2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[AdagioPace]

Yeah no evidence at all Luka wanted out

He would have stayed

This.
A textbook fear-driven decision not specifically based on Doncic, but on past cases. Throwing away your main asset is not the problem if replaced properly. The collective disappointment comes from the urgency and sloppiness shown by the Mavs FO,as if they were discharging a garbage bag.

[Doctor MJ]

What’s the Steelman version for why it was both a good idea to only listen to the Lakers offer for Luka and not the Thunder, Cavs, and Rockets offers

Not saying it’s a good idea - I’d have intended to give Luka the super-max, and if I had to let him go, to get draft picks - but if someone decides they want AD, you can only negotiate with AD’s team.

A question worth trying to answer is:

Was there someone as good or better than AD’s skill set pursue that you could get? I haven’t done an exhaustive search, but I’m skeptical.

Bill Simmons is with everyone else - me included - shocked by this and seeing it a largely straight up trade between two assets who just aren’t in the same tier, but look at where he had Luka and AD as on his list:

4. Luka
5. Tatum
6. Giannis
7. Ant
8. Paulo
9. Mitchell
10. Brunson
11. AD

If you want AD, you want a big who can be your defensive anchor. The only guy who meets that description between Luka and AD is Giannis.

It’s worth asking if the Mavs tried to talk to the Bucks about Giannis, but of course, if I’m the Bucks, do I really think Luka will want to stay in Milwaukee on my team that has old ball handlers at what’s left of its core?

I frankly would also put JJJ above Davis on my list…but I don’t think the Grizz made that deal either.

So I think that if you grant the premise that the Mavs wanted an elite star of a big with great defense, you start finding it’s hard to think of many places that have a guy like AD that they’d be willing to part with.

Doesn’t mean that particular plan was the right one, but I can see how someone could ended up on that chain of reasoning.


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[eminence]

For the Spurs deal, much more whelmed. Fox is good but I struggle seeing him as a dynasty #2. Might've just cut Sacramento and given LaVine a spin at the much lower price point.

[Special_Puppy]

For the Spurs deal, much more whelmed. Fox is good but I struggle seeing him as a dynasty #2. Might've just cut Sacramento and given LaVine a spin at the much lower price point.

Do you not think Fox is a top 20 player?

[sp6r=underrated]

What’s the Steelman version for why it was both a good idea to only listen to the Lakers offer for Luka and not the Thunder, Cavs, and Rockets offers

Management said do this trade within 24 hours, it cannot leak or you will lose your job.

[eminence]

For the Spurs deal, much more whelmed. Fox is good but I struggle seeing him as a dynasty #2. Might've just cut Sacramento and given LaVine a spin at the much lower price point.

Do you not think Fox is a top 20 player?

Don't think so. Never really thought about his exact placement, but that seems a solid bit too high, I'm thinking more somewhere in the 30s.

[sp6r=underrated]

Am I a hater for thinking Durant is approaching Bonds without steroids likeability.

Even sans roids Bonds was better at baseball than Durant was at hoops but both are no question hall of famers. But I find Durant's personality as grating as Bonds was in his day. He's just a total ass and it seems to show up on most teams he plays for.

Do you agree or am I hater?

I was thinking about this because of the Durant-Payton thing and Durant endless tweets going at random fans.

[jalengreen]

Am I a hater for thinking Durant is approaching Bonds without steroids likeability.

Even sans roids Bonds was better at baseball than Durant was at hoops but both are no question hall of famers. But I find Durant's personality as grating as Bonds was in his day. He's just a total ass and it seems to show up on most teams he plays for.

Do you agree or am I hater?

I was thinking about this because of the Durant-Payton thing and Durant endless tweets going at random fans.

I don't think you're a hater for it. He's definitely not doing it to be liked, he's well aware of how it looks. So it seems like a fair reaction to me.

I find him mostly hilarious though. He's often messing around with people on Twitter (like the sports betting stuff). Not always - he definitely is uniquely insecure about his legacy (at least unique in how he expresses that insecurity) but it honestly just makes him seem more human to me so it's not something that leads me to dislike him. The Payton interaction was funny as well, just seemed like friendly trash talk to me.

[eminence]

I've found it difficult to sports dislike anyone recently when there are so many real **** in the world (a fair number of them in sports).

KD's fine in my book, if not a favorite.

[sp6r=underrated]

Obviously no one was playing but a 19-50 1st Quarter is awful, even in the modern NBA. They really need to have a good start once Davis gets there or they could start hemmoraging fans.

If you've read my posts you know I'm convinced this came from ownership. And I believe ownership bet a lot of their fans on this deal.

My understanding is the owner is pushing to legalize a casino in Dallas area. I'm anti-casino so I would vote no but even if I wasn't this deal would make me a no vote just to stick it to the owners.

[Special_Puppy]

Am I a hater for thinking Durant is approaching Bonds without steroids likeability.

Even sans roids Bonds was better at baseball than Durant was at hoops but both are no question hall of famers. But I find Durant's personality as grating as Bonds was in his day. He's just a total ass and it seems to show up on most teams he plays for.

Do you agree or am I hater?

I was thinking about this because of the Durant-Payton thing and Durant endless tweets going at random fans.

I absolutely love Durant's tweeting lol.

Read on Twitter

[MartinToVaught]

Am I a hater for thinking Durant is approaching Bonds without steroids likeability.

Even sans roids Bonds was better at baseball than Durant was at hoops but both are no question hall of famers. But I find Durant's personality as grating as Bonds was in his day. He's just a total ass and it seems to show up on most teams he plays for.

Do you agree or am I hater?

I was thinking about this because of the Durant-Payton thing and Durant endless tweets going at random fans.

I already couldn't stand him before he joined the Warriors.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Durant is just a troll. I wouldn't take he many of comments to heart.

[ronnymac2]

It's interesting. I enjoy a good conspiracy theory every now and again. I also don't have blinders on when seeing the NBA for what it is - and it's not a basketball league.

Yet, I unironically believe that there is no conspiracy here - certainly not on the league level, and not even on the franchise level. All this talk about the new DAL owners playing 5D chess to get a casino okayed or move the franchise sounds so goofy to me.

Trading superstars happens, but it always happens a certain way, and in those instances, there is usually a "conspiracy" in the sense that each side uses media contacts to portray things a certain way. None of the familiar hallmarks exist here.

I think what happened is that this Nico Harrison guy just isn't very smart. I mean, I watched his awkward press conference with Jason Kidd this afternoon. This is the same Nike executive that (in)famously screwed up the company's presentation to the soon-to-be second biggest draw of the generation in Steph Curry. He seems awkward and lacking in charisma. A cursory search on Google shows he was a speaker at that Sloan Analytics event, so we know he's a data dork who probably doesn't have a clue how to build a real basketball team.

It's likely that he ideologically sees team-building in a certain way (which somewhat rationally rejects Luka's real issues, i.e. poor defense and conditioning) and became hyper-focused on nabbing a certain archetype (AD) to the detriment of:

1. Long-term team building (long-term issue)
2. Alienating a fanbase with literally no forethought/planning on how to couch this as a positive in any believable way (long-term and short-term issue)
3. Emotional drain and breach of continuity for current roster and why that is important (short-term issue)
4. Overrating AD's ability to address short-term need (short-term issue)

I mean, they lost by like, 50 points today. It never seemed like Luka was disliked by the current roster. Was no consideration given to chemistry? This guy talks about culture, but...

The only "conspiracy" is between Harrison and Pelinka w/ the very real Nike/Kobe connection, but it's not some hidden relationship, because the guy literally spoke about it today.

I don't even think management gave an ultimatum. They obviously gave their okay, but like...there's zero evidence that the new owners generated this idea.

I think Harrison is just a dumb-dumb.

[Lou Fan]

Barring a mini dynasty from Dallas over the next 3-4 seasons, no chance AD pushes for top 25. Guy has been a B level superstar even when healthy and engaged, and has serious issues in both of those areas.

25 is probably a stretch but if he plays 3-4 more seasons like the last two he's definitely in the 30s and is pushing guys like Harden, Barkley, and Wade who are right around the 25 mark.

[bballcool34]

In the end, i believe the circumstances around this trade are bizarre enough and are provoking enough questions that a league investigation is warranted.

This is nuts and it wouldn't satisfy anyone who is upset about this trade.

Lots of fans are jealous of the Lakers and hate em for their success. Anytime things come up their way a subset of nutballs think it was a conspiracy. If the NBA did an investigation, the people claiming conspiracy will call the investigation a sham.

Teams do stupid stuff is a satisfactory explanation. if you're really this outraged you should just stop following the sport.

But when teams with multi billion dollar valuations and individuals with a lot to lose / gain make moves that aren’t “rational” - then those moves should be investigated by the league. I’m not surprised unfortunately that the media isn’t really calling for this.

It isn't in Luka interests just as it wasn't in Shaq interests to eat terribly, yet they did. It isn't in Draymond interests to focus on the refs during games, yet he does. The NBA would have to do endless investigations if their standard was rational.

Replay review can increase ref complaining because it forces fans to watch 6-7 angles of the same play for 2 minutes while the announcers debate it. and if we did investigations of poor decisions it would add fuel to the fire.

The recourse is simple, don't follow the Mavs. And if you think the commissioner is fixing things stop watching the sport.

Billionaires aren't used to kowtowing to anyone, and they resent when their employees act like divas who hold all the cards.

This I suspect matters a lot. People who own companies are used to being the most important person in every room and having employees adapt to their needs. basketball is a rare workplace where top line talent is much more important than the brand so employees can throw their weight around.

This infuriates a lot of owners. Especially when the player is in the wrong, such as Luka and his diet.

.

They would not have to do “endless” investigations. Most trades have a clear rationale - even the Celtics - Nets one in 2013 or the Pau Gasol trade in 2008. The shock factor around this trade - the most I’ve ever seen in decades - is directly related to the perceived rationality of this trade.

The idea that there shouldnt be an investigation because it might not satisfy conspiracy theorists is silly. The purpose of an investigation is to find the truth not satisfy a fringe group.

[tsherkin]

For the Spurs deal, much more whelmed. Fox is good but I struggle seeing him as a dynasty #2. Might've just cut Sacramento and given LaVine a spin at the much lower price point.

I dunno, they've given some pep and energy to the backcourt. His 2023 self was clearly a little outlier, but he's also not likely to be asked to shoulder 20 FGA/g in San Antonio. Maybe we'll see that drop in volume help out his efficiency. He's a net-positive offensive player, though, and the Spurs could use a little more of that to eke out some competitive advantage at one end of the floor.

[MartinToVaught]

All this talk about the new DAL owners playing 5D chess to get a casino okayed or move the franchise sounds so goofy to me.

We've just seen the Chargers, Rams, A's, and Coyotes use the "Major League" strategy to justify moving their teams over the past decade. If it can happen in other sports, there's nothing goofy about the idea of it happening in the NBA.

Trading superstars happens, but it always happens a certain way, and in those instances, there is usually a "conspiracy" in the sense that each side uses media contacts to portray things a certain way. None of the familiar hallmarks exist here.

The Mavs have been flooding the media with excuses for what they've done.

A cursory search on Google shows he was a speaker at that Sloan Analytics event, so we know he's a data dork who probably doesn't have a clue how to build a real basketball team.

They are literally coming off a Finals appearance.

I don't even think management gave an ultimatum. They obviously gave their okay, but like...there's zero evidence that the new owners generated this idea.

If they weren't on board with this idiotic move, they could have told him no, or fired him if he refused to back down.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Eminence trade grades.

Lakers - A, spectacular work, in the range of neutral for this season, but you've set yourself up very nicely going forward. With a much younger/more marketable/slightly better star.

Mavs - F, AD is a good player, and the pieces aren't of no value. But he's not Luka and you've at best kept your chances the next few seasons neutral while having no real future in ~3 years and tanking your teams marketing value. All-time stupid move with no real chance at winning in your own fans eyes unless you go out and win a title with AD as the star (does anyone really think they do it?).

Jazz - B, Nice, grab a couple seconds Danny.

Luka - A, got to move to the biggest NBA market and managed to at least make it look like he wasn't involved in the move (doesn't seem to have been). Free money and might do more for him in becoming the face of the league than going to the Finals last season.

Davis - D, Name's getting dragged currently, but the fit is alright if he comes out playing like the #1 guy he can be. Unfortunately I expect he'll always be the guy they traded Luka for in Dallas.

LeBron - B, Opportunity here. Let's be honest, the Lakers as they were weren't doing anything going forward. Here he can either discretely ask out and get in a few last PO runs elsewhere or pass the torch to Luka in LA.

Luka was better positioned to compete for a championship in Dallas than LA

He also lost out on $116 million in guaranteed money.

[itsxtray]

Why are people talking about the Mavs moving to Vegas when it's clear that an expansion team will be added there instead? We all know this is happening, Silver has pretty much said as much.