RGM GOAT Debate Thread (Part 2)

[Anderson Hunt]

All the best dunkers competed in the dunk contest.

Jordan was ultra-competitive, for sure, but being in the dunk contest was commonplace back in the day. All the good, athletic guys competed. It was the culture.

Nowadays players want to protect their reputation. In the olden days, players let the chips fall where they may.

[ryguy613]

it's simply proof of lebron's insecurity and maybe some that came after him. not much else.

didnt take long for us to get to the real reason this thread exists lol

[Capn'O]

No one's pointed out that the dunk contest in the 80s always had lots of stars, it was just a different era and different culture then. In '85 for example you had MJ, Clyde Drexler, Michael Jordan, Darrell Griffith, Orlando Woolridge, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Nance and Dr J. Basically every sick dunker who was famous. Also had all-stars like George Gervin, David Thompson, Artis Gilmore, etc consistently in the mix then.

People made good pts about how stars don't need it as much now, but this sort of thing happens all the time with culture, esp among famous people. Some thing is THE thing to do or compete and everyone cares about it, until they don't.

Exactly right. For a long time, the dunk contest held serious cache which it just doesn't now. For one thing, most of the doable dunks have been done so now you either do an established dunk or you do some BS like jump over a car.

Vince Carter was actually right. After his dunks the contest was over. With respect to Gordon and Lavine; a good show.

[ryguy613]

No one's pointed out that the dunk contest in the 80s always had lots of stars, it was just a different era and different culture then. In '85 for example you had MJ, Clyde Drexler, Michael Jordan, Darrell Griffith, Orlando Woolridge, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Nance and Dr J. Basically every sick dunker who was famous. Also had all-stars like George Gervin, David Thompson, Artis Gilmore, etc consistently in the mix then.

People made good pts about how stars don't need it as much now, but this sort of thing happens all the time with culture, esp among famous people. Some thing is THE thing to do or compete and everyone cares about it, until they don't.

Exactly right. For a long time, the dunk contest held serious cache which it just doesn't now. For one thing, most of the doable dunks have been done so now you either do an established dunk or you do some BS like jump over a car.

Vince Carter was actually right. After his dunks the contest was over.

[Optms]

Players are so soft today that Jordan competing in a 30 minute meaningless event now adds to his competitiveness aura. Smh.

[Capn'O]

Also, did LeBron really have show dunks that we need to see? He's a great in game dunker but I see him as a guy like Kemp who didn't have much else to bring to the contest.

I remember being so excited for Kemp and then pretty disappointed by what he brought.

[Big J]

Also, did LeBron really have show dunks that we need to see? He's a great in game dunker but I see him as a guy like Kemp who didn't have much else to bring to the contest.

Yes, Lebron used to throw down sicks dunks in the layup lines before games around the time of the All-Star game just to taunt fans.

[HotelVitale]

No one's pointed out that the dunk contest in the 80s always had lots of stars, it was just a different era and different culture then. In '85 for example you had MJ, Clyde Drexler, Michael Jordan, Darrell Griffith, Orlando Woolridge, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Nance and Dr J. Basically every sick dunker who was famous. Also had all-stars like George Gervin, David Thompson, Artis Gilmore, etc consistently in the mix then.

People made good pts about how stars don't need it as much now, but this sort of thing happens all the time with culture, esp among famous people. Some thing is THE thing to do or compete and everyone cares about it, until they don't.

Wasn't that like the first or second one ever? Of course the first couple had more big names. The 1986 winner was rookie Spud Webb.

Started in 1976 and recharged in '84, and the big stars were playing into the 90s. Became less usual at that time for legit AS guys to join, then had a wave or two of some younger stars (e.g. Vince and Steve Francis for a few years) that wasn't steady or regular.

Also I never said it was all just superstars, just that stars who were also famously sick dunkers often participated then in a way they don't now. Also not sure why Spud Webb winning would be any knock, he's a completely captivating dunker and would beat anyone in competitions.

[dhsilv2]

No one's pointed out that the dunk contest in the 80s always had lots of stars, it was just a different era and different culture then. In '85 for example you had MJ, Clyde Drexler, Michael Jordan, Darrell Griffith, Orlando Woolridge, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Nance and Dr J. Basically every sick dunker who was famous. Also had all-stars like George Gervin, David Thompson, Artis Gilmore, etc consistently in the mix then.

People made good pts about how stars don't need it as much now, but this sort of thing happens all the time with culture, esp among famous people. Some thing is THE thing to do or compete and everyone cares about it, until they don't.

Wasn't that like the first or second one ever? Of course the first couple had more big names. The 1986 winner was rookie Spud Webb.

Started in 1976 and recharged in '84, and the big stars were playing into the 90s. Became less usual at that time for legit AS guys to join, then had a wave or two of some younger stars (e.g. Vince and Steve Francis for a few years) that wasn't steady or regular.

Also I never said it was all just superstars, just that stars who were also famously sick dunkers often participated then in a way they don't now. Also not sure why Spud Webb winning would be any knock, he's a completely captivating dunker and would beat anyone in competitions.

Well Spud is far from a star. Certainly a fun dunker, but I'd argue we have that today. The point was that we mostly saw younger guys who weren't yet stars if they would ever become one. Now you had Wilken's who kept doing them. You're rightin 1990 we had a pretty solid Pippen entry. But look at even 1991.

Kemp - legit up and comer but he wouldn't be an allstar until 1993. So he only did the contest as an allstar in 1994 I think.
Dee Brown
Rex Champman
Blue Edwards
Kenny Smith
Otis Smith
Kendall Gill
Kenny Williams

1993
Clarence Weatherspoon
Kenny Smith
Tim Perry
Cedric Ceballos
David Benoit
Harold Miner
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf

I mean...stars?

1986
Wilkins - legit star
Spud Webb
Terence Stansbury
Gerald Wilkins
Jerome Kersey
Paul Pressey
Roy Hinson
Terry Tyler

Now yes 1988 was pretty cool with MJ, Wilkins, and Drexler so I get it, we did have some big names in there at times. But it's not like every year it was always sure fire guys who'd become stars.

[Bergmaniac]

Jordan's stans are the most insecure people in the world.

[MrPainfulTruth]

MJ did the dunk contest because he wanted to be better than everyone at everything, and he wanted to prove how great he was. There wasn’t much financial incentive back then either, and he possibly could have sprained an ankle or something, but he just didn’t gaf because he wanted to be the best.

I've been pointing this out for years now. But i'm sure we'll see the entire brigade of LBJ fanboys and influencers come to his rescue and explain in length why it was reasonable for the showboat to not once compete on his own, without a coach or team to throw under the bus should he fail.

If anyone pushes MJ off his MVP throne it will be someone as competetive as he was. Not a soft flopper or selfie poser. I could see the fire in Kobe. I could see it in KG. I even saw it in Dirk. THose guys had the spirit but not the talent. Others have a lot of talent but not nearly his desire to dominate, no need to name names.

Now i see it in Jokic. He wont do the dunk contest but maybe he'll shoot in the 3pt contest, and if he does, he'll put everything into it.

[MrPainfulTruth]

LeBron definitely should have done it

I don't know why he didn't, but it is what it is

You dont? THought its obvious.

Do you know how LBJ had a camp and got dunked on, and then have all cameras and phones confiscated and all videos deleted (one still got out if you are curious)?

He is extremely insecure and mentally weak. He fears to lose. Thats why he gave up competing and built superteams. This isnt an isolated thing, its a piece that fits perfectly in the big picture.

This is what a champ looks like:

https://youtu.be/pKTLxG0wGfg?si=CDHpE6PgaGICjAk_

[scrabbarista]

Oh oh I see this is supposed to be a topic about ragging on LeBron for never doing the dunk contest?

Yeah the people expressing those opinions are exactly why he and no other star caliber players want to do it anymore. There's no point when no matter what they do they're going to get made fun of and fans will cry about it.

MJ did it back when fans favorite pastime wasn't crying and acting spoiled at all times.

This paragraph is kind of the point. "People might make fun of me" stops some players from doing things, and doesn't stop others.

The irony is that the former type ends up getting made fun of the most.

[scrabbarista]

Also, did LeBron really have show dunks that we need to see? He's a great in game dunker but I see him as a guy like Kemp who didn't have much else to bring to the contest.

Yes, Lebron used to throw down sicks dunks in the layup lines before games around the time of the All-Star game just to taunt fans.

Maybe James didn't participate not because he couldn't win (he could), but because he couldn't win versus MJ, who he always thought of as his real competition; he knew his dunks would be compared to Jordan's.

Pure (educated) speculation; all we know for sure is James ducked the contest for his entire career.

[The Explorer]

James in 2009:

“Right now I'm preliminarily putting my name in the 2010 contest Saturday night. LeBron James is saying, in 2010 in Dallas Stadium, I’m putting my name [preliminarily] in the dunk contest.”

James also played a part in the downfalll of the all-star game.

Stephen A Smith recently said last year at the all-star game, Larry Bird came in and spoke to the players and implored them to play hard. James basically gave him the side eye and dismissed Bird's comments.

He has a big hand in the lack of competitiveness of all-star weekend and in landscape of the NBA. He's been the face of the league for long time and him not caring to compete has permeated to the rest of the players.

[NbaAllDay]

LeBron definitely should have done it

I don't know why he didn't, but it is what it is

You dont? THought its obvious.

Do you know how LBJ had a camp and got dunked on, and then have all cameras and phones confiscated and all videos deleted (one still got out if you are curious)?

He is extremely insecure and mentally weak. He fears to lose. Thats why he gave up competing and built superteams. This isnt an isolated thing, its a piece that fits perfectly in the big picture.

This is what a champ looks like:

https://youtu.be/pKTLxG0wGfg?si=CDHpE6PgaGICjAk_

Relax my guy.

The only thing painful around here are your takes.

[MrPainfulTruth]

LeBron definitely should have done it

I don't know why he didn't, but it is what it is

You dont? THought its obvious.

Do you know how LBJ had a camp and got dunked on, and then have all cameras and phones confiscated and all videos deleted (one still got out if you are curious)?

He is extremely insecure and mentally weak. He fears to lose. Thats why he gave up competing and built superteams. This isnt an isolated thing, its a piece that fits perfectly in the big picture.

This is what a champ looks like:

https://youtu.be/pKTLxG0wGfg?si=CDHpE6PgaGICjAk_

Relax my guy.

The only thing painful around here are your takes.

i know the truth hurts sometimes.

[NbaAllDay]

MJ did the dunk contest because he wanted to be better than everyone at everything, and he wanted to prove how great he was. There wasn’t much financial incentive back then either, and he possibly could have sprained an ankle or something, but he just didn’t gaf because he wanted to be the best.

werent you literally JUST complaining about people making off season threads in the middle of an nba season? and after that, you unironically decided this thread was a good idea?

This is relevant to the season because the dunk contest competitors were just announced.

You are directly referencing a dunk contest from 30 years ago with no reference to the present day or current contest.

BRB going to make a thread about the Bulls win/loss record in 1995 because there is a Bulls team currently playing in the NBA so it's relevant.

[Rust_Cohle]

MJ at 40: 77th defensive rating

Lebron at 40: 445th defensive rating

Oof

Do you even know what defensive rating is, rust?

Yeah, it’s where LeBron has been nose diving.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lebron-james-defensive-rating-in-career

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Sure.

He was pathologically competitive. We know this. It doesn’t really make him more or less impressive than someone else though.

Vince Carter wasn’t a shining example of competitive fire, and he competed in the dunk contest too.

I do think it’s a travesty as a fan that LeBron never competed, but whatever, it’s the dunk contest. People making overarching conclusions about his mental toughness and using it as a reason for Jordan being better is silly. It’s like using the All-Star game as proof of anything.

I mean, I do think there is something to it though.

Too afraid to compete in the dunk contest.

Had to form a super team so he could win easy titles with very little competition. “Not one, not two, not three.” The fact that they lost with that team is appalling.

Sitting out a bunch of games because it’s regular season, so who cares. I get it, but there’s just a lot of evidence out there that LeBron doesn’t have that ultra competitive streak.

Some view it as a knock, others don’t care, he’s clearly great either way, but there’s definitely something to it.