Snakebites wrote:I don't actually think the Celtics are that OP in this iteration. I think what made them OP in the last one was they fit with everyone- so Flaco had no fit challenges at all. Now that we're choosing our own teams we're picking cores that fit together.
I was blessed to get the team with strong MVP, 1st team, 2nd team, supporting all-stars and non all-star and tons of good fitting stars, however it was harder to improve any of those categories so some people may be able to have used the 2nd round to catch up (hopefully not).
Clippers are pretty strong in this format and were unfortunate (random?) omission from the last game.
I didn't expect to go non Bird when I started but I basically had to replace one of Bird, Tatum or Pierce to get an extra Celtic and have any value out of Round 2, and Tatum and Pierce's pools got emptied out, so Wilt, Hakeem and in unlikely case he fell Lebron builds ended up seeming the best to me. Although because I ended up getting Jimmy I'd still have a Bird route available to me if I wanted to just do flaco's build with him, which for all I know could end up more popular instead of Richmond, but I don't think I'm going to do it.
Clippers were ommited from last format because they are second to last in all time win loss record. Same for Minny which is last
Notice all - clock will start tomorrow 9am EDT and not before that! (sometimes people assume the clock starts at the end of round one without anybody mentioning it explicitly)
Also I set the time window for a pick to 3 hours since this is only a two round draft plus the picks here may take some planning because you're basically preparing half of your team. Also, the clock stops at 11:00 p.m. You are of course encouraged to pick as soon as you can rather than using all your clock, when possible.
Please complete your picks and roster pages by 4pm EDT tomorrow
Please send me your rankings of the top 5 other teams for this draft by pm. Make sure to be explicit about who is first so I don't have doubts.
wackbone wrote:This feels like one of those drafts where the bottom of the order’s best bet was one thing and the top was another, aka many talented franchises fell to the top picks who already had the best franchises.
Personally, I was initially thinking of NOT using MJ for my Cat 1 but instead going like Pippen/Butler/Caruso/Kukoc (or similar) and then maybe Portland with Walton/Porter/something, or Houston with Hakeem, something like that. Then I figured would probably be smartest to have MJ particularly when this is the ONLY MJ being used.
So after hours of digging last night I ended up with two possibilities, Detroit or Houston. Billups/MJ/Pippen/Kukoc/Lanier with Caruso and two Pistons off the bench, or Harper/MJ/Pippen/Horry/Yao with Caruso, Battier, and Thorpe off the bench. I figured it’s better to have better 3rd/4th guys than 7th/8th, even if the 7th/8th gap is much larger, and I largely prefer the spacing around MJ with the Rockets version but there’s still both Yao and Thorpe getting big minutes. We shall see!
I also tried something with the Rockets of CP3/MJ/Tomjanovich/Battier/Gilmore or something along those lines, but didn’t think that would be a great fitting MJ team.
I forgot about Lanier. That Bulls core with him and Chauncey is ridiculous.
Comments to rationalize bad contracts - 1) It's less than the MLE 2) He can be traded later 3) It's only __% of the cap 4) The cap is going up 5) It's only __ years 6) He's a good mentor/locker room guy
Mourning LeBron Butler (or E. Jones) Matthews Porter
Thought the first had better fit, though maybe less talent.
Comments to rationalize bad contracts - 1) It's less than the MLE 2) He can be traded later 3) It's only __% of the cap 4) The cap is going up 5) It's only __ years 6) He's a good mentor/locker room guy
I found this really hard, as always. I had eight different teams in and out of the top five; some I ranked near the top at one time or another didn't even make my final top five. So apologies to everyone I didn't rank.
Roster G Ja Morant '22: 27/6/7, on 49/34/76 shooting, +6 BPM, MIP, All-Star, All-NBA 2nd, 7th in MVP G Michael Cooper '87: 11/3/5, 39 3P%, +2 BPM, All-D 1st, DPOY, NBA Champ G/F Shane Battier '03: 10/4, 40 3P%, +2 BPM G/F Magic Johnson '85: 18/6/13/2 on 64 TS%, All-NBA 1st, 2nd in MVP, NBA Champ F Solomon Hill '20: 11/6/3/1 per 36, 37 3P% F Robert Horry '99: 5/4/2/1/1, 44 3P%, +2 BPM F/C Anthony Davis '20: 26/9/3/2/2 on 50/33/85, +8 BPM, All-D 1st, All-NBA 1st, 6th in MVP, NBA Champ C/F Jaren Jackson Jr. '23: 19/7 on 51/36/79 shooting, 3 BPG, +3 BPM, All-Star, DPOY
FGA, Franchises, Categories, etc.:
Spoiler:
Franchises: Lakers, Grizzlies Category 1: Magic (Lakers, 11.7) Category 2: Davis (Lakers, 17.7) Category 3: Morant (Grizzlies, 20.6), Jackson Jr. (Grizzlies, 13.0) Category 4: Battier (Grizzlies, 7.3), Cooper (Lakers, 9.0), Hill (Grizzlies, 4.7), Horry (Lakers, 3.8) Total FGA: 87.8
Rotation: G Morant 38 / Cooper 10 G Battier 28 / Cooper 20 F Magic 38 / Battier 2 / Hill 8 F Davis 24 / Horry 24 C Jackson Jr. 34 / Davis 14
About Team Square: Dominant offensively and defensively.
On offense, Magic and Ja are both electric playmakers who thrive in speed and chaos. In transition, with Magic leading, Ja flying up the floor, and Davis and our shooters trailing, we're unstoppable. In the halfcourt, Magic and Ja are getting in the lane, setting up our bigs, and kicking out to our many shooters. If you try to overhelp or shade on, say, a Magic/Davis action on one side of the floor, the greatest passer of all time is finding any seam in your defense. A skip pass to Ja lets him attack a scrambling defense, which he is absolutely elite at; Ja's finishing ability and "catch and go" game is in the end the main reason I took the Grizz over other teams with all-star ballhandlers. (Go ahead and treat yourself to this https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ja+morant+2022 and imagine what Magic could do with a guard who runs 100 mph and can finish lobs above the rim.)
On the other end, Davis/Jackson form a ridiculous defensive duo, both capable of walling off the rim or moving their feet on the perimeter. Battier, Horry, and Coop (in his DPOY season) are high-level defenders across the perimeter. With that backup of elite rim protection, Magic and Ja will force turnovers and fuel that insane transition game.
Pretty happy with this squad, let's see how it goes.
10. lilroddyb - 7 points
lilroddyb wrote:C: Victor Wembanyama 36min / Derrick Favors 12min PF: Andrei Kirilenko 38 min / Bryon Russell 10 min Sf: Kawhi Leonard 38min / Danny Green 10 min Sg: Danny Green 22 min / Manu Ginobili 26min Pg: John Stockton 38 min / Manu Ginobili 10 min
2005 Manu Ginobili 10.5 2024 Victor Wembanyama 16.7 2014 Danny Green 7.4 2017 Kawhi Leonard 17.7 2004 Andrei Kirilenko 11.9 1991 John Stockton 11.9 1996 Bryon Russell 3 2017 Derrick Favors 8.3
tfga: 87.4
9. MadNess - 8 points
MadNESS wrote:PG: Jason Kidd (40) | Shaun Livingston (8) SG: Klay Thompson (36) | Bruce Brown (12) SF: Mikal Bridges (36) | Bruce Brown (12) PF: Kevin Durant (40) | Draymond Green (8) Cc: Draymond Green (30) | Nic Claxton (18)
01’-02’ Jason Kidd - 13.9 FGA All NBA 1 14’-15’ Klay Thompson - 16.9 FGA All NBA 3 Champ 23’-24’ Mikal Bridges - 15.8 FGA 16’-17’ Kevin Durant - 16.5 FGA All NBA 2 | Champ 16’-17’ Draymond Green - 8.6 FGA All NBA 3 | DPOY | Champ 21’-22’ Bruce Brown - 7.0 FGA 3 & D 18’-19’ Shaun Livingston - 3.3 FGA Mid Range & D 21’-22’ Nic Claxton - 5.6 FGA - 8/6/1/1 Hustle
Total: 87.6 | 88.0 FGA
Category 1: MVP - Durant Category 2: All NBA 1 - Kidd Category 3: 2 All Stars - Klay, Draymond, Category 4: 4 Non All Stars - Livingston, Bridges, Brown, Claxton
8. Fadeaway_J - 9 points
Fadeaway_J wrote:Starters C - Tyson Chandler (2010-11)
Spoiler:
10.1 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 0.4 apg, 0.5 spg, 1.1 bpg, .654 FG%, .732 FT%, .697 TS% - Led the NBA in TS% - NBA Champion - All-Defensive Second Team
PF - Dirk Nowitzki (2010-11)
Spoiler:
23.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 2.6 apg, 0.5 spg, 0.6 bpg, .517 FG%, .393 3P%, .892 FT%, 66 3P (0.9 pg), .612 TS% - NBA Champion - NBA Finals MVP - NBA All-Star - All-NBA Second Team
SF - Luka Doncic (2023-24)
Spoiler:
33.9 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 9.8 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.5 bpg, .487 FG%, .382 3P%, .786 FT%, 284 3P (4.1 pg), .617 TS% - Led the NBA in ppg - NBA All-Star - All-NBA First Team
FGA Per Player Luka Doncic - 23.6 (Mavericks) Dirk Nowitzki - 16.2 (Mavericks) Kyle Lowry - 12.1 (Raptors) OG Anunoby - 8.2 (Raptors) Danny Green - 7.9 (Raptors) Morris Peterson - 7.3 (Raptors) Tyson Chandler - 5.5 (Mavericks) Maxi Kleber - 5.5 (Mavericks)
Total: 86.3/88.0
7. Laimbeer - 11 points
Laimbeer wrote: Arvydas Sabonis ( 1996 ) 9.9 LeBron James ( 2013 ) 17.8 Eddie Jones ( 2001 ) 13.8 Clyde Drexler ( 1991 ) 16.3 Terry Porter ( 1991 ) 11.7
Marcus Camby ( 2011 ) 5.0 PJ Tucker ( 2022 ) 6.0 Mario Chalmers ( 2013 ) 6.9
87.4
Arvydas Sabonis (36) / Marcus Camby (12) LeBron James (38) / PJ Tucker (10) Eddie Jones (30) / PJ Tucker (18) Clyde Drexler (38) / Eddie Jones (10) Terry Porter (38) / Mario Chalmers (10)
6. Snakebites - 16 points
Snakebites wrote:
Clippers:
20-21 Kawhi Leonard 17.5 FGA (Category 1)- All NBA First 12-13 Chris Paul 12.2 FGA (Category 2)- All NBA First, All Defensive First 05-06 Elton Brand 18.2 FGA (Category 3)- All NBA 2nd 20-21 Nicolas Batum 6.1 FGA (Category 4)
Pacers:
97-98 Reggie Miller 13.3 FGA (Category 3)- All NBA 2nd 17-18 Myles Turner 9.4 FGA (Category 4) 13-14 George Hill 8.1 FGA (Category 4) 06-07 Jeff Foster 3.5 FGA (Category 4)
durantbird wrote:Oklahoma City Thunder / Seattle Supersonics
Spoiler:
Category 1: Kevin Durant / Russell Westbrook / James Harden / Dennis Johnson Category 2: Shai Gilgeous Alexander / Chris Paul / Paul George / Gary Payton Category 3: Ray Allen / Rashard Lewis / Shawn Kemp / Detlef Schrempf / Jack Sikma Category 4: Chet Holmgren / Jalen Williams / Steven Adams / Serge Ibaka / Nate McMillan / Thabo Sefolosha / Brent Barry / Lu Dort
Cleveland Cavaliers
Spoiler:
Category 1: LeBron James Category 2: Mark Price Category 3: Kyrie Irving / Donovan Mitchell / Kevin Love / Jarrett Allen / Dan Majerle / Ben Wallace / Darius Garland / Kyle Korver Category 4: Evan Mobley / Anderson Varejao / Richard Jefferson / Craig Ehlo / Jae Crowder / Tristan Thompson / Steve Kerr / Matthew Dellavedova / Ron Harper
PG: Kyrie Irving 15' - 16.5 SG: Paul George 18' - 17.0 SF: LeBron James 18' - 19.3 PF: Kevin Love 18' - 12.4 C: Chet Holmgren 24' - 11.6
Rotation: PG: Kyrie Irving 38 / Nate McMillan 10 SG: Paul George 36 / Nate McMillan 12 SF: LeBron James 24 / Thabo Sefolosha 22 / Paul George 2 PF: Kevin Love 32 / LeBron James 16 C: Chet Holmgren 36 / Anderson Varejao 8 / Kevin Love 4
4. flaco - 18 points
flaco wrote:
Rotations PG: Chauncey Billups (36) / Jalen Suggs (12) SG: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (36) / Jalen Suggs (12) SF: Tracy McGrady (38) / Jonathan Isaac (10) PF: Bobby Jones (38) / Jonathan Isaac (10) C: Nikola Jokic (38) / Marcin Gortat (10)
Offense Jokic and T-Mac complement each other perfetly. Jokic excels at facilitating, but can also carry the scoring load if necessary. T-Mac excels at scoring, but is also an underrated facilitator. Billups is a terrific 3rd option. He's happy to play off the ball allowing the big 2 to thrive in their roles. Bobby Jones should thrive as a cutter alongside Jokic.
Defense Bobby Jones led the league in DBPM in his selected season. I'd argue he's the old school version of peak Kirilenko. Can provide cover for Jokic both when defending in space and above the rim. Billups, Suggs and KCP share POA duties, depending on matchups. Both my PGs are versatile defenders who can either switch on wings or fight through picks in the PnR allowing Jokic to play in a drop coverage.
FGA 2009 Chauncey Billups 12.4 2023 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 8.3 2003 Tracy McGrady 24.2 1977 Bobby Jones 10.7 2023 Nikola Jokic 14.8 2024 Jalen Suggs 9.5 2024 Jonathan Isaac 4.9 2010 Marcin Gortat 3.0
Total: 87.8
3. wackbone - 19 points
wackbone wrote:Chicago Bulls Tier One - Michael Jordan - 1991 - 22.4 FGA - MVP, All-Defensive 1st Tier Two - Scottie Pippen - 1996 - 15.8 FGA - 5th in MVP, 37.4 3P% on 5.2 att, All-Defensive 1st, 2nd in DPOY Tier Four - Toni Kukoc - 1996 - 9.7 FGA - 6MOY, 40.3 3P% on 2.7 att Tier Four - Alex Caruso - 2023 - 4.3 FGA - 36.4 3P% on 2.3 att, All-Defensive 1st
Detroit Pistons Tier Three - Chauncey Billups - 2006 - 12.5 FGA - 5th in MVP Voting, 43.3 3P% on 5.2 att, All-Defensive 2nd Tier Three - Bob Lanier - 1974 - (18.3x0.85) 15.6 FGA - 3rd in MVP Voting Tier Four - Rick Mahorn - 1986 - 4.3 FGA - Future All-Defensive 2nd Tier Four - Jonas Jerebko - 2014 - 3.3 FGA - 41.9 3P% on 1.2 att
Total: 87.9/88 FGA
Rotations: Chauncey Billups (38) / Alex Caruso (10) Michael Jordan (34) / Alex Caruso (14) Scottie Pippen (38) / Michael Jordan (6) / Toni Kukoc (4) Toni Kukoc (30) / Jonas Jerebko (10) / Rick Mahorn (8) Bob Lanier (38) / Rick Mahorn (10)
2. Larry_Russell - 20 points
Larry_Russell wrote:PG: Chris Paul (2020-21) 12.6 16.5ppg, 4.5rpg, 8.9apg, 1.4spg, 39.5% on 3.7-3pta MVP-5, NBA-2, AS
SG: Ray Allen (2000-01) 16 22ppg, 5.2rpg, 4.6apg, 1.5spg, 43.5% on 5.7-3pta MVP-11, NBA-3, AS
SG: Danny Green (2021: 7.9 FGA) SF: Robert Covington (2018: 10.5 FGA) C: P.J. Tucker (2023: 3.0 FGA)
88/ 88
PG: Jrue Holiday (36) / Derrick White (12) SG: Derrick White (22) / Danny Green (22) / Paul Pierce (4) SF: Paul Pierce (34) / Robert Covington (14) PF: Jayson Tatum (38) / Robert Covington (6) / P.J. Tucker (4) C: Wilt Chamberlain (40) / P.J. Tucker (8)
Complete team around Wilt with Holiday and White playing off the playmaking version of Wilt, Tatum and Pierce as 2nd/3rd options and great inside/out game overall. Holiday, White and Tatum have chemistry together. Solid 3 and D bench in Green, Roco and Tucker. Championship season White as 5th best player and in his exact role is an advantage over other teams worst starters. The most talented team in the draft and should have great chemistry and fit together.
Hmm. I'm not surpised by the middling finish in this one- I don't think any ranking would have shocked me in this one with so many strong teams. What I am surprised by is how polarizing my team was- some people had it at or near the top, others ignored it completely.
I’d have won with Rockets build as well as I was planning Paul, White, Pierce, Horford, Hakeem and great bench options (20 FGA+ and a Celtic available), and Larry finished 2nd with older Paul/Allen/Giannis build. Rockets and Sixers falling to Celtics was too strong to miss.
It's going to be a glorious day... I feel my luck could change
