2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[canada_dry]

They are not struggling?

OK...thank you have a good one.

10 games above .500. 4th in the conference. Home court advantage as of right now. And the turnaround has clearly coincided with Murray playing at another level from the beginning of the season.

Adios.

They went 7-3, then are 1-3 their last 4, even with Murray playing great. They're still figuring it out.

Sure but the seasons gone from on the brinks of disaster to everyone calm down they're gonna be fine now. Murray looks like himself. They're probably the biggest threat to okc in the west.

Its night and day from earlier this season.

[MrPainfulTruth]

They are not struggling?

OK...thank you have a good one.

10 games above .500. 4th in the conference. Home court advantage as of right now. And the turnaround has clearly coincided with Murray playing at another level from the beginning of the season.

Adios.

They went 7-3, then are 1-3 their last 4, even with Murray playing great. They're still figuring it out.

Come on. Is noone actually watching the games any more?

They barely beat the hornets. THE HORNETS! They were behind with seconds on the clock and only heroics of Jokic saved them. Barely beat the sixers without eight of their best players. The sixers guards scored at will on Murray, they scored 134 points. Again Joker had to show up big in the end to save the game. Lost to knicks, got crushed by the wolves (again). Do not look at W/L, do not look at simple box scores to understand whats going on with the team. Murray stops the offensive flow, dribbles the air out of the ball, then turns it over or takes a contested shot. Even if he hits them he takes his team completely out of their flow. Most times he dramatically falls to the floor and comes to defense 5 sec late, leaving his team play 4 on 5. Often stays to whine to the refs or pout about his missing calls.

This Nuggets team is wasting the peak of the best player in the league to give Murray his playground. It really reminds me of OKC with Russ and KD.

[Infinite Llamas]

10 games above .500. 4th in the conference. Home court advantage as of right now. And the turnaround has clearly coincided with Murray playing at another level from the beginning of the season.

Adios.

They went 7-3, then are 1-3 their last 4, even with Murray playing great. They're still figuring it out.

Come on. Is noone actually watching the games any more?

They barely beat the hornets. THE HORNETS! They were behind with seconds on the clock and only heroics of Jokic saved them. Barely beat the sixers without eight of their best players. The sixers guards scored at will on Murray, they scored 134 points. Again Joker had to show up big in the end to save the game. Lost to knicks, got crushed by the wolves (again). Do not look at W/L, do not look at simple box scores to understand whats going on with the team. Murray stops the offensive flow, dribbles the air out of the ball, then turns it over or takes a contested shot. Even if he hits them he takes his team completely out of their flow. Most times he dramatically falls to the floor and comes to defense 5 sec late, leaving his team play 4 on 5. Often stays to whine to the refs or pout about his missing calls.

This Nuggets team is wasting the peak of the best player in the league to give Murray his playground. It really reminds me of OKC with Russ and KD.

There are so many plays where Murray gets the ball from Jokic and it seems so obvious to pass him the ball back but he dribbles himself into trouble and forces a tough shot or a turns it over. Happens multiple times every game and you just want to scream at the TV set. Give it back to Jokic!!!! You are right though. He does disrupt the flow. But he can heat up at times and I’m sure that’s why the front office still believes in him.

[sp6r=underrated]

Embiid was on pace to shatter the PER record last season (34.1) before he got hurt (surprise). And then there's this:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season.html

21 of the 35 (60%) best PER seasons ever have occurred in just the last 15-years. 8 of the Top-15 have occurred in the last decade. Hell, if these all hold, 4 different players in just the last 3-years will have authored 7 combined 30+ PER seasons. Insane.

At some point I just have to take these box advanced/composite metrics within the last 5-10 years with a massive grain of salt. It's just awfully hard for me to entertain the notion of "GOAT seasons" without acknowledging/contextualizing these numbers in respect to their era. I can legitimately see a future where a guy like Wemby is putting up something like 30/15/6/4, and he'll somehow lose the MVP to Luka because he puts up a 33/11/10 season on 65% TS lol.

Others have covered the major reasons in this thread but I'll point out the NBA has leverage if it wants to reduce the importance of one individual player.

The reason it is so easy to run play after play through the same player is the NBA's lax to non-existent enforcement of ball-handling/screen rules. If the NBA tightened up those rules, it would be a lot easier for teams to force teams out of running option 1 every play.

[Special_Puppy]

Nuggets fans saying their team sucks as a way to prop up Jokic's MVP case is so funny (FWIW Denver is clearly not bad, but also obviously on the Thunder, Celtics, and Cavs level)

[canada_dry]

They went 7-3, then are 1-3 their last 4, even with Murray playing great. They're still figuring it out.

Come on. Is noone actually watching the games any more?

They barely beat the hornets. THE HORNETS! They were behind with seconds on the clock and only heroics of Jokic saved them. Barely beat the sixers without eight of their best players. The sixers guards scored at will on Murray, they scored 134 points. Again Joker had to show up big in the end to save the game. Lost to knicks, got crushed by the wolves (again). Do not look at W/L, do not look at simple box scores to understand whats going on with the team. Murray stops the offensive flow, dribbles the air out of the ball, then turns it over or takes a contested shot. Even if he hits them he takes his team completely out of their flow. Most times he dramatically falls to the floor and comes to defense 5 sec late, leaving his team play 4 on 5. Often stays to whine to the refs or pout about his missing calls.

This Nuggets team is wasting the peak of the best player in the league to give Murray his playground. It really reminds me of OKC with Russ and KD.

There are so many plays where Murray gets the ball from Jokic and it seems so obvious to pass him the ball back but he dribbles himself into trouble and forces a tough shot or a turns it over. Happens multiple times every game and you just want to scream at the TV set. Give it back to Jokic!!!! You are right though. He does disrupt the flow. But he can heat up at times and I’m sure that’s why the front office still believes in him.

I agree with this. I too think the same at times over the years when i watch then play. Often, in fact.

But that's always been the case. Even in the title winning playoff run. Hes far from perfect player but thats why hes a second option type...He's good for it when he's firing on all cylinders. Which he has been lately.

[Jaqua92]

10 games above .500. 4th in the conference. Home court advantage as of right now. And the turnaround has clearly coincided with Murray playing at another level from the beginning of the season.

Adios.

They went 7-3, then are 1-3 their last 4, even with Murray playing great. They're still figuring it out.

Sure but the seasons gone from on the brinks of disaster to everyone calm down they're gonna be fine now. Murray looks like himself. They're probably the biggest threat to okc in the west.

Its night and day from earlier this season.

Biggest threat to OKC?

I think it's the other way around. OKC won't beat a confident Denver team if Denver is good enough to get the the conference finals. No way

[Jaqua92]

10 games above .500. 4th in the conference. Home court advantage as of right now. And the turnaround has clearly coincided with Murray playing at another level from the beginning of the season.

Adios.

They went 7-3, then are 1-3 their last 4, even with Murray playing great. They're still figuring it out.

Come on. Is noone actually watching the games any more?

They barely beat the hornets. THE HORNETS! They were behind with seconds on the clock and only heroics of Jokic saved them. Barely beat the sixers without eight of their best players. The sixers guards scored at will on Murray, they scored 134 points. Again Joker had to show up big in the end to save the game. Lost to knicks, got crushed by the wolves (again). Do not look at W/L, do not look at simple box scores to understand whats going on with the team. Murray stops the offensive flow, dribbles the air out of the ball, then turns it over or takes a contested shot. Even if he hits them he takes his team completely out of their flow. Most times he dramatically falls to the floor and comes to defense 5 sec late, leaving his team play 4 on 5. Often stays to whine to the refs or pout about his missing calls.

This Nuggets team is wasting the peak of the best player in the league to give Murray his playground. It really reminds me of OKC with Russ and KD.

Did you read what I wrote? Or are you just projecting an idea you want to argue against onto my post?

I said they went 7-3, then 1-3 and that they're "still figuring it out"

I mean, could I have been anymore clear about the stand that they're... Still figuring it out? They haven't been escalational..they'll be fine though

[QPR]

It does feel like Denver fights out of hole even in all of its wins this season. They're rarely straightforward.

[MrPainfulTruth]

They went 7-3, then are 1-3 their last 4, even with Murray playing great. They're still figuring it out.

Come on. Is noone actually watching the games any more?

They barely beat the hornets. THE HORNETS! They were behind with seconds on the clock and only heroics of Jokic saved them. Barely beat the sixers without eight of their best players. The sixers guards scored at will on Murray, they scored 134 points. Again Joker had to show up big in the end to save the game. Lost to knicks, got crushed by the wolves (again). Do not look at W/L, do not look at simple box scores to understand whats going on with the team. Murray stops the offensive flow, dribbles the air out of the ball, then turns it over or takes a contested shot. Even if he hits them he takes his team completely out of their flow. Most times he dramatically falls to the floor and comes to defense 5 sec late, leaving his team play 4 on 5. Often stays to whine to the refs or pout about his missing calls.

This Nuggets team is wasting the peak of the best player in the league to give Murray his playground. It really reminds me of OKC with Russ and KD.

Did you read what I wrote? Or are you just projecting an idea you want to argue against onto my post?

I said they went 7-3, then 1-3 and that they're "still figuring it out"

I mean, could I have been anymore clear about the stand that they're... Still figuring it out? They haven't been escalational..they'll be fine though

You wrote "even with murray playing great". I simply disagree and i dont think if you see the actual games you'll take that away as your impression. Sadly, i also do not see them being fine - they need to make a change on one or two key positions to compete again. Which is very annoying since Joker is visibly better than ever.

[Exp0sed]

10 games above .500. 4th in the conference. Home court advantage as of right now. And the turnaround has clearly coincided with Murray playing at another level from the beginning of the season.

Adios.

They went 7-3, then are 1-3 their last 4, even with Murray playing great. They're still figuring it out.

Come on. Is noone actually watching the games any more?

They barely beat the hornets. THE HORNETS! They were behind with seconds on the clock and only heroics of Jokic saved them. Barely beat the sixers without eight of their best players. The sixers guards scored at will on Murray, they scored 134 points. Again Joker had to show up big in the end to save the game. Lost to knicks, got crushed by the wolves (again). Do not look at W/L, do not look at simple box scores to understand whats going on with the team. Murray stops the offensive flow, dribbles the air out of the ball, then turns it over or takes a contested shot. Even if he hits them he takes his team completely out of their flow. Most times he dramatically falls to the floor and comes to defense 5 sec late, leaving his team play 4 on 5. Often stays to whine to the refs or pout about his missing calls.

This Nuggets team is wasting the peak of the best player in the league to give Murray his playground. It really reminds me of OKC with Russ and KD.

Murray hasn't been good these past 20 games. He had some good scoring nights but his defense has been awful and his shot selection and decision making is detrimental to the team

lol watch the last few mins of the Hornets game, Miles Bridges was bum hunting Murray for 3 straight possesions and scored in all 3. the Hornets targeted the Bridges\Murray matchup exclusively in the crunch

Only in the 4th straight time down, Nuggets adjusted by not switching and keeping AG on Bridges while Murray blitzed and double teamed bridges to get the ball out of his hands. that resulted in Bridges passing to a wide open teamate for 3. they were lucky that teammate was a dude called Simpson (i have no idea who that is) - that won't fly vs. the elite teams when the "others" are all capable and willing shooters

[Jaqua92]

34 points on 19 shots in 22 minutes for SGA.

That's some shameless Joel Embiid like stat padding "I have to score as many points and take as many shots as possible since i won't be playing in the fourth quarter"

[itsxtray]

34 points on 19 shots in 22 minutes for SGA.

That's some shameless Joel Embiid like stat padding "I have to score as many points and take as many shots as possible since i won't be playing in the fourth quarter"

15/19 from the field—when you're that hot, you keep shooting. There's nothing shameless about it. Your Shai hate is genuinely embarrassing. A guy shoots damn near 80% from the field, and all you can do is complain? Ridiculous.

[DrModesty]

34 points on 19 shots in 22 minutes for SGA.

That's some shameless Joel Embiid like stat padding "I have to score as many points and take as many shots as possible since i won't be playing in the fourth quarter"

15/19 from the field—when you're that hot, you keep shooting. There's nothing shameless about it. Your Shai hate is genuinely embarrassing. A guy shoots damn near 80% from the field, and all you can do is complain? Ridiculous.

Shai was out of the game by half way in the third quarter, and for his time in the third quarter the refs swallowed their whistles on him too. Bucks rotation players were just swiping openly at his arms in the open court and it felt like the refs were taking pity on them.

[MaliBrah]

34 points on 19 shots in 22 minutes for SGA.

That's some shameless Joel Embiid like stat padding "I have to score as many points and take as many shots as possible since i won't be playing in the fourth quarter"

Why does Shai make you unhinged?

[azcatz11]

If I had a vote I'm voting JJJ second after SGA. I have seen enough. Dominant defensive player and he does everything on offense for that team. If he was a good rebounder or a scheme rebounder he'd get more talk

[QPR]

If I had a vote I'm voting JJJ second after SGA. I have seen enough. Dominant defensive player and he does everything on offense for that team. If he was a good rebounder or a scheme rebounder he'd get more talk

You can recognise a great player without pretending they're in MVP contention

[CobraCommander]

SGA is still my number 2 in MVP but he is now clearly the 3rd best player on earth behind Jokic 1 and Giannis 2 then SGA is solidly the 3rd now - if he wins a mvp and a ring this year he will moving up the All time ranks

[Castle Black]

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[AleksandarN]

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