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Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1661 » by wolves_89 » Fri Feb 7, 2025 6:46 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:
winforlose wrote:
TimberKat wrote:So our best bet is to get JMcL off waivers.


Much as a PG would help, we need a C more. If Rudy goes down Naz or Randle is our starting 5 and the other is the backup. Theis, Bamba, or one of the other waived bigs.


Please not Mo Bamba.

Dude has no motor, no BBIQ and possibly the worst conditioning in the NBA.

He has physical tools and, by all accounts, is a very intelligent person. But it sure doesn't look like he enjoys basketball. I think he's a guy who plays because he was expected to and has just enough ability to parlay that into 39 MILLION DOLLARS "playing" for 5 teams over 6 years.


I think Bamba would be a good addition. In terms of physical profile and play style, he is about as close to a Rudy replacement as we are likely to find. Plus, I think there are potential situational benefits in that his skill set is a great fit for the Gobert role and he would be able to watch and learn from Rudy every day.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1662 » by Norseman79 » Fri Feb 7, 2025 6:57 pm

I think I would take Moses Brown over Bamba. Though Bamba has more potential
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1663 » by BlacJacMac » Fri Feb 7, 2025 7:18 pm

wolves_89 wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Much as a PG would help, we need a C more. If Rudy goes down Naz or Randle is our starting 5 and the other is the backup. Theis, Bamba, or one of the other waived bigs.


Please not Mo Bamba.

Dude has no motor, no BBIQ and possibly the worst conditioning in the NBA.

He has physical tools and, by all accounts, is a very intelligent person. But it sure doesn't look like he enjoys basketball. I think he's a guy who plays because he was expected to and has just enough ability to parlay that into 39 MILLION DOLLARS "playing" for 5 teams over 6 years.


I think Bamba would be a good addition. In terms of physical profile and play style, he is about as close to a Rudy replacement as we are likely to find. Plus, I think there are potential situational benefits in that his skill set is a great fit for the Gobert role and he would be able to watch and learn from Rudy every day.


All he wants to do is shoot 3s. He's the anti-Rudy.

Dude is terrible.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1664 » by wolves_89 » Fri Feb 7, 2025 7:57 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
Please not Mo Bamba.

Dude has no motor, no BBIQ and possibly the worst conditioning in the NBA.

He has physical tools and, by all accounts, is a very intelligent person. But it sure doesn't look like he enjoys basketball. I think he's a guy who plays because he was expected to and has just enough ability to parlay that into 39 MILLION DOLLARS "playing" for 5 teams over 6 years.


I think Bamba would be a good addition. In terms of physical profile and play style, he is about as close to a Rudy replacement as we are likely to find. Plus, I think there are potential situational benefits in that his skill set is a great fit for the Gobert role and he would be able to watch and learn from Rudy every day.


All he wants to do is shoot 3s. He's the anti-Rudy.

Dude is terrible.


Bamba's stats are surprisingly similar to Gobert. Per 36 numbers and advanced stats match up fairly closely. The biggest statistical differences between Bamba and Rudy is Mo's 2pt% is historically about 10% lower (though it's only about 3% lower this season), the ORB% is around 3% less, and the DRB% is historically 4% less (though Bamba's DRB% has been higher than Gobert this season). I highly doubt we are going to find a better fitting backup center on the buyout market.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1665 » by Klomp » Fri Feb 7, 2025 8:36 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1666 » by Klomp » Fri Feb 7, 2025 8:38 pm

Tim is always going to be aggressive, remember. Keep in mind the rumor that floated around early last year about how close he was back in the day to trading away Jamal Murray.

He is a big game hunter.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1667 » by moss_is_1 » Fri Feb 7, 2025 8:43 pm

wolves_89 wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:
I think Bamba would be a good addition. In terms of physical profile and play style, he is about as close to a Rudy replacement as we are likely to find. Plus, I think there are potential situational benefits in that his skill set is a great fit for the Gobert role and he would be able to watch and learn from Rudy every day.


All he wants to do is shoot 3s. He's the anti-Rudy.

Dude is terrible.


Bamba's stats are surprisingly similar to Gobert. Per 36 numbers and advanced stats match up fairly closely. The biggest statistical differences between Bamba and Rudy is Mo's 2pt% is historically about 10% lower (though it's only about 3% lower this season), the ORB% is around 3% less, and the DRB% is historically 4% less (though Bamba's DRB% has been higher than Gobert this season). I highly doubt we are going to find a better fitting backup center on the buyout market.

Bamba is terrible. I would bet money that he'd never see the floor under Finch because he's worthless on defense.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1668 » by Klomp » Fri Feb 7, 2025 8:48 pm

Bamba is a slightly better Bol Bol
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1669 » by BlacJacMac » Fri Feb 7, 2025 9:13 pm

wolves_89 wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:
I think Bamba would be a good addition. In terms of physical profile and play style, he is about as close to a Rudy replacement as we are likely to find. Plus, I think there are potential situational benefits in that his skill set is a great fit for the Gobert role and he would be able to watch and learn from Rudy every day.


All he wants to do is shoot 3s. He's the anti-Rudy.

Dude is terrible.


Bamba's stats are surprisingly similar to Gobert. Per 36 numbers and advanced stats match up fairly closely. The biggest statistical differences between Bamba and Rudy is Mo's 2pt% is historically about 10% lower (though it's only about 3% lower this season), the ORB% is around 3% less, and the DRB% is historically 4% less (though Bamba's DRB% has been higher than Gobert this season). I highly doubt we are going to find a better fitting backup center on the buyout market.


I guess he's similar to Rudy if you completely ignore defense, motor and IQ.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1670 » by Mattya » Fri Feb 7, 2025 9:15 pm

It looks we could get under the second apron by renouncing NAW, and declining Garza and Minott’s options. Then it is a matter of getting just enough to match Durant’s salary without going over because no way are they getting under the second apron.

McDaniels, Randle, the Detroit pick and TSJ for Durant and Martin.

Or

McDaniels, Randle, Dillingham for Durant and Martin.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1671 » by winforlose » Fri Feb 7, 2025 9:18 pm

Mattya wrote:It looks we could get under the second apron by renouncing NAW, and declining Garza and Minott’s options. Then it is a matter of getting just enough to match Durant’s salary without going over because no way are they getting under the second apron.

McDaniels, Randle, the Detroit pick and TSJ for Durant and Martin.

Or

McDaniels, Randle, Dillingham for Durant and Martin.


Gutting the team to try and get a good year or two of Durant is a fools errand. We are better off just staying the course and letting Jaden develop. Durant is a free agent the year after. If he wants to come here for an MLE and try to win a chip on the back of Ant then so be it. But let him make that move, not us.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1672 » by Mattya » Fri Feb 7, 2025 9:29 pm

winforlose wrote:
Mattya wrote:It looks we could get under the second apron by renouncing NAW, and declining Garza and Minott’s options. Then it is a matter of getting just enough to match Durant’s salary without going over because no way are they getting under the second apron.

McDaniels, Randle, the Detroit pick and TSJ for Durant and Martin.

Or

McDaniels, Randle, Dillingham for Durant and Martin.


Gutting the team to try and get a good year or two of Durant is a fools errand. We are better off just staying the course and letting Jaden develop. Durant is a free agent the year after. If he wants to come here for an MLE and try to win a chip on the back of Ant then so be it. But let him make that move, not us.


I don’t consider that gutting the team.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1673 » by winforlose » Fri Feb 7, 2025 9:51 pm

Mattya wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Mattya wrote:It looks we could get under the second apron by renouncing NAW, and declining Garza and Minott’s options. Then it is a matter of getting just enough to match Durant’s salary without going over because no way are they getting under the second apron.

McDaniels, Randle, the Detroit pick and TSJ for Durant and Martin.

Or

McDaniels, Randle, Dillingham for Durant and Martin.


Gutting the team to try and get a good year or two of Durant is a fools errand. We are better off just staying the course and letting Jaden develop. Durant is a free agent the year after. If he wants to come here for an MLE and try to win a chip on the back of Ant then so be it. But let him make that move, not us.


I don’t consider that gutting the team.


Losing Randle, Jaden, NAW, and Dillingham or Randle, Jaden, NAW, TSJ, and the first is pretty significant. I have Randle as valuable trade salary and consolidating this much talent into a 37 year old KD on an expiring salary is very short term thinking.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1674 » by ILC » Fri Feb 7, 2025 10:34 pm

ILC wrote:
Baseline81 wrote:
shrink wrote:So true. We were $16 mil over the 2nd apron, so a deal acquiring Durant $51 mil deal would mean we’d need to send out over $67 mil. We won’t trade Ant, Gobert can’t be traded after his extension, so it’s nearly impossible for us.

Oh BTW, PHX is under 2nd apron restrictions, and we’d need to find a third team that can absorb lots of salary. And neither MIN nor PHX has the many assets to grease a deal, so … “Riiiiight”

Hmm .. I wonder if Ant asked Connelly to make an offer to his idol, not realizing it’s virtually impossible. One cool thing though was seeing Durant turn down mighty franchises like the Warriors, and thinking he might like a trade to MIN. We have a new image.

Such a move smells of a team knowing it isn't doing anything but wants to tell its fans, "We tried."

I think the interest was genuine and I think it was meant to send a message to KD:"we want you and if we can't get you now we will be back this summer". All of these recruitment pitches start early, months of courting in advance. Will probably see Ant in a tight hug with KD at the end of game next time we play them whispering in his ear.

If Randle opts in then he, Mike and Rob get you there financially.
If Randle opts out you can probably get him to do a S&T. Question is can you keep Jaden. Can you get KD to demand a trade and put MIN on his "list" and force PHX to accept a lesser package.

Jon K confirms this in an appearance on All NBA Podcast with Adam Mares today. Says they really tried, realized they'd have to move 6 guys and it wasn't worth depleting the team that way but 1000% believes it lays groundwork for the summer where a deal will be much easier to pull off.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1675 » by cmoss84 » Fri Feb 7, 2025 10:52 pm

Mattya wrote:It looks we could get under the second apron by renouncing NAW, and declining Garza and Minott’s options. Then it is a matter of getting just enough to match Durant’s salary without going over because no way are they getting under the second apron.

McDaniels, Randle, the Detroit pick and TSJ for Durant and Martin.

Or

McDaniels, Randle, Dillingham for Durant and Martin.


What if Randle declines his option? Would you deal Rudy+ for KD? Something like Rudy/DD/picks
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1676 » by Mattya » Fri Feb 7, 2025 11:52 pm

cmoss84 wrote:
Mattya wrote:It looks we could get under the second apron by renouncing NAW, and declining Garza and Minott’s options. Then it is a matter of getting just enough to match Durant’s salary without going over because no way are they getting under the second apron.

McDaniels, Randle, the Detroit pick and TSJ for Durant and Martin.

Or

McDaniels, Randle, Dillingham for Durant and Martin.


What if Randle declines his option? Would you deal Rudy+ for KD? Something like Rudy/DD/picks


If we clear that much space then there are probably more player combos we could do to make a trade work out, and would be able to keep NAW's cap hold.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1677 » by winforlose » Sat Feb 8, 2025 12:22 am

If Beal/Booker/Durant and high end role players like Allen and Tyus cannot get it done, why would adding Durant and losing guys like Jaden and NAW change the equation? Also we would be giving up an all NBA defense pre prime Jaden for at best 3 years of huge money KD. Also how do you pay Naz? If you have 54+ in KD, 45+ in Ant, 37+ in Rudy, and 10+ in Mike are you gonna pay Naz 25+? Are you gonna be able to round out the roster. Is that enough for a title? I don’t trust KD’s health or loyalty enough to give him 54 million much less to give up young core pieces to do it. Worse he is an EXPIRING contract. He could leave or cost so much in year 2 that we are in the 2nd apron for 3 straight years and that has major consequences. This is the kind of bad idea that could make our already tough situation even worse.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1678 » by shrink » Sat Feb 8, 2025 12:26 am

One last piece.

The general life history of an NBA team is to identify young potential superstars, and try to surround them with talent. As the players become more successful, over time they become more expensive, and you need to find cheap, young talent to fill in and replace the vets, to keep the books balance (especially after the last CBA).

We need to see a lot more, but after the HOU game it looks like we have some youth that could develop into cheap rotation players. If we trust them, does this mean we eventually move on for Conley, from NAW, even from DDV?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1679 » by winforlose » Sat Feb 8, 2025 12:37 am

shrink wrote:One last piece.

The general life history of an NBA team is to identify young potential superstars, and try to surround them with talent. As the players become more successful, over time they become more expensive, and you need to find cheap, young talent to fill in and replace the vets, to keep the books balance (especially after the last CBA).

We need to see a lot more, but after the HOU game it looks like we have some youth that could develop into cheap rotation players. If we trust them, does this mean we eventually move on for Conley, from NAW, even from DDV?


Before I answer that I also want to point out that guys you would not expect to turn into stars (not to be confused with super stars,) can develop that way. Jaden has shown potential to be a 20/10 SF. Naz has shown the potential to be a 20/10 PF, and that might not be superstar level, but on reasonable contracts that it is EXTREMELY important in pursuit of a championship. To have those 3 (Ant, Jaden, and Naz,) all younger than 26, don’t underestimate the value of that.

To answer your question, how good is NAW if instead of 4 you were paying 14 for his numbers? How good is DDV if instead of 12 you were paying 22 for his numbers? Conley has hit the point of diminished returns. Next year he will be overpaid, and I doubt he is more than a 3rd string minimum the year after. NAW’s value will be determined by his performance in the playoffs. If he disappears again that number will plummet. If he is unplayable all of his value gain from the first 3 months will disappear and his current contract will be what he can hope for going forward. If he shows up and plays well, he might price himself out of our range. Same with DDV, if he plays well enough next year then we might decide we cannot afford him the following year. That is why we draft guys like Shannon and Clark. But, that doesn’t mean you want to lose guys like NAW and DDV for nothing. Ideally you would trade them for something.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1680 » by Klomp » Sat Feb 8, 2025 1:00 am

Baseline81 wrote:Such a move smells of a team knowing it isn't doing anything but wants to tell its fans, "We tried."

Jon Krawczynski says this wasn't the case.
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