The 'Jokic has no help' narrative sure came and went

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Ah the old "just run the Pickle Role against Jokic" line. Opponents are scoring 0.78 Points on every pick and roll they run against Jokic this year which is pretty low. https://www.nba.com/stats/players/ball-handler?TypeGrouping=defensive&dir=D&sort=POSS

That’s just a blanket stat with zero context. Watch when teams actually target him in the pick & roll. GS did it in 2022, and Edward’s did it in the playoffs last year.

Edwards targeted Jokic? Edwards was overpowering KCP and being quicker than Gordon, he was not attacking Jokic.
Anyway, there's a reason if teams don't go after him pick and rolls that often?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Murray is jack **** on offense without him? Murray put up All NBA numbers on their only title run, and he just put up a damn double nickel. You can't score 55 solely from getting spot up 3s off of Jokic passes.

Nuggets off rating:
- Jokic, Murray on 129.9
- Jokic on, Murray off 124.9
- Jokic on, Murray off 114.4

Murray can get hot but, without Jokic, he never managed to generate a decent team offense.

[DimesandKnicks]

I never said RAPM was the holy grail. But a full career RAPM is going to have very little error and to argue it's wrong is pretty much laughable. This is a metric that before vega's had it, was consistently beating vegas. It works. It's proven. I'm not sure what else there is to even discuss there. Now you're still not understanding it and that's fine.

AD took a damn year off putting in effort to force his way out of NO. He wasn't a good defender coming in. And he's been hurt constantly. The metric isn't saying peak form and healthy AD isn't better than Jokic. But all that data is included. 3 year RAPM has AD near DPOY level with jokic far below him for example. Which makes sense...that sample doesn't include young AD or him forcing his way out of NO.

Not sure the issue on Caruso, again look at what he's done to OKC this year. He's a huge reason they went from a really good defense to maybe the best ever.

But again this isn't a tool to rank players. You should be look at scale yes. And then looking at the player for who they are. RAPM doesn't know you're a 3 and D guy vs a primary scorer who's a shot blocker. That's the job of the users of the stat.

Meanwhile....you again show you don't understand defense. All this hiding on a player crap. Jokic's role on defense is that of a safety. They aren't hiding him on the worst player. They are using the worst player to allow Jokic the ability to do what he does at an ELITE level and that's read the offense and make rotations.

Play safety and make rotations so he can lay out the red carpet for players on their way to an easy layup

Sure bud, I don’t understand defense. You’re the savant

I'm at best a C- guy at following defense. But the idea Jokic's with his deflections and steals...I mean we're talking about the same guy right? Jokic is 3rd in total steals in the NBA this season and tied for 3rd in deflections.

I mean, serious question. Do you think steals and deflections are meaningless? Again he's 3rd in both among ALL players in both. Not big men. But in total.

He has 274 combined steals/deflections so far...we aren't even at the allstar break.

Oh and he's 3rd in the league in defensive rebounds.

How is a guy who's 3rd in steals. 3rd in deflections. And 3rd in defensive rebounds a BELOW average defender?

And I don't have 2025 numbers but Jokic has been averaging like .7 kicked balls in some seasons, so likely has 20-30 of those where he resets the clock to what is it now, 16? I forget. That's defensive value too.

So do you think any of this has value? And if so...how bad is he elsewhere that these things aren't helping make him neutral? Like serious question...lets stop throwing around the simi insults while still not being crossing the line disrespectful. You don't like on off data. We both agree he's a bad rim protector but we also both agree he's at the rim contesting a lot. So...how do you evaluate all these steals, deflections, and rebounds? Do you see any value in a kicked ball on a lost play that prevents a score?

Oh and lets not forget all this in the context that he almost never sends people to the line to get free points.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35959911/the-problem-nikola-jokic-game-let-just-say-offense
Per a 2023 article in March, Jokic allowed the highest FG percentage among players who defended at least 300 shots at the rim (69 percent). This year he’s at 70 percent. That is the WORST in the league…the next few are Towns, Vucevic, and Sabonis…these are his cohorts

Per that article he was 64th out of 65, only better than Thomas Bryant at defending layups and dunks.

Out of 226 players who defended at least 200 drives in 2023 at the time of the article, we ranked 222nd in efficiency (there are only like 300 players in the NBA)

So to answer you question, he is literally THE WORST or among THE WORST in other areas which makes him a bad defender.

A center who is third in deflections and this in steals becomes a below average defender when he is literally — THE WORST — at the things that you need your center to do the most

And it’s very very very easy to not foul players when you are not even trying to be a deterrent at the rim. You don’t get credit for not fouling on defense when you aren’t playing defense.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

This is why people hate Jokic fans. KCP has been a really good role player for a long time, most of it without Jokic, but because he's having an off shooting year so far people will claim Jokic made him And Bruce Brown had his best statistical season WITHOUT Jokic, so...

Bruce Brown in 2023 played
- 1233 minutes with Jokic, .651 ts
- 1014 minutes without Jokic, .500 ts

You really, REALLY, fumbled this one

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Play safety and make rotations so he can lay out the red carpet for players on their way to an easy layup

Sure bud, I don’t understand defense. You’re the savant

I'm at best a C- guy at following defense. But the idea Jokic's with his deflections and steals...I mean we're talking about the same guy right? Jokic is 3rd in total steals in the NBA this season and tied for 3rd in deflections.

I mean, serious question. Do you think steals and deflections are meaningless? Again he's 3rd in both among ALL players in both. Not big men. But in total.

He has 274 combined steals/deflections so far...we aren't even at the allstar break.

Oh and he's 3rd in the league in defensive rebounds.

How is a guy who's 3rd in steals. 3rd in deflections. And 3rd in defensive rebounds a BELOW average defender?

And I don't have 2025 numbers but Jokic has been averaging like .7 kicked balls in some seasons, so likely has 20-30 of those where he resets the clock to what is it now, 16? I forget. That's defensive value too.

So do you think any of this has value? And if so...how bad is he elsewhere that these things aren't helping make him neutral? Like serious question...lets stop throwing around the simi insults while still not being crossing the line disrespectful. You don't like on off data. We both agree he's a bad rim protector but we also both agree he's at the rim contesting a lot. So...how do you evaluate all these steals, deflections, and rebounds? Do you see any value in a kicked ball on a lost play that prevents a score?

Oh and lets not forget all this in the context that he almost never sends people to the line to get free points.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35959911/the-problem-nikola-jokic-game-let-just-say-offense
Per a 2023 article in March, Jokic allowed the highest FG percentage among players who defended at least 300 shots at the rim (69 percent). This year he’s at 70 percent. That is the WORST in the league…the next few are Towns, Vucevic, and Sabonis…these are his cohorts

Per that article he was 64th out of 65, only better than Thomas Bryant at defending layups and dunks.

Out of 226 players who defended at least 200 drives in 2023 at the time of the article, we ranked 222nd in efficiency (there are only like 300 players in the NBA)

So to answer you question, he is literally THE WORST or among THE WORST in other areas which makes him a bad defender.

A center who is third in deflections and this in steals becomes a below average defender when he is literally — THE WORST — at the things that you need your center to do the most

And it’s very very very easy to not foul players when you are not even trying to be a deterrent at the rim. You don’t get credit for not fouling on defense when you aren’t playing defense.

That makes him a bad rim protector, not necessarily a bad defender. You have a very narrow view about how defense can be played.
And that number cha ges quite a bit in clutch situations, when he's willing to put his chest out.

[DimesandKnicks]

I'm at best a C- guy at following defense. But the idea Jokic's with his deflections and steals...I mean we're talking about the same guy right? Jokic is 3rd in total steals in the NBA this season and tied for 3rd in deflections.

I mean, serious question. Do you think steals and deflections are meaningless? Again he's 3rd in both among ALL players in both. Not big men. But in total.

He has 274 combined steals/deflections so far...we aren't even at the allstar break.

Oh and he's 3rd in the league in defensive rebounds.

How is a guy who's 3rd in steals. 3rd in deflections. And 3rd in defensive rebounds a BELOW average defender?

And I don't have 2025 numbers but Jokic has been averaging like .7 kicked balls in some seasons, so likely has 20-30 of those where he resets the clock to what is it now, 16? I forget. That's defensive value too.

So do you think any of this has value? And if so...how bad is he elsewhere that these things aren't helping make him neutral? Like serious question...lets stop throwing around the simi insults while still not being crossing the line disrespectful. You don't like on off data. We both agree he's a bad rim protector but we also both agree he's at the rim contesting a lot. So...how do you evaluate all these steals, deflections, and rebounds? Do you see any value in a kicked ball on a lost play that prevents a score?

Oh and lets not forget all this in the context that he almost never sends people to the line to get free points.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35959911/the-problem-nikola-jokic-game-let-just-say-offense
Per a 2023 article in March, Jokic allowed the highest FG percentage among players who defended at least 300 shots at the rim (69 percent). This year he’s at 70 percent. That is the WORST in the league…the next few are Towns, Vucevic, and Sabonis…these are his cohorts

Per that article he was 64th out of 65, only better than Thomas Bryant at defending layups and dunks.

Out of 226 players who defended at least 200 drives in 2023 at the time of the article, we ranked 222nd in efficiency (there are only like 300 players in the NBA)

So to answer you question, he is literally THE WORST or among THE WORST in other areas which makes him a bad defender.

A center who is third in deflections and this in steals becomes a below average defender when he is literally — THE WORST — at the things that you need your center to do the most

And it’s very very very easy to not foul players when you are not even trying to be a deterrent at the rim. You don’t get credit for not fouling on defense when you aren’t playing defense.

That makes him a bad rim protector, not necessarily a bad defender. You have a very narrow view about defense can be played.
And that number cha ges quite a bit in clutch situations, when he's willing to put his chest out.

But deflections and rebounds makes your good defender. You guys are hopeless

[cupcakesnake]

The main issue is there are only so many rim protectors who could play alongside Jokic and none of them are available. Obviously playing with guys like Murray and MPJ doesn't help, but even if they were good defenders, rim protection is still going to be an issue.

It's not that bad. You can get forwards who can help contest at the rim. All those 6'9 types which Masai seems to love, for example. Or a Kirilenko type.

Honestly, they lost in G7 to the Wolves 98-90. Defense wasn't their issue. They kept the Wolves almost 8 points below league average. Ant was awful. Conley was terrible. NAW was dreadful. The problem was that they only scored 90 points, and crapped themselves in the third. Braun, KCP and MPJ combined to shoot 2/11 from 3. Murray was 4/12, despite scoring well otherwise. They got 5 points from the bench. Not-Jokic was w/13 in the 3rd.

What they needed was more scoring help around Joker. Their D wasn't the largest problem, and wouldn't have been had they faced the Celtics, either. There are different profiles to a title contender/NBA Finalist, after all.

In general there's been a hyperfixation on Jokic's lack of rim protection that I think has lost the plot a bit.

Yes, Jokic is not a strong rim protector. He gives you next to no verticality outside his height, and he doesn't quite have the footspeed and length of someone like Marc Gasol (example of a rim protector without jumping vertical defense). It has been reinforced a lot over the past 20 years of basketball that rim protection is the spine of elite defense, and that rim protection is the most important value add a center can give you.

People focus too myopically on this weakness though, ignoring the forest (Denver has not struggled to defend well enough in the playoffs) for the trees. Jokic does a ton of things well on defense (crazy good hands, sneaky decent feet, little stunting tricks to bait people into pull ups, stouter than his reputation in man-to-man matchups, high motor, extremely proactive). The Nuggets are bad a rim protection. They aren't compensating for Jokic's weakness by adding rim protection somewhere else on the floor. MPJ is probably their best rim protector and I'm not sure he's average even as a secondary rim protector. The Nuggets have basically punted on rim defense and focused on forcing teams into crappy shot selection. They'll never produce elite defense this way, but they've proven over and over that they can play good enough defense to support their offense.

Going off what tsherk said, D hasn't been their problem. When the offense is good, they win.

[tsherkin]

Who do you think are the AK47 types in today's NBA? Maybe Amen Thompson, but even that's a bit of a stretch.

Do you have any actual names of current players you think would pair up well next to Jokic that offer rim protetion and would be available? I guess they already have Peyton Watson who may develop into that guy.

Not everyone has to be young. Thompson is an excellent defender. But even Pascal Siakam (not that I think he's a realistic acquisition) can fulfill that role, you know? Length, athleticism and a good head are fine, especially inside a reasonable rotational strategy and all that. THe point is, if rim protection becomes that much a concern, it can be addressed without a 5-slot shot blocker. I don't think it's actually a huge concern, though, as there are other ways to develop a defense of sufficient quality.

In general there's been a hyperfixation on Jokic's lack of rim protection that I think has lost the plot a bit.

Yes, Jokic is not a strong rim protector. He gives you next to no verticality outside his height, and he doesn't quite have the footspeed and length of someone like Marc Gasol (example of a rim protector without jumping vertical defense). It has been reinforced a lot over the past 20 years of basketball that rim protection is the spine of elite defense, and that rim protection is the most important value add a center can give you.

Rim protection is great, but there are other ways to get it done. Rotation, defensive rebounding, deflections/steals, taking charges. Playing the possession control game works in their favor with the caliber of their offense. And as you say, Denver hasn't generally had huge issues on D in the playoffs.

The Nuggets have basically punted on rim defense and focused on forcing teams into crappy shot selection. They'll never produce elite defense this way, but they've proven over and over that they can play good enough defense to support their offense.

Exactly.

Going off what tsherk said, D hasn't been their problem. When the offense is good, they win.

Bingo.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35959911/the-problem-nikola-jokic-game-let-just-say-offense
Per a 2023 article in March, Jokic allowed the highest FG percentage among players who defended at least 300 shots at the rim (69 percent). This year he’s at 70 percent. That is the WORST in the league…the next few are Towns, Vucevic, and Sabonis…these are his cohorts

Per that article he was 64th out of 65, only better than Thomas Bryant at defending layups and dunks.

Out of 226 players who defended at least 200 drives in 2023 at the time of the article, we ranked 222nd in efficiency (there are only like 300 players in the NBA)

So to answer you question, he is literally THE WORST or among THE WORST in other areas which makes him a bad defender.

A center who is third in deflections and this in steals becomes a below average defender when he is literally — THE WORST — at the things that you need your center to do the most

And it’s very very very easy to not foul players when you are not even trying to be a deterrent at the rim. You don’t get credit for not fouling on defense when you aren’t playing defense.

That makes him a bad rim protector, not necessarily a bad defender. You have a very narrow view about defense can be played.
And that number cha ges quite a bit in clutch situations, when he's willing to put his chest out.

But deflections and rebounds makes your good defender. You guys are hopeless

impacting positively team defense makes you a good defender, no matter how you achieve it

[cupcakesnake]

So to answer you question, he is literally THE WORST or among THE WORST in other areas which makes him a bad defender.

You can find some stats to support Jokic being really bad at specific things on defense, but in the broader context, he's more in the lower third of rim protectors rather than "THE WORST". Amongst centers that have played real rotation minutes this year, Jokic is the 11th worst at rim differential. Valanciunas, Drummond, Towns, Mark Williams, Bam(!), Missi, Vooch, Onyeka, Kleber, Kel'el Ware have all been worse than him. Jokic is in the 44th percentile in rim defense.

Some of those guys are even good defenders! No one is going to argue Bam or Onyeka suck at defense despite having this bad stat.

Breaking down Jokic's defense is complicated. It's silly to dismiss his weaknesses, but it's also silly to myopically focus on them and ignore his strengths and obviously acceptable results.

I think Jokic is a joke rim protector but a "good enough" defender. It's a pretty easy position to back up. He's in the 93rd percentile in deflections (he's disruptive off the ball!), 98th percentile in defensive rebounding (he can control aspects of the paint), he defends without fouling (he's disciplined), he's amongst the league leaders in steals (he has really good hands and anticipation). Defensive metrics consistently paint him as very good (96th percentile across 5 of the main defensive metrics). I totally get Jokic criticism on defense. His weaknesses are obvious, but I dont see what is gained by ignoring his obvious strengths.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

The main issue is there are only so many rim protectors who could play alongside Jokic and none of them are available. Obviously playing with guys like Murray and MPJ doesn't help, but even if they were good defenders, rim protection is still going to be an issue.

It's not that bad. You can get forwards who can help contest at the rim. All those 6'9 types which Masai seems to love, for example. Or a Kirilenko type.

Honestly, they lost in G7 to the Wolves 98-90. Defense wasn't their issue. They kept the Wolves almost 8 points below league average. Ant was awful. Conley was terrible. NAW was dreadful. The problem was that they only scored 90 points, and crapped themselves in the third. Braun, KCP and MPJ combined to shoot 2/11 from 3. Murray was 4/12, despite scoring well otherwise. They got 5 points from the bench. Not-Jokic was w/13 in the 3rd.

What they needed was more scoring help around Joker. Their D wasn't the largest problem, and wouldn't have been had they faced the Celtics, either. There are different profiles to a title contender/NBA Finalist, after all.

In general there's been a hyperfixation on Jokic's lack of rim protection that I think has lost the plot a bit.

Yes, Jokic is not a strong rim protector. He gives you next to no verticality outside his height, and he doesn't quite have the footspeed and length of someone like Marc Gasol (example of a rim protector without jumping vertical defense). It has been reinforced a lot over the past 20 years of basketball that rim protection is the spine of elite defense, and that rim protection is the most important value add a center can give you.

People focus too myopically on this weakness though, ignoring the forest (Denver has not struggled to defend well enough in the playoffs) for the trees. Jokic does a ton of things well on defense (crazy good hands, sneaky decent feet, little stunting tricks to bait people into pull ups, stouter than his reputation in man-to-man matchups, high motor, extremely proactive). The Nuggets are bad a rim protection. They aren't compensating for Jokic's weakness by adding rim protection somewhere else on the floor. MPJ is probably their best rim protector and I'm not sure he's average even as a secondary rim protector. The Nuggets have basically punted on rim defense and focused on forcing teams into crappy shot selection. They'll never produce elite defense this way, but they've proven over and over that they can play good enough defense to support their offense.

Going off what tsherk said, D hasn't been their problem. When the offense is good, they win.

Watson might be the best non big man shot blocker in the league

[tsherkin]

So to answer you question, he is literally THE WORST or among THE WORST in other areas which makes him a bad defender.

You can find some stats to support Jokic being really bad at specific things on defense, but in the broader context, he's more in the lower third of rim protectors rather than "THE WORST". Amongst centers that have played real rotation minutes this year, Jokic is the 11th worst at rim differential. Valanciunas, Drummond, Towns, Mark Williams, Bam(!), Missi, Vooch, Onyeka, Kleber, Kel'el Ware have all been worse than him. Jokic is in the 44th percentile in rim defense.

Some of those guys are even good defenders! No one is going to argue Bam or Onyeka suck at defense despite having this bad stat.

Breaking down Jokic's defense is complicated. It's silly to dismiss his weaknesses, but it's also silly to myopically focus on them and ignore his strengths and obviously acceptable results.

I think Jokic is a joke rim protector but a "good enough" defender. It's a pretty easy position to back up. He's in the 93rd percentile in deflections (he's disruptive off the ball!), 98th percentile in defensive rebounding (he can control aspects of the paint), he defends without fouling (he's disciplined), he's amongst the league leaders in steals (he has really good hands and anticipation). Defensive metrics consistently paint him as very good (96th percentile across 5 of the main defensive metrics). I totally get Jokic criticism on defense. His weaknesses are obvious, but I dont see what is gained by ignoring his obvious strengths.

We should frame/pin this post to all Jokic threads on the GB.

[DimesandKnicks]

That makes him a bad rim protector, not necessarily a bad defender. You have a very narrow view about defense can be played.
And that number cha ges quite a bit in clutch situations, when he's willing to put his chest out.

But deflections and rebounds makes your good defender. You guys are hopeless

impacting positively team defense makes you a good defender, no matter how you achieve it

Being the worst rim defender and among the worst at defending drives clearly hurts a teams defense more than getting deflections

[AleksandarN]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35959911/the-problem-nikola-jokic-game-let-just-say-offense
Per a 2023 article in March, Jokic allowed the highest FG percentage among players who defended at least 300 shots at the rim (69 percent). This year he’s at 70 percent. That is the WORST in the league…the next few are Towns, Vucevic, and Sabonis…these are his cohorts

Per that article he was 64th out of 65, only better than Thomas Bryant at defending layups and dunks.

Out of 226 players who defended at least 200 drives in 2023 at the time of the article, we ranked 222nd in efficiency (there are only like 300 players in the NBA)

So to answer you question, he is literally THE WORST or among THE WORST in other areas which makes him a bad defender.

A center who is third in deflections and this in steals becomes a below average defender when he is literally — THE WORST — at the things that you need your center to do the most

And it’s very very very easy to not foul players when you are not even trying to be a deterrent at the rim. You don’t get credit for not fouling on defense when you aren’t playing defense.

That makes him a bad rim protector, not necessarily a bad defender. You have a very narrow view about defense can be played.
And that number cha ges quite a bit in clutch situations, when he's willing to put his chest out.

But deflections and rebounds makes your good defender. You guys are hopeless

If Jokic is such a bad defender why did team USA not take advantage of him when they played Serbia. You would think having like 12 future hofers they would take advantage of that and blow Serbia out of the water. You would think that. But that wasn’t the case if you look at those games they played jokic was not a terrible defender at all.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

But deflections and rebounds makes your good defender. You guys are hopeless

impacting positively team defense makes you a good defender, no matter how you achieve it

Being the worst rim defender and among the worst at defending drives clearly hurts a teams defense more than getting deflections

probably not as clearly as you think

[Saints14]

The 2023 title run should have squashed any narrative about Jokic being a bad defender. The Nuggets were a great defensive team during that playoff run and he was a big part of it. That gives him all the benefit of the doubt for any subpar defense in the RS for me - we know he can turn the motor up when he has to

[MyTake_1]

Spoiler:

But deflections and rebounds makes your good defender. You guys are hopeless

impacting positively team defense makes you a good defender, no matter how you achieve it

Being the worst rim defender and among the worst at defending drives clearly hurts a teams defense more than getting deflections

You are an idiot, you know you are talking about the best player in the World.
Any team in the NBA would trade their best player and then some to get Jokic, making them an instant contender.
And you come around here insulting our intelligence with this drivel?
Go away troll.

Personal attacks are not allowed. Disagree with the post as strongly as you'd like but don't insult the poster. -b

[tsherkin]

But deflections and rebounds makes your good defender. You guys are hopeless

impacting positively team defense makes you a good defender, no matter how you achieve it

Being the worst rim defender and among the worst at defending drives clearly hurts a teams defense more than getting deflections

There is little to suggest that is actually true, and much to suggest that you're quite wrong.

[RRR3]

This is why people hate Jokic fans. KCP has been a really good role player for a long time, most of it without Jokic, but because he's having an off shooting year so far people will claim Jokic made him And Bruce Brown had his best statistical season WITHOUT Jokic, so...

Bruce Brown in 2023 played
- 1233 minutes with Jokic, .651 ts
- 1014 minutes without Jokic, .500 ts

You really, REALLY, fumbled this one

How did Bruce Brown manage to have a 60.4 TS% 2 seasons before he played with Jokic? Was Jokic helping him from another team?

Are you seriously dim enough to think role players doing better when the superstar taking attention is on the court means they aren't good role players? Defensive attention helps players get easier looks, it doesn't mean they aren't good at their roles. Bruce Brown has scored efficiently without Jokic, granted he was playing with other stars, but acting like Jokic is unique in drawing defensive attention enabling role players to get better shots is silly because that happens for every player who draws significant defensive attention.

[hardenASG13]

This stuff is nonsense. All superstars make their role players better and always have. Let's look at a guy often criticized on this board, Allen Iverson. What did Aaron Mckie, Eric Snow, Theo Ratliff, and George lynch do before and after playing with Iverson? They all played their best ball of their career with him.

Aaron McKie played 24 more NBA games in his career after leaving Philly, so he's an odd mention.

Eric Snow played the last few seasons of his career with Lebron, and the Cavs didn't have much need of him on-ball, so his production was lower. Ratliff was unhealthy most of his career, but routinely in DPOY conversations, had a couple shot-blocking titles without Iverson... and then his health fell apart even worse in Portland in his 30s and he scraped along until he retired. George Lynch was the same before, during and after Iverson: a weak-shooting defensive roleplayer

Not really a ton of Iverson elevating those guys. Philly's offense was routinely pretty bad. 97-06, Philly was a negative offense every season except 01 (+0.6) and 03 (+1.4). They won with defense, and the odd scoring explosion from AI. They dragged along bleh offenses and only won as their D improved. They were mostly a -4 defense under Larry Brown, and faded after 03.

As for Gordon, I see this alot here, that Jokic has elevated him because his field goal percentage has been noticeably better in Denver. Could the fact he was playing as a miscast number one option most of his time in Orlando have played a role there? Is going from the first option to the 4th option generally healthy for shooting percentages? Really magic stuff!

Yeah, his role has been a big part of it. The massive uptick in passing support on his shots is a huge factor as well, of course, and that centers around Jokic's specific abilities. The extra 1-3 FGA/g Gordon was taking in Orlando weren't really the major problem, though, it was more that him initiating his own offense on-ball wasn't ideal. The massive spike he has in shots at the rim in Denver, on the other hand, and how much less he shoots beyond 10 feet...

You can't separate Jokic out from that. It's specifically the way he impacts others, allowing them to move around and receive the ball in their best places. That is explicitly the benefit of a high-end playmaker. If AG had gone from like 17+ FGA/g down to the 8-11 FGA/g he takes, that'd be one thing, but that wasn't the case. Jokic is having an OBVIOUS impact on Gordon's efficiency. It isn't really a contestable point. The specific degree to which that is the case is a conversation piece, for sure, but denying Jokic's impact would just be non-sensical.

Disagree if you want on AI, but are you of the opinion that only Jokic elevates roles players, and that "nobody does it like him" which is was responding to? Superstars elevate role players all the time, not just Nikola.

As for Gordon, yes, his looks are much easier as a 4th option on Denver. As a result he shoots a higher percentage.