-30 threes in 7 games and defeating them in that way.

To conclude, no, Black does not have "all tools", he is averaged sized, average speed PG/SF ( whatever) with average ballhandling skills and no jumpshot. In order for him to be serious nba starters he needs to show massive improvements. Ones he did not show going from year 1 to year 2.

Vuc is a forever loser. The stat that means something is win and losses. He can only lead his team to be slightly worse than mediocre. We started on the path to get better as soon as we got rid of Vuc and Fournier. Gordon was the only team player of that group. That's why he makes more money than Vuc and Fournier is in Europe. Vuc is a fake team player like Cole. Chicago was better before they traded for Vuc. The GM for Chicago is an idiot.

Guess what. We wouldn't have won with Bamba or Vuc.

You always lean towards the European players. You'll probably tell me Da Silva is a better shooter than Black. Black has shot 317 from 3 on more shots than Da Silva. TDS shoots 309, and those looks he's been getting are wide open. Black is 3 years younger than Da Silva

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[basketballRob]

Like I was wrong about Bamba? You’re the very last person on the planet to call my opinion wrong.

An opinion can’t be wrong unless it’s completely formed from myth / lies which mine is not, and even then. Similar build, strengths and weaknesses, similar numbers, taking injuries and role limitations out of a projection equation and their probably almost identical or at the very least similar. I’m sure there are other metrics out there.

Honestly I don’t know what some of you think he’ll turn into, but if the AB we get is MCW pre injuries I’d be good with that. Decent back up with a willingness to shoot a spot up 3pt shot which is a leg up on MCW.

I remember you going on and on about drafting James Bouknght. That didn't work out for you because you have a poor evaluation of young players. You are wrong about Black, too. Time will tell.

I wasn't wrong about Vuc and Fournier. Neither players are winners. Vuc teams have been the same for the last 10 years. Always struggling to be medicre, but they always fall short


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First I don’t remember the JB thing, Second We didn’t draft him so IDC. Your argument, was that Bamba was our “center of the future.” Not that NV and EF were winners or not.

EDIT: Yes, there was some mention of the guy that went 11th, and who posters had between 7-9 on their draft boards…. It looks like MANY were wrong about Bouknight.

It’s also the same draft thread where I ultimately settled on Franz Wagner and Suggs…and where you made the argument that Giddy was the next Luka:.. THAT 2021 Draft…

My evaluation of young talent is probably on par with most which as of late supersedes yours considering I was just recently 1000% accurate about Mohamed Bamba.

You also can’t tell me I’m wrong about Black then say time will tell, least of all without your rebuttal. As it turns out yelling “you wrong yo.” Doesn’t really prove anything which you’ve done twice now as you disparage others ability to evaluate talent while striking out yourself.

Didn't you disparage me about my evaluation of young players to begin with? I questioned your ability to look at age when evaluating players because that was one of your Bouknght arguments that age didn't matter.

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[pepe1991]

It's impressive how much you miss every "point " you make,can't argue any actual argument with facts, nor prove any of my point wrong, so you bring new ones?

Where to start ?

Claim 1. Gordon makes money than Vuc. No s*** , one is 34 years old, other is 29 on contender that can't sign anybody in FA due aprons. Can only re sign own players.

Claim 2. Bulls better before Vuc? Lie. 22-43 season prior trade, 31-41 mid season trade, 46-36 full year with Vuc. After that Lonzo got hurt and that team never played again as unit.

Claim 3. "We wouldn't have won with Bamba or Vuc."- still not ready to take that Bamba L and move on? Bro, you claimed he will be star and DPOY

You always lean towards the European players. You'll probably tell me Da Silva is a better shooter than Black. Black has shot 317 from 3 on more shots than Da Silva. TDS shoots 309, and those looks he's been getting are wide open. Black is 3 years younger than Da Silva

This is epic. Where did i say a single word about Da Silva? And guy isn't even European player, he is as much as European as he is South American.
i don't give a flying F about Da Silva. He is mid tear pick, low investment, replacement level player. Black was 6th overall pick.
But even within argument what's the argument you trying to make? That Black in year and half shot more threes than Da Silva in 39 games?

Tritan Da Silva in 39 games made 47 threes.
Anthony Black in 108 games made 59 threes.

it's hilarious that you actually believe this is "good " argument for your behalf.

[basketballRob]

It's impressive how much you miss every "point " you make,can't argue any actual argument with facts, nor prove any of my point wrong, so you bring new ones?

Where to start ?

Claim 1. Gordon makes money than Vuc. No s*** , one is 34 years old, other is 29 on contender that can't sign anybody in FA due aprons. Can only re sign own players.

Claim 2. Bulls better before Vuc? Lie. 22-43 season prior trade, 31-41 mid season trade, 46-36 full year with Vuc. After that Lonzo got hurt and that team never played again as unit.

Claim 3. "We wouldn't have won with Bamba or Vuc."- still not ready to take that Bamba L and move on? Bro, you claimed he will be star and DPOY

You always lean towards the European players. You'll probably tell me Da Silva is a better shooter than Black. Black has shot 317 from 3 on more shots than Da Silva. TDS shoots 309, and those looks he's been getting are wide open. Black is 3 years younger than Da Silva

This is epic. Where did i say a single word about Da Silva? And guy isn't even European player, he is as much as European as he is South American.
i don't give a flying F about Da Silva. He is mid tear pick, low investment, replacement level player. Black was 6th overall pick.
But even within argument what's the argument you trying to make? That Black in year and half shot more threes than Da Silva in 39 games?

Tritan Da Silva in 39 games made 47 threes.
Anthony Black in 108 games made 59 threes.

it's hilarious that you actually believe this is "good " argument for your behalf.

Aaron Gordon can play a role on a contending team, and Vuc can't.

I've always thought that Vuc was a loser, and I've been confirmed about that theory. Bamba offered rim protection, which I've always felt was missing on the Magic. That's why I like Goga more than Wendell.

You are correct. Black has shot more 3s at a higher percentage than TDS while being 3 years younger.




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