Bulls sign Lonzo Ball to 2 year, $20 million extension

[KissedByaRose1]

Now trade Vooch today or else i'm going to go postal.

It’s looking like after the last few days there may no longer be a market for that. Might have to wait for this summer.

We can't do that. It's going to cost us 3-4 more wins in a draft with real superstar talent potentially. Effing malpractice resigning him in the first place and the fact that the lowest we can get now this season is 6th worst is such an organizational failure from top to bottom. Take two expiring bad salaries and a second rounder for all i care but he's gota go today

[jnrjr79]

Who’s the comparable player that’s returned a 1st rounder in recent years? I don’t think there is one.

I looked back to 2023 and beyond and excluding star players this is what I found:

- Hornets got Grant Williams, Seth Curry, and a 2027 1st for P.J. Washington and two 2nds

- Wizards got Richaun Holmes and a 2024 1st for Daniel Gafford

- Hornets got Kyle Lowry and a 2027 1st lottery protected for Terry Rozier

- Blazers got Malcolm Brogdon, Bob Williams, a 2024 1st, and an unprotected 2029 1st for Jrue Holiday

- Wizards got Malcolm Brogon, Carlton Carrington, two 2nds, and a 2029 1st for Deni Avdija

I definitely think the best-case scenario Lonzo could be had for something like a non-lottery first and fillers and whatnot, maybe we'd also have to send a 2nd or something. If he's healthy and averaging like 10-12 PPG with his great defense and around a 40% 3-point shot he's going to look very appealing to contenders.

What separates Lonzo from these comps (aside from the obv non-comp in Jrue Holiday) is that it’s almost impossible to project him as a full time starter. He probably won’t average 30 mpg or play in back to backs and he’s never had a 65 game season. He has awesome per minute impact, but there’s a hard ceiling on his total impact because of injury management. Which makes him a high-level utility player. It’s hard to see a team forking over a first for that. And chasing the outside chance he returns late 1st value doesn’t justify hurting our draft odds.

Like I said early thread, I’m a lot more interested in this if Coby and Vuc go tomorrow. But signing Lonzo as a minor asset play - or a ‘mentor’ - is an indulgence the Bulls can’t afford if he and other win-now players are driving this team to 35 wins.

Two things here:

As far as I know, neither Lonzo or the Bulls have said whether the intent is to keep his current minutes restrictions or prohibition on back-to-backs on a permanent basis. It could easily be a thing where that was the protocol for this season, but if his body holds up, they talk to docs and evaluate whether he can play a larger role.

The other thing is that with that cheap salary and the team option, he becomes a more valuable trade chip than he was before extending (and, sneakily, he can still be traded today if they want). From an asset management perspective, it makes sense to do the deal, even if you don't think he makes sense on a rebuilding squad.

[jnrjr79]

I just got done reading this mind boggling thread. I thought it was possible there was not a Bulls fan on earth who hates and has less faith in AK than me. Evidently not. Some of you are perhaps not capable of crediting him for anything anymore.

I think this is precisely it. There is a significant minority of posters who basically think "AK is a total idiot, therefore any move he makes is dumb." And I get how one would reach that place, but I think some people are no longer really looking at any of his moves on the merits, given the volume of dumb stuff he's done to date.

[pipfan]

I just got done reading this mind boggling thread. I thought it was possible there was not a Bulls fan on earth who hates and has less faith in AK than me. Evidently not. Some of you are perhaps not capable of crediting him for anything anymore.

I think this is precisely it. There is a significant minority of posters who basically think "AK is a total idiot, therefore any move he makes is dumb." And I get how one would reach that place, but I think some people are no longer really looking at any of his moves on the merits, given the volume of dumb stuff he's done to date.

I agree-AKME have been bad, but this is clearly a good move. VERY little downside, and plenty of upside. We need vets to mentor the kids, and Ball seems super solid, plus his play is improving

[DuckIII]

Now trade Vooch today or else i'm going to go postal.

It’s looking like after the last few days there may no longer be a market for that. Might have to wait for this summer.

We can't do that. It's going to cost us 3-4 more wins in a draft with real superstar talent potentially. Effing malpractice resigning him in the first place and the fact that the lowest we can get now this season is 6th worst is such an organizational failure from top to bottom. Take two expiring bad salaries and a second rounder for all i care but he's gota go today

Agree. If a team will give that. I’m not sure there are any teams left.

[sco]

I just got done reading this mind boggling thread. I thought it was possible there was not a Bulls fan on earth who hates and has less faith in AK than me. Evidently not. Some of you are perhaps not capable of crediting him for anything anymore.

1. What does $10 million matter to the Bulls for one year? Other than saying Lonzo has been injured, which is a huge so what for a deal like this, please explain how this contract damages the Bulls. If he plays literally zero games next year, what is the damage?

2. He looks perfectly healthy. If he actually does play healthy and well his contract becomes an incredibly valuable trade asset. People are arguing that Lonzo Ball, playing healthy and well, on a 2 year deal worth $10 million guaranteed, won’t be worth a first round pick to a playoff team? For a guy who credibly plays 3 positions as a two way player? Thats just not objectively rational.

3. Currently he has no trade value. In a very unlike-AK move we actually managed an asset in a way to increase its value with virtually no downside.

4. This gives us leverage in dealing with Giddey and Coby. Any argument by Giddey’s agent that we “need” him is now completely dead between Ayo and Ball. And overpaying Giddey is the biggest risk we face this summer.

5. Can you imagine a better mentor than an unselfish three position two way player with a top 10 IQ and insane work ethic?

One of the best deals I’ve seen the Bulls make in the last 20 years.

Thanks for doing my thinking for me Duck!

I do wonder if there was some genuine goodwill built around the FO's support of Ball through his return process and Ball giving us a "good deal" as a measure of payback. Normally guys are purely financially driven, but his situation was so unusual, it's possible.

Regardless, I'm happy to bash AK, but like the Coby and Ayo deals and the Matas drafting, I'm giving him kudos where kudos are due.

[DuckIII]

I do wonder if there was some genuine goodwill built around the FO's support of Ball through his return process and Ball giving us a "good deal" as a measure of payback. Normally guys are purely financially driven, but his situation was so unusual, it's possible.

There’s really no other explanation for this sweetheart deal.

[jnrjr79]

I do wonder if there was some genuine goodwill built around the FO's support of Ball through his return process and Ball giving us a "good deal" as a measure of payback. Normally guys are purely financially driven, but his situation was so unusual, it's possible.

There’s really no other explanation for this sweetheart deal.

One wonders whether simply not requesting a medical retirement evaluation for Ball engendered a lot of goodwill.

[Indomitable]

I just got done reading this mind boggling thread. I thought it was possible there was not a Bulls fan on earth who hates and has less faith in AK than me. Evidently not. Some of you are perhaps not capable of crediting him for anything anymore.

I think this is precisely it. There is a significant minority of posters who basically think "AK is a total idiot, therefore any move he makes is dumb." And I get how one would reach that place, but I think some people are no longer really looking at any of his moves on the merits, given the volume of dumb stuff he's done to date.

He has earned his reputation. Akme has been completely underwhelming as a President.

[CROBulls]

I just got done reading this mind boggling thread. I thought it was possible there was not a Bulls fan on earth who hates and has less faith in AK than me. Evidently not. Some of you are perhaps not capable of crediting him for anything anymore.

I think this is precisely it. There is a significant minority of posters who basically think "AK is a total idiot, therefore any move he makes is dumb." And I get how one would reach that place, but I think some people are no longer really looking at any of his moves on the merits, given the volume of dumb stuff he's done to date.

It's documented fact by moves he made that he is total idiot and therefore any move he makes is dumb. If you dont believe in your following Bulls fans, you can go make a pool on general board to confirm his reputation around league.

I wish we had not idiotic dumb GM, but we do not. Then I would know that at the end of tunnel there is a light, and not a train waiting for me.

[Indomitable]

I just got done reading this mind boggling thread. I thought it was possible there was not a Bulls fan on earth who hates and has less faith in AK than me. Evidently not. Some of you are perhaps not capable of crediting him for anything anymore.

I think this is precisely it. There is a significant minority of posters who basically think "AK is a total idiot, therefore any move he makes is dumb." And I get how one would reach that place, but I think some people are no longer really looking at any of his moves on the merits, given the volume of dumb stuff he's done to date.

It's documented fact by moves he made that he is total idiot and therefore any move he makes is dumb. If you dont believe in your following Bulls fans, you can go make a pool on general board to confirm his reputation around league.

I wish we had not idiotic dumb GM, but we do. Then I would know that at the end of tunnel is a light a not a train waiting for me.

Akme is that poker play with a thousand tells.

[jnrjr79]

I just got done reading this mind boggling thread. I thought it was possible there was not a Bulls fan on earth who hates and has less faith in AK than me. Evidently not. Some of you are perhaps not capable of crediting him for anything anymore.

I think this is precisely it. There is a significant minority of posters who basically think "AK is a total idiot, therefore any move he makes is dumb." And I get how one would reach that place, but I think some people are no longer really looking at any of his moves on the merits, given the volume of dumb stuff he's done to date.

It's documented fact by moves he made that he is total idiot and therefore any move he makes is dumb. If you dont believe in your following Bulls fans, you can go make a pool on general board to confirm his reputation around league.

I wish we had not idiotic dumb GM, but we do not. Then I would know that at the end of tunnel there is a light, and not a train waiting for me.

This comment both misses and proves the point.

I think AK has been terrible and should be fired. That does not mean, though, that every single move AK makes is inherently bad because AK made it. People let their deserved hatred of AK blind them to the point that they can't rationally think about transactions on an individual basis.

[CROBulls]

This comment misses the point entirely.

I think AK has been terrible and should be fired. That does not mean, though, that every single move AK makes is inherently bad because AK made it. People let their deserved hatred of AK blind them to the point that they can't rationally think about transactions on an individual basis.

Ok what moves you want to discuss which do not make AK inherently bad? Lonzo Ball move? Or trading Lavine? Or maybe move before that were you signed Patrick Williams at 20M per year for 5 years with no team option?

Decision to trade Lavine is inherently good, yes, I agree. Trading him for garbage is not. Bulls were still bad enough to keep a pick if this franchise decided to rest on certain games few players. They did not which makes again in retrospect our GM again dumb and idiotic.

Decision to re-sign Lonzo is inherently good, yes, I agree. Good vet, smart guy. Re-signing him without void a contract clause in case of injury on that knee is dumb and idiotic.

Yes signing Patrick Williams in inherently good, yes, I agree. Re-signing him at 20M per year and him being bench player who cannot progress to be more than that is dumb and idiotic move. It's waste of capspace. So what move you want again discusss?

[MissileMike]

Decision to re-sign Lonzo is inherently good, yes, I agree. Good vet, smart guy. Re-signing him without void a contract clause in case of injury on that knee is dumb and idiotic.

Don't they have a team option for year 2?

[MikeDC]

Is it good to get married? Yup.
Is it good to go to a girl planning to break up with her and walk out of the breakup talk being engaged to her? Nope.

Beyond that, there's a huge amount of internal double-think going on here.
1. If Lonzo had no market, getting him for any amount isn't some kind of steal. Reportedly multiple teams were interested in him.
2. The thinking that Lonzo's contract is too small to affect anything is the same kind of thinking that results in the Bulls passing up getting the actual asset back in the DeMar S&T because they don't have enough money left because they've committed it to Jevon Carter, Dalen Terry, Jalen Smith, Torrey Craig, etc. There's just no upside to making the sort of commitments, and it pretty much always comes around to bite them in the ass because they're a million or five too close to the tax threshold to do something important. Bad money adds up quick.

[chicago paxsons]

Decision to re-sign Lonzo is inherently good, yes, I agree. Good vet, smart guy. Re-signing him without void a contract clause in case of injury on that knee is dumb and idiotic.

Don't they have a team option for year 2?

Yes.

[jnrjr79]

This comment misses the point entirely.

I think AK has been terrible and should be fired. That does not mean, though, that every single move AK makes is inherently bad because AK made it. People let their deserved hatred of AK blind them to the point that they can't rationally think about transactions on an individual basis.

Ok what moves you want to discuss which do not make AK inherently bad?

AK *is* inherently bad. The point is any particular move is not inherently bad just because AK made it.

I'm saying three things:

AK is, in fact, bad.

That does not mean, though, that every move AK makes is bad, just because AK made it.

There is a certain subset of posters who appear to be critical of every move AK makes just because he made it, even when the move was, in isolation, pretty obviously good.

Lonzo Ball move? Or trading Lavine? Or maybe move before that were you signed Patrick Williams at 20M per year for 5 years with no team option?

Lonzo Ball extension: obviously good and smart asset management.

Lavine: fairly good - continues in a rebuilding direction and managed to get positive asset value in return, when earlier it appeared you'd actually have to attach picks to Zach to get another team to take his deal.

Patrick Williams: very bad!

Decision to trade Lavine is inherently good, yes, I agree. Trading him for garbage is not. Bulls were still bad enough to keep a pick if this franchise decided to rest on certain games few players. They did not which makes again in retrospect our GM again dumb and idiotic.

This is an inaccurate description of the LaVine trade, which eliminated 3 years of protections, not just one. There is a substantial likelihood the trade saved the Bulls a first round pick, and a certainty it saved them two 2nds even if they had somehow managed to go bottom-10, bottom-8, and bottom-8 in consecutive years.

Decision to re-sign Lonzo is inherently good, yes, I agree. Good vet, smart guy. Re-signing him without void a contract clause in case of injury on that knee is dumb and idiotic.

I don't think we actually know whether there are any injury protections in the contract, but I suspect there are not, because it's only a one-year deal. It's absurd to say it's "dumb and idiotic" because the Bulls are only committed to him in a single season for a tiny amount of money. It is not a risk. The Bulls got a sweetheart deal.

Yes signing Patrick Williams in inherently good, yes, I agree. Re-signing him at 20M per year and him being bench player who cannot progress to be more than that is dumb and idiotic move. It's waste of capspace. So what move you want again discusss?

I think the Patrick Williams deal was an overpay and sucked.

See, this is how it works. Some of his moves have been awful and some have been good. We can actually analyze them independently - or at least we should, but some people seem incapable of doing that. And the fact that AK is a bad GM causes people to inaccurately believe the good moves were bad ones. AK could have magically become the Lakers' GM and made the trade for Doncic, and there would be people on this board saying it's a bad move because they can't set aside their understandable rage toward AK for his prior mistakes.

[The Force.]

I'm curious about the actual trade offers the Bulls received for Ball. Was it a second-round pick? A late first-rounder?

While many speculate he could be used as a future trade asset, AKME's track record doesn't inspire confidence. Yes, they've shown skill in acquiring undervalued players, but they consistently sell assets at their LOWEST value. Looking at their past team-building decisions, retaining Ball seems questionable at best.

Moreover—assuming he's healthy—keeping Ball on the roster is counterproductive to the tank.

[sco]

I'm curious about the actual trade offers the Bulls received for Ball. Was it a second-round pick? A late first-rounder?

While many speculate he could be used as a future trade asset, AKME's track record doesn't inspire confidence. Yes, they've shown skill in acquiring undervalued players, but they consistently sell assets at their LOWEST value. Looking at their past team-building decisions, retaining Ball seems questionable at best.

Moreover—assuming he's healthy—keeping Ball on the roster is counterproductive to the tank.

No way it was a first for him, given that he will be a UFA (and the injury risk thing).

Yes it is counterproductive to the tank, but I keep saying this. Most here may think a tank is our best move, AK has never made any statement that he wants to. This also explains why he did the deal to keep our pick (which we could have kept if we tried at all to tank).

[kulaz3000]

I'm curious about the actual trade offers the Bulls received for Ball. Was it a second-round pick? A late first-rounder?

While many speculate he could be used as a future trade asset, AKME's track record doesn't inspire confidence. Yes, they've shown skill in acquiring undervalued players, but they consistently sell assets at their LOWEST value. Looking at their past team-building decisions, retaining Ball seems questionable at best.

Moreover—assuming he's healthy—keeping Ball on the roster is counterproductive to the tank.

According to KC, there was genuine interest for Ball, however, due to his 20 million contract, there would have been picks in return, but attached would be a long term contract involved to match salaries obviously.