2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[The Master]

I don't disagree. That's why i am happy for Shai to win it.

Out of curiousity, where are you getting your on/off numbers? Cleaning the Glass has Shai at 13.6 on/off and Jokic at 24.5, which is a much bigger difference than the numbers you're citing.

I use Basketball Reference/PBPstats/NBA Wowy on Add More Funds mostly, don't know what are these stats from Cleaning the Glass.

Chet came back and had a higher +- than SGA in limited mins

will Chet coming back be the chink in the armour of SGA's MVP campaign?

Don't think so, Shai was still +15 in +12 win in 29 minutes, that's still around +30 on/off for this single game. If Holmgren is playable from the start, and it seems so, it's a guarantee that Thunder don't go down that much with their historic SRS and awesome record in the last part of the season, and for now it looks like a tiebreaker in the whole race. Hard to imagine not winning an MVP with 68-14 type of record and all-time great production.

[Exp0sed]

I don't disagree. That's why i am happy for Shai to win it.

Out of curiousity, where are you getting your on/off numbers? Cleaning the Glass has Shai at 13.6 on/off and Jokic at 24.5, which is a much bigger difference than the numbers you're citing.

I use Basketball Reference/PBPstats/NBA Wowy on Add More Funds mostly, don't know what are these stats from Cleaning the Glass.

Chet came back and had a higher +- than SGA in limited mins

will Chet coming back be the chink in the armour of SGA's MVP campaign?

Don't think so, Shai was still +15 in +12 win in 29 minutes, that's still around +30 on/off for this single game. If Holmgren is playable from the start, and it seems so, it's a guarantee that Thunder don't go down that much with their historic SRS and awesome record in the last part of the season, and for now it looks like a tiebreaker in the whole race. Hard to imagine not winning an MVP with 68-14 type of record and all-time great production.

what I meant was, SGA has been seperating himself in terms of +- from his starting unit teammates, especially since Chet went down

last night was different, wherein SGA was +15 in 29 mins played while Chet (another starter) was + 22 in 22 mins played

[Black star]

I don't disagree. That's why i am happy for Shai to win it.

Out of curiousity, where are you getting your on/off numbers? Cleaning the Glass has Shai at 13.6 on/off and Jokic at 24.5, which is a much bigger difference than the numbers you're citing.

I use Basketball Reference/PBPstats/NBA Wowy on Add More Funds mostly, don't know what are these stats from Cleaning the Glass.

Chet came back and had a higher +- than SGA in limited mins

will Chet coming back be the chink in the armour of SGA's MVP campaign?

Don't think so, Shai was still +15 in +12 win in 29 minutes, that's still around +30 on/off for this single game. If Holmgren is playable from the start, and it seems so, it's a guarantee that Thunder don't go down that much with their historic SRS and awesome record in the last part of the season, and for now it looks like a tiebreaker in the whole race. Hard to imagine not winning an MVP with 68-14 type of record and all-time great production.

what I meant was, SGA has been seperating himself in terms of +- from his starting unit teammates, especially since Chet went down

last night was different, wherein SGA was +15 in 29 mins played while Chet (another starter) was + 22 in 22 mins played

Yeah that's true the voters might start wondering if the guy who played 11 games this season was secretly the true driver of OKC's success

[MarcusBrody]

I don't disagree. That's why i am happy for Shai to win it.

Out of curiousity, where are you getting your on/off numbers? Cleaning the Glass has Shai at 13.6 on/off and Jokic at 24.5, which is a much bigger difference than the numbers you're citing.

I use Basketball Reference/PBPstats/NBA Wowy on Add More Funds mostly, don't know what are these stats from Cleaning the Glass.
.

I looked into it and Cleaning the Glass removes "garbage time" from their stats while Basketball Reference does not. I assume that's the reason for the difference.

[AleksandarN]

17 7 7 first half. 7/8 shooting

[BigGargamel]

Denver's coming for that #2 seed. We're gonna have SGA vs. Jokic in the WCF.

[Jaqua92]

Denver is going to the finals if they're healthy again. Too much experience, they don't get rattled, will have by far the best player in the series.

Jokic with 26/12/9 on 11/12 shooting (full court heave)

Meanwhile SGA went back into the game to stat pad with 3 min left. Mvp

[AleksandarN]

Denver is going to the finals if they're healthy again. Too much experience, they don't get rattled, will have by far the best player in the series.

Jokic with 26/12/9 on 11/12 shooting (full court heave)

Meanwhile SGA went back into the game to stat pad with 3 min left. Mvp

Pad what stats?

[MaliBrah]

Denver is going to the finals if they're healthy again. Too much experience, they don't get rattled, will have by far the best player in the series.

Jokic with 26/12/9 on 11/12 shooting (full court heave)

Meanwhile SGA went back into the game to stat pad with 3 min left. Mvp

They don't get rattled? blew a 20 point lead in G7 last year

[scrabbarista]

I don't disagree. That's why i am happy for Shai to win it.

Out of curiousity, where are you getting your on/off numbers? Cleaning the Glass has Shai at 13.6 on/off and Jokic at 24.5, which is a much bigger difference than the numbers you're citing.

I use Basketball Reference/PBPstats/NBA Wowy on Add More Funds mostly, don't know what are these stats from Cleaning the Glass.

Chet came back and had a higher +- than SGA in limited mins

will Chet coming back be the chink in the armour of SGA's MVP campaign?

Don't think so, Shai was still +15 in +12 win in 29 minutes, that's still around +30 on/off for this single game. If Holmgren is playable from the start, and it seems so, it's a guarantee that Thunder don't go down that much with their historic SRS and awesome record in the last part of the season, and for now it looks like a tiebreaker in the whole race. Hard to imagine not winning an MVP with 68-14 type of record and all-time great production.

Hard to imagine not winning the MVP while being the #2 seed, averaging 30/13/10 on 57/46/81, breaking the all-time PER record, breaking the all-time BPM record, having the second highest WS/48 of all-time, leading the league in VORP, leading the league in Win Shares, being third in scoring, being third in rebounding, being second in assisting, being fourth in steals per game, being second in three point percentage, being tenth in field goal percentage, being seventh in true shooting percentage, having a +20 On-Off, and having three times as many triple doubles as the next closest player, too.

[Exp0sed]

Denver is going to the finals if they're healthy again. Too much experience, they don't get rattled, will have by far the best player in the series.

Jokic with 26/12/9 on 11/12 shooting (full court heave)

Meanwhile SGA went back into the game to stat pad with 3 min left. Mvp

Jokic is around 46% from 3, if you discount his heaves (14 heaves, I discounted his one make as well) he's at 49% which would probably still be good for 1st. that's kinda insane.

[The Master]

Hard to imagine not winning the MVP while being the #2 seed, averaging 30/13/10 on 57/46/81, breaking the all-time PER record, breaking the all-time BPM record, having the second highest WS/48 of all-time, leading the league in VORP, leading the league in Win Shares, being third in scoring, being third in rebounding, being second in assisting, being fourth in steals per game, being second in three point percentage, being tenth in field goal percentage, being seventh in true shooting percentage, having a +20 On-Off, and having three times as many triple doubles as the next closest player, too.

Jokic literally lost MVP two years ago under similar conditions, so it's not that hard to imagine this actually happening.

Not saying it was deserved (wasn't) nor Jokic doesn't deserve to win (he does) nor I was speaking on my personal preferences (it's a 50/50 for me, level wise). We'll find out though if I'm correct in my assessment (all-time great season on all-time great team --> MVP), especially considering potential voters fatigue factor (Jordan in '97?).

[scrabbarista]

Hard to imagine not winning the MVP while being the #2 seed, averaging 30/13/10 on 57/46/81, breaking the all-time PER record, breaking the all-time BPM record, having the second highest WS/48 of all-time, leading the league in VORP, leading the league in Win Shares, being third in scoring, being third in rebounding, being second in assisting, being fourth in steals per game, being second in three point percentage, being tenth in field goal percentage, being seventh in true shooting percentage, having a +20 On-Off, and having three times as many triple doubles as the next closest player, too.

Jokic literally lost MVP two years ago under similar conditions, so it's not that hard to imagine this actually happening.

Not saying it was deserved (wasn't) nor Jokic doesn't deserve to win (he does) nor I was speaking on my personal preferences (it's a 50/50 for me, level wise). We'll find out though if I'm correct in my assessment (all-time great season on all-time great team --> MVP), especially considering potential voters fatigue factor (Jordan in '97?).

We'll see. SGA is more deserving than Embiid was, easily - so, point taken - but I still think there's a clear separation between Jokic and SGA's cases.

[Mrakar]

Read on Twitter

The real MVP doesnt need 15+ FTs

[scrabbarista]

Read on Twitter

The real MVP doesnt need 15+ FTs

This level of 2-point touch, the kind that had him at .701 TS% in 2023 when he was robbed of the MVP, has actually been missing this season. If he gets closer to the 64% on 2's that he's been the last four seasons instead of the 60% he's been this year, while maintaining his already record-setting production elsewhere, then I might almost say anything's possible for Jokic and the team this season. Unfortunately, Westbrook will come back, and Malone will play him, and everything the team is building now will be thrown off kilter again.

PS That fourth shot is my favorite. So pretty!!!

[Snake3]

Hard to imagine not winning the MVP while being the #2 seed, averaging 30/13/10 on 57/46/81, breaking the all-time PER record, breaking the all-time BPM record, having the second highest WS/48 of all-time, leading the league in VORP, leading the league in Win Shares, being third in scoring, being third in rebounding, being second in assisting, being fourth in steals per game, being second in three point percentage, being tenth in field goal percentage, being seventh in true shooting percentage, having a +20 On-Off, and having three times as many triple doubles as the next closest player, too.

Jokic literally lost MVP two years ago under similar conditions, so it's not that hard to imagine this actually happening.

Not saying it was deserved (wasn't) nor Jokic doesn't deserve to win (he does) nor I was speaking on my personal preferences (it's a 50/50 for me, level wise). We'll find out though if I'm correct in my assessment (all-time great season on all-time great team --> MVP), especially considering potential voters fatigue factor (Jordan in '97?).

The reasons were different in the 23 race. This time around, it's difficult to shake.

I do think SGA deserves it. But it's really hard not to acknowledge what Jokic is doing consistently as well. This is an historic season by Jokic and SGA is having the best two way guard play since MJ. Reaching similar production and having an historic season in his own right. Not to mention the team is a destroying the majority of the teams rn and he is a huge part of that on offense. Some advance impact stats show how important SGA is.

But again, Jokic is killing it in other advance stats too and you can see it with the eye test. It's amazing that Denver is even at the 3rd seed and might get the 2nd. They started so rocky and how everyone predicted they wouldn't be good. Granted, they haven't beat a good team in a while. It's still amazing that they are in this position in the first place. They only lost three more compared to last year at this stage of the season. That's crazy with all the injuries and with Jokic missing more games than he did last year too.

It's going to be fun in the upcoming months and games. We're going to look back on this year and wonder why the other person didn't win.

[MoneyTalks41890]

53 win pace for Denver, 68 win pace for OKC. Still not all that close of a race imo on that reason alone given how close everything else is. Would need an implosion from the Thunder and SGA.

[kazyv]

53 win pace for Denver, 68 win pace for OKC. Still not all that close of a race imo on that reason alone given how close everything else is. Would need an implosion from the Thunder and SGA.

as is, SGA is deserving MVP, but the lofty pace they've set might cost SGA some votes, if the thunder do up getting only like 64 after projecting to be close to 70 for the whole season. though I guess if they just rest some people after clinching first and drop a couple games, it shouldn't matter that much. looking at the schedule, march is certainly no cake walk for OKC. it might end up being quite decisive, one way or the other

[Exp0sed]

53 win pace for Denver, 68 win pace for OKC. Still not all that close of a race imo on that reason alone given how close everything else is. Would need an implosion from the Thunder and SGA.

SGA is still ahead, he's played more games and his team record is much better and he has also played at a similar level (albeit a little lower imo), but not lower enough to justify giving it to Jokic

With that said, season isn't over yet. I don't think Okc is going to implode at all, Jokic potential path to another MVP is more about SGA coming back down to earth individually, like he has in the last two games. If he had say a month shooting inefficiently and not doing much else, Jokic can still overtake him as he's playing at an all time great level


Edit: i'm sure even Jokic's biggest haters can appreciate what he's been doing. Dude is srsly avging 30\12\10 on 67 TS% with almost 2 steals and just 3 To's per game. That's nuts...

SGA's 32.5\5\6 on 64.5 TS% is amazing but quite a far cry from Jokic

If the individual gap between them will grow more substantial, Jokic will be harder and harder to deny

[MoneyTalks41890]

53 win pace for Denver, 68 win pace for OKC. Still not all that close of a race imo on that reason alone given how close everything else is. Would need an implosion from the Thunder and SGA.

SGA is still ahead, he's played more games and his team record is much better and he has also played at a similar level (albeit a little lower imo), but not lower enough to justify giving it to Jokic

With that said, season isn't over yet. I don't think Okc is going to implode at all, Jokic potential path to another MVP is more about SGA coming back down to earth individually, like he has in the last two games. If he had say a month shooting inefficiently and not doing much else, Jokic can still overtake him as he's playing at an all time great level


Edit: i'm sure even Jokic's biggest haters can appreciate what he's been doing. Dude is srsly avging 30\12\10 on 67 TS% with almost 2 steals and just 3 To's per game. That's nuts...

SGA's 32.5\5\6 on 64.5 TS% is amazing but quite a far cry from Jokic

If the individual gap between them will grow more substantial, Jokic will be harder and harder to deny

The gap on defense is as big as the gap on offense imo this season. Maybe more.

EPM shows this pretty clearly.

There’s not much “individual gap” if any this season.

Also, it’s just weird to round 32.7 down to 32.5 but round 29.6 up to 30. If you believed in the case that strongly you wouldn’t have to shade the stats.

Three points per game on similar efficiency from a guard is a decent difference.

No one is saying Jokic isn’t incredible.